customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Depending on your meter you might not be able to pick up the coil trigger which is why I'm saying squirt a smidge of starting fluid in the motor and it might start up. I'm more old school to verify things even with meters and such. Even if I didn't get coil signal I would still verify with the starting fluid. Only bc its so easy to ignite that you will find out real quick wether or not your getting spark. If it doesnt work then you know its spark related for sure since the fuel issue can be determined with the starting fluid. Plus it literally takes 2 sec to squirt and crank lol. And if it fires your going to be a little happy that their is hope of it running.

Just saying quickest way to find no spark is starting fluid, if no start then you only wasted 2s and like $0.25 in fluid. Since its ether and already in mist form even a weak spark will ignite it. No Start with fluid = absolutely no spark and theirs your main issue. Verify fuel flow if it runs on starting fluid but dies right after.

Good luck!

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Gotcha didn't realize I might not be picking up the signal. I have mainly been using a noid light. I guess I'll give starter fluid a shot. Been trying to focus on what I know is wrong so I don't drive myself crazy.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Yea its going to be a short duration since its coil on plug. Might be able to see it with a timing light. Well we know it wont start lol... so all you need is fuel, air, and spark to hear something. Starting fluid will give you the fuel and air you should have already lol. Even if the system is way out it will and should still fire even if it sounds bad thus saying you have spark and then you can cross it off the list.

I thought I read that if you change out the crank/cam sensor that you need to do a relearn on the PCM? Something to do with new sensor/or signal relearn when stuff is changed out. Also did you mess with the TPS or anything with all the stuff you did?

Idk what you can see on your scanner but TPS position should be within range which for me in .5-.7v I think. I dont think oil pressure matters as the one at the back of the valley is for the gauge. I deleted mine and haven't had any issues with mine running. Really all the motor needs is crank/cam signal, TPS, coolant temp,IAT (MAF if still being used), and MAP... thats about it for sensors to run. You might want to reach out to pocket and see if he can point you in the right direction. I used LT1swap.com to do my harness mods.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

I haven't read anything on it (the crank sensor), but I'll look into it. It was doing the same thing before I changed it, which is why I changed it, but who knows.

I did get a different throttle body, but should still be stock with the sensors on it. Have the old one, I guess I could change it out. I've been told the only sensor that would keep it from starting is the Crank sensor, or oil level? I'll see if the TPS is in my scanner, I think it was?

Also changed MAF/IAT to the LS7 style, but computer was.. supposedly tuned so it would at least run with this set up.

I used LT1swap as well as a lot of the info Pocket and others have posted over the years.

I don't wanna bug Jon too much. But I'm gonna be out of options here soon lol. Appreciate all your help man.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Gotcha, FWIW...
The Crankshaft Position (CKP) sensor sends pulses to the PCM as the reluctor wheel teeth rotate past the CKP sensor. The PCM uses the CKP pulses to synchronize the ignition and fuel injector operation, and to time the interval between each CKP pulse. The PCM determines when an excessive change in crankshaft speed occurs by comparing each new time interval with the previous interval. A misfire causes an unexpected change in the crankshaft speed. A certain amount of acceleration/deceleration is expected between each firing stroke, but if the crankshaft speed changes more than an expected amount, the PCM interprets this as a misfire. The interval between CKP sensor pulses is extremely small. At high engine speeds, slight variations in the following components make misfire detection difficult:

Crankshaft
Reluctor wheel
CKP sensor
The PCM learns variations during the Crankshaft Position System Variation Learning Procedure. The PCM compensates for these variations when performing detect misfire calculations. Only a scan tool can command the PCM to perform the Crankshaft Position System Variation Learning Procedure again.
Perform the learning procedure after the following actions:

A PCM replacement
Any operation or repair involving the crankshaft, the CKP sensor, or the CKP sensor to reluctor wheel gap relationship.
An engine replacement.
The ignition switch is in the ON position until the battery is drained.


FWIW, this is lifted directly from the GM service manual. I was under the impression that EFILive could do a CASE relearn as well? Hopefully someone familiar with Live can chime in and verify.


Most of the time a relearn is not needed but new sensors can be an issue. Has to do with the distance from the reluctor wheel. ALso their is alot on the net about cheaper autozone etc sensors being bad 70% of the time causing issues. Best bet is to throw the stock one back in and hope bc you disturbed it you dont need to do a relearn. Supposidly the new tuners like EFIlive and HPT can do a relearn as well. Most mail order tunes will require crank relearns etc due to swapping info out. But it might not be your problem so dont freak... just posting the info I quickly found.

TPS voltage and IAC are very important to idle, TPS for just about everything lol. TPS voltage should be in scanner, get that within spec if it isn't.

But you still have issues with the injectors either way. Just trying to help ya out.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Well it was a total rebuild.. so I guess that could be it. Even with the old sensor. I don't have the tool to check the pulse from the CPS so I dunno how I can determine if that needs to be done or not. I'll try starter fluid, and start looking at why I have power on my injector command wire. Then add this to the list lol. Need to get the aldl where it is not shutting off either. But whatever is doing that might be my issue as well..

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Welp I guess after I fixed the power wires I was getting spark but not fuel. Turns out I rewired the racetronix relay back up incorrectly after I ran all the wiring. Thought I was hearing the pump but I guess it was just the relay going bonkers.




Runs real good. I let it circulate oil for about 10 minutes and warm up. Idle got real good and it sounds real mean even though you can't really tell from the horrible sound in the video. Didn't hear fans come on but it wasn't hot either? Didn't see any leaks anywhere, knock on wood.. Fuel guage worked before it started but after it ran for a couple minutes it pegged. Have had wonky issues with the gauges when the car sat for too long so hopefully nothing came loose on the tank. I can deal with small stuff like that though. Just hope everything stays smooth as far as it actually moving on it's own power lol.

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

Congrats brother! Sucks to beat your head over something as "simple" as re-wiring a relay. Just glad its up and going. I'm in for better videos too! lol

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Figured I would have some quirks to clean up with as much as I was doing and rushing it. Unfortunately it was stuff that kept it from running. Should have picked this out sooner but I had stuff that def needed to be re done anyways. Just glad it is running right now. Thank you for all your support.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Congrats! now clean it up lol. Sucks when its something stupid that you screwed up lol but it is what it is.

R13_Braz

Woot!!

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Lol yea I have a lot of cleaning to do. I'd rather screw it up myself and learn from it than pay someone to do it. So I can't complain over mistakes I've made, just figure it out and move on. Thank you for your help.

Heck yea!

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Changed the oil, bled the rear brakes again and did a victory lap around the neighborhood last night. Holy crap, this thing is wild, and loud! I saw at least three guys standing on their front porch when I was driving through. Not sure if I was getting leers for being too loud or if they wanted to see the car lol. Once it hits about 2k it sounds like there isn't much muffler left.

Fuel gauge went back to normal. I'm not getting speedo though. Not a huge deal, but I'd like to be able to tell the officer how fast I was actually going.

I connected R50 straight to I believe pin C on the VSS but I might have switched C and F since they are both brown. Do I need to go back and connect C to F on the VSS and then run R50 to pin D on the C100 for some reason? Would that not just be extending the signal out and running another splice for no reason?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

No idea on the speedo, sorry man. I dont mess with the factory stuff. I was smart and went GPS speedo from speedhut and never have to worry about tire or gear changes etc. Perfect all the time.

Is your tach reading correct? I only ask bc LS PCMs use 4cyl outputs due to ignition setup. Stock 3rd gen tachs are setup for 8cyl signals otherwise your tach will be 1/2 off all the time.

Dual exhaust will do that lol... i had dual 3" and tried my best to quiet it down. Now I run single 4" and its a bit loud but very quiet at idle but I run 2 mufflers as I knew it was going to be loud. Couldnt imagine it with 1 or no mufflers. I might go single 3" but not sure how that will affect performance without a cutout. Prob will leave it as is tho. Add as many mufflers/resonators as possible if you want to quiet things down.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

GPS speedo sounds easier, but I'm sure I'm pretty close to it working anyways.

Tach very well could be off, it sure as hell sounds like it. If so I'm pretty sure I seated the rings last night Is that supposed to be changed in the tune?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yes, the tach signal can be adjusted in the PCM. Stock is 6/6 = 4cyl mode output. I think 2/2 = 8cyl mode output. Otherwise you need to buy a tach converter, or tuning software to change it. Very easy to do and takes 2s but its getting the access needed and the cost associated with it. 2k and it being very loud doesnt seem right lol... you were prob doing 4k

what was it showing at idle on the tach?

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Idle starts about 1200 and drops to 800 IIRC, which is why I was initially thinking it was correct, but it's damn loud (this is fine tho). Computer has a "base tune" for the cam and swap, but I'm not sure what all they did. I'm taking it back for a dyno when I get it buttoned up, so just need to make sure they do all the stuff I need. If it is running 1/2 rpm, it is getting to 4k real damn quick, not sure, but I didn't take it up over 2500ish last night anyways. Basically just ran around in 1st gear at diff rpms to try and seat the rings a bit.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

They might have already made the change. the 1200-800 rpm seems about right. If you were seeing 400rpm hot idle i would think they didn't change it.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

I'll double check again tonight, it might drop down even further when it gets real warmed up. Base tune is always a little wonky so who knows.

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

Where is the rest of the videos of this thing running around setting off car alarms and such?

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

I'll try to take one this weekend. Trying not to run it around too much with the wiring all out. I took it around the neighborhood again last night again tho. I think the tach is off cause it did finally get down around 500 for the idle. So what I was thinking was stock car noises at 2k is really 4k and sounds about right. It is pig rich and a little hard to drive right now, but eventually it'll get a proper tune.

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

That will make a big difference in the sound from 2k to 4k lol! Look forward to it man.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You're up and going, that's great!

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Yea she is movin. Had to pull up your thread a few times while I was under the car scratching my head, so thank you for all your in depth work in your thread.

Car really wants to stall cause tune is so rich. I was finally able to let the clutch out on a 60 degree hill last night without stalling tho. After declaring victory I then stalled it on about a 5 degree incline because I wasn't paying attention lol.

Got the speedo working, had connected to the wrong brown wire off the old speedo box. Just need to run AC wiring still, AC itself, swap wheel rings/tires, loom it, and then I have a few months worth of cleaning lol.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

No big updates, been out of town a bit. Finally getting back on it though, got all the AC wiring done over the weekend. Now I can tape up the harness and loom it. Then hook up the compressor and put the air box back in. Only thing left to do aside from that is hook up the heater core and valve, and get the dyno done..



Oh.. and clean it, lots of cleaning lol.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

A 92 Z28 shouldnt have a buffer box at all. PCM R50 (speedo output) goes directly to C207 pin D. From there it goes directly to the speedo. Same for 90-92 V6 cars

90-92 TBI cars and 86-89 birds have to locate the buffer box and jump pins C&F together. R50 to C207 pin K. In a nut shell this is directly connecting the PCM to the speedo using factory dash wires

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

It started life as a TBI car. Shhh don't tell anyone.

I figured the speedo out though. I had soldered the two browns together originally and then when I went to fix it and directly wire it up I didn't know which one was which. Just had to switch the wire. All the gauges are working good accept the fuel has been a little wonky. I can't remember if I soldered the eyelet for the ground or just crimped it. I'm assuming this is my issue but need to get back underneath it.

WTR388

I have the speedhut gauges, and the back lighting would almost flicker, it's hard to notice but it bothered me at night, I thought I had a loose connection somewhere behind the dash.
I had a bit of a grounding issue that would periodically not let the starter turn, I knew where the issue was, and I could usually pop the hood and get it going, but I get fed up with that and fixed it and my gauge flicker went away!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Speed hut gauge lighting sucks! Dim as hell. I have the white lighting (suppose to be the brightest) and black face and while I love the quality of the gauges I hate the lighting dimness.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

I assume it is a ground on the level sending unit, but I grounded it to the body where the original plug is on the outside of the back seat. So I have to get under it to make sure I have good contact, no loose wires etc.. It works 80% of the time and then pegs randomly. Just started doing it, not real worried.


Have bigger issues now. Was cleaning up wiring last night and noticed one primary hasn't started coloring up yet, oops. Pulled the plug, it is getting spark. Injector has ignition power and I hear an audible click when I ground out the computer side of the plug. Checked for continuity on that wire back to the computer and it is good. I'm assuming it is just clogged. Probably just going to buy an extra injector and replace this one. If it is just clogged then I have an extra. Might just pull em all and clean em though, dunno.



So bad news it's not working great, just figured it was the tune, but good news I was happy driving it before, and now it will be faster with hopefully an easy fix.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Aaaand, just a clogged injector, nothing to see here. Guess I will pull them all and clean them over the weekend. Thinking I'm going to go ahead and get some 42#ers before the tune since these should be well over there duty cycle.

Crazy how little difference there is with one cylinder not firing on this thing. I guess rich tune and high compression just keep it spinning. Can barely even tell much difference now that I know it was off. Cam actually sounds lopier lol.

R13_Braz

If you are going to go bigger, wait until you get to your tuner if you plan on driving over there lol. You'll flood the motor if you swap and then drive without adjusting it.

Very glad to see it was something simple! You've had enough headaches as it is.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Yea, either swap them out there, or just let them do it. Still a little confused on the issue there. The injector was definitely clogged and I was definitely getting spark before. It was running good and went on a ride last night and then the same cylinder started misfiring. Get home and check it out and the coil isn't firing, switched the coil and it fires. Not sure how I can have a bad injector and a bad coil on the same cylinder, and the only wiring that is shared are the ign and ground commons that the whole side shares. I didn't do anything funky with that part of the wiring, just left the stock in tact.

But working with a new coild, and now I have a fuel leak lol. It looks like it is just a loose connector by the fuel filter so hopefully no big deal, just didn't want to crawl under it and get soaked in gas last night.


Got all the wiring wrapped up over the weekend, still need to loom it and tuck it up in a few spots. Need to extend the headlight etc wiring so I can tuck it up under the fender rail and put nicer loom on it as well. Starting to get there, no more spaghetti.

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

So many wires to hide!!!!

R13_Braz

Confused on why you can't swap the injectors and then drive?

In a nutshell, the PCM thinks it's one size. If you go bigger injectors without adjusting the tune, the PCM is going to continue to think it was the smaller size, and it's going to modulate the flow the same. But because the injectors are bigger, it's going to flow more than what the computer thinks it's flowing, thus flooding the cylinders. Trickle-down effect will cause it to go rich/lean way more, and be unable to keep up.

If you already knew this, my bad. lol.

As for your coil/injector issue, that IS strange. I've had similar issues happen, but the only way I fixed it was to swap them out with good known parts.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Lol, Yes! All the stuff on the back should pretty much tuck under the firewall/brake booster/air box etc.. The others running by the rails will be visible, but loomed up nice and pretty. I don't have your skills of wizardry and patience lol. Some day I'll have to check out your car and see where you ran all this stuff. I'm guessing underneath your intake is pretty busy

Yep good on the injectors. I was under the impression stock was 28#, but these are actually only 24# which was 99-00 only for some reason. So going to a 42# is a looot more fuel, and it is already running rich at idle at least.

All the coils were new and the injectors were on the running engine before. I guess one could have been clogged or might have just gummed up from sitting with fuel in it. My fault, planned to clean them but ran out of time, a brand new coil shouldn't crap out that quick, but it wouldn't be the first time. Just odd it was the same cylinder..




Started messing with the fuel yesterday. Right by the stock filter I made an adapter with a -6an female fitting and flaired the stock hard metal line on one side and then the bendable stuff on the other side with another -6an with a male to male in the middle. I could see fuel coming out of here and it was coming off of the side with the softer bendable line. I tightened it a tad and it stopped, tightened a little more to make sure it was snug and it started leaking again but got it set. The hard metal (stock line) side I tightened up more, loosened up some and tightened it back and there was no change.

The engine is running good, so that is a plus for the time being. But went back to double check the line after it was running a bit and fuel was pouring out off the top of the tank after it ran a bit. My assumption after messing with the one fitting I can get to is that the bendable line is not hard enough to torque down on the harder metal AN fittings as it seems that ALL of them must be leaking. That or the outlets on the pump busted. But just judging from the one I had access to I was going to have to pull the tank and replace them anyways. Really lame, did all this extra stuff to make sure I didn't have any janky crimp connectors on the lines and ends up the harder permanent connections work even worse.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thats a crazy little fuel setup lol. Why are you running everything at the top of the tank? Means if you have an issue you need to yank the tank (like your fuel leaks). Im not an advocate of the trap door mod but I just swapped my stock original to the car fuel tank for a 91 firebird stock fuel tank and it was an absolute nightmare to get back in. Hopefully No need to pull the tank for a long time with a fresh 340 stealth pump.

Do yourself a favor and redo those fuel lines and bring the connections down to the frame rails. If it leaks you just crawl under and diagnose the problem and tighten/change things as needed.

Idk what the "bendable" stuff is but if your referring to the brake/fuel line thats easy to bend (alloy/copper like) then that stuff is more than adequate for that usage. I would be looking at the quality of your flares for the leak points. Those AN tube nuts are suppose to be great for hardline/high pressure stuff but the flares need to be perfect esp if not using aluminum tubing. I personally am a huge advocate for pushlock hose. Most of my fuel system is pushlock (250psi burst is more than adequate), it never leaks and takes 2 sec to make a connection (no more braided for me). Just make sure you get a fuel rated pushlock hose (fragola, aeroquip etc).

Anyway I would put the return line T you have down on the frame rail. Im not even sure how that design will allow enough fuel pressure to make it to the rails if the return is Tee'd in an open circuit... I get how excess pressure will bleed right back to the tank but that excess pressure is suppose to be regulated by a regulator. Seems like your running a dead headed/non return system to the engine and excess is returned to the tank at this point. I'm sure it works but its not optimal as you can't regulate all the fuel in the line from this point back to the engine.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

The only extra on the top is the T. Which I thought would be fine the way I was doing it. But I'm planning on buying pre made hose, running the feed to the filter, then a t after the filter which will have one go to the fuel rail and then other back to the regulator on the pump. I'll still have the two connections to the pump on top of the tank, so hopefully those never leak lol.

Yes bendable brake line, I thought it would work great too. However the two flairs I did on the harder stock line are working like magic and apparently every single one on the softer bendable brake line is leaking. Same process and tool to do the flairs, all using the same AN tube nuts. What is the out lire?

The regulator in the 4th gen tank is on the pump. So that second line to the right is regulating the pressure internally in the pump assembly. Most guys have the T coming back after the filter which is what I'm going to change to. Guys running the thirdgen tank have to run an external regulator. I don't see why the location of the return matters as long as it is regulated, only difference now is fuel coming back into the tank will be filtered. Like below accept right now planning on running braided -AN line.

I'll look into the pushlock, are you not worried about something grabbing those and pulling them off tho?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Gotcha, that extra T is adding 3 extra leak points lol. The 2 fittings at the top their is no way around and they should be fine as just about everyone with a 4th gen tank needs to use them lol.

I do love that alloy brake line. IF i didn't spend time and money on SS line for the cross member front brakes I would have used that. I needed to make a new line after adding roll control solenoid and made all my new lines with that alloy stuff and it was dreamy, flared like butter! I would have thought the softer stuff would have sealed better being so malleable. Thats weird. Did you verify none of the flares split being that its so soft? or cracked? pull the tube nuts and sleeves and verify next time you take it apart. My dad bought a hydraulic brake flaring tool that can do any flare ever including push lock oring fittings like on the 4th gen tank. Ive only used it once as he got it after I needed it (of course). Other than that you could use annealed aluminum line or SS but Aluminum needs to be supported frequently as it gets brittle quickly with movement.

GM put the regulator in the tank to save costs Im assuming but I thought they required the bypass regulator/filter found on the vettes? thats very popular with LS swaps seen here https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...fPcaAspv8P8HAQ

If GM put it in the tank its to save costs or running another line to the engine for the return. Dead head systems are basically what most current car manufactures run... doesnt make them the best systems tho. Personally the return in the tank has a flaw in my opinion. The Fuel from that T to the motor isn't regulated since the regulator is before the engine/fuel rails. This means pressure fluctuations aren't controlled/adjusted quickly. This is why most car manufactures run the regulator on the fuel rail at the end before it goes back to the tank, that way the fuel from the pump to the regulator (pump to fuel rails and regulator) is completely controlled by the regulator and it can make adjustments quickly, then send the unused fuel back to the tank. Dead head systems don't allow this to happen. Not to mention the fuel just sits in the line for a longer period thus retaining any extra heat it picks up along the way. Deadhead systems are not peformance fuel systems and heat up the fuel more than a proper return system. (see attached pic) yours is the system on the bottom and I'm talking about the top one (thats how I ran mine)

Changing to a return style requires a external regulator and fuel line back to the tank. IF you got the filter/regulator I posted a link to above from summit it has the regulator built into the filter and makes it stupid easy to run a return system. If you decided to boost the motor you need a boost referenced regulator.

Pull the hose off a pushlock fitting? lol if you use the hose and fittings you will literally have to cut the hose off the fitting to get it off. It grips is that well. The hose seal is 100% every time to the fitting and then the AN should seal like a normal AN. Like I said under 250psi it will never leak. I use it on cooling system stuff, fuel system, hydroboost power steering return lines (2000psi hydraulic hose for pressure side) I've never had a leak. If your not a weakling u spit on the hose or fitting barb and just push it on all the way and your done. I don't use any of the tools as its very easy for me. You don't need any clamps or anything, to get it off you need to cut the hose the length of the fitting barb and pry it off. you dont need the ORB fitting in the pic.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

So I have now found out lol. Would have thought I would have been good with METAL line, but I guess not.

Dunno man, maybe from vibrations? Has been idling in the garage I dunno how long and put about 30 miles on it without issues. Strange it would just start now. Didn't want to wreak of gas the rest of the week so I'll pull everything this weekend and see what is up.

Vettes don't have the regulator on the tank, it is in the filter. Most guys doing that are running the thirdgen tank and use the filter instead of changing tanks or running an adjustable regulator.

Meh just moves it down a bit, and duplicates the regulator on the tank. I think I will move the T down past the filter so it is regurgitating filtered fuel and doesn't clog up the regulator.

Good to know, thank you for your help. Undecided right now, but need to order something by tomorrow if I'm going to get it fixed this weekend.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

They deadhead for emissions reasons, not for cost. Not returning hot fuel back to the tank prevents excess fuel vapor building in the tank so the evap doesn't have to work as much and less vapor to escape when you fill the tank.
GM also has a provision in the ECM for the pressure drop from the pump to the rail. If you look at a truck vs. car config the fuel pressure is constant on a truck system but has a curve for the deadhead car system. Also, GM has now gone to PWM for the fuel pump now, I believe. The ECM modulates the pump to keep the pressure up at the rail and also to keep the bucket full. This saves the pump from heating the fuel in the bucket/tank

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Well still not positive what the issue was with the hard lines. If you look at the comparison with the softer line (left) and the harder line you can see a slight color change of where the contact with the AN fittings is. The softer line on the left was only making contact right around the edge of the flair, while the harder line on the right has pretty good surface area contact. It looks to me like the tube nut was pulling the sleeve up on the flair causing it to pinch instead of pulling the flair to the fitting to make good contact. All the different lines are consistent with these two.



Now time to make new fuel line. I decided to just go ahead and run all AN from the tank to the rail. That way it will limit my number of connections and possible leaks. Also give me more options for routing the line.

After a little struggling with a few of the SS ends I came up with an idea. Throw these little zip ties on the end and pull them all the way to edge and it keeps the braid together. Then just push the fitting right on. Made this super easy.



I found these snazzy little caps that allow you to check the ends for leaks. This side is the cap and the other has a air check valve in it. You torque these to spec and then fill it with air, and stick the end in some water. If you see bubbles you got leaks.



This is the filter set up with the return going through the filter and back to the tank. I ran a 90* fitting on the open part of the T and ran that line through the frame rail and then straight up to the fuel rail. Borrowed the idea from BADNBLKs car




Got everything set up and was super happy with my work, will get some better mounting clamps at some point but no biggie. However...




Now the fuel pump isn't working!?! Relay comes on and clicks off was it is supposed to, fuel guage is working so the plug on the pump didn't come off. The only think I can figure is there is a release on the power line going to the pump that I guess could have popped off, that or the pump has vapor lock, or just randomly decided to stop working. Either way... I have to pull the friggin tank again.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

The hardline (softer one) looks like the tube nut was pulling it and stretching the tubing vs going over the flare and sealing. The steel line while stiffer allowed the tube nut to slip over the flare more and clamp on the flare end. Interesting.

Nice job with the lines. If those aren't teflon braided then they are going to stink (smell like gas) and run the risk of collapsing on the inside with no warning. Just a heads up! This is why I run the pushlock but I also have braided on my car for a few years with no issues.

An hose assembly is s PITA! Nice trick with the zip tie... I usually do a couple layers of electrical tape when I cut the hose, the tape holds it all together for assembly. both work on the same principle.

Fuel pump lol. What pump is it? Stock wiring? Crawl under the tank and pull the 3 pin weather pack connector off the bulkhead. Purple is gas tank sender signal, black is ground and grey is pump 12v. Put a meter on the black and grey and set for 12v with a long enough extension so you can see it when you turn the key (2 people make it much easier lol) turn the key and see if you get the 12v 3-5s prime signal. If your getting the 12v but no pump then your pump is gone or you got a bad connection in the tank. If you didn't get 12v then your problem lies before the tank. Not sure how the 4th gen tank differs wiring wise but should still only be 3 or 4 connections compared to the 3rd gen 3 connections.

R13_Braz

I vote connection in the tank. I tested mine before installing the tank, and it worked. After going through all the hassle of bolting EVERYTHING back up, tried testing the whole fuel system to make sure no leaks/fuel going to the bay and nothing. Turns out, something moved inside the tank on reinstall and bumped the connector, and I had to take everything out... again.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Yep, that is what I think too.

Thanks, there were plus' and minus to both situations. If I had gone with pushlock I would not have run it all the way up front and just re done the back side and adapted into the stock hard line, which then went back up into an AN hose and fitting ect... I decided it was best just to do the whole fuel lines in one type and be done with it.

I wrapped it in tape to cut it, but it still popped out and frayed a bit. So I left it taped, put the zip tie on, then pulled the tape and pulled the zip tie up to push the slightly frayed braid together. Worked great.


Racetronix pump with the hotwire kit. I pinned the relay last night. It has power coming out of the relay to the pump when the pump is supposed to be priming. Fuel gauge is also working correctly. There are 4 pins on the pump connection, FP power, FL signal, and a ground for both.

There is an extra disconnect on the hotwire kit power line between the relay and the pump connection. The only thing I can think is that came disconnected when I put the tank back in, or somehow a pin pulled out of the connector at the pump which isn't likely. That or something in the tank came disconnected from all the moving around? I had to mount it a couple times to measure for lines etc.. so who knows.

I wouldn't think the pump has magically died while doing all of this as it is new and working fine before, but who knows. Hopefully get the tank pulled again tonight, put another 5 gal in it yesterday cause it was low, so it should be even more fun this time around. Luckily I can now diagnose it with the tank out since I have bendy lines, will just have straight pipes shooting at me if it does start to run, since I have to pull the exhaust to pull the tank, lol.


Could be man. Was working fine before. I did all the repinning ect on the pump and the connections were good, and it was working fine, just pumping gas to other places than the injectors lol. It could have come back out with bouncing this thing around when removing and installing the tank several times. Luckily it is in the garage and didn't come off when hitting some bumps on the road if that is the case.. This will be pull #3 on the tank. It is much easier than the thirdgen tank, to get in and out, but still have to pull the exhaust/panhard/shielding etc..

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Why couldn't you run pushlock all the way? You can run that any distance you want and it doesnt have the same restrictions as regular rubber EFI hose. Pushlock is designed to be run at any length. Just saying, it would have been cheaper too. I currently run 10ft of -10AN pushlock as my return from the regulator back to the tank, then run -6an braided from the tank to the firewall 40 micron pre filter and then pushlock to the rails and back to the regulator. The -6an braided stuff gives off a noticable fuel smell and I can wait to get that stuff off!

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

I could have, but wanted to keep my shiny stuff up in the engine bay. Jaded I know, but 3 months of polishing a block does things to your head, lol. I got the Russell Pro Race hose. It is lined, but not PTFE, so hopefully no stink. With the way I routed I'm not worried about heat.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Well pulled the tank again last night. Everything looked connected and good. Pulled the pump, all the wires looked good. Thinking to myself wtf?! Hooked the pump up out of the tank and put the key to ign power and it shot gas halfway across the garage.

Put the pump back in, hooked the lines up. Def heard it run probably two times with the key in ign power. Then it stopped. I can still hear the relay clicking but the pump does not run. Tested the power line off the relay again and it is intermittently getting power to the pump. It will do it 4-5 times in a row and then not do it for a bit, but I still hear the click "off" but not sure if there is an "on" click on the relay.

I'm assuming the relay crapped out at this point. The only other thing I can think is that the command wire is not sending the signal, but I was not able to not get a signal at the relay plug to that wire when it was supposed to. So not sure if it was just acting correctly on all those tries or if it is acting correctly all the time. Power wire to the relay is solid and hooked up straight to the battery.

Gonna throw a relay at it tonight and see what is what.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Hmm. This is why I I said verify power at the bulkhead. Then I would have put a battery right on the gas tank pigtail to verify pump operation before pulling the tank.

I'm not sure with the LS PCM but the TPI PCM would only prime the fuel pump like once or so every couple of key ons. I remember doing this with my 350 tpi and it wouldn't prime every time I key on esp if it was right after eachother. My experience with my 5.3 LS motor converted to standalone is that it will prime for 3-5s everytime I key on... but I have an aftermarket relay using PCM fuel pump signal controlling the 40amp relay. I would verify signal 12v from PCM, battery 12v and a good ground. If they all check out its an intermittent issue with the PCM, relay or pump.

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I have always had power at the bulkhead, battery is already connected directly to the fuel pump relay. Pump itself seems to be working fine. When I checked the power out of the relay to the pump I had it every time I checked Sunday, which is why I assumed it was something after the relay. But now after checking more I'm not getting power out of the relay to the pump every time. I also checked continuity on the grounds and they are all good. Previously the pump was running 3-5s every time i keyed on as you seem to be getting too.

I'm running an aftermarket relay same as you. I checked the pump signal wire at the relay and every time with key on it was getting power. That is not to say it isn't the issue, I just haven't gotten it to act up yet. They relay is clicking every time with key on, and seems to be getting the signal from the PCM but not always triggering power to the pump every time.

I'll try another relay and hook the pump up direct tonight to make sure it is good. I don't think it is the pump as it only seems to act up when it is not getting power out of the relay. Intermittent issues are kind hard to track down since it works sometimes, and sometimes not