88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

Heres my simple cost effective solution to running a T56 (LS1 in this case) with the 3rd gen pedals not having to be touched and re-using the 3rd gen clutch master.

Tools:

-Sockets/ratchet to remove to the clutch master form the car
-a small dremel kit from AZ or whereever you shop (i got mine for $10 from Autozone)
-cordless drill or dremel (if you dont already have a dremel, i didnt, hence the drill)
-pair of wide pliers or the like, just something to drive the roll pin in tight
-punch or something the same size to drive out the roll pin (TO BE RE-USED)

Parts:

-4th gen hydraulic line (bought mine used off LS1tech for $25 shipped)
-3rd gen clutch master w/ roll pin (you must get it out to re-use it or find another one same size)


I only have one pic, but its simple, take out the 3rd gen clutch master, push out the roll pin, pull out the line. If you compare the two, the 3rd gen main line after the flat surface is longer than the 4th gen, this means the 4th gen line bottoms out and wont allow a roll pin to be put in place. Simply take the smaller cylinder shaped grinding stone (the kit from AZ fit in the bore of clutch master almost perfectly), slide into the drill and bore it little by little checking the 4th gen line fitment until the flat roll pin groove on the line is just barely in the way of the hole. I made it so the roll pin was really tight on it, keeping the line nice and tight. This might have been a long write up for a simple fix but hey, you dont have to buy a 4th gen clutch master, and you dont have to mod the pedals at all.

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

wow no feedback?? did i offend everyone modding 3rd gen pedals or swapping to 4th gen?? lol

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

Let us know how it shifts for ya

RaverRacerX

the 3rd gen master going to push/flow enough fluid to work the 4th gen system?

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

do you think it will have an issue? or are you just asking?

kizmaro89

I've been using a 3rd gen master cyl. with my t56 for a year without any shifting problems. Using -3an braided line instead of the 4th gen line for easy bleeding.

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

awesome, thanks for the input Kiz

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Great info! Please let us know how it works once you get it in. It sure would make the swap easier, but I want to hear how it works first.

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

will do, my swap should running and driveable in 2-3 weeks

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

That's what i'm wondering...

Just asking, kinda wondering about the above ^^^

How hard are you on it? Stock clutch or aftermarket?

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

this is how mine was for years as well

spec 3 no issues at all.

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

damnit i sold my master with the trans

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I butchered up a bushing from a 3rd gen and used a generic parts store e-clip to hold my thirdgen pedals onto my 4th gen hydraulics.

It works fine but i have that real early disengagement issue that's so common. Not sure what causes it. Let me know if your method has that issue.

kizmaro89

How hard are you on it? Stock clutch or aftermarket?[/quote]

I drive it pretty hard on a regular basis. stock clutch. Bleeding only takes a few minutes with the -3 steel braided line using a MitiVac.

430Camaro

iTrader: (1)

What size e-clip works on the pedal linkage? I have the same problem with the little plastic bushing...

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

sorry i forgot to get back on this, i drive the car everyday now, 3rd gen clutch master works great, pedal engages high so i can tap it into gears easily, also, i broke the bushing in the pedal as well and ended up getting some snap rings from AZ, one of the boxes of misc. sizes they sell has 3 or 4 that are just the right size for it but i also still have the shell of the bushing in there to keep the rod tight.

430Camaro

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the quick reply. I think I found it...one for a 7/16" shaft seems to work well. Although I haven't driven it yet...just pushed the clutch in half a dozen times...

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

no problem, i went ahead and attached a zip tie as well, kind of as a "safety" catch in case the snap ring lets go, alittle "hackish" but better safe than sorry.

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

SO this has been working well for everyone?

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

on my third month driving it, ZERO issues.

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

Great. Damn i wish i didn't sell my master cylinder....does anyone know if the 4th gen master is the same?

camaro1185

Bringin' this back...
Awesome, I will be doing this with my Lt1 T56 swap.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

I'm looking at options now as well. I have a complete 4th gen and my complete t5 thirdgen. Looking for the best solution, but I do have 3rd and 4th gen everything, so would you just swap it out if you had it or run it as you did?

What makes it so much easier than swapping to everything 4th gen if you have the parts? I'm weighing options...


Thanks

driver101

iTrader: (4)

looks to be a good idea i will be trying this out

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

well if the car already has the 3rd gen parts still bolted in it, id say its easier to keep it that way and mod the clutch master rather than bolting in 4th gen parts and modding, even if only a little bit. Ive still had Zero issues with the 3rd gen clutch master as of..well... now.

firehawkta2002

I was looking into the possibility of doing this with my LS1 swap and I came across this thread. I knew both cars used a roll pin design for holding in the clutch line, but I was looking to find if they were the same size, now I know!

Anyways, to add to the topic, according to RockAuto both my '91 Z28's stock master and a '00 Z28's master have a 3/4" bore. They both look like they have about the same piston travel so my thoughts are that they both should be able to move the slave the same distance.

All I need now is just a stock LS1 clutch line (no master!). Thanks guys!

driver101

iTrader: (4)

ok i have a set of hydralics for a 96 camaro installed to third gen pedals,they work with the t56 i had before i went crazy and had to have a ls,now i noticed that the line was the same for the ls hydralics and it attached no problem.i will let everyonr know how it works once i get my harness from pocket

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

the issue wasnt the bore size, it was the bore depth...

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

it should work fine if modded correctly, ive been driving on mine now for 8 months, zero issues.

johnw999

I noticed on Rock Auto that most replacement 3rd gen master cylinders are 3/4 inch bore. One brand claims to have a 1" bore:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...679&cc=1251166

Anyone think the larger bore would work better with the 4th gen slave cylinder? I'm still trying to understand all the options and challenges with using a t56.

WTR388

I took my master off, drilled it out just deep enough to get my 4th gen line in there enough for the retaining pin to hold it in there nice and tight and it works just fine.
Don't forget to do the "drill mod" for the clutch line (this apparently is a big help with the clutch returning on high RPM shifting), and I suggest you use a grinding bit on a dremel like shown in this how to. I used a drill bit and I got lucky that it doesn't leak.

I haven't done much driving on it, however, it works good enough for now, and if I ever feel like upgrading I'll be going with the tick unit.

To get the car on the road, this works great, no messing with pedals and pins etc.

pmcruz781

This might have been covered somewhere here, but I have lt1 t56, can I use those when I change my t56 to an LS1 style t56?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Pedals yes, hydraulics no

Master cyl is the same more or less, but a LT1 system is factory sealed, so breaking it open means the slave is trash and you'd have to source a LS1 line which is pricey. Easier to find a LS1 master/line

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Why is the slave trash? It seems like it goes on and off just like the Cavalier slave I put on mine. I dont see any reason it wouldnt work if I put it back on...

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Its a sealed unit, there is no bleeder. Good luck getting all the air out of it

The cav unit is commonly used to solve this

Now, if he keeps the master, hes still out the line and good luck finding on of those for sale separately. New they are around $150. Back to the start of dump it and buy a LS1 master/line combo for $50-100 which are common from people upgrading

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

My cavalier slave had a bleeder, but I could never figure out a good way to bleed the system. Pressure bleeding didnt work. Gravity bleeding didn't work. Some replacement slave cylinders dont have bleeders at all. The "official" bleeding method as far as I can tell, for slave cylinders, is pump the pedal a lot. ... a LOT. That's the only way I could bleed mine. I dont see how a T56 slave would be any different.

pmcruz781

Pocket and vortex thanks for the replies. I don't want to hijack this guys post it was just something I was wondering about with my swap, and I think something others don't really know either.

johnw999

ok - I want to use my stock master cylinder with an LS style T56. I have the T56 slave cylinder. So, can I use this McLeod clutch line?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-139212/overview/

Looks like this line will allow me to change the fitting to the master cylinder. Is a 4th gen hydraulic line the proper length for use in my 3rd gen? Thanks

WTR388

I used a stock 4th gen line, right sized drill bit in the stock master just deep enough to get the roll pin to hold the 4th gen line in nice and tight and it works just fine.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Looks like a winner

johnw999

I ordered a new master cylinder, a mcleod clutch line, and a russell clutch fitting. The part #'s are 136.62011, 139204-30, and 641001. The 3rd gen master cylinder is made by centric, and it's advertised to have a 1" bore. The mcleod clutch line has a 4th gen slave cylinder quick disconnect which is connected to an -4 AN hose. The -4 AN hose connects to a shorter -3 AN hose. I was able to connect the russell fitting to the end of the -3 AN. The russell fitting was a perfect match for the 3rd gen clutch. It all fits together without having to dremel. Thanks to 88FormulaKiller for spearheading this idea.

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

No problem, just another car guy lookin to help wherever I can even if its just a (small) thing. I'm still building cars but not a 3rd gen right now, working on a 1st gen.... a 1st gen with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th gen, 04/06 GTO, S10 and Early B-Body parts in it haha! I'm sure I could help someone with a 3rd gen as far as 5th gen customization parts! sorry... been a long 4 years and I think I'm losin my **** from all the modifications to this damn car

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

I almost forgot to mention this ^ and I apologize. The 4th gen line I got of LS1tech already had the drill mod done, so it may have played a small role in how well it worked. Something to keep in mind.

WTR388

I drove it (hard) for the summer of 2015, had zero issues. Didn't drive it this past summer (bought a house, and was too busy doing the Atlantic motocross series here) but, as far as I can tell, I'll be keeping the stock master for a while.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Is that master made out of aluminum or plastic?

johnw999

Aluminum.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Cool, thanks

johnw999

I'm replacing the brake booster on my car. While it's out, I have a good view of my clutch master. Here is a picture of the thirdgen master and the McLeod clutch line. So far, this combination has worked well.