jpoeling

So my freind and I just purchased this 88 formula 350 c prepared car about a month ago and have been working on it here and there since..this is what the car has to date.

Full roll cage
weld in sub frame connectors
stripped interior and as much metal and glass as possible. 3150 lbs total wieght
eibach 175 lbs 8" rear springs with weight jackers.
eibach 1100 lbs 9.5" front springs with weight jackers
stock ws6 36mm front sway bar 19mm rear
UMI camber caster plates
koni yellow adjustable shocks and struts
all SPOHN
adjustable control arms, panhard bar, trac bar
st-10 4 speed tranny with compitition plus HURST shifter
gm 10 bolt with gen 4 disc brake conversion and detroit truetrac with 3.23 gears
electric fans
electric water pump
accusump oil accumulator
mini tub rear end
REAL 16"diameter 12" wide wheels
28x14x16 rear hoosiers radials
25x14x16 front hoosiers radials

sbc 355 brand new build
aluminum 200cc heads
edelbroch rpm performer intake with holley 650 double pumper
awaiting new dyno pull for hp numbers
dyno #305 hp 387 tq at rear wheels on chassis dyno.

Still have a long way to go with this thing but its a decent start.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

When will it be on a track?

jpoeling

have already had our first outing last weekend...did much better than anticipated seeing how it was our first time in the car and the suspension setup i described is the one on order not the one on the car at the moment..actually if you look at the pictures you can see the front end torn apart in one picture...that is getting ready for new parts...

old suspension setupt is stock front with 400lbs springs rear hypercoil 8" tall...completely wrong in our opinion but we will see..

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

here ya go:


















car looks good!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

does that thing have points ignition system on it?!

jpoeling

Yes it is points style ignition. Its all MSD. It also has a PAINLESS wiring system with starter box. Very nice having that box with all the switches for water pump fans ect ect.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

is that all rubber fuel line? that's a fire waiting to happen if there's 6 feet of it there. Not to mention those glass fuel filters are known for cracking as well.

jpoeling

Explain why the length of rubber fuel line is relative to fire. Secondly its the stock fuel line with only 4psi on it so I think it will be ok. As for the fuel filter you very well might be right. Haven't had any problems with them as of yet on anything I have ever owned. Is this just something you have heard or is this based on actual events that have happened to you?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

don't mind steve, he can be a bit abrasive. you really should consider a better quality fuel line material. the rubber just isn't very durable. the length makes for more unreliable surface area, therefore making it more of a fire hazard.

most of us are drag racing guys, and by NHRA rules, you can have no more than 12" combined length of rubber fuel line on the car. there are alot of other options out there that have more abrasive resistance, and higher burst pressures that would be more suitable for a competition situation.

as far as the fuel filter is concerned, while i've not had one crack on me, i have seen them crack and leak. i have them at work, but i refuse to sell them unless the customer is insistant.

alot of cool stuff on that car man. i would change a couple details, but it's really just personal preference really. get the wiring cleaned up and put that gauge bezel in a bit more convenient spot, as well as convert to an electronic ignition system, and make that fuel system a touch more reliable, and you'll be well on your way to a really nice piece

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Any details or better pictures about that accessory setup? Are you running a PS pump? Are you using stock brackets or a tensioner?

What is that that large, straight black thing next to the upper radiator hose?

jpoeling

Thanks for clearing that up a bit. While i understand your point on the fuel line i do not have conform to nhra rules. The rubber part of the fuel line is exactly 4' long is wraped in tubing and is not even remotely close to anything it could even think of rubbing on and 4 psi would never in a million years break a rubber hose unles it was inproperly maintained. that being said i do take your advice to heart on the fuel filter and as long as im getting rid of it i might as well upgrade the fuel line.

Yes the wiring was an absolute mess when we got this car and that is when some of these pics where taken...it has since been cleaned up and have gotten rid of lots of extras that went nowhere. The guage cluster is an eyesore that i cant even begin to tell you how much it aggravates us. The plans are to make an aluminum dash to hide the rest of the important wiring that is there and give the car some class in doing so. Also as long as I am talking about making the car more presentable, we plan on doing an all white paint job with bright orange stripes starting on the front fenders up to the hood and then down the length of the car..Hopefully all this work and time will pay off in a nationaly competetive car.

jpoeling

I can tell you that it is running a serpentine belt with tensionor. As for brackets i am sure they are aftermarket from looking at them but I do not know what kind they are as they were on the car already when we bought it...The big black thing you are referring to is just a piece of hose attatched to the top of the power steering pump to allow for any froth up from the pump...again on the car already but I asked the previous owner about that one too.

jpoeling

Oh and I was not clear on the ignition setup...its all electronic msd...When i said the silly statement of points style my head was in my behind. what i was trying to convey was that it is not the original hei style..sorry for that

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Can you get better pictures? That setup looks like it might be the solution to a problem that I've been looking for a solution for.

jpoeling

yes as soon as i get some time i will take more pics of the belt setup for you.

dannyboyemt

very cool set up, this is exactly what i plan on doing with my camaro, can wait to see how this progresses.

gbeaird

iTrader: (1)

Nice. Who's ride was that? We run an 85 Firebird in the Houston Region in CP:

http://cp.carlc.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=179

It does look like you have some detailing to do. I do think your front spring rate is a little low, but if it works for you, then go for it. We're running 800# in the front on weight jackers, but I'm thinking of moving to 900# springs. We're still running the mid-80's era 305 in ours. It puts 285 HP at the wheels. It's way undercompetitive, HP-wise with respect to our competition. We're having a 5L LS engine built. Hopefully we'll get it this fall and start the installation around Thanksgiving.

Best of luck with yours!

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

jpoeling

Sorry crossfire, still havent had time to get pics up with kids sports and new parts for the car coming in..i will though i promise.

Gbeaird, the car was formerly carla russo's from the st.louis region scca.
It hasnt been raced since 2008 until we got it, and yes it needs a lot of detailing, seems like all i do anymore is work on this car but i love doing it. As for the spring rates, we were guessing here and this is what we decided to try first. We have an idea that you are correct and we will need stiffer springs in the front..thats the beauty of springs though, they are relatively cheap to play around with...What pound springs do you run in the rear of yours.

Oh the horsepower issue, Yes more power is always welcome..eventually we would like to build this to a 383 stroker, but first we have to get it handling correctly and looking a little bit better. I will say this about power though. You can have a 1000hp car but if you cant get it to hook up then whats the point. So even though we might be a little low on hp, we can get it to bite most of the time...and still have enough power to break it when needed..i will contribute most of that to our large torque output for what the motor is...

As long as we are talking back and forth about our cars..what tranny and rear end gear ratio are you running.

jpoeling

Ok so finally had time to take a few pics of the pulley system on the car for crossfire to look at..hope they show you what you want to see.

Also have a few updated pics of the interior with the new seat installed and some wiring cleaned up a bit....The car is getting there slowly but surely.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

nice seats, same ones I run in my camaro

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the pics.

Looks like they're bits of the standard (and well worn) March brackets... a 4th gen alternator and third gen PS. Unfortunatly, that idler/alternator bracket goes right through the middle of the space that I need to run something through, and it doesn't look like it could be redesigned enough to make it work. ARG... it sucks when you have something in your head and you just can't get it to work out right.

jpoeling

Sorry it didn't help you out any crossfire. Yes it is well worn just like the rest of the car lol. Its ok though just means its broken in really well like an old catchers mitt.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Yea, I saved the pictures anyway, I'm wondering if I could make something similar with the accessories in the same location with different brackets that would work... even if those won't work it's an idea that might get me started on something that might.

Thanks

rayar

iTrader: (1)

I think the setup will also change with driver preference. I ended up going with 1300lb front springs 36mm front sway bar and a whopping 500lb springs with a 18mm sway bar in the rear. According to what everyone says my car should have been undrivable with oversteer. I think it worked because I had a 3 link in the rear and was also running the larger 27X14X16 tires in the rear. It might also be that it complimented my driving style. I felt the car was still a little pushy and could have used even more rear spring or a bigger sway bar.

I tried many spring rates from slightly stiffer then stock 750/300 moderate 1000/375 and even tried the 1000/300 and 1300/375 and just couldn't get the car to turn the way I wanted until I upped the rear spring rate. This year I was going to try larger 3 piece adjustable sway bars front and rear but popped an engine close to the end of the season and just didn't have the $ to build a proper engine so I parted it out and will sit out a few years until I can afford to build or buy a nationally competitive CP car.

jpoeling

Wow that is some very different spring setups you have tested and very cool that you did so in attempts to find what you wanted. We will know more about our 700lbs/250lbs setup after this weekend. Here is another question to everyone. We just put on the UMI camber/caster plates. What kind of camber/caster are you all running. We are going for max caster hopefully around 6 to 7 degrees and about 2 to 2.5 camber with close to a 1/16 toe out. Any ideas on this setup.

Oh and how did you like the 27x14x16 setup..Reason i ask is we have the opportunity to pick up some takeoffs in great shape for free. Also are you running coilovers or stock style suspension..Our thoughts about springs are that with the coilovers it changes some of the geometery of the suspension and allows the use of higher spring rates as opossed to stock...this could be completely wrong of course it is just our thoughts..I guess in truth its all relative to where the locations are of the mounting of the springs.

rayar

iTrader: (1)

My car would not hook up on the 25X13's. Getting rid of the torque arm and building a 3 link helped a lot but the car never really got good forward bite until after I started useing the 27's in the rear. It's also hard to say if it was the tires or not because I made some pretty big changes on the 3 link right before I went with the 27's. Changes that should have increased forward bite, thats the problem with making more then one change at a time, you don't know which one helped. As far as my spring rates The front to rear bias is still allmost the same as stock. My rear spring rate is a little higher but I am also using a smaller rear sway bar. I just couldn't make the car work on lighter springs.

As far as your alignment. I will be honest in that I never measured my caster or camber. I ran the most I could get with the factory plates and just monitered tire temp. I don't think 1/16" toe out will be enough, Last season I was up to 3/16" toe out and was happy with how the car turned in but it might also been the cause of my slight push. I would try 1/8" and experment from there

jpoeling

thats good info...much appreciated. We would love to figure out how to get the 27s on there but seems like it would take alot of figuring to do so...maybe a winter project. There are a lot of factors into running different spring rates on these cars...that much I understand. For instance our car is so rigid due to the overbuilt roll cage. Weight has been changed from stock as most peoples in CP has but that isnt to say that everyone removed or added the weight back in the same spots as each other. Every little part or modification changes all these factors for spring rates. So I'll probably never be exactly the same as anyone else and this is what makes it so interesting in CP class..Its like taking all the information you recieve from everyone and rolling it into a big ball and then plucking different peices of it out here and there until you get what you think is right. We will make sure to let everyone know how the car handles this sunday.

rayar

iTrader: (1)

I was finally able to get my car competitive with the fast guys in our region in SS Elises and ASP Vettes and 911's(Similar pax to CP) We have guys in the region that have trophied at Nationals so our faster guys are pretty good drivers but I am sure that if I tried to run at Nationals I would end up mid pack at best in CP

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Very cool car. Those wheels are huge. I also have a car that I've built for CP but believe it or not I have never autocrossed. I got hooked doing local time attack sessions and just haven't had a whole lot of desire to go to an autox, I need to get out to one.


How do you like the detroit tru trac?
I see that the Mike Maier mustang runs a detroit locker, I was thinking about running one but am afraid about getting a nasty push. My trac lok diff is pretty much useless.

rayar

iTrader: (1)

Trutrac Vs Detroit is a good question that probably does not have a definate answer. I do think the detroit needs a more aggressive driver that dosen't mind tossing the tail around a little.

I ran a factory 4th gen torsen in my car which is similar to a trutrac but not nearly as good. I was very happy with it but I think to keep from spinning the inside rear tire it needs some stiff front springs and a small or no rear sway bar which my car had. I spun more when I was running 1000lb front springs. A trutrac has some preload so should work much better.

jpoeling

Thought I would throw out a little update to whats been going on with the car. We have now had 2 more events with our new setup of springs and camber/caster plates. Car seems to be drastically better than it was with old setup. Todays race however was raining and car was crap to drive sitting on slicks. The 700 lbs front springs seem to be pretty close with the rough track and lack of good tires that we currently have. I feel that with new tires will have to come heavier springs more than likely.

Also wanted to throw out some new pics of the dash that we are working on.. Its starting to look a little more like a race car and not the meeting place for old retired wires looking to hang around with each other. Still have some decluttering to do but much better.










Oh and 1 pic of the newly painted valve covers.

rayar

iTrader: (1)

You also might try the CP E-mail list. I got a lot of good advice when I built my car. I like the Dash.

jpoeling

Ok so time for some more updates...
For starters the dash is done


Also did some painting on the cage and installed new roll bar padding












We also made a rear spoiler...even though i doubt it does much in the way of performance for autox it looks cool






The spoiler is sitting at 65 degrees right now and is adjustable for road racing later on hopefully.

We also just got our new hoosier tires in today so at the next even we will finally be on fresh rubber which will be a huge improvement from the old 2008 rubber we have been running

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

you would be surprised what a spoiler like that will do. It may be a bit to aggressive in angle right now, but it looks good.

rayar

iTrader: (1)

Hard to really say how much a spoiler really does at autocross speeds but it definatly won't hurt. My CP car had a spoiler built to the limit of the rules and was nearly straight up and down so I don't believe that yours is to aggresive for autocross. I have allways wondered what kind of downforce numbers a spoiler like this would get at lower autocross speeds.

That being said, have you ever seen the spoilers on some ASP vettes and CSP Miatas? Now those are some aggresive rear spoilers.

slow305

iTrader: (2)

Such as:



They say it works, though. Even had to trim a bit off each end because it was too much downforce.

Pat

lunati397

if I only had the money I would love to get into road racing

jpoeling

If the spoiler helps with even putting say 3lbs of downforce on the car then its worth it just cause it looks cool I think. I mean if im not getting paid to do this with sponsors and what not still doesnt mean we cant look good doing it right lol. Im sure that on the road course it will actually do its job

rayar

iTrader: (1)

Somewhat like that, But even that looks a little tame compared to some I have seen. the ones I have seen have a lot of curvature on the ends. almost look like a big elongated Ice cream scoop.

I think anywhere you can gain a tiny advantage is worth it in autocross, the time between top level competitors is so close

gbeaird

iTrader: (1)

The consensus on the FRRAX list is that a Locker will cause a LOT of push that you'll have to tune out of the car. We're running a Tru-Track in our 85, and are very happy with it. It replaced an old 9-bolt that started the one-wheel-peel.

Additionally, you can replace that obnoxious power steering neck extension with a cap from a Chevy S10 or Dodge truck with a Saganaw PS pump. It has a baffle half-way down the stem that prevents fluid slosh. We used to wrap our pump neck with a terry-cloth wrist wrap until we got the cap, now we have no problems with fluid slosh or leakage.

gbeaird

iTrader: (1)

That looks like Mike Johnson's car. Is it?

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

That is a great tip about the cap! Now I just need to find one. And speaking of rear diffs, I ended up rebuilding my trac-lok again but this time I made a couple of .018 shims for the clutch pack. It works great now, set a new best time at my local time attack. I do however think there is something to be said for the fact that the cp national champ runs a locker

slow305

iTrader: (2)

Actually, it's Rod McGeorge's car. Mike and Courtney have just been able to borrow it the last two years (Mike winning ASP last year, Courtney this year). Must be nice!

Pat

jpoeling

Some more updates...decided to try our hand at bodywork and painting. I can now say we suck at autobody work Oh well what we are looking for here is just what my buddy calls the 100 footer. Meaning it looks good from that distance, after all it is a race car not a show car. I still have high hopes for the actual paint looking decent though. It will be white when done with some bright orange stripes outlined in graphite. Hopefully with a little luck we will get all the primer sanded today and be on to laying down the some color. Here are some pics of it

jpoeling

Oh and I thought I would throw out some photos of the car that started this whole cp autox project which made us sell our 350z's that we owned in order to go this route. This car is really an eyecatcher in our opinion and hopefully we can look half as good and go twice as fast









This was taken at the kc regionals in 2010

jpoeling

Got the white sprayed on today. Once it dries we will be trying our hand at doing some racing stripes. Here are a few pics of it in white.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Thats a nasty ugly brute of awesomeness. I dig.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

lovin' the white

jpoeling

Time for some more updates. We finally have the paint complete and we are really happy with how it turned out. here are some pics of it. Ill start with progression pics and end with it at the first race since it was finished.











more pics in the next post below

jpoeling

and continued

















Unfortunately for us it was raining yesterday for our first outing with the new paint and new tires. This was a corvette club autox that they host 2 times a year and due to the rain there were only 15 entries total. We were the only cp car there and the only car on slicks which probably wasnt in our favor but the car did well. Because of the rain they and low attendance they let us run as much as we wanted. Myself and my co-owner only ran 4 times a piece which was enough for us to set the fastest times of the day by more than 2 seconds. The next car closest to us was a VW tdi who ran a total of 17 times. So even though we should with out a doubt beat that car, with that many runs and being on great street rubber in the wet we feel pretty good about how the car did. We tried a new trick today and are trying to decipher how we feel about it. We removed the rear sway bar all together just to see how it was. It had a ton more rear grip on corner exit but produced some understeer in the car. Not sure if we liked it or disliked it yet. Also a little tough to tell exactly how much it changed the car in the wet. Anyway hope you all enjoy the pics.