chazman

iTrader: (4)

I've noticed the my '92 Z28 convertible does not have a Wonderbar and according to the SPID has an F41 suspension vs the FE2 on all IROC-Zs, convertibles included.

If you have an IROC-Z convertible, can you check if you have a Wonderbar and if you do, verify that you also have FE2 on your SPID?

scottmoyer

The wonderbar was an IROC-Z only part. You shouldn't have it on a '92.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I asked ev305tpi to check on his '92 1LE and he does have a Wonderbar.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

My 1988 IROC-Z Vert does have a Wonderbar. So does my 1992 Firebird Convertible...

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

Here is a pic of my 91 Z28. Scott, this car has it, here is a pic. Not sure on my 92, it was not at my house when I checked this for Chazman but i'll look tomorrow.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Does your Firebird have the F41 suspension?

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

The wonderbar was without a doubt added at some point later in it's life, along with the 36/24mm sway bars. It has the FE1 suspension. My point was basically that who knows what was added to the car since it left the factory.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Was the wonderbar available all the way to 92? I was under the assumption that it was over when the IROC was done, not sure Y I've thought that either.

kairles

iTrader: (2)

I have 2 91 Z28's. One is a 305/T5 1LE, the other is a regular Z28 350/auto. Both have FE2, and neither have a wonderbar. I know the 350 car is 98% original(has stereo and borla muffler). I too thought the wonderbar was an Iroc only part.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Then, how do we explain Erik's Wonderbar?

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

The F41 package was originally a Sport Coupe only option in 1982 (sometimes with 14” wheels). In 1986, the “Sport Suspension” option was included/incorporated with all sport coupes with the RPO F41 included via default, and no longer a separately available option. -From what I recall the Sport Coupe was incorporated into the RS and I'm assuming the F41 package followed that vs. Z28 etc. (more on this later)

Says in 1988 there were only two coupe models (after the LT and Z28 were eliminated), the Sport Coupe Convertible, and the IROC-Z Convertible -with the Sport Coupe being sent to ASC.

1989 included RS Coupe, RS Coupe Convertible, IROC-Z Coupe, IROC-Z Convertible. (First year of RS after earlier regional offerings of RS option since 1987.)

1991: Z28 came back to replace IROC-Z. -So from there it was the RS vs. the Z28 packages, and from that you should only have the F41 only with the RS versions. The Z28 may have included the F41 code, but may have had something to do with it being reintroduced. Ether way, I don't think the F41 designation meant very much after it was incorporated (1986) in the same way that the 1LE lost it's meaning as did the Z28 over time. Even early on when the F41 was a separate package (with the bumper identification), it only lists special shock and stabilizers on the list.

From what I have read in other material, the wonder bar was added after finding cracks on the frame by the steering box. It is listed on page 99 of the White Book as “front frame rail reinforcement” under the IROC equipment package, and I didn't see mention of it anywhere else.

I didn't see the FE2 mentioned other than as a “suspension package.”

From here (2007) it looks like the FE2 ties into the steering box which makes sense to me.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...rpo-codes.html

So the FE2 "steering box option(?)" might include the wonder bar/front frame rail reinforcement option?

Here it only lists FE2 as: “FE2 : SUSPENSION SYSTEM, RIDE HANDLING “
http://performanceworks1.com/PDF%20F...-car-codes.pdf

Not sure if that helps but most of that was from the Whitebook and from what I recall trying to piece it together.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Okay here are the facts as I see them:

1) Wonderbars came on IROC-Zs
2) We have at least one '91 Z28 hardtop with a Wonderbar.
3) We have at least one IROC-Z convertible with a Wonderbar and I'm sure the SPID lists FE2.
4) My '92 Z28 convertible does not have a Wonderbar and the SPID lists the suspension as F41.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

The fact that there are cars with Wonderbars in 91/92 doesn't mean much to me. We have original owners of "86 GTAs" on this site.

okfoz

FE2 for the Firebird and the Camaro were different for some years. the WS6 Formula, GTA, Trans Am, got the 36/24mm sway bars where the IROC got smaller sway bars, stiffer springs and the wonderbar. Later on (91 & 92 for sure) the Camaro came in line with the Firebird and used the same suspension setup.

Either way it is not a bad thing to add,

John

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

That's what I was saying is that the RPO's do change between years. I have the feeling that it is tied more towards the steering box than the swaybars.

okfoz

Steering box for the FE2, not sure on that one, I believe it remained unchanged for the Firebirds from 87-92, possibly 1986 as well. FE2 was not the same for Firebirds and camaros...

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Yes, the FE2 is more of a theory for me at this point, and I'm no expert on originality. I guess from my viewpoint as an '85 F41 owner, the wonderbar doesn't seem to follow the RPO even with the changes in later years.

I don't know if it's worth adding, but I had come across a couple of '91 RS models with F41 on the SPID that had the 34/21mm swaybars but no wonderbar. They both looked to be original and no after-market performance parts. I didn't check for FE2 at the time though. I remember this because I still have one of the swaybar sets.

Edit: Lol, there, I updated my avatar.

okfoz

IIRC Camaros
FE1 - Std SC
F41 - Opt SC, Std Z28
FE2 - Opt Z28, Std IROC

Firebirds
FE1 - Std Base, S/E
F41 - Opt S/E, Std Trans Am
FE2 - Opt T/A, Std GTA & Formula

I have never seen a F41 Base Firebird, I know for a fact there was no F41 Firebird from 1990-1992

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Ok, so FE2 is simply a higher level and not necessarily related to the steering box?

okfoz

The FE2 did include a different ratio steering box than the base... Not sure if the F41 got the same box or not.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

That I don't know either. Then too my White Book said the '82 F41 was an Sport Coupe only option while the Z28 was also available. Makes me wonder if they meant that as an appearance package, were completely wrong, or as you were saying they are different for different years?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Well, I'm glad I created this thread, so we can do some fact finding. Seems at some point convertible Z's went from an FE2 to an F41 suspension which doesn't include the Wonderbar.

okfoz

You could get a 1991-1992 Z28 Convertible with the FE2, that is not the problem

According to Compnine (I know it is not complete, but it gives me good data to go by)
There was
F41 - 4716
FE1 - 1405
FE2 - 2134

There was 3089 Z28 (Convertibles)

We know that the Z28 was available with and without FE2,
Therefore we know there was

FE2, Z28 only - 2134
F41, Z28 - 955
F41, RS - 3761
FE1, RS only - 1405

The Wonderbar appears to have just ceased to exist after the IROC

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Two things:

1) How do we explain Erik's Wonderbar?

2) I believe FE2 on those years was bundled with the G92. Could you get a G92 on a '91-'92 convertible?

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

1) Pretty sure the Wonderbar was limited to the L98 cars and would not show up on an LB9 car. My 87 L98 parts car has one but my 87 G92 LB9 IROC & my 91 1LE LB9 Z28 (both FE2 equipped) do not.

2) Unless it's a Pontiac, you could not get a 5.7 in a convertible, therefore you will not find a wonderbar on a Z28 or IROC convertible. Those of you with the 5.7 bird convertibles, check under your noses & let us know.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I'd like to hear from some IROC-Z convertible owners on if their cars have the Wonderbar. All 16" wheel IROCs had the FE2.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Got this pic off of ebay. A super low miles '90 'vert. Looks like a Wondebar. http://www.ebay.com/itm/121700825095?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

My 1988 IROC Vert has a wonderbar with the 305 AT combo (no saying if it is stock or not, though). It also has G92 but FE2 is not listed on the invoice. From my reading, G92 was last available on a convertible in 1988. No Firebirds ever got the wonderbar from the factory, it was purely an IROC piece.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Does it have any suspension listed on the SPID?

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

I don't have the SPID, unfortunately. I just have the GM Invoice and it did not list any suspension. That, to me, leave 2 options: FE2 was standard with the options that it had or it has F41. Seems weird that it would have G92 and not have FE2.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

It would DEFINITELY have FE2, I would think.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Maybe somebody has the dealer order guide for 1988. I found the brochure here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/1988_chevro...maro_brochure/

Looking at the available options, I don't see a option for suspension packages, which is interesting. It would explain why I don't have a suspension listed on the Invoice.

okfoz

G92 was not available on the Camaro Convertible after 1988 or 1989... I think 1988 was the last year for G92 on the convertible. So it is not a G92 option. I contend it was part of the B4Z package, which would have ended in 1990...

According to the Camaro Illustration and Parts catalog the technical name for the part is "BAR" PN 14079634

The "BAR" was used as part of the FE2 suspension (only) from 1985 - 1989. There is a reference to a 1990 with the same part number, but FE2 is not mentioned.

It is in Section 1.271 for those of you who have an IPC.

THEREFORE: A 1987-1990 FE2 Convertible Camaro would have the BAR.

If you have a 1991 or 1992 with the Wonderbar, then no it was not original.

Problem solved.

John

dbrochard

iTrader: (3)

What does a F41 suspension mean for a 1991?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I have always wondered Y the "bar" wasn't put on the birds at all ???

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

I'm certain that it was not added to my 91, the previous owner who owned it since 91 was so crazy about originality that he had the battery label transferred from the original to a new gm one back in the day. My 92 however does not have it

okfoz

I am not close to my books, but I think when the Camaro got the same suspension as the Firebird had in 1986, they realized it was no longer a benefit. The Wonderbar, smaller sway bars and stiffer springs performed the same as Larger sway bars and softer springs = Less cost per car.

okfoz

At this point I would leave it there, but it is a relatively easy install, and it hides well, no one would know it was there, even if they look they might miss it. All we have to go on is the Parts Catalog, and both places I found the bar only had 85-90... Doesn't mean that early 91 model year cars might not have gotten them, there is just nothing to support that they did.

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

Yeah it's an early 91 car, my thoughts exactly

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Interesting. Thanks for looking up the information.