Eagle223usa

Ok, So I'm starting my 2nd season as an Autocross competitor... I finally had to break down and modernize my wheel tire package. I love my 16" IROCs but they just were not the hot ticket. I came in 5th out of 5 at my last race. I started walking the paddock and looking at the other ESP class cars. Not one was on a stock wheel and tire combo. Not one single Mustang. A good friend of mine updated the rollers on his late model Mustang and picked up 3.8 seconds on me! Dang and I thought we were friends! Anyhow, I got the bigger tires (275/40/17 BFG Sport Comp-2's) and wheels (CTW Motorsport light weight 17x9.5's). All mounted up they are impressive, and WIDE! These got to help. The lug nuts will be here this afternoon and I will have them on the car today. My next race is in the end of June, I plan to gauge my progress by how well I do against the other hot shoes that I normally race against. Anyone else running a Street Prepped car here in any class? A thirdgen T/A holds the title now so I know the car can do it. Does anyone have a suggestion on alignment specs? Results and pics will follow, I plan to use this as a kinda Build/improvement thread. Any advice is appreciated, Thanks.

Eagle223usa

Ok, The new tires and wheels were definitely an improvement. It handles like a totally different car. The grip with the new BFG's is astonishing. I now see what I was lacking. They look very aggressive! This is an earlier pics with stock 16's on it.

Eagle223usa

New tires and wheels.

Eagle223usa

No Autocrossers?

DrNBody

I actually just ordered a set of the same tires for my IROC 16s...they'll be on tomorrow. I'm excited.

Our cars are twins visually (but mines in primer now). The CTWs are pretty hardcore I love them.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

I ran F-stock this year. I think i did very well. Bone stock 91 RS with a 305tbi and 16's. I only have one more race before the 383 gets swapped in. I have had some trouble with my dry rotted 245s but one of the places we race is an airport runway, which always has a tight 180 turn around. I always could pick up a couple tenths when I'd floor it a second sooner than normal and slide the back side out around it.

I'll definetly be running modified class next year with the 383, but I think a set of street/strip tires in 255 and my eaton posi I'm putting in should help traction wise.

Eagle223usa

Well I did finally get to run it at the autumn leaves classic last fall. From the comparison against my buddies SS Cobalt I picked up about 3 seconds. It sticks so much better I had a hard time getting used to it. It has so much rear grip I'm worried about breaking my 10 bolt! The stock wheels are back on for the winter sitting period the new tires and wheels are in the basement staying warm (as per BFG's recommendation). Great improvement to the car, and they look great too.

jim2527

Do you know the weight difference from the stock 16's?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I know stock 91-92 16 rears are 18 or 19 lbs. The fronts are probably a few lbs more.

I have a staggered set of ZR1's, trying to figure out whether to go NT05 or NT555. I dont drive the car THAT much, but I dont want to spend $750+ on tires to wear them out within a year either... But I dont want to spend $600 on tires and barely have more grip than I started out with because Im on rock hard, soft-shouldered commuter tires.... I wish the options werent so restrictive with 17x11s. They were just what I could find.

I wish BFG made G-Force Sports in 315/35/17. I really like them on my 16's, but they are the first version. I imagine the "Comp 2"s are a good bit better.

paul_huryk

Good to hear that you picked up time and (probably) more confidence to push your car harder. I had one novice CMC racer pick up an average of 3.5 seconds a lap in his first race on the 17's he picked up - ended up coming in 2nd place for the race and he was only in his 2nd season of competitive racing.

On my GTA, the difference is night and day - even though the ride is a tiny bit rougher, I love the feeling of grip the car has with the 275s all around.

paul_huryk

I haven't weighed them without the old tires, but my 92 Z28 wheels weigh the exact same with dry rotted Michelin pilots as do a set of the CTW wheels with lightweight Continentals in 275-40. They are either 19 or 20lbs each from that comparison.

plum92_camaro

I'm definitely overdue for wheel and tire upgrade. I enjoyed this thread as i have been looking at those wheels myself and i currently run a slightly staggered BFG set up on my 92 16x8's. 245/50r16 g-force kdw traditional treads(front) and 255/50r16 sport comp 2's on the back. Had really good luck with them over the years at autoX events and the HPDE i did this summer. I do have more understeer on the autoX course than i'd like to have. Not sure if it's the stagger, age of front tires, or driver! I learned a little about my corner entry at the HPDE event that i haven't got to try on the autoX course yet.

Just read this last night. It might look familiar to Paul. Found it to be a good/interesting read about stagger.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=16632

paul_huryk

It could be a few things: different front and rear tires, staggered sizes, and even the front heavy issue.

Some of the racers on our wheels (will be the same for any 275-40-17 tire 3rd gen) have mentioned the reduction in understeer just by moving up in size for the tires. Apparently with the lower level of push, confidence goes up and one can drive the car a bit harder - not to mention the extra grip in general. This applies to autocross and road racing, btw.

Braking improves a god amount too - 60mm more tire in the front really helps out too.

plum92_camaro

I've got it figured that a certain amount of my understeer has to do with my turn in. At the HPDE event i went to i learned real quick if i turned in smoothly i'd get serious understeer. i almost went off the track a couple times. so i started turning in quickly, almost snapping it into the corners. when i did the front tires stuck and i actually got good rotation (seemed like the perfect amount of oversteer) out of the car. Once i got my turn in figured out i was running down and passing most of the cars on the track including a new 5.0 and a 05-09 body Saleen. they could pull on the straights but i carried more cornering speed. I had a few people come over to talk to me about my car cause they couldn't believe how well a 3rdgen camaro was doing. Since this HPDE i haven't gotten to run an autoX event to see if what i've learned helps there too.

The track I usually autoX at is an old go kart track here in town so it never changes like a cone coarse. I really like that cause then i can tell if i'm getting faster. Ive done a few cone courses but i didn't like the way that organization organized their events or how little track time i got for more money than the local course.

I always appreciate a voice of experience. so if you can deduce anything from that i would appreciate it. My set up should be in my vb garage. Front suspension only so far. Waiting to afford the rear. thanks!

paul_huryk

I'm not a suspension expert by any means - more of an application engineer who tries to eliminate weaknesses to get the best performance without violating any sanctioning bodies rules (CMC for example).

More tire on the ground will equal more cornering speed due to increased grip - plus better braking too. This is pretty much standard with most cars under dry conditions.

If you local Mustang guys are surprised about a 3rd gens performance at auto-X, they are new to the game - only the newest generation can handle decent in semi stock form. Fox bodies in CMC are at best, marginally competitive, probably the same for auto-X.

Homer23

I can't believe I missed this.

Anyway, how many competitions have you participated in? The most important item in autocrossing is the driver. Unless you're naturally gifted, you need to do a lot of to get faster.

Eagle223usa

Hey Homer, I'm coming up on my third season. I kind off slacked off last season as my chapter of SCCA Autocrossers has a large quantity of A.H's. I'm thinking about trying "Trackcross" next year. Think of it as high speed autocross on the big track.

Homer23

What suspension mods do you have?

Eagle223usa

Just poly bushings, Koni yellows and tubular rear control arms with an adjustable rear track bar.

DesertFox

I'm finding this to be a common issue.
Same problem here, it's kinda killed my desire to want to participate. I have more fun going to a Good Guys all-American Sunday and running autoX there.
I went to my first track day with a local ASA group. I'm hooked on that now.

Eagle223usa

I totally understand, sorry for the late post.

plum92_camaro

Forgot about this thread. How did the year go with the new wheels and tires?

The BFG sport comp 2's are pretty good tires. I replaced my old, dry, hard fronts with new BFG sport comp 2's (245/50r16). The new tires and fine tuning my setup for the track took another second off my time. The car handled great this year!! I have two friends with similar 5th gens, the one with the BFG sport comp 2's runs 1.5 seconds per lap faster than the one with stock tires.

I'm with you guys, SCCA takes a lot of the fun out of this sport I think. Especially since they are almost twice as much money per event and usually half the track time as the organization I usually run with. The SCCA wastes a lot of time that could be spent racing. I did one SCCA event this year because it was at my local track. I ran in ESP and got whipped by a new Boss 302.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I really like my local SCCA group. We are a small, friendly group. $30 gets you 8 runs.

plum92_camaro

The organization I run with, $25=8 laps, 10 if you're lucky. Several people double register and run 16-20 laps.
SCCA, $35-$40, 4-6 laps.

KMK454

Has ESP changed any? From my understanding, a stock thirdgen whose only mods are a catback, lowering springs, adjustable panhard, bushings, 17x9 wheels, and 275/40/17 would be ESP.

kaos420

I ran 16'' crosslace wheels for autocross with nitto NT o1's for yrs the tire made a big difference in esp.but then my motor went south an put a built 355 in the car an went crazy with suspension mods which booted me to CP class.next yr ill be running 275 40 17 nittos nto1's.

Beater79TA

Personally, I'd replace the NT01's with a 200TW tire and run in CAM where the PAX and competition tends to be friendlier. We ran CP at Nationals once and we were the only car that wasn't a tube chassis non street legal race car.

z28cp

I won't argue that 99% of the CP cars at Nationals aren't street legal. But, I bet you won't find more than 1, maybe 2, in any given year that are tubeframe cars. Tubeframe carries an extra 10% weight penalty. The vast majority of the CP cars do have extensive rollcages and modified suspension pickup points, but underneath they still have factory subframes and such.

Beater79TA

True. most of them retained enough of the original frame to avoid the weight penalty. And were done that way with precise measurements on how far they could go and not get flagged for the penalty.

But we only use SCCA for sound checks now since they run at the only location in the area that will provide free sound checks (they refund your entry fee if you fail sound test before runs start). Other than that we don't run with them any more. Too many Pro-Touring style events that are so much more fun to run.