whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Expecting one thing and actually running another are two totally different things. First off, I'm not trying to start a fight but I highly doubt a 420 rwhp 3700 lbs car is coming anywhere close to 124 mph in the 1/4 unless your at -5000 DA. I've been around long enough to see what certain combos are capable of, and I sure as heck have never seen a car with that weight and power even come within 6 mph of that. Unless your seriously sandbagging your dyno numbers or weight, your car aint running that time.

My turbo 5.3 TA made 540 rwhp and I just went 11.52 at 124.5 with a 1.85 60 ft. Weighs 3500 lbs with me in it. Granted it's a 6 speed car and only my 2nd time to the strip with it, but still, it is what it is. Another local buddy went 125 mph in a supercharged C5 vette making about 525 rwhp. Our local track is higher than average in elevation, but my point is that you shouldn't go shooting somebody down because you "think" you know what a car should run. Just understand that most turbo cars run different than N/A cars at the track, and turbo cars will NEVER be as impressive at the track as they are on the street, unless you have a 100% set up car to utilize the turbo off the line and a stalled auto to keep it spooled down the track.




Like I said, not trying to pick a fight, but I too went down this road. My 5.3 blew up due to way too much timing in the tune when I had a buddy tuning it. I fixed it on the cheap and then picked up tuning myself with HP tuners and got a nice, conservative tune in there. Unfortunately, then a wastegate line popped off and it overboosted which cracked another ringland and bent a rod. Fixed it cheap again and now it has been solid.

Point is that the junkyard motors are so cheap and fun that it doesn't matter if you blow them up. It's a learning curve, and to be able to say you tuned it and built it yourself is just awesome. Thats really the only way to learn IMO, and hey, if it means you need to pull it apart and slap in another piston, so be it. It's a good way to ensure you never make the same mistake again!

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

Come on down and see it for yourself. I'm not the only full weight car around here trapping low-mid 120s at this power level. A 3600lb F-body that works right should go 120 with ~390 at the wheels (I did 118 at 380rwhp). 500rwhp full weight cars hit 130. I'm talking about sticky tire auto cars with suspension work, NOT manual trans cars on hard tires and stock suspenion like I'm assuming you're familiar with.

It went on the dyno like I drive it - no tricks. Mustang dyno, converter unlocked, drag radials... not a dyno friendly combo. However, it still made more power than 2 different AFR headed, 228 cam, MAMO ported FAST cars through a 6 speed on the same day.

And as far as expecting with my 3rd gen? My EXACT setup is already in another car (see my previous post). Granted it's a 89 Mustang, but it weighs the same. Same longblock, turbo, trans, etc. He went 141 at 607rwhp and 3000lbs. I WILL as well.

Read the part in bold. I'll keep my turbo/manual trans comments out of this

I followed your build. And while the self-tuning thing is just my opinion, it seems I have quite a bit of examples to back it up. Blowing your engine is unfortunate, but I wasn't a bit surprised when you posted it. All I know is that I see a GT45, LS9, Microsquirt car not running right and chunking a piston and immediately think denmah. Just wanted to inform the guy that there are better budget avenues to take, and they don't involve pulling the engine out every weekend, like denmah.

STREETDEMON

Marc 85Z28,

If you are going to give contructive criticism/help, try doing so without the rolleyes and "poking the bear".

All you are doing is muddying up the thread with pointless banter. Just because you have a certain way of doing things, doesn't mean it's the "right way" for everyone.

These forums are in place to help people and share our builds, not to go around starting pissing matches.

There, I'm done with my soap box!

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

I did. See my first reply, post #39. I tryed to offer some advice to prevent ANOTHER blown engine. Kyle took offense to the tuning comment. But after the responses, perhaps I should let these guys continue on their road to more failure in the interest of their pride.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Theres the key words... Unlocked converter and mustang dyno. 420 is stout for that.
My 308whp locked converter dynojet car went 111 at 3560 in -1000 ft da lol. My 400whp locked dynojet 3450lb car went 119 in 2200-2500 ft lol

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Saying your car is making 420 rwhp is a bit deceiving then, since obviously an unlocked converter car on a mustang dyno that puts down 420 rwhp is probably more like 500 rwhp if it were a stick car. I know of only one car similar to that locally (well, RI...not CT), but it makes 525 rwhp and weighs roughly the same. He goes low 11's at 127 mph at a track up by him, although it's a T56 car. The air by me is not great at our track and it reflects in the local times. My brother's 06 LS2 goat weighs 3500 lbs and makes 390 rwhp and he has run a 12.4 at 114 mph with a 2.0 60 time. I've had buddies run in MD which is where your from I'm assuming, and they have said they run considerably faster there than around here. Either way, all tracks are different so using numbers you have run will never exactly equate to somebody elses.

And FYI, my best time to date was on a 17" MT drag radial. in 100% street trim with my sub in the trunk and my tiny spectre air filter still on the turbo. The car has more in it, but I like to see how it performs in street trim, since it is a 90% street car.

Just saying, it's not really fair to argue a time your personal car "should" run even though it isn't done yet to somebody that already has one running. It sounds as if your setting yours up for drag performance so I don't doubt it's capability...just basically saying give the kid a break. Mid 11's at 124 is nothing to sneeze at in a budget built junkyard turbo street car.

I know a stick/turbo combo is not ideal for drag racing, but I wouldn't have my car any other way. Something about banging gears and feeling that turbo come to life between shifts just makes it all worth it, whether I could knock off another .5 seconds or not with an auto...just not my thing!


I've never cared to mess with the MS stuff since HP tuners with the speed density OS is all you should ever need with the stock PCM, but to each their own. Many guys have good luck with it. I had my unfortunate issues, both of which were not entirely because of my doing, but it's all part of the game. I had the car apart for 2 weeks the first time, and all of 4 days the second time. Both times after getting it back together, I turned the key and the motor ran flawlessly. This time around, I have 14-15 track passes on it, and plenty of street races and the engine has taken it like a champ. And if another issue arises and it pops, I'll fix it again. Thats the beauty of junkyard stuff! Anyways, I'm not going to rant anymore and clutter up Kyle's thread. If you'd like to continue the convo, we can go to PM's. I was just trying to make the statement that eventually, everyone learns how to make the combo better. Giving some helpful criticism is ok, but your comment about how he wasn't making the power he thought because he "only" trapped 124 got to me a little. I have a dyno sheet showing 540 rwhp, and a timeslip saying 11.52 at 124.5.


Sorry for the thread ranting Kyle86! Good luck getting her back together. Thats the beauty of the junkyard stuff...nice and cheap

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

LOL Thanks WhitedevilTA. You made some good points.

Well I've got some updates. I was getting some blowby when in higher boost and I don't think the new rings were seating well to the older cylinder walls. I took a gamble and learned a lesson in the process. It would probably last forever in a stock setup, but it's gotta be fixed if I want to make any real power.

I got the engine pulled and apart,






I bought a 320 grit 3.75"-4.25" Silicone carbide ball hone to refinish the cylinders. I honed it with the crank still in the engine btw. I laid wet rags over the crank like an old 1930s engine repair manual told me to do I also stuffed newspaper up into the cam valley and bottom of the bores, and I lubricated everything with wd40.








In goes 3 fresh race pistons and new rings.. BTW I got me this Lisle piston ring compressor from Orelly's auto parts and It is Awesome!!!!!



Plastigaged my new rod bearings, standard parts store speed-pros, they have always been right on the money for me. A tad loose but well within tolerance.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Pistons in their new happy home.





I also decided to pull the LS9 cam and put in something a little more moderate in specs. In went the super cheap Trick Flow 216/220 cam. It has a 114 LSA and .560x/.560x lift.




And everything is back together!!!!



I actually even reused the head gasket that I took off. Since it's MLS, lots of people on the net said you can just clean them off and spray them with a couple coats of "copper coat" spray. I did and they sealed up great! I also made a check valve for my PCV system using an old brake booster valve, and some old heater hose to use a sleeve for the pcv hose. It worked out great. I use cheapy fuel filters instead of breathers or catch cans, and just blow through them occasionally to make sure they are not clogged.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

I took the car out and proceeded to "break in" the rings with lots of throttle punches and engine braking down hills. Then back to the house for a compression check. Checked compression and they are the same as the rest of the cylinders now HORRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also good oil pressue YAY!!!!

I didn't stop there. I then proceded to drive straight to the e85 pump and filled up with e85 ethanol. While premium was 3.55/gallon, e85 was only 3.09 per gallon!! A retune for the e-85 by driving around with the laptop and now I'm right on the money with the fueling. The single 255 walbro seems to be holding up great too. Still using the same timing as pump gas though while I get things sorted out.

I'm running on just 7-psi right now and it feels so much more powerful than before. It feels like 12 psi did with the stock cam and 93. I attribute the new power to the trick flow cam, pac 1218 valvesprings, and e85.

Well, Sunday I couldn't resist and drove it to the local street-race event for some fine tuning. In the process, I got to beat a couple NEWER supercharged stangs, and a 5.0 coyote stang running nitrous. I finished 4th out of 17 cars and only because the last race the guy jumped the arm drop and I stupidly chased LOL. The car got a lot of attention and I had people come up to me and tell me they were betting their money on my car HA! It is pulling SUPER hard on only 7psi. No timeslips here, but I plan on going to the track mid november with a fresh set of rear tires. I want a 10 really bad now.

Anyways here is a video of one of the races. As you can see my tires suck and I gave the supercharged stang 1 car length, so I had to chase him down.


.

STREETDEMON

nice run, glad to see you got it back together.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Streetdemon, thanks man!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Glad to see you have it running so well now. Be extra careful on one 255 pump and E85 though man. That pump is going to be working it's butt off to fuel that motor. I'd guess you're probably about maxed out pump wise at 7 PSI...and honestly, I don't know how the 255 is keeping up with it on 7 PSI and E85 lol. What size injectors are you running in it?

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Same here LOL, I'm keeping an eye on the AFR during the runs to make sure it can keep up. I believe it's because I'm running 80lb injectors and a low base pressure (40ish psi).

UR50SLO

iTrader: (1)

Hi Kyle....

I think your learning a lot in the process... Which will lead you to change some things in the future... I've been there..

As the couple guys above said with E-85 you'll really need a good fuel system. That's a large volume of fuel needed to feed a big injector for a boosted setup.

Your Intake air temps are pretty high for the amount of boost your running. Look into moving the turbo inlet where you can pick up fresh air better. It'll make the intercooler have to disapate less heat and keep your IAT's cooler.

The rear is not going to hold up to a hard launch.. Save up for a good rear end. It'll happen sooner than later as you go up in power and are able to 60' better
Your ratio is fine... 3:50 or lower for the next rear end too.

The Tubular K-members are not all that expensive... You can get one with the coil over conversion (Puts springs on the strut) and tubular lowers pretty cheap.
Then in the next couple years put the rack in. It'll give you room to put the manifolds down facing instead of up. Thus saving you room and eating up your wires.

There's more room up in the passenger side front for a turbo and downward facing manifolds. I used a truck one on the pass side and 2010 Camaro on Drivers side.
All the hot side can then stay low and out of your way. a 4" downpipe can fit very easy between strut tower and engine and go down behind on pass. side.
I put a couple V bands on mine so it can come apart quickly.

A stock 4.8L with the rings gapped correctly and good headgaskets/studs so you don't lift the head can make 1000hp. The reason they go is pushing coolant or crushing rings/lands.
The bottom ends are incredable. Heads flow fantastic.

I never had my V6 Setup on the dyno.. but it ran 10.32@133mph on 93pump gas with 18psi with a 3:25 rear gear. I was guessing it made about 575-600ish at the tires...

I'm taking my new setup slowly into power.... Hope the weather looks good for this coming saturday as the local track here has delayed it's test and tune for the last 3weeks and this coming saturday is the last one... I really wanted just one 9 sec pass this year before doing my list of stuff for spring. (launch stuff/boost control stuff ect)

Keep experimenting that's what it's all about. I hope I was offering helpfull info and was trying to not be offending.
~Scott.
(Current setup in mine)

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Scott, are you kidding? That's a ton of great info! Thanks for sharing with me and the rest of the third gen community. I know I've got a lot of iffy stuff going on, but money is super tight right now so I can't do a whole lot. #1 priority is upgrading the fuel system. #2 is the rear end. I hope you get to go to the track in that beautiful car of yours! Keep us posted and good luck!

Another update for me, I will be going to the track on either NOV 9th or Nov 16th to hopefully run a 10. Will post back with an update!

STREETDEMON

kyle, keep an eye out for somebody parting out a ranger, a code R5 on the driver's door will get you an 8.8 with trac loc and 3.55 gears. might be a little tall for your turbo, but that's the most road friendly with a factory posi.

on the explorer side, look for a D1, that will get you a posi set up with a 3.27. not as swap friendly because of the 31 spline carrier and the bigger inner diameter of the tubes.

here is a link to the break downs on the 8.8 that i used while building mine.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/Axles.html

on a budget, i still think this is the best way to go. lots of aftermarket for the 8.8 as well!

UR50SLO

iTrader: (1)

I think the weather god's are on our side so far for this coming saturday... I'm planning on going and seeing if the chassis can handle some boost off the line and seeing what MPH it'll do on a full pass.... went 145mph on a 900ft pass so we'll see

Good luck to you this weekend too!
~Scott

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

Kyle, the car is doing GREAT man, and you seem to be having fun with it! i hear through the grape vine that it's really making waves down at MND StreetNite, those guys KNOW once you get it dialed you will be the "killuh" and folks will be gunning for you sir! Keep up the good work man, i'd like to think i had a part in it somewhere

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

LOL Matt!!! Thanks dude. The people out there were nuts. People were brushin me off until I beat the "street king" who's won the past 2 races. After that I had people all over the car askin me questions and telling me they got money on me and that next dude's ganna jump LOL!

I figure I'll hit the 1/4 mile track just to get my time for bragging rights and what not, but the 1/8th is really a lot funner to me for some reason.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

please wear a helmet, i don't care if it's "streetnite" or not

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Prob is a good idea. I brought one but nobody else was wearing one. Speed was well under 100 due to traction.

Maybe these will fix my traction problem...



Toyo TQ drag radials.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

we got a set of those on the chevelle, but no real experience with them other than rolling the car around the yard. keep us posted on how they do.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

$367 shipped to my door. Hard to beat that if they hook. Supposedly they wear good too.

STREETDEMON

yes, very interested in these as well! i was going to pick up a spare set of 91-92 z wheels and have them widened so i could run the 275/45R16s.

probably end up with a set that will fit on the stock wheels....haha.

definitely let us know how they grab.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Dude that is some great info! I'm going to likely go this route since it's obvioufy cheaper/stronger that the 7.5 I have now. Thanks for sharing!

Oh and btw the toyo tq tires are 275/45/16. I'm going to mount them on factory 16x8 IROC wheels.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Well.. the toyo tires hook up pretty darn good but you have to heat them up some first. They hooked up so good I broke my transmission mount at the track when I went to 11 psi and never got a full run. It striped the bolt right out of the mount. 1/4 mile track is closed for the rest of the year so I'm stuck with 1/8 mile for tuning.

AFR staying where I want it so I believe the fuel pump is keeping up with the flow, but the duty cycle is now 90% at 6300 rpm so I am about maxed out with 40psi base pressure. Hopefully I'll be making enough power on 11 psi for a high 12x pass and mid-high 10s. Rubber efi line seems to be holding up fine. Fuel filters are clean and does not look like the e85 is putting any crud in the system. So far so good. I'm driving to a street style race this weekend to do some more tuning. Will report back if anything interesting happens.

STREETDEMON

kyle can you post some pictures of the tires mounted up please?

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Sure I plan on washing the car tomorrow so I'll snag some pics.

They're on FRONT Iroc wheels since that's the spare pair I have been using for my track tires so they will stick out a little more than actual REARs. If these toyos hold up I'm going to buy another set for my actual REAR wheels.

With the new toyos I was hoping I could use first gear on the street but unfortunately even rolling into the throttle it just blows the tires off since the boost comes in so fast. Same thing happened with my old hoosier drag radials.

The car is almost to the point where it's not as much fun to drive on the street since it picks up speed so fast it's risky because of all the cops here. That or I'll put my foot in and check a gauge for a second going 50 and the back end will start sliding out from me and I poop my pants.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Shut down a Z06 corvette today on the arm drop. Up to 11 psi now. Also beat a 600 rwhp supercharged cobra and some more nitrous stangs but no video. Made it to the last round and lost to a trailered fox body on a "hard tire." Oh and it was caged and they had little pump up sprayers with chemicals to spray on the tires and a whole pit crew posse. I'm still a little sore about loosing the last round and $300 pot. Oh well at least I had fun! I did wear my helmet this time as I was pedaling it down almost every run!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

it wasn't a crusty old grey fox was it? there are a couple of those hard tire guys that trap 115+ in the 1/8

STREETDEMON

good run. nothing like shutting down a C6 in a thirdgen!

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

LOL The one I raced last round was dark blue but there was a gray fox there on hard tire that was really fast too. They both trailered their cars in together and parked next to eachother in the pits.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Haha right! It's funny how people think z06 vettes are SOOO fast, you could hear people laughing in the video because I beat him so bad.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yeah. those are 8 second cars, so don't feel too bad. bring the car in on a trailer and having a prep crew is something you could do too, but choose not to, lol. i prefer to trailer mine in, even though you and i are probably about the same 1/4 mile performance wise. too much can go wrong to let the car sit out there while i figure out a solution to get it home.

STREETDEMON

agreed. it's not fun being broke down and leaving your baby at the track. we winch the cars on quite often after a night of racing at the dirt track. i used to scoff at the guys trailering their cars in to the dragstrip, until i learned the hard way.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

C6 Z06s ARE fast, and probably faster than you, but not with a bad driver on cold tires like in your video. I can 60' better ON FOOT than that Z06.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Oh believe me it's a concern of mine; I've been stuck with no oil pressure 150 miles from home before at ATL Dragway. I basically plan on breaking every time I go. Stock bottom end and stock rear = it is ONLY A MATTER OF TIME! LOL! Hope for the best but expect the worse is my motto. From where I live the 1/8 mile track is only 20 minutes away. I brought $100 for a tow truck if I broke yesterday. Now usually when I go to Reynolds which is about 30-40 miles away, I trailer. I HATE TRAILERING MY CAR THOUGH! I don't own a trailer so I have to borrow one and it's a freakin hassle getting it loaded and unloaded by myself.

I got nothin again't trailering, or the stangs for that matter. They played by the rules and was a fair race. Just a little sore since I was so close. My car is a 99% street car and I know I could perform the same on the drive home as I could on the track. I had a hell of a time too, that's what's most important to me. I'm just happy it made it home in one piece. Now off to do a compression test just for ease of mind haha.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

I don't know why I let your TROLL bother me... Maybe it's because even after ignoring your posts, you still come in here with that attitude. I get it dude, you're jealous and it makes you feel better to put down other people's accomplishments. You've trashed my thread up enough though. You're officially the first person added to my ignore list, so go troll someone else.

I didn't say they weren't fast. I was referring to when when nieve people act like c6 vettes are the fastest thing on the street. If you didn't have a peanut brain you probably would have understood that. I've got no doubt that people lost some money betting on that race. That's a MIN $25,000 sports car. I've always dreamed of beating a z06 vette even when I was driving a 305 car and I finally got to do it. Anyways

Here are some pics of my tires for ya streetdemon.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Toyo Proxes TQ Drag Radials in 275/45/16 on stock front IROC wheels. 25 psi

Barlow8869

iTrader: (1)

love it man ... nice work

RedRokkit

Sub'd....watching a cool build........

totally efing awesome

STREETDEMON

kyle, thanks for the pics man. i see you left some tire on the quarters

do you get any wiggle from the rear while going down the road or cornering?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

looks like it fits way better than the old 295/50/16's i ran on the same size wheels (i think you ran that size at some point too, right kyle?)

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Redrokitt, barlow, thanks yall

Yeah I'm goin for the Matt Walter look with the black lower quarters LoL! I just got tired of scrubbing them one day and just said f' it. I really need to wash the car though and it could use an orbital buffing too.

I don't notice anything funny on corners at all, they drive like stock. Even the 295/50/16s I had on stock IROCs drove fine. I've had them on my other pair of wheels for about 4 years now and no matter how many burnouts and donuts I can't wear them down! Haha I ran them on 28 psi and they still wore pretty evenly just a little more in the middle. What DID not work well though was 215/60/16 on the front. On corners they would understeer and driving it in the mountains sucked. I got them free though but now back to Falken Ziex 512 in 245/50/16 on the front.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you still got a ways to go




just wait till you get the "hehe, boi i knowd whatju bin doin in dat k-maro mmmhmmm"

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Haha dang I didn't know yours was a 2-tone! What size tire is on that 15x7? BTW your stripes are still dark as hell in that parking lot. Wish you had a video of it!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

that's a 275/60/15. works OK, but i don't ask the car to turn very fast with skinnies and a spool. i don't notice any "wiggle" but i'm not pushing them hard.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...-take-run.html

Thread from 3 years ago asking cheapest way to run 10s. LOL man I can't wait to update that thread. Stupid winter!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i think the biggest thing to report is not that you now have a 10 sec capable car, but that you've grown so incredibly much in the hobby man. you went from having to have so many people do things for you to now, you're building your own ecu, turbo system, and all. i'm very impressed with the whole thing man.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Matt, that means a lot!!
It's been a great adventure and I've learned a ton but know I'm only at the tip of the iceberg. Couldn't have ever come this far without folks like yourself giving your and that's what it's all about. At least for me, learning from other people, and helping other folks out too.