CatmanFS

I haven't kept up with this, so I'll just give you the short version. Got a 92 Z28 with a blown trans for $500. Since I had one left over from my 92 RS, it would be an easy job. Fixed a lot of misc things and swapped in the trans.

CatmanFS

Found some decent fenders and completely redid the rear drums.

CatmanFS

Got most everything nailed down and started putting the rest of the body together.

CatmanFS

So now that it's in decent shape, I found an LT1 at a decent price and nabbed it. Though it lacked the ecm and harness, this was going to be a longer project.

CatmanFS

On a side note, it's fairly easy to reverse the timing completely then this can happen.

CatmanFS

Free side exhaust. Ha. Anyway, I found an even better LT1 with a harness and ECM. This one only has like 70k on it so it was quite a steal. Also couldn't pass it up.

CatmanFS

So, this brings me to my first real point. Can the TPI accessory brackets be modified to fit the LT1? I've heard of this before, I think by modifying the water pump (grinding down the outer two bolt hole things) the TPI accessories will fit. Anyone have any experience with this? I checked all the other clearances and everything looks like it will directly bolt on. Some bolt holes don't line up, but enough of them do. Of course you'd have to move the coil and it's little buddy. Also brings in the question of the water pump and it's role in the belt routing. Later today I'll take another look and write up a few diagrams.

CatmanFS

If nobody says anything I'm just going to do it. I really think it will work, even if the water pump will just have the two bolts per side holding it on like it did on the earlier style ones. I'm still trying to work out the belt routing though.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

It's been done, (see http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...=253244&page=1 ) but . . .
the water pump ports are different as you know.
The crank pulley belt spacing is different.
There's functionally no benefit.
The above link shows his hoses going through the belt (dump some coolant to change a belt. Ugh.)
My experience with the 93-97 accessories is they work well and have a tighter AC compressor fit than the B/D-body bracket. The 94-96 B/D-body PS hoses / lines would work with your steering box.
And LT1 stuff is cheap now.

CatmanFS

The point is to keep the ac compressor in the same place and avoid cutting into the k-member. I was considering going with a tubular one but i wanted to see what would be possible before making an investment like that.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Test fit it. It will be tight, but as long as you can change the belt, you're good. Yippee if 5 minutes of a hammer saves you $$ on a k-member.

CatmanFS

Im really considering the spohn k member for this. I'm under the impression that using this will keep me from having to hammer anything. Anybody have experience with this kit?

CatmanFS

Ok, so I have some updates, and questions. I'm still seeking advice about the spohn K-member, so again if anyone has advice I'd love to hear it.

Ok so down to business. I removed the dash to gain better access to all the wiring under there, and found a nasty mess in the headlight switch wiring. I have a bunch of pinouts of the LT1 c100, c210, c220, and c230, as well as the c207 and c100 on the car. I've got a buyer for the original motor, and that will be gone by next monday or so. He stripped a harness off of a junk car, so I can play with the one I have all I want, unless someone is interested in buying. Ecm is also sold.

I've done a lot of reading and I'm under the impression that as long as the new pcm gets a few essential connections I can get her running fairly quickly. I went to a junk yard and collected the car chassis side of the essential Lt1 connectors so I can splice them in, and have a relatively plug and play type of thing going here.

I do have an important question though. The transmission connector is a 5 pin. The ECM style of the LT1 is definantly the 93, has the large square connectors. I thought that the 93 was only mated with a 700r4 or 4l60, and that the 5 pin was for the 4L60E. Anyone who can clear this up would be a great help.

Here are a few pics, including that nasty mess I found in the headlight switch. I knew something was up, because the interior lights would flicker when I tried to dim them. Glad I got that straightened out. I'll post pics of the cleaned up version in a bit.

CatmanFS

So here is the headlight wiring, all fixed up, and the full interior dash wiring. Also included is a pic of the motor as it sits now, running, everything going great. I'm about to start hacking everything to pieces, not really, and everybody is going to call me crazy until that Lt1 fires up and I peel out down the driveway for the first time haha.

dbrochard

iTrader: (3)

Nice car, and good luck with this build! I was going to build a 334 stroker for my car, but changed my mind and I will be putting in an LT1 as well. I'm going to be following this one

CatmanFS

Alright! Got the front bumper and such taken off in prep for the swap. Also, if you see the broken-ish little bolt that connects the front bumper cover and fenders and know what it is, I feel for you and your twisted arms and sore hands. This one kind of stripped out and was giving me hell. Seriously considering an alternative like a quick connect or something to replace these.

Also managed to replace the busted up door with one I had from my old car. The engine will be gone by Wednesday, so I'll start swapping in the Lt after that but have been looking over wiring schematics and searching for a sensible solution to the 5 wire tcc connector issue. Apparently the 93 700r4, or 4l60 got a 5 wire tcc connector that amounted to an additional pressure switch and a temp sensor I think?

Anyway, if anyone has tackled this before I'd love to hear what you did or didn't do with the extra wires on the connector. Thank you.

CatmanFS

Alright! After a full 24 hours of disconnecting, prying, bleeding, and sweating all over everything I've got the old engine out and sold. Bye Bye forever, I know you're going to a great home. Tomorrow I'll post pics of the aftermath and the plan of attack. I'm going to get a mockup going on the Lt and collect the various parts and pieces I need to get everything in starting condition. This is going to be a quick turn around because I've got to keep my garage open for repairs to the daily drivers. Good luck everyone out there, keep the project alive!

rdmotors

Been lurking around for awhile reading up on things. This is just what I am working on right now is a LT1 swap. Glad to see someone else is trying this out. I will keep a watch out for your progress.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Swap the internal harness with one from a 700R4

CatmanFS

What do you mean internal harness? The plug in the trans? I was considering that if just using 3 of the 5 original wires in the old style connector wasn't going to suffice.

I would need a resource for the 93 4l60 internal parts, basically, just that plug, the additional pressure switch, and the temp sensor, and a wiring diagram of it.

CatmanFS

Found an old topic by a guy with a very similar issue. Figured we could have some closure on this issue once and for all.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ml#post5922249

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

When I did it, I just swapped the harness inside the trans from my dead 700R4 to the 93 trans. Piece of cake

CatmanFS

I don't have the 93 trans but I found a donor. Will post results soon.

CatmanFS

Alright. The 92 valve body doesn't have the extra ports, supposedly the 89 or 86 back ones did though. So the plan is to nab the 93 transmission I found and just swap the whole thing in.

CatmanFS

Ok, here's an update. I was looking over the boxes of stuff I have, and I noticed a 93 style opti wasn't included. I do have a 95 style vented opti though. Since funds are short, I'm taking a gamble in thinking that the 95 opti is still good. My logic is that since it's vented it might have a better shot of still firing. I've looked into what it takes to swap out the 95 opti to the 93 so I'm pulling the cam, gear, and cover from the 95 style b-body motor I have.

I do have a small opti rebuild looking kit that came with the 93 motor, and I'm wondering if the cap, rotor, misc internal hardware is the same and can do a little refresher for the 95 opti before I put it on. Since it's not exactly new, I'll also need to make sure I can pull the codes from the 93 ECM. I believe this works the same way as the older style, and if I hook up the SES light it will read off the codes the same way.

Included is a pic of the 95 style cam freshly pulled, and the inside of the 93 intake, which I included because of how nice it looks.

CatmanFS

Alright, big update. I've been meticulously cleaning and prepping every aspect of this swap. Working on exhaust manifold air plugs, egr block off plates, and lots of other misc things. I've taken out the majority of the original TPI wiring, and am prepping the remainder to be mated with the LT1 harness. Will post updates and pics of that tomorrow.

Strick1

Just want to make sure you know that the 95 opti and the 93 opti are not inter changeable. If you go with the 95 opti, you'll have to change the timing cover as well. Also there is a little difference in the pin on the cam. And, the wiring to the 95 is a little different than the 93, but there is a wiring "pig tail" that will fix that. As far as putting the internals of the 95 into the 93 opti, I don't know if that can be done. I know it might be a cost factor, but considering the work involved with replacing an opti, I'd save and put a new one in from Chris Petrius.

Thanks for the reply on my thread.

CatmanFS

Thanks for the reply and the concern! I went through this exact thing trying to figure out what to do, luckily i had picked upa 95 lt1 with the vented opti before i found the 93. Also, it seems like the guys that had the 93 were trying to make the 93 into the vented style as well and incuded the vented style cap and rotor with the motor. So i took the cam, gear, and timing cover out of the 95, and have transplanted it into the 93. I even have the long style pigtail for it. The pic of the timing cover shows that part. Ill post up pics of the opti and wiring later. Thanks!

CatmanFS

Yeah I used the 95 opti, cleaned it up, noticed the Mitsubishi emblem on the sensor, was happy about that. Hope it works. The 93 had a vented cap and rotor and other misc extra parts. All together I was able to assemble an excellent looking vented style opti.

Included is a pic of the opti and another of the motor as it sits. Damn it looks good. Couldn't be happier.

CatmanFS

Ok, I know I haven't updated this in a while, but it's because I've been working on it the whole time!

I got the motor in, finally. I had to pull it back out twice before getting everything in order. The first time the torque converter wasn't seated all the way. It should push on and drop down once, then rotate it, and it should drop down again. The second time was a bolt broke off in the crank while trying to put the hub on. Didn't risk it, pulled the motor and took the whole thing to a machine shop. They pulled it out without having to take the engine apart. Well worth the $80.

Some advice, polish the hell out of the crank snout with some high grit 800 -1000 sand paper if it's not perfect, and do the same for the inside of the hub. If it's a little rusty it can get seized up while trying to install it. Also the b-body LT1 hub is about a half inch longer than the 93 f-body style.

Here is the motor being assembled and what I have as of right now.

CatmanFS

I really enjoy hacking at the stock car and looking for new ways to do things and here is my idea. I was looking at the 93 up coolant overflow tank and thinking about putting it in this spot under where the evap canister sits. I'm keeping the evap system just because. The idea is to chop out this panel that it sits on to fit the overflow tank down through it so that the bottom sticks out where the vacuum reservoir sits, and mount the evap canister on top of it. You can't really put it on the other side because the fill tube comes up and hits the upper frame rail. If you turned it around the battery hold down would be backwards and I'm just not happy with the fitment. Over on this side though it seems like it fits a little better and would make a nice addition to help clean up the engine bay.

Another thing is that I want to build a braket that holds the ECM and Power steering resevoir where the old coolant tank is located. I could retain the ball shaped vacuum resivoir by placing it under where the battery is located. I've deleted the AC but I think this also helps with switching the heater on and off and vents and such.

The pics explain what I'm talking about.

CatmanFS

Since the car I'm working with is a 92 TPI, the electrical stuff is very similar. I haven't seen a specific swap thread regarding this, so I'm going to post up a defacto 92 TPI to 93 LT1 swap guide regarding the wiring.

There are some interesting things regarding this specific swap. Namely, the 93 LT1 came with a 700R4 with a 5 pin TCC plug. You have a couple options with this. If you don't have access to a 93 700R4 off the camaro, which is quite specific, you probably will have to downwire the TCC. The valve bodies from 90-92 doesn't have the provisions for the extra pressure and temp switch that makes the 4 pin a 5. If you have an older 89 700R4 you might get lucky and be able to remove some threaded inserts and wire up some 93 switches into the valve body and wire it like the 93. I don't know exactly, because I was able to find a 93 700R4 out of an Fbody. Very lucky find.

CatmanFS

Alright, this might seem like a simple question, but the diagrams I have aren't helping at all. The 92 fuel pump relay has a orange(power), black(ground), green white(12v control), gray(output), and a red(prime). On the 93 LT1 there's a gray prime that goes through the ecm it looks like. The 92 diagram I have also says that a gray wire goes through the ecm, yet on the car it seems like it just routes through the oil pressure pump but it might have also gone over to the ecm. What is the purpose of these gray wires that go through the ecms? Can I just send the gray wire back through the C100 and on to the fuel pump and hook up the green white to the fuel pump relay control? Or does the ecm need this gray wire for some reason?

Strick1

My guess is that the ECM needs to know so it can set the check engine light.

CatmanFS

Im fairly certain ive got it hooked up correctly, as long as the pcm is commanding fuel through the control power source it should function normally without any added complications.

CatmanFS

Haha got it running! I planned on writing up a swap guide for this specific year/model combo but I'm just gona explain the essentials of what I did now that I know it works.

When you take the old motor/ecm harness out of your car, you basically sever any place where the ecm and motor harness goes to the car's wiring. Go slowly and label any wires you have to cut to separate the old harness. Once you take that out, you're left with a bunch of wires coming out of the c100 connector, the relays right next to it, and the C207 near where the old ecm was located.

Make sure you have accurate electrical schematics for both your new motor and your car. Honestly sometimes they're not perfect, and a little common sense can help isolate the circuits your going to need to either splice into or reconfigure. I was able to use almost all of the original wiring, changed out some fuses, added some inline fuses, and so far everything seems to be working just the way it's supposed to.

CatmanFS

So I worked more than 2 days straight, the first doing the wiring, the second getting all the hoses, wire looms, and everything hooked up. I was surprised at how much little stuff there was to do to get everything hooked up right. I had to cut and put rubber hose on a segment of the trans cooler lines to get around the accy belt. As I went I made sure that all the wires and such wasn't rubbing, or getting hot and I think it turned out really well.

Strick1

So what exactly does the new ECM run? Just the engine, i.e., the injectors, ignition, and all the sensors? What about the fuel pump? This is where I'm struggling to work out in mine. How did you work the starter system and tie in the ignition switch? So many questions? Thanks.

CatmanFS

Ecm does spark and injectors, plus other things like coolant fans and such. It gives command voltage to the fuel pump relay, and the starter has its own relay that the ign switch supplies, the vats gives it ground, so just ground the control side and youre good to go.

CatmanFS

I can give you more detailed info but i just searched the web, and these forums and figured it out. Pm me if you need help.

CatmanFS

Alright, so I put the front bumper and fenders and such on and it's starting to look like a car again heh. I was able to take a few test drives and after working out an alternator issue I was able to keep it on the road and take it out for the evening. Just a note: the 93 connector diagrams label an alternator feed to instrument cluster wire. I thought this was just for the light in the 93 cars, but it's actually the 12v power source that tells the alt to actually work. Just hooked it into the exsisting brown wire that went to the old alt and it works like a champ.

After a longer test drive I've noticed that the tcc either isn't locking up, or it's staying locked up after letting off the gas. Hitting the brakes does seem to disengage it, so I'm not sure exactly what's going on. Shifting seems smooth up to third. It seems to lag a bit before hitting third, or doesn't want to go into overdrive. I'm not entirely sure, but I know it has to do with the tcc lockup. I'll figure it out, but in the meantime here's some pics.

CatmanFS

Ok, here's a little info for you guys. Keep in mind this is not all the wires, just the relevant ones. The 94-95 years with the 4L60E is a totally different animal, and the haynes manual doesn't label this correctly for the 93. The 93 with the 700R4 is almost identical to the 92 as far as TCC, aside from the internals of the trans and the way the ECM uses those extra sensors to decide what to do.

C230 Blue 10 pin
|K|J|H|G|F|
|A|B|C|D|E|

K is TAN/BLK and is (Automatic) torque converter clutch control.
H is LT BLU/BLK and is (Automatic) TCC switched power feed.

So The way I believe this is supposed to work is that the K - Tan/BLK tcc control wire goes up to the ALDL connector. The H - LT BLU/BLK is the power source that routes through the brake switch, just like the 92.


C220 White 10 pin
|K|J|H|G|F|
|A|B|C|D|E|

G is DK GRN/WHT and is vehicle speed signal.

From what I've read the 93 ecm controls the VSS signal and I don't think the 92 even had the vss box like the older ones but I might be wrong. I believe this wire is what comes from the ecm and goes to the cluster. I keep seeing posts from guys talking about the tcc lockup having a relationship with the vehicle speed.

But the speed signal goes from the sensor, to the ecm, then this wire goes out to the dash. I don't have it hooked up because I believe the speedo in the cluster I have is busted, but I don't even think it matters because the ecm is already getting it's signal anyway.

The last thing I can think of is the TV cable being a little out of whack. I messed with getting it adjusted correctly, but something still doesn't seem right. It shifts smooth up into 3rd, but doesn't seem to want to go into 4th, and I believe that's where the TCC lockup occurs usually but I'm still not certain. I'm gona keep working at it and I'll post what I come up with.

CatmanFS

Alright, so I've been fidling with the TV cable and seem to have it mostly working correctly. I'm still not sure about the TCC. If I start getting on it the engine will rev up pretty high but it doesn't seem to be putting the power down to the road. Up to third is better than before, but it doesn't seem to want to really go into high gear. I'll keep working at this and have an update later but for now I have another idea.

Ok, since a tune right now is kind of a ways down the road, as finding a tuner guy locally that has the stuff for the 93 LT1 is probably going to be hard and costly, I'm working out a way to get rid of the codes it's throwing manually. It's throwing a 26, and a 63. Quad driver 1 and passenger O2 sensor.

The evap canister I have for the 92 has the solenoid on the canister, so I have 2 solenoids. I'm considering just wiring up both of them to the same circuit and thinking that when it commands it to open, it will open both and work just fine.

The EGR is blocked off, and I was going to just connect the solenoid to function for right now.

The air pump is long gone, and I'm thinking of a way to make the ecm think the relay is still there. Wondering of just grounding out the control wire will work, or if I'll have to rig up a phantom relay.

The 2nd 02 sensor will be resolved by welding a second 02 bung on the y-pipe near the passenger side.

Any advice on any of this is greatly appreciated.