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I'm a 32 year old infantryman from Montreal, Canada. I'm rebuilding a 1988 Trans Am on my weekends/leave. The car was actually my first car, I've had it since I was 16! I blew the engine about 10 years ago and its been on blocks since.
Car in storage.
At least the cats have been enjoying my TA...
So, there it is. The basic idea is to create a road-race/auto-x weekend car.
My plans, in no particular order, include:
6.0 LS Swap
Manual transmission
Roll cage
Subframe connectors
9 bolt rear with disk brakes
Sheet-metal interior/Lightening
Suspension tweaks
Paint job (Probably Championship White, its cheap)
If some things I do seem odd, its probably because I had no other options within my budget. Parts in Canada are a nightmare. Anything new will wind up costing at least 200-300$ more in shipping then who knows how much in duty and the used parts selection is "sparse". Paying 1500$ for a broken T56 sparse, no thanks.
Last edited by monkey-leader; 07-19-2015 at 01:47 AM.
Unless you find (or have) a 9 bolt I would suggest using a 10 bolt strong enought for your built but more importantly the parts are more common and much cheaper... If dead set on 9 bolt price the parts to "freshen one up 1st)
Unless you find (or have) a 9 bolt I would suggest using a 10 bolt strong enought for your built but more importantly the parts are more common and much cheaper... If dead set on 9 bolt price the parts to "freshen one up 1st)
There's two 9 bolt rears in the classifieds with 3.27 rear end gears and Discs. Somehow there's no 10 bolts?
Either way they are 250$. My 10 bolt has 2.72 gears, changing the gears on my 10 bolt will run at least that and I'll still have drum brakes in the back. Also,the 9 bolt is stronger. If you adjust the shims correctly it can last a long time for road racing.
Why no 9" or 12 bolt:
They cost a fortune to get one with the brackets.
They will incur penalties in auto-x classing.
Last edited by monkey-leader; 07-19-2015 at 09:50 AM.
Good news! Seems like the roll cage is legal in Quebec, with some limitations. Basically, anything that interferes with your movement in and out of the car is prohibited. Therefore, door bars cannot be higher than your hip.
I will mock up a door bar that is lower than the stock seats hip placement and see how it looks. I guess it will be more of a reinforcement bar than safety, but whatever. it should tie in nicely with the SFCs I'll be fabricating on the other side of the floor.
Bad news: Works been a pain and my daily driver (Volvo V70R, never buy one) has been acting up. So, I haven't got to do as much as I'd like.
Good news: It's a long weekend up here and I got to throw the motor in. Morale is high...
Motor going in.
Oil pan's tight?!?!
So much firewall clearance...
I pulled the motor out and am going to reinstall it with the transmission tomorrow. Hopefully I can begin work on the cross-member and driveline and be done this weekend...
Thats cool you've held on to your first car....wish I had.
Is the LY6 an iron block?
Did you build the motor mounts?
Yeah, the LY6 is an iron block with L92 heads and VVT (~350HP/~370TQ). Pretty easy to get some power out of it.
The motor mounts are from Hooker, got a good deal on them in the classifieds. Seeing how much clearance there is between the engine and firewall kind of makes me want to make my own than move the engine back a little further, but that's probably not going to happen...[/
Last edited by monkey-leader; 09-06-2015 at 10:01 AM.
I was at it again tonight as well as last night. Things just didn't fit properly. Poor clearance everywhere I looked.
Earlier, I had left the clam shells in the stock location. This left the motor too far forward. So, I moved the clam shells to the rear position on the rearward position on the K-member. This created some clearance issues with the firewall.
Cylinder head resting on firewall in the rearward clam shell position
I came to the conclusion that I was sold the wrong motor mounts (Hooker 12621HKR). I was hoping the mounts would be easy-peasey. Guess I'll have to sort things out myself.
I measured everything, old engines, new engines, old mounts, new mounts, transmissions. You name it, I measured it. Just to be sure.
In the end it seems that the motor should be moved 3.48" back. This is the mount to transmission difference between an SBC an LSx. The mounts only move the engine about 2.325 (measured it). Meaning, the motor falls 1.125" short of where it should to retain the factory transmission mount point. This also meant the the info for this product is straight up wrong.
Seems like this info would be all over the internet. Newsflash, its not.
Luckily, the third gen k-member is pretty big. I drilled some clam shell mounts 1.125 further back and now it looks like it fits.
New clam shell location
Firewall cleared
Super-T10 hanging out.
Before anybody says anything; the x-member is just so the engine doesn't bottom out on the k-member. I still have to make a x-member with a mount point about 0.5" to 1" further forward.
On the upside, it seems like I will be able to re-use the GTA drive shaft. All that will be required is a 1310 to 1350 universal joint.
Last edited by monkey-leader; 01-02-2016 at 01:06 AM.
Look like founders but could be about anyone's. Except for the DSE mounts which are way expensive, there isn't enough difference between brands for the average hotrodder to tell.
I just did a 5.3 LS swap with a supercharger. I used steel adjustable setback style mounts, $50 shipped on eBay. This allows engine movement in the stock SBC location and +\- 1" forward or rearward. I ended up in the stock location only bc I didn't feel like having to pay to have my $500 driveshaft shortened 1". I then had an issue with the power steering pump pulley almost touching the steering box, smaller pulley solved that.
Glad you figured out the engine mount thing, but the cheap setback mounts would have given you adjustability without having to drill the Kmember. Now you need to figure out exhaust! I used the cheap SS long tubes off eBay but if I had the engine setback any further than stock the headers wouldn't fit.... So glad that worked out.
Aftermarket Kmember would help a lot with oil pan clearance etc but ur going to notice the truck oil pans are too low and till bottom out on the ground befor anything else as it sits below the Kmember, fbody oil pan or Holley will fix that but pushes the sump right into the stock Kmember which u might have to clearance or get an aftermarket Kmember. Sucks about the charges you Canadians incur. Oh also any pan swap will require, Windage tray, oil pump pickup and dipstick change as well to match.
Our builds are very similar but mines a street car, but I have a ford 8.8, 2004R, 4" exhaust and a supercharger lol. And i made everything! Low roll bar door bars are not NHRA approved down here. I would suggest a swing out kit and remove them but have them up higher for racing. That's what I did on my 8pt bc getting in and out with the door bars is a PITA lol. I made my own front and rear weight jacks as well.
What brand/where did you get those caster/camber strut mounts? Snazzy looking...
The camber plates are J&M. I got them form a guy in the local classifieds.
Sorry for the late reply, I've been tasked out quite a bit this year. On the upside (?) it means that I was bored and ordered a lot of parts. More to follow.
While staring into the woods I got cell service every now and then and ordered a f*** ton of parts. I'll add links for the other poor Canadian souls so maybe they can save some duckets. The e-bay parts probably should have been bought from any Canadian parts store but whatever. Here's a breakdown:
A bit of me dies inside when I think of the customs fees.
In case you are wondering, the headers seem to be of pretty good quality. Especially given what they cost. Before you start, they look a lot better than some ceramic "high quality American headers" that I've played with in the past. As a side note, they will ship them UPS. UPS will rip you off for brokerage fees at the border, unless you call them and say that you're going to clear them yourself.
Here's some more pics:
Primary welds are good inside.
Primary welds are good outside.
Collector welds look good.
Header flange is straight but seems like it could have been cut better. (oh well)
Internally collector looks fine.
I also got a set of C5 Corvette rims to experiment with. It seems like the brake conversion will not be a problem. It looks like it will even fit under 17" wheels, something that Baer or others have not produced? Though I think Ill go with 18" rims all around, for suspension/tire clearance issues. I didn't have the spacers at the time, I used some wood instead. Its maybe not 100% centered...
18Z Calipers under 18" C5 Rim
18Z Calipers under 17" C5 Rim
18Z Caliper under 17" C5 Rim (clearance seems good?)
Its been a while since I have updated this. I moved and basically this project got stuck in a town I wasn't in for a while. I also got a little distracted with other projects/cars. Since the last update I had a low rider Colorado, a fire damaged BMW 330Ci that I restored for autocross and a '69 Dodge Dart that I've got some future plans for.
1969 Dodge Dart
2004 Chevrolet Colorado
2002 BMW 330Ci
Anyhow, I sold the Colorado and the BMW and moved my Trans Am closer to where I am. Conveniently enough there's a lift or two.
I had to take the gas tank out in order to install the new fuel pump. I also removed the old exhaust and 10 bolt drum rear, as I'm going with a 9 bolt disc unit.
Out with the old...
I originally planned on retrofitting the old tank with a walbro fuel pump and corvette pressure regulator/filter. The tank looked great from he outside, the inside was another story.
15 year old gas/rust
Delicious caramelized fuel
On the upside the floors, pickup points and frame are immaculate. Living in Quebec/Ontario that's pretty amazing. There only two spots of surface rust. I imagine they are from bottoming out. Who needs undercoating when you smash transmission cooler lines once a year right?
So clean....
Don't mind the massive pictures, my Huaiwei spy phone takes hi resolution 40MP direct to China. I didn' really get to put any work in since Friday. There's more to come, Ill be working on this all week. I'm shooting to have this thing on the road come spring.
Bad news, I drained the old gas and my gas tank was pretty gross. It was Sunday evening so I had no idea what I could get other than Hawks Third Gen, Rock Auto or Summit. Hawks and Rock Auto were really overprices, summit was ok but who knows how long that will take. F*&# that. I thought about trying to acid wash it with some muriatic acid, but I wasn't really certain I would be able to get rid of the all the crust and decided to find a new (to me?) tank. Now spinning...
Nasty....
I moved on to mock up the Trans/Engine. Because I set the engine so far back with the Super T-10 transmission, it seemed impossible to get the T-56 installed. That was with no clutch or flywheel present, not fun. I dropped the K-Member. This created enough room to get the motor and trans installed as one unit. Great, I really dislike installing transmissions from the bottom anways. Looks like I have to weld in a patch and cut a new shifter hole though.
Sketchy things to be doing alone on a sunday at 1AM
Pretty tight clearances.
Right against the firewall
T56 is longer than a Super T-10:seizure:
I called around all Monday morning and most of the places wanted $500+ CAD, which I found to be ridiculous. Luckily enough, the local scrap had this lying around for $150.
Upgrade!!!
I weighted it and it comes in at 10 pounds lighter, with the EVAP canister attached. I'll be removing that, so maybe 11 pounds lighter:rotfl:. Most importantly, the tank will last longer than the car. Downside is non of the fittings are the same. The old tank uses a 16mm x 1.5 fitting on the main line and some hose clamps for the EVAP and return lines. The new tank uses 3/8 in quick connect EFI connectors for the main and return lines and a 5/16 quick connect for the EVAP. It took some research (Thirdgen.org/Google) but I got a pretty good idea of the route used.
Most people
Use an LS1 fuel pump sender.
Connect to the pump using female quick connect to AN6 adapers.
Run a new line to the stock fuel filter (16mm x 1.5).
Install a T union (flare?) either before or after the pump.
Run a fuel line back to the pumps return from the T union.
This works because the LS1 pump has a build in pressure regulator. It seems like a bit of extra work just to create a loop. My solution is similar but IMO better and I also decided to go ahead and future proof myself for if we ever get ethanol in Canada. I'll try to remember to add pictures when I receive the parts.
My Solution:
Use an LS1 fuel pump sender.
Install an AN6 to 16mm x 1.5 adapter at the stock fuel line.
Install a Tee adapter at the on the Tee adapter.
Connect the Tee adapter to the pump using female quick connect to AN6 adapers.
Run a fuel line back to the pumps return from the Tee adapter.
Remove the stock return and EVAP lines.
Remove the rubber fuel line at the engine compartment end of the fuel line.
Install an AN6 to 16mm x 1.5 adapter on the engine compartment side of the fuel line.
Connect to the LS using a quick connect to AN6 adapter.
Shopping list:
Russell 640830 Specialty Adapter Fitting O-Ring Adapter x 2
Russell 661020 Blue Anodized Aluminum -6AN Flare Tee Adapter Fitting
Russell 640850 Hard Tube Adapter x 4
Russell 640860 Hard Tube Adapter x 2
Braided nylon PTFE fuel line x 20'
Cooking this up ate a lot of my day and I still have a metric %H!T ton of wiring to do.
FML
Last edited by monkey-leader; 03-14-2019 at 02:17 PM.
Second, can you get the hard line for the LS1 tank? If you got the two hard lines and the T block, you don't need all those fittings. I have an LS1 tank in my car with my 4.8 swap with a 4th gen filter. That screwed right onto my stock 3rd gen hard line
Second, can you get the hard line for the LS1 tank? If you got the two hard lines and the T block, you don't need all those fittings. I have an LS1 tank in my car with my 4.8 swap with a 4th gen filter. That screwed right onto my stock 3rd gen hard line
Why too far back? Everything seems to line up other than it being a pain to install...
Hardlines weren't an option. Nobody had any fittings around here, I went to 5 or 6 parts stores. I got everything of Amazon Prime sooner that they could "special order" basic parts. Also, it didn't cost much.
Last edited by monkey-leader; 03-13-2019 at 01:27 PM.
Why too far back? Everything seems to line up other than it being a pain to install...
I mean you can leave it there, but that's not where the LS and T56 should sit in a swap. You should have a good 1.5-2" of space at the back of the head. I have the 4.8 and LS T56 in my car and the shifter is just slightly to the rear of that hole for your shifter. You're not even going to be able to install the console in the stock location with the shift hole that far back, the shifter handle will be almost to your elbow when you're sitting in the car. You're going to have to make an adapter to move the shifter handle forward. I've done the T56 swap 4 times, and none of them have had the engine/trans that far back
I don't think so. The Super T10 sat too far forward. I'm 6'4", ergonomically it's perfect. Also, the console lines up almost perfectly. So, I'm not sure how yours fit perfectly so much further forward.
I doesn't matter to me, lol, I looks like you will have to pull the engine to get the head off it is so close to the firewall. You have a lot more room between the pan and the crossmember, some people have to trim the crossmember, so you're definitely father back then most swaps. If you're that tall, you should have longer arms, I would think the shifter back so far would be a detriment, just pointing it out is all, not criticizing. I move the engine back 1.75" in my 73 Camaro so I didn't have to buy a new driveshaft, lol so what ever works for you
Yeah, my motivation was shifting weight to the rear and not so much fitment. Strangely enough, the shifter seems like it will come out right about where the TH700R4 shifter was. Dont know why the heads wouldn't come off? I don't have head studs on this block. I'm building a aluminum 6.0L LS3, out of an Escalade, for down the road that will have studs and etc. That's a problem for later.
Looking at your engine, why does the oil filter threaded nipple look like it spent 500 years at the bottom of the ocean? That's a serviceable part that can be replaced. But more importantly, how did something turn to rust that normally sits inside an oil bath?
Have you done anything to improve the oiling system of the engine? A stock LS engine can run out of oil if the car can turn well.
Rectangle port heads in particular need some attention in that department. And the truck blocks make thing more challenging because they don't have the crank bay windows like the cars do. Combine that with an f body pan and you've got something that probably needs some extra help to make sure the pickup tube stays submerged.
Just trying to look out for your best interest. Engines are not cheap!
Have you done anything to improve the oiling system of the engine?
Thanks for the tips, still looklng into oiling. So I haven't done much yet. I had planned on installing an improved racing baffle, oil cooler and maybe drill out the filter plate. Dry sump seems a bit expensive and maybe not so good for the street. Nearest tracks an hour drive and trailering to lapping nights and etc seems tedious.
What do you recommend?
Either way, I'm not shooting for perfection. It will be an ongoing thing for at least the first year. Then I'll probably get the thing a paint job.
I'm not very educated on the issue so it's only going to take a few seconds to say what I know. Other people are likely to know more. Honestly, a lot of learning comes from failure and I don't push my car hard enough to cause failure, so I've not had to learn a lot about it.
The basics:
Clean up and smooth the oil passages and make sure the oil return in the heads are aligned. Drill larger drain holes in the lifter trays.
Make sure the oil pan has vacuum. This is very important. You may need to install a vacuum pump to make that happen.
Road racing baffles in the pan (not drag race baffles). C5 Corvette oil pan is hands down the best wet pan ever put on by the factory, but now they are rare and expensive.
Upgrade oil pump if turning engine above 6000 rpm. Stock pump tends to cavitate above that speed.
Other things that get a little spendy:
Crank scraper and full length windage tray is recommended and will free up some power. It will improve oil drain back and the "quality" of the oil with less aeration. (LS1 f-body pan does not have a full length windage tray because pan is too close to the #1 and #2 rods.)
An Accusump can smooth out oil pressure temporarily. My friend added one to his car after losing an LS1 in a long sweeping turn on a road course despite having an 8 quart Canton pan.
Return fuel in the 99-02 F-body system is not filtered. The T block is before the fuel filter
I'll be darned. After all these years I didn't know that! I put the tee after the filter in my car but there is a risk of overheating the pump if the filter were to become too far plugged. I can see where putting the tee before the filter is desirable when people don't service filters often enough.
I wonder if the reason for the longer factory return line is to dampen pressure pulses caused by the fuel pump before reaching the fuel regulator? (avoid harmonics in the pressure regulator)
Yeah, the LY6 is an iron block with L92 heads and VVT (~350HP/~370TQ). Pretty easy to get some power out of it.
That's a great engine! Those Gen IV engines have stronger rods and block. Heads are basically LS3 with heavier valves. I've run a LY6 with L92 heads and a stroker kit for the last 3 years. Walks the late models hard.
I could swear the tee was after the filter on the 4th gen LS cars.
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
I'll be darned. After all these years I didn't know that! I put the tee after the filter in my car but there is a risk of overheating the pump if the filter were to become too far plugged. I can see where putting the tee before the filter is desirable when people don't service filters often enough.
I wonder if the reason for the longer factory return line is to dampen pressure pulses caused by the fuel pump before reaching the fuel regulator? (avoid harmonics in the pressure regulator)
Sorry, I am wrong. I was remembering incorrectly. the filter is before the "T". It has been a long time since I was under the car. I just looked in the 4th gen parts book.
07-19-2015, 01:24 AM
