evilstuie

Hi Guys,

I've just been lucky enough to acquire the Right-Hand Drive dash mould for a 1998 TransAM from a conversion joint here in Australia, which means I can do something very rare here and install a 4thgen dash in my 85 TransAM

At first I was ging to be lazy and just snad back the mould and install it as is with a coating of Plastidip, but it doesn't quite fit because of the overlap.

The other reason is that from what I've seen there are always a few gaps in the thirdgen conversions, and I though this would be a good time to add a bit extra to the dash to get the windscreen part flush.

Now I have the mould which is great, but I have never fibreglassed anything from a mould before, and have limited experience in fibreglassing in general, but is anyone able to give me a quick lesson?

From my understanding, I just need to apply something to the mould so the fibreglass doesn't stick, apply the resin to the mould, lay the fibreglass matting onto it, apply more resin to the matting, roll it down, and repeat until I get the strength I want, let it set and take it out of the mould.

Am I missing anything (other than specifics)?

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

First you want to make sure the mould is in good condition. You want the surface to be smooth and shiny like a polished car. If the mould has been used a lot, it may be worn and need wet sanding or polishing. Any defects should be filled with the same material the mould is made from. It's probably polyester.
If the mould is well made I would recommend VACCUM bagging, makes for a much better product with no voids or weak spots . For a release agent you can use wax (mould parting wax is recommended) or a semi Permanant release agent like FreKote. If you are just making one ,go with the wax, but wax it at least three times, no less .
Is there a second mould for the underside? The usual way to make something like this is to mould both side seperately and then glue together so it has the proper shape top and bottom.
Most fiberglass parts are made from polyester resin because it's cheaper and less temperature critical. I prefer epoxy resin. Stronger and lighter and can be cured at higher temps to resist deformation when the part is exposed to heat later. I foresee this being a big problem with a dash made from PE resin.
I can give you further detailed instructions once I know exactly what you are working with. Any pics of the mould?

evilstuie

Thanks stealth.

I'll upload some pics tonight, but the mould is brand new, hasn't been used yet, nice and shiny new plastic on the inside.

I has a 2 or 3 piece setup with flanged tabs to screw/bolt the mould parts together for the passenger side air bag spot and I think another spot, I'll have to check.

I want to make some slight mods to the dash for the center touch screen and probably just smooth over the passenger air bag bit, but I think it's probably better to do that to the dash and not the mould, yeah?

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

I had to take a look at some pics of a 4th gen dash again, forgot how different they were from third gen. Looks like it is easier to make from a mould.
Do you know if this mould was made for composites or plastic injection?
I'm curious to see it, please post pics.
If you are planning on painting or covering the finished dash, it's definitely easier to modify the product after it comes out of the mould. You can add and remove as much as you want as long as the visual evidence is covered in the end. If you were going for a bare carbon or glass finish, mould would have to be modified.
If you haven't done this before, do some experimenting with your chosen materials before you use the mould. Practice building a simple shape like a bowl , then you can use it as a mould and test your release agent. This way you can get the hang of mixing ratios, glass to resin ratios and layup.
Keep in mind PE resin gives off lots of smelly fumes, epoxy doesn't.
Check out fiberglast.com you tube channel for some good videos.

evilstuie

Here's the mould images:

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

Ok, looks like a PE mould as expected.
It a complicated shape with some deep drafts, going to be tough to seperate.
The finish is going to need to be a lot smoother for good release. I would definitely use a semi perm release like Freekote and it will take some attention to application to make sure you get it into the corners well.
I would also block off all the openings so you don't get "wrap around " with the resin dripping g through and anchoring to the mould.
It could be laid up by hand but going to take a slow resin to give you time to work the glass into the corners. You could also vacuum bag it with an envelope bag but it will be a big bag and you will have to round all the corners to prevent puncture.
It's going to be a difficult mould, lots of drafts and large size. Potential for lots of voids and difficult release. Practice on a simpler mould first.

evilstuie

Oh ok, sounds ominous.
What do you think about trying to convert the mould to use as the dash, just grinding the joining tabs off, fibreglassing the pieces together, sanding back and finishing as is?

Would that be a better option?

I did have the idea of selling the mould so someone else could have the setup, but in all honesty I'd rather be the only one in Australia with a fourth gen dash in a thirdgen LOL

LX_SS

You know the mould is used on the inside of that one, not the outside. That in mind, if you were to use the mould as a dash, it would be oversized. None of the trim pieces would fit well and you would have gaps all over.

You would be better off speaking to a company who does dash work/custom repairs possibly and maybe getting them to do the work for you using your mould. Your on the other side of the country but a place like alfa fibreglass, who specialized in making moulds and fibreglass replacement car panels, i.e. doors, guards etc....

To cut up that mould would be a shame to waste it as such.

The other option is speak to a company like saint rf golbin (big fibreglass mob) that could help you out with release agents, which resin to use, the grade of strand matting etc..

But as was said by stealtht/a, you would best of to vacuum bag it and that would be a big bag that could easily be prone to punctures etc.. but i'm guessing it would depend on the type of plastic you used with the bag. This would also require a vacuum pump.
You dont have to do a vacuum bag, but not doing so greatly increases the chances of lifting / voids especially in corner sections etc... where there is tight curves. Flat sections generally are fine.

Your last comment about being unique, well you'd be unique even if there is a couple of others floating around with the dash. The idea of keeping it all to yourself and not sharing or helping with others will only get the same response back if you ask others for assistance etc... Just saying what goes around comes around.

evilstuie

Yeah true, but isn't the fourth gen dash an inch or so shorter on both sides anyway when fitted to a thirdgen?

What do you think about using something like plastidip to spray the inside of the mould with to stop it from sticking?
Still use the release agent, but would a light coat of plastidip help in the case of resin leaking through and sticking?

There's not that many 3rd gens in Australia, and I'm sure there'd be very few who'd want to modify their dashes, so it's not about not sharing, it's more so me being lazy and impatient to use the mould as the dash.

LX_SS

I hear you can use canubra wax or however you spell it, but still best to speak to a fibreglass supplier in getting the correct release agent as that will be your best bet.

Its kind of like welding, to get the perfect weld, you need your setting spot on and that can be the difference between a great weld and an awful weld with no difference in technique.

I still think you'd have issues using the mould as a dash, the trim pieces im talking about are the center stereo area / instrument cluster. Its no so much about the left/right clearance, my vy dash has about 3 inches on the left and 2 inches on the right gaps, both of which will be sorted with door panels and other sections, i.e. the door vents if i use that route for the air con/heater system. Mind you those gaps that i have are determined by the center console lining the dash up centrally.

The other option which wouldn't hurt is just to try a section for yourself. Grab some materials, just lay it by hand and get some experience with it. I would be making some inquiries with different fibreglass specialists that use moulds to do the work for you, might cost you 1k or something of that nature but it would be the better option in my opinion.

You might find if you were able to produce them easily enough you could sell them for the right price, but this takes time getting the technique downpat.

I know if i had a choice going back years ago, i would have jumped at a 4th gen dash rather than the vy setup for ease even if it took me 6 months + of work getting the dash just right. As that option wasn't available i went with the vy route, but that expanded into a whole different kettle of fish which in the end will work out better but involved alot more time, patience and engineering skills. To sum it up, there simply isn't a single part left on my car than isn't modified in some way shape or form, from the front of the car, to the door insides to the rear. The window regulators have even been modified.

Stick with it, make the right connections and you will get a nice end result, dont be afraid to try it yourself, find the issues and how to resolve them if thats the cost effective route vs sub contracting it to a fibreglass specialist.

evilstuie

Yeah I started with the VY route as well and got stopped at the dash gauge CANBUS issue. Had the mounting brackets and everything all done.

Then tried making a steel frame to bolt everything to and fibreglass over the top, then found this mould which matches the gauge cluster I have from the 97LT1 birds.

I'll give the fibreglass route a go, worst case scenario I screw up the inside of the mould and then convert the mould to the dash, so I guess there's no error that cant be fixed.

evilstuie

That was where my VY dash got to

LX_SS

Canbus was only an issue for VZ, which is why you cant use VZ in VY and vice versa.

I went a bit further and used the firewall from the vy to mount and house everything, as part of the firewall mounts the steering column and the air/heater system. Was simply an easier choice to get correct looking demister up front without looking odd.

Its quite interesting the difference between a VY dash fitted then the firewall change. Did you notice with the original steering column that things like getting the keys in or the indicator stalk were a problem with the dash ???
One thing i didn't like when i originally had my dash the same as your was the amount of wiring to be done, it was phenomenal. Now i just use the entire VY Chassis/engine harness for the entirety of my car. No more pontiac wiring.


Get a release agent and you shouldn't have an issue with the fibreglass seperating from the mould. Give you an idea, Alfa fibreglass charge $250 per front guard and $500 per Door to make, thats them having their own moulds as well. All finished in Gelcoat. So if you did a deal possibly with a mob like such. Give them the mould and get a great final product for 1/2 price possibly. See how much they would charge without handing over the mould for them to keep, but i still think before you use the mould as a dash, investigate this option. Least amount of work for you and get a great product in the end can only be win win.

evilstuie

Sounds good, I'll do the ring around today.

Where in Oz are you?

LX_SS

I'm in Vic, so its quite a bit away.
I'm presuming you've seen my thread in the fab section covering the VY.

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

As said above, you can't really use that mould for a dash.
I wouldn't reccommend using wax as a release agent on that mould, the deep corners will be difficult to get a good wax coat and you will probably get bonding. Parting wax works best on flatter surfaces.
If you want to try using it, practice glassing random shapes or a basic mould.
Don't expect too much at first, composite layup takes practice.
When I made my first windsurfer back in the 80s I asked an experienced shaper for advice . He said "yes, do it, it will be fun and you'll learn a lot, but your first board will be a coffee table". It did make a great coffee table��

evilstuie

Well, I don't have faith in my ability to make a dash from the mould given I've never done anything like it before and I'm screwed if I ruin the mould, so with some backwards logic, I've decided to use the mould as the dash.

I've started sanding it down and with the wonderful technology of plastidip I think it can look good when it's done.


The center stereo/air controls will be replaced with a 10" touch screen for the pc, so I'll make my own bracket/fascia for that, and I just need to find a gauge surround and light switch so install. I'll have to chop and fibreglass it to mirror the switch on the right hand side, but I think that should be easy enough.

The Airbag hold, I'm thinking of putting a trickle charge solar panel in there, and the glove box will have a drop down keyboard for the passenger to fiddle with.

And lastly, to overcome the mould joining tabs, I'm going to lay some thin foam the same height as the lip on each side, and then glue a dash mat/cover over the top to hide that, which would be hidden by one anyway.

The it's just a matter of installing some eyeball vents in the holes, and plasti-dipping the lot in matte black for the vinyl effect.

What do you think?

LX_SS

Do you have a cluster to test out fitment ?

I don't think you will get the finish you want from plasti-dip, plus if it ever scratches it will be a nightmare.

I also don't think you will get the fitment from using the mould since its oversized on the outer. However i would like to be proven wrong.

evilstuie

Yeah ,I've got the cluster, fits nicely.
I've done the same thing with plastidip on the roofliner and it came out fantastic.
Also the plastidip stuff is pretty durable if you apply it right, and it'll be more than enough for the dash I think, plus if it does scratch another quick coat and it's fixed.

I know what you mean about the fitment, I think I was very lucky that the gauge cluster fit like it did, but luckily the rest of the dash pieces are going to be substituted or made from scratch to fit anyway, like the radio section and vents etc.
The extra meat on the outside should also help fill the gap from the 3rd-4th gen dash width differences.

It's a dice roll anyway as to how it will turn out. I'm not looking for a spectacular finish to the whole car, I'm learning as I go anyway, and I'm rushing it to be able to drive it again, but interior is something that I can take out in a day and re-do later if needs be.

LX_SS

Sounds like you got a plan sorted, hope it works out well. Make sure to post pics when your done/doing it.

evilstuie

Plan is a strong word to use...

mental scribbling is probably a better description of it LOL

Most of my eggs are in the "Plastidip" basket, as I'm going to do all interior panels with matte black, and maybe add a red stripe if I'm feeling creative/confident.
Carpet/upholstery die/paint for the material bits.

MY hope is the 406SBC x24 EFI motor and black paint job with KITT scanner should be enough of a distraction from any bits of the car that are lacking LOL