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BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by MoJoe
Congratulations! Lots of back story in that article.
Thanks man. Kinda a weird deal. They asked for info about the car, then copy and pasted what I gave them word for word. I didn't notice any spelling mistakes lol. Fun lil story about the history though
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
I just got some amazing news this afternoon. Got some changes in store for BADNBLK... Can't wait to show you! Keep your eyes out for a new thread popping up soon!
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by BADNBLK
I just got some amazing news this afternoon. Got some changes in store for BADNBLK... Can't wait to show you! Keep your eyes out for a new thread popping up soon!
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
You're not running an AC or a heater?
I want to ditch the AC, but need to keep the heater. once i get the L98 pulled, I'll see what comes to mind. I kinda see a fabricated "plate" that screws into the firewall involved. I don't foresee a bunch of (nicely done) body fabrication like you have.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Are you currently running subframe connectors with that exhaust?
you think my Alston subframe connectors might pose a problem with the installation. they're the "inner" kind of SFSs as opposed to the more common "outter" ones.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Linson
You're not running an AC or a heater?
I want to ditch the AC, but need to keep the heater. once i get the L98 pulled, I'll see what comes to mind. I kinda see a fabricated "plate" that screws into the firewall involved. I don't foresee a bunch of (nicely done) body fabrication like you have.
What your windows not work?!!!!
I have used the a/c maybe 4-5 times in the last 10 years. I rarely drive when its so cold that I a hoodie won't take care of me, so yeah ditched! The bolt/rivet plate over the hvac box would sure make things easy.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Linson
Are you currently running subframe connectors with that exhaust?
you think my Alston subframe connectors might pose a problem with the installation. they're the "inner" kind of SFSs as opposed to the more common "outter" ones.
I've only seen pics of other peoples Alston SFC, so I really can't say whether or not they would fit. I have Spohn SFC you can see in the pic here, but no inners. I haven't felt enough flex to feel like I needed to even investigate the inner sfcs.
Originally Posted by Linson
You misunderstand. I totally am on board with ditching AC. I'm just not seeing any heater hoses or vent fan motor.
I think I got it, but didn't maybe answer clearly. Yeah there no heater hose, heater box, or blower at all. Ditched!!! I don't really drive it enough in temps where heat would be needed. Its obviously not a daily.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Linson
Are you currently running subframe connectors with that exhaust?
you think my Alston subframe connectors might pose a problem with the installation. they're the "inner" kind of SFSs as opposed to the more common "outter" ones.
I can absolutely 100% guarantee the Alston inner SFCs will cause problems with installation of the transmission crossmember. They shouldn't be an issue with the rest of the exhaust but you will either need to cut pieces from the SFC, cut pieces from the trans crossmember, or both to get everything to fit with the Alston SFCs. I ended up trimming pieces from the Hawks crossmember and shimming the entire crossmember down to lay over the Alstons where they weld to the frame rails. The Alstons are the one mod I regret doing at this point because of the issues they cause with LS swaps and the conversion transmission crossmembers.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
I can absolutely 100% guarantee the Alston inner SFCs will cause problems with installation of the transmission crossmember. They shouldn't be an issue with the rest of the exhaust but you will either need to cut pieces from the SFC, cut pieces from the trans crossmember, or both to get everything to fit with the Alston SFCs. I ended up trimming pieces from the Hawks crossmember and shimming the entire crossmember down to lay over the Alstons where they weld to the frame rails. The Alstons are the one mod I regret doing at this point because of the issues they cause with LS swaps and the conversion transmission crossmembers.
Cool. Thanks. It ain't no big deal, I guess.. I can take the Alstons off and move 'em over to the TTA, and then put some "outer" style SFCs on the Formula once all this LS conversion stuff is in place.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Brandon, are you running a standard [F-body length] drive shaft or something custom? If custom, was that necessary because of the Blackheart exhaust system?
And am I going to have to move my UMI torque arm over to The TTA as well? Will the same transmission mount torque arm work with a 4L60E - and does that exhaust system create a problem?
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
The Alstons are the one mod I regret doing at this point because of the issues they cause with LS swaps and the conversion transmission crossmembers.
Yes, but the hard top cars are very prone to cracks at the top rear corner of the windows. If you have a hard top then I'd take chassis strengthening very seriously. I only did outer subframe connectors and now my roof is showing signs of cracks after just one summer.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Yes, but the hard top cars are very prone to cracks at the top rear corner of the windows. If you have a hard top then I'd take chassis strengthening very seriously. I only did outer subframe connectors and now my roof is showing signs of cracks after just one summer.
i thought that was just a thing that was common (or universal) on hard top 3rd Gens - the appearance of cracking in that very spot. mine had that when i bough it - bone stock w/ under 30k, and it seemed like it was like that before original paint.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
going by this picture, it looks as though a set of "outer" style SFCs would fit with no interference with the exhaust.
I really like the ground clearance that that exhaust system appears to have.
Brandon, i hope that asking questions about your set up as it relates to my endeavor doesn't violate the intention of this thread or otherwise seem like a hijack. i wont be posting any pictures of my stuff on here. its just, as it happens, i'm leaning towards what you've done in some areas, most notably at the moment, the exhaust.
btw, with whatever set up i get, i am definitely ceramic coating my headers black - maybe even my entire system on the outside. that part might be a bit gratuitous, but i can probably get it done locally for about two or three hundred $$.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Yes, but the hard top cars are very prone to cracks at the top rear corner of the windows. If you have a hard top then I'd take chassis strengthening very seriously. I only did outer subframe connectors and now my roof is showing signs of cracks after just one summer.
True. But I would recommend the outer style SFCs over the inner style. And a well built cage if the car is going to be raced heavily.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
True. But I would recommend the outer style SFCs over the inner style. And a well built cage if the car is going to be raced heavily.
I disagree on the outers over the inners. The inners actually tie the front and rear frame rails together whereas most outers tie to the rear LCA mounts. Installing both outers and inners is what I would recommend. but if I had to choose one id do the inners.
If you want the outers to work better you need to weld them to the outer rockers not just the mounting pads
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by prossi
I disagree on the outers over the inners. The inners actually tie the front and rear frame rails together whereas most outers tie to the rear LCA mounts. Installing both outers and inners is what I would recommend. but if I had to choose one id do the inners.
If you want the outers to work better you need to weld them to the outer rockers not just the mounting pads
I do agree with installing a well built cage!
I like the way the inners tie everything together as you stated. But the forward mount point on the inners interferes with the transmission crossmember on everything but a stock vehicle. The conversion crossmembers for T56, 4L60E, 4L80E, etc all have issues with clearance around the front mount point for the inners. Even the torque arm relocation crossmembers for factory transmissions have clearance issues with the inner style front mount point.
For the swap to the T56, I had to shim the crossmember down by the thickness of the inner SFC mounting point to reduce the amount of cutting required and still had to trim. This picture doesn't show the piece I had to cut off the SFC mount as well on the driver's side where I couldn't trim the crossmember for fitment.
If the car only had the outer style SFCs, there would have been no fitment issues with the conversion crossmember. Hence, my statement that I would only use outer style SFCs in the future to avoid these fitment issues.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Linson
Brandon, did you have to go with a shortened driveshaft or is it stock length?
and what torque arm are you using - and where does it attach to?
Sorry was a busy day yesterday.
I'm running my stock length 3rd gen Aluminum driveshaft with no issues. With my ride height and the old LT t56 the shaft was nearly bottomed out and I went through a few output seals, but with the Holley engine mounts moving the engine/trans forward 3/4" +/- the fitment of the transmission is better, and the shaft is now in a much more comfortable position.
I'm running a Founders Adj Torque arm. The Holley mount has a bracket to mount the stock style bushing off the transmission to the mount. This really shined for me as I would not have to figure out a different T/a or modify this one to create a new mount system for it. Easy Peasy!
I'm all good with the questions and comments on this thread. Keeps it in front of people, and everything has been relevant. I'm all good with it.
I wish I could feel comfortable chiming in with more input on the SFC discussion, but the Spohns I have are the only ones I have ever installed, and have no negative experience to try and guide anyone, so I'll just let that discussion continue haha!
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
I like the way the inners tie everything together as you stated. But the forward mount point on the inners interferes with the transmission crossmember on everything but a stock vehicle. The conversion crossmembers for T56, 4L60E, 4L80E, etc all have issues with clearance around the front mount point for the inners. Even the torque arm relocation crossmembers for factory transmissions have clearance issues with the inner style front mount point.
For the swap to the T56, I had to shim the crossmember down by the thickness of the inner SFC mounting point to reduce the amount of cutting required and still had to trim. This picture doesn't show the piece I had to cut off the SFC mount as well on the driver's side where I couldn't trim the crossmember for fitment.
If the car only had the outer style SFCs, there would have been no fitment issues with the conversion crossmember. Hence, my statement that I would only use outer style SFCs in the future to avoid these fitment issues.
Can you please get me a picture of this installed?
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by prossi
Can you please get me a picture of this installed?
This was taken during the transmission swap. All of the cuts and shims were designed to retain as much metal on the crossmember while still clearing the points where the inner SFCs weld to the frame rails.
Brandon, now you can picture all the things those mount points for the SFC would be in the way of on your build.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
This was taken during the transmission swap. All of the cuts and shims were designed to retain as much metal on the crossmember while still clearing the points where the inner SFCs weld to the frame rails.
Brandon, now you can picture all the things those mount points for the SFC would be in the way of on your build.
I can easily see how that would be a problem at the front. Still interested in seeing where the run along the floor. Take pics of those rear shocks
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by BADNBLK
I can easily see how that would be a problem at the front. Still interested in seeing where the run along the floor. Take pics of those rear shocks
There aren't any issues with the SFC and the rear shocks. At the rear the SFC attaches to the front of the rear frame rail forward of the lower control arm mount. The exhaust actually runs inside the SFCs. The front mount point is the closest to the center line of the car and it angles out to where the LCA mounts to the body.
And the rear coilovers mount in the same place as the factory shock. No changes there.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Beater79TA
But you still want pictures.... ok... I'll see about taking a picture or two
If you are not under there with a camera don't worry about it. I'm sure they fit like everyone elses, and their bracket design is probably the same. You are the only one with these affcos and was interested in them, and the fit with spring clearance on their bracket is of interest to me. But no need to make a special trip under the car for me. It was more of a reminder to the FB conversation about getting me a couple pics.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by BADNBLK
If you are not under there with a camera don't worry about it. I'm sure they fit like everyone elses, and their bracket design is probably the same. You are the only one with these affcos and was interested in them, and the fit with spring clearance on their bracket is of interest to me. But no need to make a special trip under the car for me. It was more of a reminder to the FB conversation about getting me a couple pics.
They fit like everyone elses. And I do have pictures. Just not on the computer I have with me while on business trips.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by prossi
If you want the outers to work better you need to weld them to the outer rockers not just the mounting pads
That is standard operating procedure and what is recommended by Spohn.
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Yes, but the hard top cars are very prone to cracks at the top rear corner of the windows. If you have a hard top then I'd take chassis strengthening very seriously. I only did outer subframe connectors and now my roof is showing signs of cracks after just one summer.
My Coupe as purchased, had a V6 and the cracks were evident even then. Low miles too.
Now, since having installed the Spohn perimeter style SFCs (stitched to the rockers about every 12" or so), the cracks have not propagated and seem to have stabilized and this is after about 45 000 street/strip miles. Keep in mind that this is with only about 400 ft/lbs torque and an automatic. It does however see lots of racing on bias slicks. Busted a 9 bolt over the years but the cracks, although they need to be addressed, don't appear to be getting any worse. This year may tell the tale though as power output, stall speed and traction have all gone up (or I should say traction will go up once the new drag radials arrive).
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
I trimmed both the SBCs & the hawks piece to avoid using shims.Pass side, similar on the Dr. side.Though not as much.FWIW, recently added outer SBCs (GW) too.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Is that Holley/Hooker's swap crossmember?
I'm adapting a unusual 4L60 in place of the more traditional style and plan to use Hooker's
71222005HKR. Although it's a Gen 1 SBC and a 4L60 that has the same mounting dimensions (bellhousing to rear extension housing located mount) as a TH400. Toddoky has been kind enough to answer a couple of PMs and it should work with minimal re-fitment.
I'd like to see few more installed pics and try to get an idea of the clearance for the exhaust. I'll have to go through your picture collection (!).
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by skinny z
Is that Holley/Hooker's swap crossmember?
I'm adapting a unusual 4L60 in place of the more traditional style and plan to use Hooker's
71222005HKR. Although it's a Gen 1 SBC and a 4L60 that has the same mounting dimensions (bellhousing to rear extension housing located mount) as a TH400. Toddoky has been kind enough to answer a couple of PMs and it should work with minimal re-fitment.
I'd like to see few more installed pics and try to get an idea of the clearance for the exhaust. I'll have to go through your picture collection (!).
Yeah I'm not sure how many other installation pics I took. I was kinda in time crunch mode at this point in the build. If there is one, I probably posted it.
Re: BADNBLK's 91 Z28 LS1 swap... Engine + much more :)
Originally Posted by Zach/90\irocZ
I wish but me being in military aka navy makes it kinda hard lol its out of bounds for regular weekend
when is it ?
Its May 5th, 6th, and 7th. Put in for time off if you can man. This should be the biggest event on the west coast if it has attendance/participation like any of the original event does. And its Vegas!!!!!!
12-02-2016, 01:46 PM
