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Old 06-02-2009, 09:26 PM   #101
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

This is the package i bought in the attached link with the HP Tuner's book. They have the basic course and advanced coming out... it looks like it would be pretty good instruction, i'll let you know

http://www.thetuningschool.com/courses.html
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:43 PM   #102
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan91z28 View Post
This is the package i bought in the attached link with the HP Tuner's book. They have the basic course and advanced coming out... it looks like it would be pretty good instruction, i'll let you know

http://www.thetuningschool.com/courses.html
must be nice to be able to dumb almost 2 grand on tuning, sounds like you're about to have it buttoned up. congrats!
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:03 AM   #103
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Congrats on the startup, I can't wait to get there myself! (I think I'm finally just about able to see it in the distance...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan91z28
a couple of things i learned-
- Tach interface from GMPP ECM drives tach well but is in 4 cyl mode so is only showing 1/2 speed on gauge, HP Tuner i believe can set this right
Lots of people just move the switch on their tach over to 4-cylinder mode - lots easier than messing with tuning...

Again, congrats - you've made some kick-@$$ progress, & honestly, I'm a bit jealous...
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:17 PM   #104
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

This past weekend made quite a bit of progress getting the engine to idle well.

The issue turned out to be the 3rd gen tpi air intake is just too restrictive, once we opened that up the LS3 idled great.

We originally had a 3 1/2" aluminum pipe connecting from the throttle body to the standard TPI air filter box with some K&N filters. With hp tunners we could see the engine was trying to radically adjust its trim values at idle. While this could be adjusted by retunning the minimum throttle body open, etc this didn't make sense as clearly we were starving this engine

Ended up getting a K&N 4" elbow and connecting it to a 4" pipe going to a big K&N cone filter. I will have to get some pictures up but essentially we ended up moving the battery over to the drivers front corner and running this assembly to the passenger corner. Gives a lot more air inlet area as well as allowing a better flow entering to the throttle body. As soon as we fired up the engine with this configuration it idled well and disconnecting the battery to allow it to dump its learned trim values from the previous config and revert back to the original settings made it run very stable.

The hp tuners software looks pretty good. Needed to get the latest beta test version 2.23 to be able to read the GMPP crate engine ECM.

Potentially could take the first drive this weekend if we get lucky
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Old 06-10-2009, 12:15 AM   #105
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Yeah those TPI air intakes are crap on a stick on a stock engine its a weak link so... I'm running the same style 4" elbow to 4"straight couple-3.5"maf-in/out-then back to 4" straight and HUGE K&N

No idle or power issues here
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:11 PM   #106
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

I need to get my other computer back up so i can post up some pics, but anyways we made some good progress this weekend.

First off, got the V2.23 of HP Tuners and it now can read and write the ECM file for the GMPP LS3 Crate Controller. For now until i get to the point of doing a little driving i am just working to get the gauges straight so after reading the original stock file and saving it, i adjusted the tach output driver and got the tach to read correctly.

The ECM has a period high and low setting for the tach output. mine was programmed stock both at 15. The way this works is the number of teeth on your reluctance wheel / cylinder mode = ECM value... so on the LS3 58 / 4 ~= 15 which drives the tach in 4 cylinder output mode... wanting it to be 8 cylinder 58 / 8 ~= 7, i reprogramed both to 7 and tach is reading good. The real value wants to be 7.25 so right now the tach reads a little high compared to actual but for a guage is fine.

For you guys who have LS1 with 24 tooth, you would want your setting to be 3, 24 / 8 = 3.

Also finished mounting up the K&N filter giving it a good solid tie point to the frame.

Next we worked on mounting the brake line proportioning valve. Using a Baer valve for this we broke the brake line right below the fuel filter area and mounted it there for easy adjustment. We are still waiting on the rear axle stainless lines i have on order from Fine Lines, hopefully this week.

We are using the Tick Performance master cylinder and speed bleed line. We got this all set up this weekend as well. I am running stock thirdgen pedals. To connect the Tick Performance cylinder to clutch pedal what i did is cut off the head of another swivel similar to the Tick swivel (3/8-24 LH) and TIG on the head of the stock 3rd gen master cylinder rod so it was the same length as the Tick part. This worked out well and made for an easy connection.

Using the Tick speed bleed line was great... I can not recommend this enough. My friend Rich and I were able to get the system filled and bled within 1/2 hour. We are running Castrol SRF Synthetic Race Fluid. It is rated at 500F Wet Boiling which is the highest i have seen. To bleed we filled the resevior, opened the speed line and while Rich pumped the pedal I kept the resevioir filled. We pumped it many times ~30 until we were getting a steady stream of the new SRF fluid (it is clear) coming out. Then we closed the line and fed the speed line up through the transmission well so it was the highest point. Stepped on the clutch and cracked open the line, closed it and then let off the clutch. Did that about 3 times and that was it... Having the speed bleed and two people make this easy.

To adjust the clutch rod length we jacked up the back and while Rich rotated the rear wheels by hand we got the engagement point understood so that the pedal position is now set correctly per the Tick advice.

At the end of the day we pushed the car off the lift and outside for the first time since we started. Fired it up and drove it a little in the driveway (no brakes except emergency, so needed to be careful!)... Everything is looking good, need to get those brake lines so hopefully can take a real drive next weekend!

Last edited by alan91z28; 06-14-2009 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:51 PM   #107
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Quit teasing! Post some pics or vids. !!!
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:45 PM   #108
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

I know i really got to get some pics posted, i got my son a new computer for his birthday and it has the camera software on it and just haven't had time to get it hooked back up... i will work on it so i can show the points of progress

anyways over the last week have made some good overall progress and close to ready to drive.

- fine lines did a good job on the custom rear axle stainless steel brake lines and they installed great
- put in a SLP line lock kit
- got the brake system bled then but unfortunately have a leak at the baer adj proportioning valve body, looks like either bad threading or a small crack in the body of the valve... just got another one from jegs to replace it with
- got the drive by wire throttle pedal mounted... this will make for some good pics. i made a custom bracket that utilizes the existing 3rd gen pedal studs plus a tab connection to the steering column/dash heavy duty bracket. this really turned out nice and has the dbw pedal mounted in the right postion and very secure
- mounted the abbot elec to mech speedo drive on the engine compartment drivers side firewall with a custom bracket utilizing the bolt mounts that use to have the old fan relay, etc

so getting close to being able to take the first real drive. have to get the brakes complete, finish some torquing and do a little rough alignment and should be hopefully read this saturday for a real drive

the other thing i have been doing is working on the idle tuning with hptuners software

i got the first book "tuning the right way" and i have to say while certainly quite a bit of money it is really worth it as it makes the hptuners package very understandable and much more usable as you know what you are doing

for idle even with the cold air inlet improvements the LS376/480 would still idle rough after warming up and it would stall quite a bit trying to return to idle after a throttle snap as it undershot the target idle speed often

the tuner book had a whole section on bigger cam LS mods and going through it helped explain some things to tune... after reading this i have reprogrammed my ECM with the following adjustements
- adjusted my base idle +200 rpm across the coolant temp range
- increased my air flow at idle vs rpm vs gear by 4 grams / sec for <=2000 rpm and accordingly smoothed the airflow between my changes and 3500 rpm

these changes made my idle great, i can throttle snap, etc all day now and the engine coasts back to idle without undershoot... also it sounds great!
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:14 PM   #109
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan91z28 View Post
after reading the original stock file and saving it, i adjusted the tach output driver and got the tach to read correctly.
How did u read the orginal stock file ?(i am guessing it was a TPI motor) and how did u use it in the calculation to reprogram ur LS3 pcm?

what was ur logic in using a 3 o/p 98 CTS ?

any details on how u hooked up ur Oil preasure sending unit.

I am putting a 91 electronic gauge cluster in my 82 LS1. It would be great if u could post up some diagrams of ur 2 plugs in the gauge cluster.

Thanks man
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:15 PM   #110
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

When i mention reading the stock file from ECM i meant the file that came with the GMPP LS 376/480 controller. The original ECM from the 85 iroc and engine wiring harness to the ECM are completely removed and not used in any fashion

The reason for the 3 pin coolant temp from the '98 Z28 is that it has actually two senders in one body. One sender (the top 2 pins) is compatible with the new ECMs and is wired to that. The 2nd sender within that one body (bottom pin that references to case) is compatible with the existing gauge in the 3rd gen and drives it well.

For oil pressure gauge i ended up going with a '02 Z28 sending unit that replaced directly the sending unit that came with the LS3 engine. The LS3 engine controller doesn't need oil pressure. The '02 Z28 sending unit is a one wire gauge referenced to its case that can be directly wired to the original oil pressure gauge wire. The gauge responds well to this signal.

I will try and get my wiring data up this weekend that i used.
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:27 AM   #111
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

have any good pics of how you got the dbw pedal mounted? wanna make another bracket?? i need to figure out the dbw pedal i think, looks like i'll probably keep that on my swap now, but i'm kinda concerned about the dbw pedal mounting. thanks
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Old 07-03-2009, 01:00 PM   #112
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

ok got my camera set-up back up...

dbw pedal- here are some pics

i like the way mine worked out. it is nice and strong and mounts easily using the original pedal mount and one extra hole above in the steering / console frame

note that on my car the dbw interferes with the original "convience center" panel which is the panel that contains a couple of relays and alarm driver. what i did as you can see in the pics is modified the original convience center bracket by cutting off the back of it and welding in a plate and mounting the convience center to it with the 3 mounting holes. this then all mounted up to the dash with the existing mounting hardware and no longer causes any issue
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Old 07-03-2009, 01:06 PM   #113
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

more dbw pics with it test mounted in the car
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Old 07-03-2009, 01:14 PM   #114
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

finished the dbw with some black eastwood chassis paint and final mounted

note that in the last pic the modified convience center, you can see the 3 plated bolts that are mounted to the new floor plate and above that is the convience center panel. the panel use to have plastic mounting tabs on it, those are just snapped on, i just snapped them back off to make the panel smaller and used the 3 mounting holes. now everything fits and doesn't interfere or rub
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Old 07-03-2009, 01:19 PM   #115
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

i will get some pics up, but here is a quick shot of the engine bay

note that the bright blue conduit on the drivers side is just temp wiring i was running to my elec to cable speedometer driver box as i am not getting the signal yet out of the ECM correctly so doing a little trouble shooting

also got the car successfully inspected yesterday... most of the time was spent talking about the project with all the guys at the shop
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Old 07-03-2009, 03:38 PM   #116
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Shoot, I'd love to do my own tuning - but from everything that I've read, keeping the VVT adds a whole 'nother dimension to the process (like going from 3D to 4D...)
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:00 PM   #117
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Actually if you already understand the basics of how an engine runs tuning ends up not being that bad if you get a little bit of good instruction.

I know it is pricey, but i can honestly say the Tuning School Manual and Guide for the HP Tuners program made the tuner program 100X more usable in a short amount of time for me. I had a good idea about how things worked, but the training then made the tuner software obvious in terms of what you are changing and why you are changing it.

In fact it comes with 3 great examples of a basic tune, a hot cam/headers/etc tune, and a forced induction tune. They walk you through a step by step set of instructions that is not only practical but teaches you a lot. After leafing through their book i followed the idle tune instructions for the hot cam tune and ended up with a stable and tough sounding idle

Now to be honest i haven't changed a lot of parameters yet, so famous last words i will end up blowing a rod out the block, but if i do so i will probably immediately be able to so dah! No risk, no reward!

I haven't gotten their Advanced Book yet but i am expecting great things in it
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:15 PM   #118
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Catching up on some pics

First pic is how i mounted the fuel filter and fuel lines. I fabricated the basic bracket and bolted to the frame in the usual place on the rear drivers side. For the filter holder it is the standard LS 4th gen part. The lines all quick connect from the tank, i used the dorman kit described earlier in the post to custom make the lines and connections

The second pic is the rear exhaust. The basic exhaust pieces were all suggest by and bought from Bruce at Hawks, he has had a lot of great advice. Anyways it is a Muflex 4" outlet. The hangers to the car frame are all 3rd gen stock. The passenger side bolted right up. The drivers side we fabricated and welded to the tailpipe as appropriate. IMO this exhaust is a great balance between a nice tough sound but not over the top

Third pic is the back of the speedometer that i fixed. The trip odometer wasn't working because the plastic j holders had broken. Since i had the dash taken apart wanted to get that fixed. This fix is documented in a nice post elsewhere on this site and made this repair obvious and easy, great information on this board!
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:32 PM   #119
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

And here are some before and after pics of the seats i am going to put in the IROC after i get it repainted

Bruce at Hawks got me set-up with a killer package i think on this one. I am changing out the whole interior and i think these seats will really add a lot to the package
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:24 PM   #120
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

On Saturday my friend Rich and I focused on some basic tuning.

Installed the wideband O2 sensor and got it hooked up to read with the rest of the ECM parameters directly into HPTuners.

Then focused on Air / Fuel ratio adjustment at WOT... and had a lot of fun doing it. Made 4 different configs utilizing the Power Enrichment parmeters (Enrichment Rate, Power Enrich Fuel Multiplier vs RPM table, etc) until we got the A/F running at the targeted zone of 12.7 - 13.0. The tuning book i bought made this all very easy to do and with the wideband hooked up while reading all the other ECM parameters it was easy to decide how the changes were affecting performance.

Also i will have to take some pics, but the other thing i have found is that even with the Air Filter still in the engine bay, with the TPI scoops from Hawks i basically get ambient IAT as soon as the car is moving. I was debating on moving the filter through the battery tray like ghettocruiser has recently done but am going to hold off for the moment.

The one thing i still do not have right is the Speedometer... I haven't been able to get the GMPP ECM to drive the Cable X box to put out speed, i know the ECM is putting out a proportional signal based on looking at it on my oscilloscope with the rear end jacked up. If i direct wire to VSS i can get speed. I sent for a dakota digital universal speedo interface as maybe the cable x doesn't like an open collector driven signal.

The car with this set-up really rips. I am going to take it to the track in the near future to get a real 1/4 mile time to set a baseline.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:31 PM   #121
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

I have an extra electronic gauge cluster from a 3rd gen. I am not sure what year but its electronic.

Since u already have a tuner it might be easy to get rid of the X-box and use the electronic speedo.

Just an idea
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Old 07-09-2009, 06:57 PM   #122
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

what type of speedo is in the cluster? ie MPH range and also what configuration is it in terms of shape, ie is it a round ~100mm diameter type?
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:02 PM   #123
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

here is a pic of how i finished off the shifter hole. i used a PRO 5 shifter on the T56. Instead of the standard boot, i used a piece of ~.25 inch heavy rubber and cut it to size so it would cover the entire openning and also interface with the existing bolt holes.

i used a 3" hole saw to cut a hole for the PRO 5 which allowed it to still stretch over the top ring and then fit tight to the under side collar of the shifter

then i used some steel sheet (not shown in this pic) to make a 2 piece frame that went around the outside of the rubber and allowed it to be bolted securely in place. i drilled one extra hole in the back, otherwise used all the original bolt holes for the original T-5 boot
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:44 PM   #124
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

made some progress on the speedometer today....

a couple of things with the GMPP ECM, the one that came with the LS376/480 set-up is the E67 type with a special GMPP ECM tune for this engine (which needed to be re-tuned as mentioned above)

- it appears that GMPP has disabled the VSS PID in the OS that they use for the GMPP ECMs... i can not see any vehicle speed using HP Tuners scanner or an Autozone type scanner

- the VSS output in the bulkhead connector from the ECM wiring harness appears to now be a 4000 PPM open collector output. the GMPP instructions say it is a non-scaled output. however after using HP Tuners to adjust tire size and gear ratio, etc i believe it is 4000 PPM

- Connecting the GMPP ECM VSS output to a Cable X box appears now to work fine with the Cable X set at 4000. I originally believed the signal would be gear ratio * gear teeth * tire revs/mile which was like ~49,000 and my speedo wasn't doing anything as i was testing in the driveway and now i can see why.

It rained hard here mid morning so i only got to drive a couple of miles to give a quick test but believe this is now going to work

Also the ECM drives an elec speedo with no problem, i bought one from summit just to make sure the signal was there... too bad the 3rd gen camaros < '90 don't have a nice aftermarket speedo that can drop into the original cluster
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'88 Trans AM Candy Bright Red T Top- 305 TPI, M5
'88 Camaro Sport Coupes (2)- Metallic Dk Red, my first car & another look alike
'85 Z28 Iroc Black T Top- LS376 / 480 + Texas Speed Cam & Heads + TVS2300, T56, 9" 3.70
'82 Pace Car 4 spd manual

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Old 07-12-2009, 09:06 PM   #125
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

After Church i tested the Speedo some more now that it is a nice afternoon and had some time.

Had my wife drive in front of me at a constant 60 MPH and determined that I was moving about 2 MPH faster when my speedo read 60. Therefore i am close and know my assumptions above for the Speedo drive are correct.

I have the ECM programmed with a 25.5" wheel diam versus i see the tire manufacturer says 26", that would make up a little more than 1 MPH so I think I am good to go and i will adjust my programming to the 26" with HP Tuners.

Still don't have VSS on the HP Tuners Scanner which is a bummer, but i think while i try and get them to figure that out i am going to bring a speed signal into the same input zone as the wideband o2 and should be able to get speed that way so i can do some calcs for 0 to 60, etc

At this point have all the guages now working well and have the car pretty much fully functional. Short term need to get alignment done, little longer term looking at new paint and then install the new interior.

I will get a couple of pics on how i mounted the Cable X box and run of the speedo cable
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:24 PM   #126
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Here is how i mounted the Cable-X box to drive the stock mechanical speedo gauge

Again i have the VSS from the T56 going to the new GMPP ECM. By using HP Tuners i have calibrated the gear ratio, tire size, and pulses per mile. The ECM is putting out a calibrated 4000 pulses per mile that is going to the Cable X Box, so dip switch settings in the Cable X set to 4000.

Also mounting the box here was going to cause a pretty good bend in the mechanical speedo drive cable going into the passenger compartment at its original location. I therefore routed the cable through the same opening i made to pass the other new ECM harness through for the DBW pedal and OBD II (original throttle cable hole that i opened up, as shown previously)
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:33 PM   #127
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

A couple of comments on the transmission clutch.

So far my Tick Performance master and using the Castrol SRF fluid have been working great. I have not experienced any issues at all. No problem to date shifting aggressively at high RPM or getting into any gears.

Here is a pic of how i welded on the original 3rd gen master cylinder clutch pedal link to the 3/8-24 LH stud that is the interface point with the Tick.

Also for remarking the console I got this nice new plate from Hawks
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'91 Z28 Convertible Metallic Dk Red- 305 TPI w/Paxton SC, M5
'89 IROC Convertible White- 305 TPI, M5
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:43 PM   #128
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

One of the things that i have installed from my original try at using the basic 3rd gen TPI air intake system is Hawks TPI Ram Air Box

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ca...mairboxes.aspx

even though i am not using it anymore as i have gone with the big 4" K&N as noted in earlier posts above, leaving the TPI Ram Air Box in floods the engine compartment with cool air while moving at any reasonable speed. My IAT's moving are basically matching outside ambient with this set-up
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:49 PM   #129
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Here are a couple shots at ground clearance. As noted in my earlier posts Rich and I worked hard to have a good clean routing of the exhaust headers back. As you can see this results in nice ground clearance and no pipe to road/obstacle rubs
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:59 PM   #130
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Here are a couple exterior pics of the '85... I am going to get it painted after this driving season gets close to over for the year. My plan is to paint it black and change to silver accents to match the new black interior i have for the car

Also the mickey t's on the back make a huge difference in getting that power to the road... i only drive on sunny day's though
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:01 PM   #131
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Man.....u are one fast swapper.....car looks great !! I would say a little bit of lowering is in order....
How do u like it so far ? I bet u cant stop the ear-to-ear grin !!
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:19 PM   #132
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Gonna dyno it?
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Old 07-16-2009, 01:43 AM   #133
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

You have defintely given me ideas. I plan to do some things differently but thats what makes this fun. Every car is different. I may hit you up for advice when I do get around to the swap if you don't mind.

Do you know if that ram air setup works with a grille installed?
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:14 AM   #134
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

yes i want to get it dyno'd... i am looking to find someone who has one that i could rent out for 1/2 day as i would like to get a baseline and then see how some of my changes i made in hptuners has effected it as well as some additional changes i have been thinking about making.

the resolution on the hptuners scanner is good, if i could get the vehicle speed input to work i could do a decent estimation from that data. For some reason the basic GMPP OS in the crate engine ECMs is not turning the VSS PID OBDII data on even though as i said the ECM is seeing the signal, i can modify the tire diam, gear ratio, etc and it puts out the 4000ppm that drives my Cable X... thinking about how to just bring in another hard input into hptuners like the wideband input for now while they work on getting the OBDII input working

i think the air intake would work with the grill... you would still have a lot of open area. I am going to put the fog lights back in on mine and i think it should still work, will find out. i have a cracked fog light lens so need to get another one so didn't bother yet putting them back on
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:21 AM   #135
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

here are a couple more shots of the engine compartment as i am presently set up

also the one shot shows how i mounted the slp line lock kit. it fit in well without any trouble. i do not have it hooked up yet electrically. i am still debating on how to do the switch. i bought a shifter ball from jegs that has a button on the top of it, but after driving around the past couple weeks decided i probably wouldn't like that as i have a habbit of resting the top of my palm of my hand on the shifter... anyone have a favorite location for a line lock switch?
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Old 08-01-2009, 04:31 PM   #136
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Couple of quick updates-

Changed the shaft seal out on my rear end that was leaking... pretty straight forward on the 9", took using though my 3/4" drive socket and a long extension pipe on the ratchet to get the nut on the yoke loose though since they use a pretty heavy locker compound on it, otherwise just measure the thread engagement, pop out the old seal put the new one back with the same thread distance and good to go

Also been checked my gas mileage when i filled up today. Probably have driven a total of 300 miles now on this new motor. From my last fill up to this one i drove 155 miles on 11.1 gallons of gas, so ~14mpg. Note too bad considering any time i drive it, it is only on nice days where i can really drive like a banshee

I called up Hutter Performance in Ohio outside Cleveland and am going to make some dyno runs hopefully end of next week to see what this thing really does with its present set-up
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Old 08-08-2009, 10:08 AM   #137
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Went to Hutter Performance yesterday to dyno my IROC

They are very friendly and have a nice facility. Their tuner was not able to be there yesterday when i called to make the appointment as he was delivering a race engine for someone, but i figured it would still be good to get a decent baseline

Attached is my final dyno of the day... by adjusting the AFR and a little timing using my copy of HP Tuners, I ended up at 389 HP and 370 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. This was up about 10 HP from where I started my baseline run.

I was hoping to get over 400 as the LS376 / 480 with the hot cam is supposedly 480HP engine dyno and with 12-14% gear train loss in 4th gear you should expect 412 - 422 HP at the wheels was my estimate

As an interesting side note, the new LS3 equipped 2010 Camaro SS was recently dyno'd by Ligenfelter at 371 HP / 367 ft-lbs, so it seems like i should be able to get into that 410-420HP range with what i have in the current set-up

It will be interesting to determine what additional can be done with the base package, i am also going to get their recommendation for a more aggressive cam package.
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Old 08-08-2009, 10:35 AM   #138
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Awesome results! It is encouraging to see all these awesome swaps!
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Old 08-09-2009, 11:01 AM   #139
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

I like those camaro seats.
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Old 08-09-2009, 03:48 PM   #140
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan91z28 View Post
Went to Hutter Performance yesterday to dyno my IROC

They are very friendly and have a nice facility. Their tuner was not able to be there yesterday when i called to make the appointment as he was delivering a race engine for someone, but i figured it would still be good to get a decent baseline

Attached is my final dyno of the day... by adjusting the AFR and a little timing using my copy of HP Tuners, I ended up at 389 HP and 370 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. This was up about 10 HP from where I started my baseline run.

I was hoping to get over 400 as the LS376 / 480 with the hot cam is supposedly 480HP engine dyno and with 12-14% gear train loss in 4th gear you should expect 412 - 422 HP at the wheels was my estimate

As an interesting side note, the new LS3 equipped 2010 Camaro SS was recently dyno'd by Ligenfelter at 371 HP / 367 ft-lbs, so it seems like i should be able to get into that 410-420HP range with what i have in the current set-up

It will be interesting to determine what additional can be done with the base package, i am also going to get their recommendation for a more aggressive cam package.
Just remember, the dyno you went to was a mustang dyno. They typically read lower than a dynojet. Most say its more real world numbers and a dynojet (100% guaranteed what Lingenfelter used) dyno will show higher numbers. I bet if you find a dynojet dyno around you, with no changes at all, your numbers will go up.

Now we need some videos!
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Old 08-09-2009, 05:42 PM   #141
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Alan,
Man that is a clean set up. Im sure if you let the tuner work some magic on it you might see some better numbers...assuming he's good at tuning. I was disappointed in my numbers...but I have some mechanical issues. Im sure yours runs MUCH better.

I read about your shifter ****/line lock switch. My favorite spot for the momentary switch for the line lock is right on the shifter. I have a hurst sidewinder...so the switch is sort of on the side. Its pretty hard to hit unless you are aiming to do so.

The trick is...to wire that line lock with two switches...if you havent already. Run a master arm switch on the dash or hidden somewhere, then run a momentary switch. That way, even if you hit the button on the shifter, if the master switch is off, nothing happens.

As a side note...I found the button on my shifter is perfect for my reverse lock out also. So it doubles as the reverse lock out and the line lock momentary button. Both are low draw as far as electrical goes and neither are activated for much more than short bursts normally so I wasnt worried about doing any crazy wiring.

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Old 08-09-2009, 09:24 PM   #142
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Yes will have to see what we can do with a little tuning... it is nice to have a baseline, and i can remember when i first got my Paxton Supercharger for my '91 Z28 vert back in '92 that would put my 305 TPI up around 300HP at the engine what power that was, so 390HP at the rear wheels isn't anything too bad, but you always want more, and i think this has the potential

That is a good idea on the line lock... i have not hooked it up electrically yet and have a master arm / dis-arm switch would eliminate the worry of having it be a nuisance, i am going to do that, thanks for the tip

The good news with the LS motors is there is so much potential... The guy at Hutter's told me it really wouldn't be much to push this up to 500-600HP at the wheels if i wanted to go Procharger, they had some nice examples he pulled up from previous dynos to show what they can do... will have to think about the next big step over this winter

I will get some video up

Thanks
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Old 08-10-2009, 07:51 AM   #143
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Quote:
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The good news with the LS motors is there is so much potential... The guy at Hutter's told me it really wouldn't be much to push this up to 500-600HP at the wheels if i wanted to go Procharger, they had some nice examples he pulled up from previous dynos to show what they can do... will have to think about the next big step over this winter
500 at the wheels isnt difficult even without forced induction on an LS car. If you are smart with your head/cam/intake combo, its even pretty standard to reach those power levels while still being 100% streetable and even pulling half decent MPG.

My goal is 500 at the wheels with head/cam/intake once I figure out my mechanical issues and switch my cam to a custom grind from Rapid. Ill be using a proven recipe so I have high hopes haha.

Good luck getting her dialed in!! 390/370 at the wheel is nothing to sneeze at either...that'll still get it done on the street. Anything above 350 at the wheels is a fun ride no matter how you look at it.

J.
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:45 AM   #144
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

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Gauges etc. are covered in the swap sticky and many threads in this subforum.
where exactly is this sticky ?
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:35 PM   #145
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Justin, yes i agree with your comment... i am thinking about what to do next and am thinking how to do it as all standard motor vs supercharger... so many options with the LS is the great thing!
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:50 PM   #146
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

What use do you plan on subjecting your T56 too? I have been running the same tranny in my Z06 with 600 rwhp and have made 1k bhp on a dyno jet (it was tuned on a load dyno though) and my tranny is fine...I don't think you have worry about 430bhp hurting your T56..in fact I have putting down 170 rwhp hp more with no problems what so ever...and that is pushing 335/30 18 Proxes for rubber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bdbrd View Post
Just remember, the dyno you went to was a mustang dyno. They typically read lower than a dynojet. Most say its more real world numbers and a dynojet (100% guaranteed what Lingenfelter used) dyno will show higher numbers. I bet if you find a dynojet dyno around you, with no changes at all, your numbers will go up.

Now we need some videos!
Yep LPE uses dynjet 100% and they also 100% have held the 6 speed TT 1/4 mile record.

The only reason I had my car tuned on a load dyno was to simulate the real world conditions...there was about a 15 rwhp difference between the two.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:09 PM   #147
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Quote:
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What use do you plan on subjecting your T56 to? I have been running the same tranny in my Z06 with 600 rwhp and have made 1k bhp on a dyno jet (it was tuned on a load dyno though) and my tranny is fine...I don't think you have worry about 430bhp hurting your T56..
I'd tend to agree, since everything I've read says that your everyday stock T56 is rated for 450 hp, & it doesn't take that much to build 'em to take over 600... The one I bought is supposed to be good for up to 700, but I suspect that I'll probably start getting nervous about it once I get up around 550 or so... (And I KNOW that with this new engine & manual transmission, my 9-bolt is just living on borrowed time, even with the small bit of "beefing up" I've been able to do...)
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:22 PM   #148
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

Well i have been having a good time with my IROC over the past couple of months. Have put on about 1000 miles since the swap.

I started to get some abrasion on my clutch line from the master to the slave so re-routed that so don't run into trouble down the road, i will take some pics and post up

also i have been working on getting a schematic together on a powerpoint to share to make what i did for the wiring clear.

haven't had any troubles other than an very rare stall while coasting to a stop with the clutch in. probably need to slightly adjust the idle table. i would say this has only happened about 4 times but is something i want to look at when i get some time

presently i am starting to think about upcoming winter project already. a couple of things i am thinking

- redo exhaust for better flow
- something with the engine, not sure what yet, have been thinking about a couple of different paths... heads/cam, magnacharger, LSX454... easy to window shop at this point!
- get prepped for new paint first thing in spring and redo interior so car is ready for first class show next summer

always something you can do!
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:22 AM   #149
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haven't had any troubles other than an very rare stall while coasting to a stop with the clutch in. probably need to slightly adjust the idle table. i would say this has only happened about 4 times but is something i want to look at when i get some time
Forgive me...I dont know the actual technical name... But my car has something tuned called the idle decay I believe. As long as the car is moving over a certain MPH, or moving at all, the idle will be slightly higher. When I come to a stop, my idle hangs just a tad...then when I come to a complete stop, it drops down to my set idle. This helps with smoothness, and also prevents stalling when slamming the throttle body shut after a WOT.

Not sure if you have that tweaked...and I cant remember what all is done to your motor. I also had issues with this when i was running the FAST 90mm throttle body. What a pos.

Glad to hear you are enjoying it! Really makes all the work seen worth it once you are driving it around. I took mine out for the first time in a couple weeks yesterday and it still brings a smile to my face.

J.
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:44 AM   #150
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Re: LS3 Engine Swap

I finally finished putting my wiring mods into powerpoint. Since this forum doesn't support uploading .ppt files, i saved the pages as jpeg pics

Note that i did not write down the wiring that is going internal between the engine, pedal, etc and the gmpp engine harness. that should be pretty obvious

this provides what i did to interconnect the ls376/480 gmpp harness to the rest of the vehicle for power, guages, fan, etc

this has all the interconnections i made between c100, c207, etc

note that i completely removed and discarded the original iroc engine harness

also this is based on an '85 IROC VIN G... your wiring may vary but gives a good idea. the standard factory service manual for your vehicle is available from Helm and is very useful for verifying the original schematic connections

hope this helps
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:44 AM
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