bjpotter

I was searching some 3rd Gen Firebird history when I came across what has to be one of the fastest cars GM ever developed. The third of 3 concepts starting with the 1988 Firefox (Destroyed), 1991 Firefox II (may still exist) and the final 3rd Gen concept The 1991 Trans Am Twin Turbo. I had never heard of it.
I saw here that T Towner almost bought it when it sold on Barrett Jackson for 47K when GM sold it's historic collection in 2009. They sold The Kammback at the same time.
I didn't find much still active information here so I began looking for other sources. What I found was amazing. This car could take on some of today's supercars.

Twin Turbo 5.7L producing 675-700 hp
ZF 6 Speed Manual Transmission
Independent Rear Suspension modified from Corvette.
Winner 1991 Manufacturers Shoot Out
Closed Coarse speed of 191 MPH
Corporate coarse 210+ and still had more but unstable.

If this car sold for 47K in 2009 what would it sell for now?

Or even where it is?

bjpotter

bjpotter

bjpotter

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

I remember hearing about the red 454 Camaro out at the Mesa Proving Grounds back in the day. A buddy of mine worked there in the late 80's & would tell me about the testing going on. From what I recall, that car was destroyed at the completion of testing.

okfoz

Is that the Firefox II?? I believe I have the runners from the original Firefox, (or ones exactly like them) they used the same car for the FF & FFII, they just upgraded the engine, and put a corvette IRS in it Along with some other things.

okfoz

AFAIK the fastest stock bodied car is still an 87 Trans Am (Banks Twin Turbo)... Does not surprise me to read that they made this one go 200 Mph. The Banks TT Trans Am went something like 287 mph...

bjpotter

The two drivers who talked about the experience said, the Twin Turbo was one of the best handling cars from GM they had ever driven.

Where any of these cars are located is the real question. The last mention I've found for the Twin Turbo is the auction. One of the Firefox's was green but was thought to be last seen painted black. But this info was from another blog and even they were fuzzy about the existence or location of either Firefox.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

I was unaware of these...thanks for posting this!

okfoz

The Firefox became the Firefox II, they just updated it with the new GFX panels, and refitted engine & components... I am not sure of the whereabouts of it... I suspect it was crushed.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

It was a Firefox derived prototype. Classic Industries used to have a webpage devoted to Pontiac's Secret Vault which had several pictures of this car and a few others.

The car made 605hp and 705lb/ft torque. I assume this is BHP and not WHP considering most testing GM did would be on an engine dyno and not a chassis dyno.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Looks to have some crazy plumbing under there.

carlos64030

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure I still have the Motor Trend magazine this article is from.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

It wasn't crushed and was actually show at an eveny just a few years ago I believe. I've also seen somewhat recent pictures of it in the GM heritage collection warehouse I believe. It's hard to miss with those wheels and no side moldings.

I always loved the FFII, mostly because of the 1992 color they used on it, Medium Quasar Blue, looks sick!

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Ditto, I had that posted along with an entire page of info on my old website back in the day.

bjpotter

I would find it funny that GM bought it back. When the Twin Turbo was sold it came from the GM Heritage Collection. T Towner tried to find out who bought it but they wouldn't tell him. They must have old pictures. I have found no reference to the car since its sale.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Very possible.

amoede

iTrader: (2)

The Twin Turbo car is in Arizona still. A collector out there has it and the Kammback car, along with a bunch of other amazing cars. The same guy ended up buying the 91 1LE Trans Am I sold years ago and I contacted him when I went out for the Barrett Jackson auction in 2011. Hell of a nice guy, but very private which is probably why you can't find any reference of the car since. He even let me drive the Twin Turbo car around the block. Simply an amazing car and I never got it out of first gear!

bjpotter

I guess I'll be keeping my eyes open when I'm in Phoenix!

How cool. Glad its in a good place.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

http://www.kugelkomponents.com/bonne...lle_300mph.php

bjpotter

Amazing video. Driving the flats is not easy. You can see him struggle when he hit some grooves in the salt. People lose control just shifting gears and the salts act more like ice at that speed.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

The intake looks like a street and performance multiport. They must have trimmed the hood, mine didn't fit. I tried it on an iroc and the firebird hood is even lower where the throttle body sits.

Anyone have more pics on this thing? Would make for an awesome build to sort of replicate.

carlos64030

iTrader: (1)

I took a trip out to Pomona, California last year and saw the 300 MPH Trans Am at the 'Grand National Roadster Car Show'.

okfoz

Looks like it is going 100mph sitting still...

I wonder what changes can be made to still classify as "stock bodied"

John

okfoz

I was on ebay, and I notided there are several twin turbo setups for our cars, I thought it looked a little funny, or should I say incomplete, but for $800-$1200 with the turbos I thought it looked interesting. Of course I imagine there would need o be quite a bit of messing around to get them to work... Anyone familiar with them?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Its really a lot less than you'd think.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

I've seen that 300mph car on display several times at the Peterson auto museum in LA.

okfoz

Are you referring to the installation of the Twin Turbos on a 3rd gen...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Sorry, no, the aero tricks are very small to get them up to 300.

And to answer the OPs question of where the blue fox is, I think a guy named Neil has it.

okfoz

I was looking at those pictures and I cannot tell if the Black rear spoiler is open on the underside or not. It looks like they have it solid from the rear, but the front there appears to be holes.

I have a mold to make a rear spoiler like that but instead of being open it is more of the whale tale design, so from the side it looks almost stock, but from the rear and looking down it actually goes to the glass of the hatch.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

IIRC its a stock 1st yr black textured wing. It has to be open to create the downforce

bjpotter

Here is a few other photo's of interest on the Banks Twin Turbo. Love the caked on salt!

bjpotter

And some earlier versions.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Notice the change in the rear wing to the best one for top speed.

bjpotter

They were playing with ground clearance too. They dropped it a couple of times. The 300 mph car was barely off the ground!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

If I remember correctly they did get some serious time in a wind tunnel.

okfoz

I wish Banks still made the Twin Turbo conversion kits for the V8 F-body...

bjpotter

They still make the twin turbo setup. Its just not specific for 3rd Gen's. It's designed to fit all chevy small blocks.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I have heard he is dusting off the kit and may re-offer it. Also heard he is restoring the thirdgen that they built.

okfoz

IIRC it was not just an engine modification, It was an entire Drivetrain, Engine, Transmission, rear axle even driveshaft. I think that I would end up in a different class at the Trans Am nationals with that kit tho... It is really really hard to take a good running car and then modify it and hope that it runs as well as it does now. If it was running like crap, and gutted it for something new that is different...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yes, it was a complete drivetrain makeover. Very cool car back then, would be nice to see that car at the Nats!!

GCrites80s

Obviously those hood vents are "NOT STOCK!"

bjpotter

If the same guy owns the Kammback for sale at Barrett Jackson, I wonder if the Twin Turbo is next?

I would love to own that car. Something tells me if it does, It won't go as cheap!

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

I remember walking the tents at Barrett Jackson in 2009 and thinking how awesome, yet sad, the Heritage Collection was being sold.

That was in January 2009.

I then recall after the "administration change" in Govt., the next Barrett Jackson called-out a "STOP SALE" on the Heritage Collection vehicles, due to the fact they were not supposed to have been sold and operated on the roads. They did not meet EPA Reqs. and might not have met safety reqs., either.

Anyways, some of the GM HC vehicles I know ended up with titles and on the road, others were just operated under Dealer Plates. The Florida sale went on after a bunch of back and forth. Anyways...

bjpotter

I remember that sale. I watched on TV. Car after amazing car. There were several mules put up for sale. Many Corvette / Special test suspension vehicles with exotic motors treatments. I do remember them saying at the time that several did not have Vin's and could not be licensed.

However, I think I read somewhere where the Twin Turbo had a factory Vin.

KMK454

How about those period correct BBS RS wheels in 17"?

Maplehawk

te car was sold by GM at Barrett-Jackson. It's in a private Firebird collection now. I was able to see it and put it in my Firehawk book.

1990IROCDon

Don
Twice retired: 21 years US Air Force, then retired from the civilian world too.
1990 IROCZ. Bought new in Sept 1989 (Currently has 7400 miles and has never seen rain.)
I plan to pass the IROC on to my son; I actually parked it for him when he was two.