Kingtal0n

Hello

I am doing the LS swap with a single turbo.

I am new to LS engines so please anything you have will help.

Basically I would love to run a typical return style setup, with LS return rails and an aeromotive regulator. Unless you can confirm that the return-less style (with vette filter/regulator in the rear) will also work fine. I have HP tuners so I can modify the injector tables or whatever.

My other question is about fitment:
Will an LS1 intake manifold work with the truck Steam ports and an LS6 valley cover?

Lonnie P

The Vette regulator & stock diameter lines start to have problems at around 700rwhp.
Once in this range, I strongly recommend a return style fuel system with a -8 supply.

Kingtal0n

Ok great. NO I will not need more than 650bhp for my 2800lbs vehicle, thanks.

My question is, how does boost pressure rise the rate of fuel pressure if the regulator is in the back by the tank and there is no reference? That confuses the #@(#_)@ out of me. Second, so are you saying I can run the stock vette regulator with, say, an aeromotive stealth pump and make 500bhp just like that using HP tuners and no boost reference? There MUST be a reference somehow.... ???

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

It is a basic regulator with no reference to manifold pressure.

Kingtal0n

So when I push 15psi of boost how the heck does the fuel rail rise to keep up with that? I lose a bar of fuel pressure-

86White_T/A305

I originally ran stock lines with vette regulator to the stock returnless rail and walbro 250lph pump and hit 600whp at 12psi boost. I was running out of pump. I upgraded to a 450 pump..ran -8an feed and return lines to a aeromotive regulator set at 60psi and still using stock returnless rail.Havent seen fuel pressure drop since and should i turn up the boost later and it isnt enough..i can simply add a reference line to the regulator from the turbo to increase fuel as needed.its not complicated and i think i can hit 700whp without the reference line hooked up in all honesty.

Kingtal0n

I didnt see a reference line on the vette regulator. Do they all have one?
edit: I see you meant the aeromotive. I don't understand now, you used a typical Return style aeromotive regulator but plumbed the return line before the rail? Can you shed some light on the setup to achieve this. I see tons of returnless rails and I was trying to avoid that because I dont want to buy huge injectors. How big are you injectors? With a return style, boost reference I should be able to hit 500bhp or 550bhp with a 50lb injector. Whereas I believe I would need 80lb/hr to hit that with a returnless.

it isnt the pump or fuel supply I am worried about, it is the boost pressure lowering the flow rate of the injector, making me need much larger than necessary injectors.

Kingtal0n

basically it comes down to this. My issue is I cant stomach a constant 60psi of fuel pressure. it will prematurely wear the fuel pump out.

A normal system that regulates down to 35~psi while driving a normal daily driver is ideal because that is much less stress on the fuel pump. So this is my goal, referenced fuel system pressure. Just need to figure out the easiest way to accomplish this goal. And right now it looks like an early return style rail is the easiest way.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its not exactly dead heading the pump lol theres return flow at the regulator/filter in the back. If you use the vette filter

Also if you only want 650 bhp then you can get there roughly with 10 psi with the right base motor. Maybe even less boost. With 58-60 psi fp base, 10 psi boost wont hurt it.

86White_T/A305

What is the fear at all..I dont understand the issue your having? Trying to accomplish your goal of 550hp and use 50lb injectors?

A stock Ls1 fuel system still runs around 55psi with stock injector. The return or returnless rails are not going to make a difference..all your doing is choosing where you want to place a regulator.Returnless rail means your going to use a single feed line upto the engine and use a vette regulator near the gas tank to regulate fuel pressure and have a very short return line from the vette regulator going into the gas tank. Or you have the return rails and run full length fuel lines upto the engine bay and have a regulator at the fuel rail itself.the overall idea of the fuel system is the same..just different placement of parts.

I choose to go with an aftermarket aeromotive regulator and run bigger feed/return lines to it and higher pressure/flowing fuel pump for future goals and more boost.Im still using the stock fuel rail and keep it set to the factory 55-60psi of constant pressure.As boost increases..my 80lbs injectors are commanded to run more fuel(duty cycle) and I havent come close to maxing them out yet at 15psi of boost and thats without boost referencing the fuel regulator..just sitting at 58psi stable fuel pressure.

For your power level your looking for..is not by any means demanding a complicated fuel system...the only thing you might run out of..is fuel pump if your using a 255 walbro in the tank.As you start tuning you will see that as boost increase you can command more injector..if you start getting close to 100% duty cycle on your injectors then considering upgrading them.I think it would be easier for you to start with 80lb injectors..give yourself room to grow because honestly..your going to turn it up! They are cheap to get deka 80 injectors..they are easy to tune and saves you from needing them later. Drop in a good fuel pump..and really for the price between the 255...340 and 450 walbro..just do the 450.Returnless fuel rail and a single feed line to the front and a vette filter/regulator and call it a day. You will get your 500-550WHP keeping it simple with 10psi of boost.I dont think boost reference is needed at this point for you.Some dont do it at all with much higher hp levels

Kingtal0n

I am not worried about fuel volume. I can tie 3 or 6 or 10 fuel pumps together to get the volume I want.

The issue is longevity of the pump, I will run a single fuel pump in a daily driver, and to get max life out of it, I need to see 35psi in the window while I drive the car around normally. I dont care about injector size or fuel pump size or whp output etc... its all about longevity. Using vette regulator sticks the fuel system with 60psi constant; that is double the pressure of a return style referenced regulator, and completely UN-necessary as both setups will provide the same 60psi at 15psi of boost I require.

Any pressure system, from biological to mechanical/fluid should run the absolute lowest pressure to get the job done, whether we are discussing lymphatics or blood pressure or fuel pressure etc... to get the absolute longest life from the equipment, given similar costs of course ( I would not spend EXTRA to do this, it just happens the cost is similar) we run the lowest pressure (for daily drivers where you want 50k or 100k from a fuel system and intend to drive it like a normal car 80% of the time) this is the optimal config.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Good, sounds like you made a decision. Now go do it.

Don't confuse our patience with you as interest in you. Time to close this thread.

Kingtal0n

you dont need to be snappy or rude. I did make a decision and yes when I started the thred I didnt understand the way the system works, I didnt know it stayed at 60psi (in my head I thought, that cant be right). but Now I DO Understand and I do have my own opinion about pressure systems.


I appreciate the feedback and I am still curious about the other questions, accessory based issues i am having. SO I would appreciate if the thread stays open for those issues.
And anything else anyone has to offer or comment on would also be helpful. I've always posted my findings online free for anyone, I always help the community. This is not secrets for me to keep, it is free knowledge when I discover it. There will be a 'build' thread and it will contain information about the engineering aspects of pressure and filtration and so forth, as a bioengineer I am familiar with the body's systems and this biological perspective plays a role in the cleanliness and applications of engines and transmissions and so forth.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Huh? My stock ls1 ta had over 100K miles on the stock fuel pump set at 58 psi pressure. My 305 91z had 130K on stock pump at 43psi before i changed it for the turbo. My truck 6.2 L9H has over 100k miles on its stock pump at 58 psi base pressure. It will not fail anytime soon either

You arent going to kill a pump at 40-60 psi. The turbo will not last that long i bet.
You are overly complicating things

The biologics and mechanical pumps are not related so dont compare them. A pump is designed to run at those pressures for X many hrs.

86White_T/A305

Lol yes..you need about 55psi as your base even N/A on a ls based motor with efi. I extremely doubt you need to boost reference a regulator for the amount of boost or power levels your trying to achieve.Just keep the fuel pump saturated in fuel..good filter and good stable voltage(hotwire kit) and it will last and not be stressed at 50-60psi of regulation..even at 15psi of boost.

No need to reinvent the wheel.If you can afford it Id suggest just running new -8 feed and return lines from the tank to a aeromotive or similiar type adjustable regulator w/gauge mounted on it, and -8 feed from the regulator to the fuel rail.Set the fuel pressure to 58psi and let it eat for a long life.I added pre and post regulator inline filters also.

Kingtal0n

Yes stock pumpsdesigned to work in those applications are probably fine. I will not be using a stock pump though. I will be using a more expensive pump. The entire system operating at 30psi is a sigh of relief to my vision, it will make me feel better about the entire system so that is all that really matters now isnt it?

I bet if you run 2 walbros, one at 35psi and one at 60psi, the one at 60 will fail first. In fact I can almost guarantee it.

My turbo will last 150k. My last one went 220k (and was still fine when I sold the car) but it was a stock turbocharger from a stock engine (T-28) so this is apples to bananas. The secret to keeping a turbo alive is multiple aspect: it needs clean oil, I will be using an exceptionally high quality filtration system. It also needs to be surge free: I will be using a high quality bypass on the compressor. It needs to have access to highest quality air: i will be using a high quality OEM paper style filter. So that is, clean oil, clean air, and no surge, and of course no oil coking. And it will last... a long time.

86White_T/A305

Hmm my 1 and only walbro 255lph pump has lasted 9 yrs..full time 60psi,has powered 3 transams...7 engine swaps including my current setup and multiple 18psi pulls before seeing drop in pressure at the rail and duty cycle spiked up. Ive switched to the 450 walbro and at full tilt Im not even close to maxing out injectors to need boost reference.My 255 sits in a box for a rainy day or another project.

I can say back when i first had my ls1 engine and was still using the stock tpi fuel pump...i killed 3 of those in a summer beating on my stock ls1 before I had enough and went with a walbro.1 walbro couldve saved me the cost of 3 gm tpi pumps and countless hrs swapping..tow bills etc smh.

Walbro will take abuse..providing its got surrounding support,unclogged filters..not starved of fuel and clean 12v+

Kingtal0n

wow man. I get about 3 years out of a walbro since 2002 I've been using them for 240sx sr20det swaps. 3 years 25k~ miles every single time poof next one. I always have a spare brand new for when it happens, in the trunk. Those motors make only 250-300rwhp. They run 43psi~ base also like most of the old stuff. Sometimes you get lucky, I guess.

86White_T/A305

1 time i thought i killed my 255 and i had no fuel...could hear the relay click for prime but not hear the pump..fml.Luckily the car was at home this time and after doing 4 pump swamps like I mentioned earlier..I made a fuel door.Took the pump out..put it on my test bench and bam..pump was fine..wtf. I looked at the original pump assembly and the factory wires were so old and brittle. i cleaned it all up and made my own hotwire kit with fresh thicker insulated wires.Put it back to together and in a total of 3.5 hrs i was back on the road and never had a pump issue since.Ive blown more motors using that pump and made me question thats the main reason i blew the previous stock tpi pumps was resistance in the wiring.

Read this thread on tech:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-ind...regulator.html

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You ruin every community you enter. It is your favorite hobby.

You don't have a 3rd gen F body so your build thread doesn't belong here and the mods will shut it down. If you ran out your welcome at other sites.... not our problem.

So today you're a bio engineer, huh? Does that supplement your primary job tutoring math 101 for cafeteria vouchers?

86White_T/A305

Lol Qwktrip going in on him...where is this stemming from?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Oh, this Kingtal0n twerp is famous at multiple boards. You're in for a real treat my friend.

I got the joy of meeting him for the first time here...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...on-street.html

Kingtal0n

I am many things. I have a master of science in bioengineering. Biological science under grad bachelors. mathematics. computer science, and computer engineering.

I am a personal trainer, mechanic, computer technician, math tutor of course, and I am still in school for that which I will not discuss here until FINISHED (I only post achievements once I finish them). Until then, I am simply a student.

Famous for my way of being picky about the air I breath, I complain when I see people running engines without air filters. It gets on everybodys nerves.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

In other words, you're middle aged and jobless.

Kingtal0n

Does it make you feel better? Hell yes I am jobless. Who the hell wants a lame *** job I will never work. Except in one place... an emergency room. That is my dream believe it or not.

I hope you stop by one day, and don't need any of my skills.

86White_T/A305

Lol Im at a loss for words now..that was one hell of a thread! You know sometimes people do know too much for their own good lol where simple things become major crisis. And then there are people with the gift of gab and cant help but point out things..while digging a little shot behind it lol.

Almost felt like I was reading a Yellowbullet thread

Kingtal0n

Its no major crisis. It is a simple idea that going for 60psi constant will cost the same as going for 35psi in a daily driver config. therefore I will opt for the lesser pressure. very simple, logical path. I wasn't the member who attacked me, I am only defending myself.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well run the return style system with the lower pressure. Have to modify stock rails or buy aftermarket

The returnless stock rail system was designed to run at 58 psi because it prevents fuel boiling off and vapor locking.

Kingtal0n

trying to find a vette 98 rail because it does have a return line on it. One is in ebay now with injectors but the price... is as high as an aftermarket rail

Kingtal0n

from aeromotive tech:

"All testing on Aeromotive fuel pumps for durability is done at 60-PSI. We typically see 2,000 run hours from a 340 Stealth Pump at 60-PSI and 13.5 volts. That said, lower pressure and/or slower speed can extend pump life, but you would need to change injectors (possibly) and retune the ECU (certainly) if you plan to run lower pressure."



Hope that helps, let us know if you need further assistance and thanks for choosing Aeromotive!


Brett Clow

Tech Director