kymmee

Car was on display (and for sale) at the Trans Am Nationals. Never saw the owner around or the hood up to take an engine shot. We were there with the MSE on Fri, Sat and Sunday. Also including a link to photobucket if you are interested in seeing the other pictures I took.








http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/ho...?sort=3&page=1

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Think it has been listed on here and Evil-pay.
Nice car but a lil pricey for me

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Good looking ride, but man third-gen people put too much emphasis on the 1LE package imo.

Bit expensive but hey, under 10k and all original it's hard to argue. It's just about finding the right buyer.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

There's actually a Motortrend article from 1990 in which they discuss how this guy found the 1LE code and ordered a bunch of them and was trying to make it as big a deal as some of the classic codes of the muscle car era. I guess he succeeded because it's about the most hyped brake package that ever was.

I love the look of this car, just like the one in my driveway but still in pristine condition. Too bad it's a 1LE.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Great car but his numbers are off - only 19 L98 Formulas and 9 of them were B4U Hawks.

Rare is rare - the 1LE cars were the first cars to come out of GM built specifically for the race track in decades!

Thanks for the pics Kim, wish I was there!

B4C5.7

iTrader: (2)

Really clean car, been for sale for a while I believe. A rare piece to be sure.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Very pretty!

An thanks for the pics from the Nats. Looks like it was another great show. Need to make it down there some day.

KMK454

That car is beautiful and rare. I love it.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Except that's not at all why 1LE is hyped. It's not even hyped because of the upgraded brakes. It's hyped as being a "Performance Package" full of options that weren't available otherwise, when in truth a G92 or R6P car came with virtually identical performance in all areas but repeat braking. The myth heavily implies that if a thirdgen doesn't have 1LE it's a POS. 90% of the time when it's mentioned, the author spouts a bunch of inaccurate crapola (like the 18 gallon special fuel tank on the For Sale flyer pictured above). The myth implies or outright claims 1LEs are faster, which has never really been documented or proven.

There is a seed of truth, the why and how, the limited production, and that GM wasnt especially interested in advertising or selling a million of them, but all the written poppycock in glamorous magazine articles is always acutely focused on the idea 1LEs are something so momentous, when the truth is they're a nearly insignificant footnote.

LiquidBlue

Kymmee! Thanks for the post! Wow, pretty unusual color for that 1LE to boot. Guess that's where they get to tack on the extra $10k !

Looks like great fun over there from your photobuckets pics. Lots of Red, White and Black 3rd Gens. How about some other colors!!

Time2Fly

Love the color of that car. Very nice.

Was that necessary in this thread? I mean, the only thing I get out of your rant is; "I don't own a 1LE, therefor they are not special". Really, that's how you come across here.

I have never understood the mentality of you and the like. What's more, one of our own mods on this very board is even worse - absolutely despises 1LE cars. There is no other model of car (that I know of) in which self claimed "enthusiasts" and "collectors" deliberately try to lower the value of their own investment by repeatedly bashing one incredibly rare option. I just hope the other guys that post info about their 1LE cars and the history behind those cars continue to do so because it's great reading. I don't think it can do anything but help the value of all our cars.

LiquidBlue

Yeah, I see too much bashing about our 3rd gens on this site. Its a shame. There is sufficient bashing around here because someone doesn't have a "rare" car or certain options as well.

I also hang out on Corvette forum as well, and never see this sort of behavior. At least in the section that pertains to me. Everyone over there seems to appreciate one another cars, regardless of how common or how rare they are. We should all strive to be more like them. It makes it a whole lot more fun!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Well, considering the disproportionate attention paid to 1LE's and the misinformation surrounding them (even the owner of the car this thread is about thinks his car has an 18 gallon fuel tank ), it's a valid discussion on the topic. Seeing as how this is a forum for discussion...

When you have been reading the same repeated hype about 1LE's, in a vastly disproportionate quantity of articles, for 20 years, you might get a bit sick of it too.

You're reading an awful lot of subtext into my comments. I'm not bashing the 1LE at all. Obviously I like the car, like I said I've got a 91 Firebird the same color sitting in my driveway. I'm not telling anyone they can't post about their car, or a car they saw someplace. I simply dislike that auto journalists can't seem to write about any Thirdgen unless it's a 1LE. I never said anything about the value of anything.

As rare as it may be, there's a piece about another green 91 Formula 1LE L98/auto in the Sept 2003 High Performance Pontiac. That car has gray interior, and power windows, along with a few visible modifications, otherwise it could be mistaken for the same car.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

I don't think that's the implication at all - I think it's just that the 1LE is the ultimate example of the breed.

As for the myth of them being faster, I personally don't believe it's a myth at all and you are welcome to come and test it for yourself. My 1990 60k mile LB9/MK6 equipped Formula is noticeably different driving than my 91 130k mile Formula 1LE and my 91 60k mile 1LE Z28. All are identical drive lines and none have been rebuilt. The two 1LE's pull significantly harder and longer than the standard Formula.

kymmee

At this particular show, this car was not drawing a big crowd. Everytime I passed by, it did not garnish much attention. The TA Nats is all about bling, so the 1 LE sat quietly. Only real 3rd gen enthusiasts would even realize the rarity. The cars with engine swaps, chrome, Bandit cars, custom parts, etc get lots of looks.

As for the asking price, it was a bit high and the car, upon close inspection, was not detailed at all. I did like the color though.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

The name on the registration form there is not of the owner. Doug works with the owner and brought the car to the show for him. I know Doug well, saw him out in Norwalk a few weeks ago - he fries a mean chicken!

KMK454

Bottom line: We need to stop undermining ourselves and instead be ambassadors for these cars.

GM thought 1LE was significant enough to relaunch it for gen 5 and 6. The auction market seems to think 1LE is significant, too.

I've purposely been bringing my 91 B4C to cars and coffee events where you'd probably think twice about bringing even the nicest thirdgen, and you know what? People actually like these cars and respond well to them.

KMK454

This was directed at me, right?

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Nah, it was directed at Drew. I think you already know they pull hard.

But I've already told you - you're welcome any time.

LiquidBlue

By definition all of your cars should drive differently, they are all different. By definition a 1LE should be faster, because it is "typically" lighter than other similarly equipped cars. The Formula gets the nod, because it does not have the extra weight of ground effects and has the lower coefficient of drag. A 91 Formy in particular, loses the weight of the rear spoiler that the 90 possess. Same goes with track times, the bigger brakes, the upgrades to the suspensions should (shocks, rear control arm bushings from what I understand) should help it zip thru the track a little quicker. Although the shock, bushing factors should long be gone now, I know my 64K mile factory shocks were zonked simply from being in storage for 23 years.

But.... But... if you take two identical formy's out of the factory, and one has the 1LE option, while the other was ordered with same 1LE parts - less shocks of course, (I'm guessing that is the only way you could have got them is thru the 1LE package) Then you're gonna have 2 cars that run the 1/4 pretty darn close. That blazing sub 14 second speed that the cars of the early 90's gave us!

I forgot to add, the real FACTORY speed demon's from these cars (technically) are the SLP factory modded cars.

B4C5.7

iTrader: (2)

Been out for several days, but Liquid, Time, Purely, and KMK have it right in my opinion. I never diss anyone's car, ck my posts. I also do not say my car is nicer, better, faster, rarer than any other car on the board. It is about respect. But i am weary of the continual negativity about the 1LE...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I suppose it depends on your point of view. You can view any criticism of the 1LE propaganda as continual negativity, or you can view the non-stop misrepresentation of "facts" as annoying hype. No one is really bashing the 1LE. Some of us are just sick of hearing about how great 1LE's are, when it really boils down to front brakes vs. air conditioning.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

This pretty much sums it up. Rarity does not equate to value, never has. Demand + rarity = value.

A few people here staunchly defending 1LE like it's something really special make me wonder if they're just self-serving trying to keep the value up.

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

I was amazed at the attention my 91 1LE got at a cruise night event recently. Like said above, it was significant enough that GM has relaunched that option code. I plan to bring my 92 out to the Herb Chambers Cars and Coffee next week myself.

KMK454

Do it! Doesn't even need to be a special edition - my car looks like an RS (as in "Really Slow" base model for 1991) and I rarely bother to explain B4C, even to Camaro fans. The car still draws attention.

bjpotter

I think 1LE's and B4C's getting attention and a premium is a good thing no matter if they are faster or not. Special code cars always are more valuable. Even if the only difference is brakes. The truth is many classic cars are full of examples of 1 option being the difference in $1000's of dollars in value. Even if it made no difference performance! In fact, they, Firehawks, GTA's and others bring attention to Third Gen's and raise the value of them all! Benefiting all of our cars.

I would never buy one myself primarily because I would waste it. I only want a driver. Of which I have been lucky enough to have driven over 300,000 glorious miles between my first Camaro RS and my current Formula. I really loved the upgrade to 4 wheel disc brakes the Formula brought. Would I ever consider upgrading my current Formula with 1LE brakes, you bet! I know it would not increase the value much, but that's why special code cars are special. The Code!