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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Everyone's opinion is different... I owned this a couple years back, wasn't a Judge but it was a very clean '70 with a 400/4-speed with AC and ram air... Traded it plus cash for ("wait for it...") a C4 corvette... and it was the best thing I ever did. Granted it's a very special rare C4, but I truly despised that GTO... I would have traded it in a heartbeat for a special low mile thirdgen
Every time I drove it, it broke. It squeaked and rattled, didn't perform like it should even after spending gobs of money on just about everything, etc. sometimes there are cars you just hate and that was one of them haha...
I don't get emotionally attached to cars that much any more. That being said, I LOVE that 73 TA and my 91 Z28 - of course my 87 IROC is special as is my 71 GT-37. The rest of them....
This has been the BEST thread I have ever read about the UNIQUE club that our members belong to. When I bought my 1991 Formula, the Pontiac Excitement was in full swing. Plently of Trans Ams-GTA's-TTA etc. What caught my eye was the L98 350 option that was still the HOT engine to have and with the SLP add-ons for another 50 hp, this was the car to have. But back then, NOBODY thought of saving these models. Most of them were wrapped around trees, beat to death, modded to extreme or just used up. They came to be know as the TURD GENS. They rode hard-rattled-paint problems, BUT they had the LOOK! Even today, they pass the test of time as to what lines a muscle car should look like, as my 25 year old Bird is now an ANTIQUE. What's more is that the few really nice ones are going to continue to be preserved and taken care of, which I have seen a nice increase in their value. I go to car shows and I might be the ONLY 3rd Gen Firebird in the show, and have people come up to me and say "I remember when I had one of those" and really appreciate the work that goes into keeping these models running and looking like new. The aftermarket still has a ton of suspension-handling and performance equipment that improves the BREED. I can see keeping a nice 3rd Gen original, but mods that can improve the OVERALL performance of the car, just adds to the enjoyment of taking it out and knowing it FEELS more like a much newer performance car. The bean counters were always finding ways to cut corners and top of the line companies such as Edlebrock-Hotchkis-BORLA-SLP, did their homework to make a good car even BETTER. I APPLAUD EVERY 3RD GEN OWNER FOR KEEPING OUR HOBBY ALIVE and long live the FBody!
This has been the BEST thread I have ever read about the UNIQUE club that our members belong to. When I bought my 1991 Formula, the Pontiac Excitement was in full swing. Plently of Trans Ams-GTA's-TTA etc. What caught my eye was the L98 350 option that was still the HOT engine to have and with the SLP add-ons for another 50 hp, this was the car to have. But back then, NOBODY thought of saving these models. Most of them were wrapped around trees, beat to death, modded to extreme or just used up. They came to be know as the TURD GENS. They rode hard-rattled-paint problems, BUT they had the LOOK! Even today, they pass the test of time as to what lines a muscle car should look like, as my 25 year old Bird is now an ANTIQUE. What's more is that the few really nice ones are going to continue to be preserved and taken care of, which I have seen a nice increase in their value. I go to car shows and I might be the ONLY 3rd Gen Firebird in the show, and have people come up to me and say "I remember when I had one of those" and really appreciate the work that goes into keeping these models running and looking like
Ed. If you knew how much money I spent to preserve my 90 for 21 years you would think I'm an idiot. Every time someone poo poos a 305 it really hurts. No one loves these machines more than I do. Rock on 3rd gens!!
Every time I drove it, it broke. It squeaked and rattled, didn't perform like it should even after spending gobs of money on just about everything, etc. sometimes there are cars you just hate and that was one of them haha...
I would make that trade as well, no question. But that GTO is also a lot older than me.
Regarding squeaks and rattles, are your thirdgens completely silent? Mine's great on smooth roads. On very bumpy roads, it gets some rattles and squeaks. Also an occasional creak going up a steep entrance like a driveway or parking garage entrance as the chassis flexes... the other two original low mile original cars I've been in did the same stuff, so I never thought much of it.
Ed. If you knew how much money I spent to preserve my 90 for 21 years you would think I'm an idiot. Every time someone poo poos a 305 it really hurts. No one loves these machines more than I do. Rock on 3rd gens!!
I sold a 2008 Corvette Z06 for a handful of cash and a thirdgen with an LB9 T5. Yes, a 305. That's a tough one to explain to people. It's even tougher when I tell them the thirdgen is a more fun street car (you can actually push the car; the Z06 hit 60 MPH in 1st and was a bored car with anything short of arrest-me type driving).
Wow lots of good post here and alot pretty much right on. I think we are not dying...we are acutually growing. Sure some parts are scarce, the 80's stigma, 60's and 70's muscle bringing big bucks but look at all of us posting on this forum. How many are members here? We get new members every day, look the guy that posted this is a new member! The passion, the culture it is there and stronger than ever. No disrespect to sofa on this but I think it is just a different generation now so things are different. I never got the whole chevelle thing, it was a mid size family car that they put a huge engine in and did not handle well and really was not that fast if you look at the 0-60 and qtr, mile time.I would not give you 5 grand for one let alone 50k. I am every bit as passionate about my third gen as that guy was about his chevelle. I was born in the 60's so just not my thing. I have been told that I love my car more than anything! Not quite but scary close to that being true. Here is also why we are growing, as more of us get 3rd gens, and are passionate about them our kids will love them also. We ALL remember DAD's car...and will grow up loving dads car. My HS junior son bugs me once a week to let him take the car to school, when his freinds are over they all want to take it out. When they get older and want a cool car for themselves i am hoping it will be a 3rd gen.
Yesterday I had an interesting conversation with a previous owner of the '89 IROC-Z convertible I just bought, and still waiting for delivery. He owned it from 2004 through 2013.
This guy is a SERIOUS collector and many of his cars are 3rd gens, some of them, the best examples in the world. Some of his cars have been posted here as super low miles, primo examples. Why would he be attracted to 3rd gens, compared to say, earlier muscle cars? Well, as we know, 3rd gens are fun to drive. They have steering which...wait for it....feels good. You can't say that about all other collectible cars. They are comfortable with modern amenities like tilt column, power windows, etc. They have AC that actually blows cold. They look good and feel good to drive. And nice ones are still available for less than a fortune.
And not that I necessarily want to see this happen but, anyone even casually watching the value of late 2nd gen Trans Ams recently, can guess that 3rd gens - especially the nice ones - are the next in line to pop.
I don't see any dying on this forum. On the contrary, it can be very lively and abrasive at times. I look forward to the day when we get more cranked up about date codes on sheetmetal, distributors and the like.
Yesterday I had an interesting conversation with a previous owner of the '89 IROC-Z convertible I just bought, and still waiting for delivery. He owned it from 2004 through 2013.
This guy is a SERIOUS collector and many of his cars are 3rd gens, some of them, the best examples in the world. Some of his cars have been posted here as super low miles, primo examples. Why would he be attracted to 3rd gens, compared to say, earlier muscle cars? Well, as we know, 3rd gens are fun to drive. They have steering which...wait for it....feels good. You can't say that about all other collectible cars. They are comfortable with modern amenities like tilt column, power windows, etc. They have AC that actually blows cold. They look good and feel good to drive. And nice ones are still available for less than a fortune.
And not that I necessarily want to see this happen but, anyone even casually watching the value of late 2nd gen Trans Ams recently, can guess that 3rd gens - especially the nice ones - are the next in line to pop.
Glad to hear you found your vert you were looking for, congrats Chaz!
Besides the fact that i didn't own a 3rd gen in HS, and man did I want one, everything you described is what I love about our cars. You can love them or hate them but make no bones about it these ARE the next in line. in 67 the 1st camaro came out, in 87 i was 3 yrs removed from HS and the IROC"s were the S**t. this is 20 yrs after the 1st Camaro, 2 buddies had a 68' and 67 Camaro. We abused those cars like the $1500 beater they were! We never ever thought those POS's would be worth what they are! No one here can honestly say they saw that coming. Fast forward to now and we are approaching 25 yrs from the last of the 3rd gen's. I ask you, do you feel the same as I did in 87" or can you open your eyes and see what is taking place now?
I love older cars, the style of the 60's is bar none awesome, I have an old Riviera, it is a nice nice car, no rust, it lived in AZ from 1967-1988 and it has not seen more than 100" of rain it's entire life. The car is nice to ride in, the seats are comfortable, but honestly I do not like driving it... The newer cars especially starting in the 80's just drive so much better than they did through the early to mid 70's. Today my 07 Tahoe drives like a car did in the 90's, granted it does not handle corners, but it is easy to drive, I can use one finger to drive it down the expressway...
SO, my old 67 sits there, I start it occasionally and move it around in the barn, but really it is more of a show car any more, and I do not go to car shows... Anything vintage is like that for me, I just wouldn't want to go on a trip with it.
Nice Riviera! One of my favorite classics. I totally agree with you on the being more fun to drive thing. I really enjoy taking trips in my 3rd gen to shows and such it is fun to get out and drive.
This has been the BEST thread I have ever read about the UNIQUE club that our members belong to. When I bought my 1991 Formula, the Pontiac Excitement was in full swing. Plently of Trans Ams-GTA's-TTA etc. What caught my eye was the L98 350 option that was still the HOT engine to have and with the SLP add-ons for another 50 hp, this was the car to have. But back then, NOBODY thought of saving these models. Most of them were wrapped around trees, beat to death, modded to extreme or just used up. They came to be know as the TURD GENS. They rode hard-rattled-paint problems, BUT they had the LOOK! Even today, they pass the test of time as to what lines a muscle car should look like, as my 25 year old Bird is now an ANTIQUE. What's more is that the few really nice ones are going to continue to be preserved and taken care of, which I have seen a nice increase in their value. I go to car shows and I might be the ONLY 3rd Gen Firebird in the show, and have people come up to me and say "I remember when I had one of those" and really appreciate the work that goes into keeping these models running and looking like new. The aftermarket still has a ton of suspension-handling and performance equipment that improves the BREED. I can see keeping a nice 3rd Gen original, but mods that can improve the OVERALL performance of the car, just adds to the enjoyment of taking it out and knowing it FEELS more like a much newer performance car. The bean counters were always finding ways to cut corners and top of the line companies such as Edlebrock-Hotchkis-BORLA-SLP, did their homework to make a good car even BETTER. I APPLAUD EVERY 3RD GEN OWNER FOR KEEPING OUR HOBBY ALIVE and long live the FBody!
We are not dying, we are evolving. 3rd Gens are slowly moving from DD's to the collectable car market. The generation that these cars were built for are just now retiring, and I think will have a passion for the car of their youth.
Price comes with passion and availability. Passion for these cars is evident, I get multiple head twists per mile. Availability of good driving/collectible/original cars is still good. Prices are rising for those nice originals.
One thing I've begun to notice is the late 60's 1st gen market seems flat right now at auctions. Most look like they are sold to dealers. There are so many of them up for sale, most are not meeting the reserve and are unsold. Only 2nd and 3rd Gen's seem to be rising and selling well.
That mimics what I have stated that there are people willing to pay large $$$ for pristine and original examples of these models. The ones that are preserved are going to stay that way and as the supply of these dwindles down and as less and less show up at auction, will only drive the price up further. Just look at the asking price of some of the MINT examples that have been listed here of around $20,000. Just several years ago, you would have been laughed at loud if you asked for that.
At 55, I grew up in the classic car era. Design wise, there are some beautiful cars that were made at that time. I've had the pleasure of driving a lot of them. Many are fun to drive..... in a way.
Drive a 1st gen Vette and you will see what I mean. Great cars for the day but drive a car with manual brakes and steering in town and you will get a real workout. Most of the guys I knew who bought those 1st Camaros, Chargers and Mustangs bought them like that. All they wanted to do was go fast in a straight line. Luxury's were more weight or diverted power needlessly. Bias ply tires also limited your ability to make corners. Cars with multiple carbs were tricky to tune and hard to keep that way if you were running them hard. Same with the early mechanical fuel injection systems.
But, technology moved on. Cars got more reliable. Steering and suspensions got better. It's not surprising to me that so many people "Upgrade" older cars to make them drive better.
3rd Gens are much more fun to drive and easier to maintain. Especially the fuel injected models. For someone like me, spending less time repairing and more time enjoying the drive is important. This alone will help our market. Pristine low mile cars will be put away, but more cars will be bought as drivers and good drivers are getting harder and harder to find! Here in the midwest I have noticed a significant drop in good relatively unmolested drivers for sale on CL. Prices are a little higher for those that are available as well.
Now if the aftermarket would just make 100% accurate reproduction seat upholstery and replacement foam, the world would be a better place.
A+++++++
My upholstery guy had to make seat foam from scratch for my front seats and the new covers we had to transfer the plastic from the side bolsters onto. The back seat foam is made aftermarket but the damn stitching pattern of the back seat cover did not match at all. I have an OCD attack every time I look at it lol.
I think the value has come up some. I bought my 91 for $2000 back in 2003. That was in superb condition, next to paint fade. Still had original catback, interior, ect. Southern car, never seen salt. A paint job later I was offered 6k for it. That was back in 2004. That being said, I won't sell it. I also have a 2001 camaro ss. Probly nicer on a long drive. But it wouldn't kill me to sell it. I can find another clean 4th gen. Not as easy with a 3rd gen
I STILL have my 72 Lemans Sport Ragtop t-41 for 42 years and my
84 Z-28 HO for 10 years.
Not to mention my Impala, Buick and Triumph Bonneville for 20 yrs.
Awesome looking ride! I assume one picture shows the wing windows missing/removed for painting. I was watching old reruns of I Dream Of Jeannie the other day and they had a brand new Firebird featured in one of the scenes in the show. Hot car!
Originally Posted by florida_gators
Comparing 1st Gens to 3rd Gens is apples to oranges. Although the 1967 is almost finished, I have no plans on parting with my 1990.
I know I'm late on this post. But I was born in 1971. My favorite Camaro when I was very young was the 67. I loved the round tail lights and the rounder back fenders. When I was a teen, I traded a motorcycle for a 72. My uncle donated a 427 Vette motor and I blew the leaf springs through the trunk. But I'll always love the split front bumper!!!!! IMO. The best looking front end ever. Even had round tail lights.
Then Knight Rider came along.
Then the older "cool" guys were driving Irocs. My New love. And sorry to say. My last Camaro love. No 4th gens on up have stolen my heart. Just me.
So last December I bought myself a present. A 1990 Iroc. White T Top. It's a 5.0 car with a 5.7 in it. Auto. Red interior. Non original wheels. But solid!! Not original by any means. I've done custom door panels and other interior parts too.
Bottom line. I got a good deal on a car I've loved for years. I don't really want the value to go up, but I'd love to see the respect level go up. And I see that every time I drive it. The best compliment I've gotten so far was from a boy about 5 or 6 yrs old.
Mine is not original or perfect. But I love it and it definitely turns heads. The "value" may never be there. I don't care. It's what I value. My third gen makes me happy every time I drive it. I'm even happy when I work on it! I'm working on something I love!!!!
Again I gotta say, wow, lol! Been on this site a long time and have never had a post go this long It truly is a love affair with these cars. Can't wait to get the IROC back on the road in a couple weeks. It is just plain fun to drive and gets compliments everywhere it goes. Wether it goes up in value or not I'm pretty sure I'll keep it to pass on to my daughter and one day to one of my grandkids... Just gotta get them into the whole car thing Seems as tho we're not a dying breed after all...
I agree that these cars are evolving, it seems like they are doing something the muscle cars didn't do, evolve in a world that's so well connected and under constant watchful eye of the interweb. That's a tough thing to do.
The 3rdgen world isn't as large (yet?) as the older cars but it seems to be as much if not more passionate as they are.
I agree that these cars are evolving, it seems like they are doing something the muscle cars didn't do, evolve in a world that's so well connected and under constant watchful eye of the interweb. That's a tough thing to do.
The 3rdgen world isn't as large (yet?) as the older cars but it seems to be as much if not more passionate as they are.
The other day I was reading an article on how GM was going to celebrate the 6 generations of the Camaro and going on tour... Below the little article were some comments and one of them was "I feel sorry for the guy that has to drive the 3rd gen." It kind of struck me funny, and it actually ticked me off. In all honesty, I would feel worse for the guy having to drive the 1st or 2nd gen for any length of time... The 3rd gen is a little more comfortable (for me), the driving characteristics of the 1st gen especially suck unless they have been updated with a newer style ratio steering box... At least with the 3rd gen you could out handle any previous generation, and if it had the 350 it would perform as well as or better than 95% of all original 1st or 2nd gens.
So I do not get it, maybe because I have been drinking the kool-aid for too long and I should pour out my Jim Jones, but for me 3rd Gens are some of the most fun cars to drive IMHO.
The new car to get some hate was the 5th Gen Corvette, read an article proclaiming how the value of them will not go up for a long long time.
It has a lot to do with the Generations. Most, if not all, 20 to 30 year olds over here could care less about 60's and 70's muscle cars. As more and more people from the older generations die out, there will be less of a demand for them. People who grew up during the muscle car years were always schooled about the wonderful rat rod years and everyone desired restoring and building one, then people who grew up during the economy box years were always schooled about the wonderful muscle car years and everyone desired restoring and building one. It's sentimental value for mortals who purchase them, and illusory profit by those who sell them...
To quote Gordon Gecco of Wall Street;
"It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a Zero Sum game – somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred – from one perception to another. Like magic. This painting here? I bought it ten years ago for sixty thousand dollars. I could sell it today for six hundred. The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes, the more desperately they want it. Capitalism at its finest"...
The other day I was reading an article on how GM was going to celebrate the 6 generations of the Camaro and going on tour... Below the little article were some comments and one of them was "I feel sorry for the guy that has to drive the 3rd gen." It kind of struck me funny, and it actually ticked me off. In all honesty, I would feel worse for the guy having to drive the 1st or 2nd gen for any length of time... The 3rd gen is a little more comfortable (for me), the driving characteristics of the 1st gen especially suck unless they have been updated with a newer style ratio steering box... At least with the 3rd gen you could out handle any previous generation, and if it had the 350 it would perform as well as or better than 95% of all original 1st or 2nd gens.
So I do not get it, maybe because I have been drinking the kool-aid for too long and I should pour out my Jim Jones, but for me 3rd Gens are some of the most fun cars to drive IMHO.
The new car to get some hate was the 5th Gen Corvette, read an article proclaiming how the value of them will not go up for a long long time.
People mock what they don't understand John. Unfortunately the hairstyles of the day and the parachute pants will still occasionally get associated with the cars by some, but that's fading fast these days. Quick story....My son had told my ex wife last year that I had gotten my old IROC back and her comment was "Oh God, that thing?" She also had a snide comment when she heard I had bought others recently too - but I showed up at her house last week in my 91 Z28 and her comment was "OMG - where did you get that? That's really nice!"
The point of the story is that if that woman can look at one of these cars and no longer see the stigmas, then they will surely be gone for good!
There is also a stigma that these were cheap "Muscle Cars" in an era when having a 305 H.O. motor that put out 150 hp was really quick man. Back in 1987 when GM finally put the 350 motor into the Formula-Trans Am, it was like HOLY S**T and every person who bought one, modded the hell out of the car, beat it into the ground OR tried to see how far you could wrap one of them around a tree.
Now advance into the future (NOW) and how many survivors are left. People who now look at the few preserved models and can't believe that these are ANTIQUES that look as modern today as they did 25-30 years ago. With suspension parts still available that can bring the handling into the 21st Century, they can hold their own on any curved road and it is really nice to see people twisting their necks to get a better look at these quickly becoming rarer and rarer F-Bodies. Just my
Hell yes, PurelyPMD.. These cars are awesome, but they have a weird 80s stigma because of the people that abused them back then.. Like I said before when I told my banker I needed a wire to get a Camaro convertible and she asked, "what year?" I said, "88".. Her face and response of "oh.." Was priceless.. She obviously had a 1st gen in her mind.. Her loss.. I'll take the IROC all day, any day.. My nephews think it's a Ferrari.. That's how people with no "stigma" react.. Or they think it's a Vette..
I don't see the point in trying to overcome the jean jacket and m-ullet sporting, Coors Lite swilling, Def Leppard jamming IROC driver stereotype. Even the finest, most concours ready, rare-option thirdgen will conjure images of 80's cheese. It's an inescapable part of the car's history. These were the cool, cheap performance cars of the 80's to early 90's. If anything, nostalgia for that era will only contribute to the value of the cars. People remember IROC and Knight Rider. Not many people outside of thirdgen.org remember the Player's Challenge, the SLP Firehawk, or the TTA that paced Indy.
I actually find this to be a fun part of my car, and it's a blast getting the car spotless before parking it next to high-end cars at a local cruise-in or cars and coffee. Many of the compliments on my car have usually been followed by a silly story or memory from the 80's to 90's and an admission that the observer would love to own my car.
To further my point, just consider what was high-end from 82-92:
Lamborghini Countach
Ferrari F40
Ferrari 308
Ferrari 328
BMW M1
Porsche 959
Porsche 928
All amazing supercars, but all have a hint of that 80's excess to them.
Desirable cars go through something of a transition.
New- 2nd hand- bought by people who can't afford to maintain them- rock bottom- not many left so start increasing in value- collectable
It happens to Porsches, Lambo's, BMW M3's, Subaru's etc. The key to it being desirable is when the age- group that were influenced by that car are old enough to afford a nice one. This is invariably when they have started the upward trend. The thidgens have been through the trough and are on the up.
Having said that it will always be the top of line models that do this with the greatest effect. IROC's, GTA's, Verts, 1LE's, Firehawks and TTA's are all in that category.
ZZ42fast - you pretty much nailed the the socio-economics of the whole thing..
I definitely embrace the 80s-ness of the car.. I have a sick 80s playlist of 400 songs on my iPod that just feels right when cruising with the top down and the T-tops off.. I feel like those guys I'd see driving 50s cars listening to 50s music..
When you tell people about the car it's funny how their reaction is almost disappointed that you're telling them about an 80s car..
When they see the car in person they are blown away because it's not really as dated and crappy as the image in their head..
Even back in the day I'd get props for keeping my IROC showroom and I'd have friends say, "he drives an IROC, but you gotta see it, it's a really nice one".. Because there were so many that weren't.. It had to be explained.. Ha ha
I agree that these cars are evolving, it seems like they are doing something the muscle cars didn't do, evolve in a world that's so well connected and under constant watchful eye of the interweb. That's a tough thing to do.
That's true. You don't need the internet to build Old Muscle at all. Just some catalogs and trips to your local speed shop, auto parts store, body man and autobody supply. Almost anyone can do it. Now if you want to go Pro Touring with one you're going to have to use the internet for some things or your car will be unsorted. To me, unsorted is the biggest problem with Pro Touring cars since a lot of people just throw parts at them and make them worse.
On the other hand, with 3rd Gens, there's too much obscure stuff going on. If you don't seek help from the internet for at least a few things and parts you're going to wind up with something that looks like the infamous "trailer court special". The mainstream speed industry is still just too centered around Old Muscle, trying to make '70s and '80s G-bodies and Novas into Old Muscle with steering wheels, shifters and bigger carbs, tube-frame drag cars and oval to serve the 3rd genners properly.
That's true. You don't need the internet to build Old Muscle at all. Just some catalogs and trips to your local speed shop, auto parts store, body man and autobody supply. Almost anyone can do it. Now if you want to go Pro Touring with one you're going to have to use the internet for some things or your car will be unsorted. To me, unsorted is the biggest problem with Pro Touring cars since a lot of people just throw parts at them and make them worse.
On the other hand, with 3rd Gens, there's too much obscure stuff going on. If you don't seek help from the internet for at least a few things and parts you're going to wind up with something that looks like the infamous "trailer court special". The mainstream speed industry is still just too centered around Old Muscle, trying to make '70s and '80s G-bodies and Novas into Old Muscle with steering wheels, shifters and bigger carbs, tube-frame drag cars and oval to serve the 3rd genners properly.
Dude, your profile pic is awesome! I am going to look for one of my 80's ****** pics. you just brought back some mad memories. I was just at my barber this weekend and I purposely told him not to cut the length in the back. I told him I liked the way I could see my hair blowing from the wind of the vert, brought me back to the day. I might sport the ****** for a week or so! Blast VH Fair Warning as I cruise the beach with the top down. I for one am embracing the stigma as I never saw it as bad. It was just what was going down at the time....I missed the disco thing. My point is that we should all embrace what these cars are, (with all their shortcomings), as they defined the 80's to early 90's era of automobiles. What other car can you say this about? I DD mine, have done some suspension mods and got the engine running as good if not better than when it was new. I just told a friend that at this point in time could not see myself driving anything else...These cars are fun! Isn't that what the 80's was all about!
Unfortunately, most people bat an eye to anything with less than 300 horsepower. I think that's why third-gens aren't as popular. Third-gens will be the next wave of muscle cars to appreciate.
My point is that we should all embrace what these cars are, (with all their shortcomings), as they defined the 80's to early 90's era of automobiles. What other car can you say this about? I DD mine, have done some suspension mods and got the engine running as good if not better than when it was new. I just told a friend that at this point in time could not see myself driving anything else...These cars are fun! Isn't that what the 80's was all about!
Dude, that is exactly what the 80s and these cars are about.
They came into being during the "We build excitement!" times.
When TV series were still about optimism.
And right now there's an increase in everything retro, be it the desire for old video game consoles, retrowave music or remakes of classic movies.
People just miss the good and easy fun of the 80s, even those who weren't around at that time.
Remember: Great punchlines, arcades, easy to mod cars, simple electronics yet creating awesome results...
I, too, have yet to find another car that gives me a similar feeling to driving an f-body.
I need my gauges, not idiot lights. Rattles and squeaks to defeat, audible signs for something going wrong and an underlying vibration for a pulse, to feel if all is right.
And BTT:
The aftermarket for our cars has been consolidating for a while.
Over are the times of quick and easy replacement parts, like $7 window sweeps or IAC valves.
Let's just hope this is because the junk has been driven out of business.
There is much hope though, when I see how many of us are creating replacement stuff for our cars, especially due to the advent of affordable 3D printing.
Unfortunately, most people bat an eye to anything with less than 300 horsepower. I think that's why third-gens aren't as popular. Third-gens will be the next wave of muscle cars to appreciate.
Problem being that the vast Majority of the 60's cars with reported 300+HP did not have 300+ HP either. 99% of all V8 1st gen Camaros have been modified to have more HP than original. The Muscle Car era of high HP was respectable, and definitely better than the mid 70's thru the mid 80's HP was dismal. But the performance numbers from magazines tell all, they really were not much faster than Top 3rd gens, if not slower... Just like the 250HP TTA that blows the doors off of a 350 HP 1964 GTO.. the GTO honestly probably has around 225-250HP by today's rating system. My 1967 Buick Riviera that was originally rated at 360HP and now supposedly has 430HP was not a whole lot faster than my Mothers 1994 Buick Roadmaster with 260HP LT1
Remember at one time GM, Ford Chrysler made up their own HP ratings, but now they have a standard to go by.
Problem being that the vast Majority of the 60's cars with reported 300+HP did not have 300+ HP either. 99% of all V8 1st gen Camaros have been modified to have more HP than original. The Muscle Car era of high HP was respectable, and definitely better than the mid 70's thru the mid 80's HP was dismal. But the performance numbers from magazines tell all, they really were not much faster than Top 3rd gens, if not slower... Just like the 250HP TTA that blows the doors off of a 350 HP 1964 GTO.. the GTO honestly probably has around 225-250HP by today's rating system. My 1967 Buick Riviera that was originally rated at 360HP and now supposedly has 430HP was not a whole lot faster than my Mothers 1994 Buick Roadmaster with 260HP LT1
Remember at one time GM, Ford Chrysler made up their own HP ratings, but now they have a standard to go by.
I am glad you brought this up. Nowadays the majority likes to look past this factoid, and just think that because you put a huge engine in a car that it translates to it being fast. The TTA will probably beat a bunch of the so called muscle cars. But because it is not list @ over 300hp we just assume it is slow. Let's not make that assumption.
1967 cammaro ss 0-60 7.9 sec 15.2 qtr
1970 chevelle ss 454 0-60 5.3 sec. 13.6 qtr. By some this is the ultimate MC
1990 IROC TPI 0-60 5.7 sec. 14.2 qtr
89 ta anniversary ed. 0-60 5.o sec 14.0 qtr.
As you can clearly see the 3rd gen will blow the doors off the comparible 1st gen, and with a few minor mods will take care of that chevelle also (the TA stock beats it in the 0-60 mark)
Some how the HP ratings can't be right because by all common sense a 400 HP 454 should toy with our measley 245 hp. I am not sure how or when that we lost site of this. I always thought the 3rd gens had some performance...the numbers just say no.
So when someone says it's only 245 HP and it is a sled, you know they are not educated in the car world.
Very true. In the 60s they inflated the HP ratings and in the 80s-90s they sometimes under-rated them IMO. I can assure you the 89 TTA made a lil more than the advertised 250 or so HP they claimed. I can assure you a 245 HP L98 Z28 had every bit of that and then some too.
04-29-2016, 02:32 PM
When I bought my 1991 Formula, the Pontiac Excitement was in full swing. Plently of Trans Ams-GTA's-TTA etc. What caught my eye was the L98 350 option that was still the HOT engine to have and with the SLP add-ons for another 50 hp, this was the car to have. But back then, NOBODY thought of saving these models. Most of them were wrapped around trees, beat to death, modded to extreme or just used up. They came to be know as the TURD GENS. They rode hard-rattled-paint problems, BUT they had the LOOK! Even today, they pass the test of time as to what lines a muscle car should look like, as my 25 year old Bird is now an ANTIQUE. What's more is that the few really nice ones are going to continue to be preserved and taken care of, which I have seen a nice increase in their value. I go to car shows and I might be the ONLY 3rd Gen Firebird in the show, and have people come up to me and say "I remember when I had one of those" and really appreciate the work that goes into keeping these models running and looking like new. The aftermarket still has a ton of suspension-handling and performance equipment that improves the BREED. I can see keeping a nice 3rd Gen original, but mods that can improve the OVERALL performance of the car, just adds to the enjoyment of taking it out and knowing it FEELS more like a much newer performance car. The bean counters were always finding ways to cut corners and top of the line companies such as Edlebrock-Hotchkis-BORLA-SLP, did their homework to make a good car even BETTER. I APPLAUD EVERY 3RD GEN OWNER FOR KEEPING OUR HOBBY ALIVE and long live the FBody!
Nice Jim. 
