Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so here goes! I have spent the last couple of years slowly buying the parts that I will need for the build of my 1987 IROC hard top. I have been seeing all if the amazing power numbers out of the LS based engines on here and tech. I have seen alot of cars with 500+ HP with heads, cam, and intake. But I just don't see the need to spend this kind of money when I think I can get the same or better results with a T-70 turbo setup on a basically stock motor.
So that is what I am going to do. I just ordered my turbo components today, they were the last on the long list of parts to buy.
I'm not sure if I want to lower the car yet, I want to see what it looks like (how it sits) with the motor in it. Since I bought the car 5-6 yrs. ago without a motor and trans. has been just sitting in storage. And I have been collecting parts ever since.
So this is the plan, and I will be documenting with pic.s as the build comes together.
The car just came out of the paint shop, now she has a fresh coat of arctic white with gold SS stripes (which it had from the factory), I will post pic.s later when I can get to the car.
The plan is to install the LM7 5.3 in the car then measure everything up for the hot side for the turbo. I am sure this will take some time but it is winter and I have a shop with most all of the equipment that will be needed.
For the motor I will be running an ls6 intake, ls1 cam, and a set of PSI bee hive springs. I'm not sure about what push rods to use yet. I will be using a ported slp oil pump, JP racing billet timing chain set, and ARP rod bolts.

As far as the fuel system goes I will be running twin in tank pumps in a 4th gen tank, -6 feed lines, and -8 return line, and aeromotive boost reference fuel pressure regulator, billet fuel rails, and 42# injectors. Not sure on what I will be doing for a filter yet.
I will be running all of the above into a T-5 world class trans. with a spec 2+ clutch setup, stock drive shaft, and stock rear end. (I think I know what will break first)lol.
As far as the chassis goes I have a set of spohn sfc's and lca's. Like I said before, I'm not sure if I want to lower the car or not yet. I also have a set of C5 Z06 wheels 17-9.5 with 275/40/17 all the way around. On the brake side I'm going C5 Z06 front's, and ls rear's. I am thinking about a cage, maybe a 6 point. I just don't want any door bars.
I am really looking forward to this build, and I can't wait to be able to start getting my hand dirty. I would like to have it done by this spring. I would like to be able to run it on the power tour, and the lsx nationals. This will be a street car, not a drag car or a dyno queen. I am looking for 450-500rwhp in a fairly reliable combination. I think this should be doable.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Without door bars, it won't be a 6-point.

Which LS1 cam? Some were better than others.

While I can sort of understand the 5.3 w/turbo vs. 5.7 w/heads/cam/intake, the T5 part just doesn't make a lick of sense. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't survive the dyno session. Any sort of repeated spirited driving is going to grenade it. You'll also be short one bellhousing bolt. Admittedly the turbo will increase HP in the higher RPMs rather than down low, but that also means more RPMs to get going from a stop. Ugh.

I haven't done a lot of pricing of turbo components, but I think it's fairly safe to say you could make the same power with a NA 6.0l for the same money while being more driveable.

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a fun build. Personally after building a 6.0L for my car previously and building a turbo setup currently, iv realized that i should have just gone turbo in the first place. By the time you buy a 6.0L, buy heads, buy a cam, and buy some hawks headers youve spend close to the same as a 5.3L turbo would cost IMO. Plus the the turbo has the cool factor

What is a world class t5 rated for power? I just remember one of my friends braking one with a heads/cam 350 sbc.

Also, aeromotives website recommends a -6an return for all the way up to 1000hp. And how do you plan to run dual -6 feeds? or did you mean a single -8 feed that y's to dual -6?

As far a cage, i personally have had an 8-point for a few years now and dont mind the door bars. But i would say if you dont want the door bars, then you might as well not bother with the cage and just run some subframe connectors.

The only lowering i did to my car is cut 5/8th's of a coil out of the front because it sat a bit high for my taste after the ls swap.

Sounds like a fun build and i hope you work fast because spring is just around the corner

Edit: O yeah, hurry up and get us some pics

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Holy crap you are doing all of this with just one hand I am sure that was a typo, but I found it pretty funny. Although, if you really are doing it with one hand you are a better man than I.

I am going to keep a close eye on this one. I am planning on running my T5 behind a 5.3 at some point in time. Are you going to be running the 621 bellhousing? Or are you going to a Quicktime or the like? I think I have everything sorted out how to connect it, except the 17* angle. Are you going to be doing a custom shifter to compensate for that? Good luck!

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

To the OP and Drkhrse, i agree with Five7 about the T5 behind a 5.3, im pretty sure the T5's are only rated @ 300Tq and a WC is rated to 330Tq, considering a stock LM7 5.3 puts out 325 Tq, your running the T5 at just about its max handling capabilities, rather than grenade what might be a very good usable transmission, id recommend selling it off and using the proceeds towards a T56/4L60/MN12 or the like. Just my .02. Good luck with the turbo build, i have been scouring for turbo parts as well for my own swap, just cant get enough, got the LS fever.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I will be using both hands. lol
I do have a t-5 world class and I have been told that it should hold up. If not I will be buying the G-force gear set that will hold 600hp. I am going to use the stock bell housing from the camaro. Yes, it will be one bolt short, but I also talked to the guy at quicktime performance and he said I should be ok with this, and the t-5. He has also told me that the t-5 would hold a lot of power you just cant run slicks. If you run slick it will put all that load on the the gear box, and kill it. I am sure I will be going t-56 down the road, or a better 5 speed like a g-force, and a tremec tko.
Now, I know everyone has their opinion. But around Michigan I couldn't find a 6.0 for less than $1k to start with. I have $300 into my 5.3 to start. From what I have seen the 5.3-6.0 comparison is about 30-40 hp difference with the same parts. This is why I am going with the turbo setup. Down the road I will be able to turn it up without making to many changes. Bigger injectors, tuning, and drive line to take the power.
I haven't had a lot of cash until now to build this car, this is why I have taken my time, studied, bought all the best parts I could afford at the time and I think I am on the right track. I think my car should be set up pretty nice when it is finished.
I will be running the stock K member, stock trans mount, or I may have to build one. If I had an unlimited budget there would be a viper spec t-56 in the mix, but I don't have that kind of cash at this point.
I am just starting into this build, so some things might change along the way. We will see were it goes! It should be a lot of fun in the process.

Z28 MeTaL HeAd

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you need to stop listening to what "people" tell you. Even with a 600HP capable G-Force gear-set, you will blow that T5 to PIECES.

The gear-set although not the strongest out there, is not the weakest part of the T5, it's the case itself. There's been plenty of ppl who have tried to beef them up and it just doesn't work. They suffer from case-flex so you'll waste a crap load of money on a G-Force gear set for nothing, cuz it WILL break.

Remember, its not the HP that kills the trans, it's the Torque. It doesnt matter if its WC or non-WC, it WILL break. Theres a reason GM never put it behind even a 350TPI, nevermind a turbo'd LM7/LSx..that's asking for disaster.

Sell off your T5 and all it's associated parts and put it towards a LS1 T56 and call it a day.

UnstableAviator

It's the old saying "good money after bad" . I've seen T5's take a lot more abuse than I thought possible in Fox bodies, and I've seen em scatter behind a 305. The T56, however, could probably survive a holeshot through potholes and keep on going. Amazing transmissions, the T56.

I fourth the notion, get a T56 and save yourself the future headache.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Ok, So what if a guy were to get the g-force t-5 housing that is suppose to be way stronger. This is $350 for their case. Another $100 for the shaft support.
Now, like I said before I can't afford it at the moment. I think it will be a while before I get to the trans install so we'll see.

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

if you have the th350 mentioned in your user info, go that route until you save up for a t56. it'll work for cheap and hold up for quite some time. don't spend any money on a t5, you'll just regret it didn't go towards the 6-speed

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

I am sure everyone here is thinking of the racing side of things. My car is not that and will not be that for years to come. I have two kids and a wife that has decided to be a stay at home mom, I don't have the money to break parts. My car is for weekend cruising. The T5 will last in my case. I will not be launching it at 2K, 3K, or 4K rpms. I do not drag race, I do not auto-x, road race, etc.

I am still looking forward to this build to see what comes of it. You might be saving me some money in the long run with using the stock bellhousing.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

He wont have to turn it high to make 500whp. Should be doable on 12-13 psi with LS6 intake and LS1 cam, regardless of what year. that turbo if sized right will spool in the 3000 rpm range, right where peak torque is usually coming on. Peak boost before 4000 rpm so thats a LOT of torque from 4000 to 6000 rpm. That wont be stressing the bottom too much as long as the tune is good I cant think of a more driveable combo than a 5.3 with stock LS1 cam. A heads/cam setup making 500whp is gonna be a turd down low and really need to wind up.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

the turbo that I ordered is a Magnum t-70, .96 a/r. Race part solutions 50mm blow off valve, and a tial 46mm waste-gate. I think I am moving in the right general direction. All of this should be shipped next week. I just got my throttle cable, ls9 head gaskets and water pipe for under the throttle body ls6 intake today.
I am starting to think that Santa drives a brown truck. Because he drops off cool stuff for me everyday. lol
I am on the fence about the t-5. I know I am going to break it. But the t-56 just isn't in the budget right now. It will be in the future, just not now.
I will be posting some pic.s soon. I haven't touched much on the engine yet, but now that I have the head gaskets I will start on it.
Does anyone know for sure what push rods to use with the ls1cam? I would like to go hardened. Just need to know what length to go with.

ransam

iTrader: (2)

your build sounds exactly what im looking to do so i will be following this closely. Are you using the stock ecm with a reflash? I dont know much about turbos and was curious how you arrived at that particular turbo set up as i will be shopping for turbos in a few months. Although i will be going t56 on the trans it sound like i have the same goals in power for my car as well. good luck on the build! Im about to start the block sanding portion so i have a few months before i start the fun stuff.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Could you shoot me a PM with the information the guy from Quicktime gave you on how to connect the T5 to the 5.3? I was going to go the 621 bellhousing with the LS1 clutch, flywheel, LS7 pilot bearing, and Howe Racing throwout bearing. I am curious to what pilot bearing you would use to connect the two.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

How did I come up with this turbo setup? A lot of reading, talking, and trusting the right people. I have talked to turbo guys from all over the country, and finally found one guy that had time to explain a whole lot of information to me. some of the guys I had talked to would rather send you packing a lunch than help you with anything. If you would like to know who I talked to PM me and I will let you know.
ORR89rocz's build thread and post's are very informative, there is so much info out there, it's easy to get confused.
I have been involved in the turbo world for over 10 yrs. nut all of those systems were on motorcycles. This is my first turbo car build, I wanted to get good parts that will work for a long time.
I really thought about going with an ebay cheapy, but I didn't want to have to redo everything in 2 months when it died.
Also, I read the hotrod article about the turbo 5.3 that they setup to make like 485hp on a stock motor, with a t-76. But the spool time would be laggy. Good for racing, but not for the street.
I am going to MN today to bring my car back next week. I hope all goes well.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so I have run into a snag in my plan. That snag would be my painter. My car looks like ****! The colors are correct, but some were in the nixing process the gold for the stripes is the wrong color. Also, there seems to be a lot of crap in the paint too. The bodywork on the car doesn't even look good let alone what I expected. I have to say there might be a hardtop car for sale in Minnesota that needs paint.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

I thought I should post some pics of the car. This is with the shatty paint job/body work. It doesn't look bad in the pic.s but lets just say shes a 20/20. OK.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

And when I got back to my office I found all the stuff I had ordered had come in. Turbo, waste-gate, BOV, and flanges. Now I have to wait for the car to be repainted, then it's time for some fab work. I thought I would have the motor in, and have the hot side fitted by the first. That just isn't going to happen.

1nasty86

iTrader: (5)

a .96mm a/r on a 5 speed and a 5.3 no offence will be a turd till it hits boost... my t67 with a .81 a/r made full boost by 3400ish with an auto.. so by the time you hit boost your most likely to blow the tires off then shift and your right back out of boost. IF you were to go auto then it would be 97862806728072% better but it should make VERY nice dyno power.

jamieschott

iTrader: (2)

I had a WCT5 behind a 383 with 375 RWTQ that lasted a year and half before the motor broke. I didnt have any problems with the tranny during that time. Now I also never took the car down the strip either, but did have some spirited street driving.

Im not saying that its the ideal situation or he shouldnt worry about it. But I think he would be ok in a pinch, assuming that there are no issues mating it to the GEN 3 and mount concerns.

85z28kid

iTrader: (7)

Good luck on the build and on that new rearend that you bought from Sean. I think you could talk to him and he could give you lots of info on turbo as his cars a turbo aswell and you ain't to far from him.

Keep us posted with pics and Join mifbody so we can see your progress up there.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Wow! I haven't even told any one about that yet. Ha, well I guess my budget build just got a little more expensive. In the last two weeks I picked up a t-56, new spec stage 3+ clutch, Spohn cross member and torque arm, and a moser 9" reared. I guess I can only say that I really only want to do this once, I just hate to break stuff down the road when I could have gotten the correct stuff for my build in the first place.
Also picked up a pair of brand new scat pro car seats, they are the rave series seats. I am a pretty big guy and these seats fit perfect, all the support 5 point harness friendly, and oh so comfy. If anyone need a set of seats I have got the hook up. PM me if your interested.

85z28kid

iTrader: (7)

Can't keep secrets lol! Yea he's a local on the board.

Should be a mean machine hopefully soon! Need to keep us updated with profess. I'm also looking into the boosted world soon with my big block. I'm only looking at 415-425 rwhp with my current setup. But I'm hopefully Gunna hit the 700+ with my boosted big block.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

We'll after the purchase of the trans, clutch, and the rear end. I think I will be on a spending freeze. At least until after tax season. I think I should have enough stuff to keep me busy. I will be keeping you posted. As soon as I get the car back here I will be jamming on it with every free minute.
I would like to start building the hot side of turbo system, but I need the car for fitment. I can't wait to get to work on this car.
I do have the motor in my shop but I am waiting on some room to start taking it apart, just to see how good it looks inside. The only thing I am really wanting to see is the condition of the crank. I think I will put a new set of bearings in it while I'm at it. As a matter of fact I think I might just do that today, take it apart that is. I need to get the cam swapped, and my new slp ported oil pump, and timing gears/chain installed. Sounds like a good job on a snowy day.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

I don't think that should be to hard to hit with a bbc on boost. I have seen some of the bbc with twins hit 22-2800hp on the dyne in minneapolis.

toomanytoyz

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, because I plan to turbo mine next year. This spring I am just going to get the 5.3 and t56 in and drive it and next winter build the turbo. Take lots of pics!!!!

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so I finally get to bring my car home so I can get busy on it. I picked up the car from the painter yesterday, and hopefully I can be on the road tomorrow back to Michigan. Just waiting on the weather, freezing rain today.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Oh, and I will be taking bunch of pic.s during the build.

85z28kid

iTrader: (7)

How's the paint look now?

Also you need to hurry up and get this assembled so I can see pics of your setup.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so the car is in Michigan now. And it looks pretty dang good for a garage paint job. Of course it will still need a wet sanding and a good buff job but it should look good when finished. Oh, yeah. I just picked up the new rear end setup tonight from aa fellow member of TGO. Thanks Sean. I have all the main parts to seriously start my build. So this week I will be digging into the motor since all of my parts so far are on the way.
So, let the headaches begin. I will try to post as often as possible.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

So this is what I am starting with. A clean slate for the most part. I'm gonna start on the motor tomorrow, and hopefully pull the old rearend and hang the new 9" in there this weekend if I can get on the lift. We'll see.

85streetmachine

Love the wooden hood strut your rockin I had the same problem for the longest time til i ponied up and bought new struts. Good luck with the build.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

I haven't posted for a little while. :caveman: But I do have some stuff to share. So last weekend I tore into the motor with these things on my list.
ARP rod bolts and check out bearings, install the ls1 cam, SLP ported oil pump, new timing gears and chain, valve springs, and basically clean everything up. Lucky me! I have a nice heated shop to work in.
After I got everything clean I painted what needed painting, then reassembled the bottom end. Put on the new f-body oil pan and all those goodies. Got a bunch of new gaskets and put it all back together. Getting ready put the intake on, But I am wondering if the knock sensor wiring need to go in first. I think it does, just not sure. Tomorrow I will be finishing up the rear-end and suspension with all new hardware. I am waiting on the sway bar mounts from Spohn and that should be done. I have new rear shocks to put in but will have to lookup where in the heck the top of the shock bolts up. I might just bolt in the new cross member and torque arm tomorrow, so the stocker isn't banging around under the car.
This week I am planning on getting the engine and trans bolted together, and I am going to put it on a cart so I can pull the k-member and get everything bolted into place. Then the real fun begins, tabbing up the hot side. Not sure how I want to run all the plumbing yet though?

85z28kid

iTrader: (7)

Getting some work done!!

The shock bolts are easy to get at once you find them. You lay the back seats down and pull the carpet up they are right on the top of where the the back flattens out and there right on the edge of where the plastics are. Theres like a foam insert in there to take up some space.

camarozz383

iTrader: (2)

hope it works! sounds good.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Got a little more done today, finished up the engine. Funny thing is when I had that crank pulley off I thought about painting it. Now that I see it in the picture, I should have painted it. Oh well, I don't think anyone will complain about it. Cleaned up the intake and injectors, and got them all installed. Also ported the throttle body, and picked up some bolts to mount the TB.
A friend of mine who runs a shop in Grant Mi. loaned me a wiring harness to copy for the motor. So that should be a couple interesting nights of work. I have been studying Pockets prepping a third gen harness write-up pretty close. So I will be pulling that out of the car soon as well. I think the wiring is going to be a major pain in the ***! But, I know I can get it done just the way I like it. I an kind of a perfectionist, especially with my own stuff. So I am hoping everything else goes swell as the engine did.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

I sure hope it works too. Hopefully I will be doing some of this this summer.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Got the twin pumps in the sump, so I can run the 4th gen tanking this weekend. If my fuel fittings get here sometime soon. Been waiting for 3 weeks now. Getting a little impatient. Things are getting hung up on the little stuff.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so I have some questions. I am wondering if I should be moving my motor back? I bought the Dougs motor mounts that I can either move the motor back 1" or keep it in the stock location. Before I go to drop the motor in I would like to know this. I haven't been updating this as much as I would like to but there is only so much time in the day.
I have to say thank you to Pocket for his great write up on the wiring harness stuff. But I do have some questions about the wiring in my car. I know where the C100 is in the car, but on the passengers side of the car there is a harness that comes out from under the fender. (I think) When I bought the car this harness was in the trunk. What does this harness run?

85z28kid

iTrader: (7)

That's for the stock motor. It's the "engine" harness and the c100 is the "body" harness. It is not needed in your application. It's actually good they kinda helped you by ripping it out already.

Any updates?

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Not a lot for updates at this time. I did get my inter cooler and and the charge tube plumbing. Still waiting on my fuel system fittings. I might try to get the motor and trans in this weekend/next week. Then I can start all of the plumbing, for the turbo, exhaust, and the fuel system.
I picked up a triple gauge pillar for boost, fuel pressure, A/f ratio. I got the guages from glow shift. they look pretty nice for being so inexpensive.
My office is starting to look like a high performance parts room! And I love it!

88camaroluvr

Do you have a link to Pocket's wiring thread? Thanks in advance.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post4305264

Here ya go!

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

u will get addicted to psig. These ls motors are fiends for boost.
Im going with a tc78 on a genIV 4.8 with a built th350. I got a 420rw 6.0 behind a th350 right now thru a moser 12bolt. Never tried the magnum turbo line. I got my tc78 for 820$ shipped.
I made a few turbo manifolds for 3rd gen ls swaps a while back. But not enuff interest.
Are you making your own hot parts?

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, that's the plan anyway. But I have to get my motor in first.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Well, I have been doing some little things here and there to the car. When I picked up this car it had been stripped by the previous owner. It looks like they were going to transplant something else into the car motor wise. So the motor and trans were gone, the C100 harness had been completely labeled, and the C207 harness had been removed and thrown in the trunk. In the interior was a bunch of crap like the drive shaft, a sbc starter and alternator, and all of the interior that was loose in the car. The only thing that was bolted down was the dash. The pedals are gone, and there is a lot of wiring hanging down from under the dash. It also looks like there was an alarm in the car, since I have never seen GM use wire nuts on anything (and there is a ton of them under the dash. I will take a pic and post it. The seats were junk in the car when I got it, so they went by the wayside. All of the trim in the car looks good, the guages show like 43XXX miles, and the body is super solid NO RUST anywhere! SCORE!!!!
This weekend I was fighting with the motor mounts, and I had to plasma cut part of one off. Now it fits cherry. So this week I am looking to get the motor in the car and start mocking stuff up for the turbo system. Also took the liberty of putting my doors all back together, I picked up some inside and outside window sweeps, and I also just happened upon a set of really nice top door trim pieces in the JY for cheap. So, yesterday I put on the sweeps and aligned my windows, then found all of the parts to put the door panels, trim plates, and grab handles on. Successful in finding all of the parts in the car. And the are all together with no rattles. So I am happy about that and they came out really nice.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

So my next question will be if anyone can tell me what the C207 connector plugs into. Since that harness was sitting in the trunk of the car when I got it I have no idea were it goes. Oh yeah, I am also wondering if I even need it. I posted a couple of pic.s above showing how everything is in the car. This pick is of the drivers door that I just got back together.
I was also looking at how the truck manifolds are angled, I think the passenger side might be an issue. any input would be helpful.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

Well, its late but I thought I might post an update. I got the 4th gen pedals in tonight , and i figured out what all the wiring hanging from under the dash is. It looks like the previous owner had an alarm installed. Thats just great, I don't have any remotes for an alarm. And I would like to cut this out, but not sure if I should.

Speedfreak391

iTrader: (1)

So thing are coming together. The motor is ready to go in and the trans is mated with the motor. I am hoping to have it in the car by the weekend. A couple of changes have been made in the process. I ordered a set of forward facing headers with v-band collectors. I am hoping they will fit in the car without to much massaging. The headers should be here this week, then I can start the mock up on the turbo system.