FJA1791

iTrader: (3)

Took car to Englishtown raceway park for my last outing. Decided to drive car down (120 miles rd trip) due to the fact my tow vehicle had issue with anti freeze leak last minute. I ran footbrake class and was only given 1 time run (11.62) due to large turn out. I ended up with great results making to the final. Car ran consistent 11.60s until semi final and final. I believe trans shifted higher resulting in quicker ET from hot lapping car last 2 rounds. I leave car in drive and I believe shift points may have changed due to warmer trans temp. Overall had a great day made a few bucks. Below is a pic from yesterday's outing. Look forward to 2015 season with plans to put in a power glide transmission for better consistency.

skinny z

Well done and thanks for representing the 3rd gen in a big way.
Question though. A couple actually.
Your sig shows a 4.27 rear gear AND a 700R4. That's a huge multiplier for 1st gear. How in the world do you hook up?
Despite looking for consistency with the powerglide, wouldn't you think that you'll go a little slower by having the engine revving in less than the plateau between peak torque and peak horsepower? Unless of course you've got a great torque converter.
Just wondering.

FJA1791

iTrader: (3)

Thank you skinny z for the kind words. As for your questions.

1. How does car hook? 275/60R15 MT drag radial,air bags V-6 front springs and converter is on the tighter side for combo 3000 stall 10" hooks great every pass 1.62-1.63 deep staged (1.52 shallow) its a fun ride feeling wheel pull off the ground now with better air.

2. Power glide will have a looser converter to make up for less gear. Will go with a 10" 3600-3800 stall. From past experience glide will be a little quicker being lighter and less HP to spin. I will use a manual VB so consistency will be much better with shift point.

Thanks Frank

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i heart that car cool story man

FJA1791

iTrader: (3)

Thank you Matt...do have any plans to get out before end of season?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yes. we are putting a Mu11et Militia meet together at capitol raceway in crofton, md on the 15 of november. it's looking like it's going to be a fantastic turnout. care to join? it's just tnt day, not a track rental.

FJA1791

iTrader: (3)

Would be nice but im done for this season and Just a little far for me...shows about 4hour drive on map quest...thanks for asking. I will look out for the results of your outing.

Frank

skinny z

I like the idea of the 275 tire. Whereas once I could cut a 1.71 60' that seems to have gone away. Not sure why. I've built more power, possibly reduced low rpm torque, added gear but changed tire spec. Now I'm in the 1.8x range and it's killing my ET.
What rpm do you get to foot-braking?
I'd like to swap out my 10" TCI which gives me a 2200 rpm foot brake launch, although it flashes well past 3500 according to the chassis dyno, for a Yank or equivalent. My friends heavyweight 81 Monte Carlo (3700 lbs like my Camaro) knocked better than 2/10ths off his time with just the converter swap (TCI 10" to Yank 9.5" spec'd for the car).

FJA1791

iTrader: (3)

What are the Dyno #s...with your combo you will need more rear gear to get better 60ft times. My converter is a 10" 3000 stall and only footbrakes to 14-1500 before it pushes through.

skinny z

I don't have any numbers for the new build although the old Vortec combo had 290 rwhp/290rwt and went 106 (12.78 a best) in a 3700 lb chassis (with driver). The new engine has approached 109 at the stripe. It's also nearly 2/10ths quicker despite losing a 1/10th in the first 60'. The biggest change was the rear tire. Previously I had a McCreary dirt track tire (26 x 10). Seemed to stick like glue. The ET Streets I'm using now (also a 26 x 10) are about 9 years old. Not many passes on them but they could be past their prime. At one time I could feel the car dead hook, now it slides out of the groove on the launch and then moves again on the 1-2 shift. It doesn't blow the rpm's through the roof and force me to lift but I know the grip isn't like it used to be.

FJA1791

iTrader: (3)

First thing I would do is replace tires with 275/6015 M/T drag radial. Tires that are marginal do not help in trying to dial in your combo. I believe with a new set of tires and a set of 4.27 gears you should be able to go in the 1.60s range sixty ft time resulting in 12.30s--12.20s qt mile times. I don't reccomend a converter for street use over 3600 stall.

FJA1791

iTrader: (3)

update

skinny z

I've had a lot a dialogue regarding going to a drag radial and it seems the vote is split.
That said, I've been eyeing Mickey Thompson's 295/50/16 drag radial II. If only because I have the rims to support them and I like the idea of the taller tire. I just can't imagine having MORE rear gear (going to 4.27 for example) AND the tall 700R4 1st gear AND getting it to hook. Then there's your car. Nice picture.
Do you run a "drag" oriented front shock. Along the lines of 90/10?

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Don't be afraid of gearing. You're nowhere close to 60' times where you should be having traction issues. If you're serious about 60' times, don't handicap the car elsewhere to mask suspension issues. With nothing special, just a stock suspension and good stiff bushings, 1.6X 60's can be routine in a (relatively) short wheelbase 3rd Gen.
Sometimes the harder you hit the tires, the better the instantaneous weight transfer, and the better they stay hooked.
In my Impala, I'm running 4.88 gears with the same trans ratio (4L60E), 29" tires, and cut 1.4X 60's all day long on a decent prepped track. On the absolute worst track, it sill 60's in the low 1.6X's. And trust me, that's a much tougher task in a longer wheelbase car.
If you want to stay mild gears for streetability, that's entirely another matter.
I think we've talked before: think about a better converter, like your friend's Yank

FJA1791

iTrader: (3)

I am not useing drag struts or shocks (originals) V-6 springs are very helpful with weight transfer. Was also wondering why your car weighs so much...my race weight (with me @ 180 and full tank 3425) I haven't removed anything from my car to lighten except power st...running an s10 manual box

skinny z

I have to thank Frank for the loan of his thread.
Thanks Frank.
For what it's worth here's my suspension setup:
Intrax springs for about a 2" drop.
Front: Stock components, all new. Del-Alum A-arm bushings, IROC-Z sway bar with poly bushings. Sensa-Trac Shocks.
Rear: Dana 44 w/3.73 Trac-Lok. Spohn LCA relocation brackets with Lakewood LCAs in lowest hole. IROC-Z rear sway bar. UMI adjustable torque arm. All poly bushings.
Sensa-Trac shocks. Drag Bags typically preloaded + 10 psi right hand side.
ET Streets 26 x 10 (old) with best 60' coming at 12 psi (down from a 20 psi starting point).
It's a street car/highway cruiser and that isn't about to change.
Best 60' with this setup has been 1.81. Previous best with less gear and a different tire was 1.71.
It points to the rear tire having gone away but just marginally. It doesn't spin to the red line but the car definitely moves at the hit and the 1-2 gear change.
Spotters say the car doesn't squat (much) with the best results having the gap at the rear fender staying consistent and the front rising (as you might expect). There's not a lot of weight transfer but that can be attributed to the shocks I would think.
I like the idea of a radial tire as that's a lot more comfortable to drive on the street but I will say that I'll keep the same arrangement including tire and try out my new home track next season. Then I'll go from there.

skinny z

No weight reduction to speak of other than the glass hood. Spohn sub-frame connectors. Dana 44. Iron heads. Complete exhaust to the tail-pipe. Full interior but manual windows. No spare or jack.
Arguably 3650 with it's 200 lbs driver and a half tank of fuel (weighed on several occasions at the local landfill).

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

I'd like to address the bolded items:
1) intrax lowering springs are meant to improve cornering, i can imagine they don't promote weight transfer well

2) (b) front sway bar limits front suspension articulation, which decreases the ability to weight transfer. *new* (the A part of 2) front struts are great for a street car that rides nice on the highway, but the valving is such that it limits front suspension articulation and weight transfer too much for slower cars like ours. simply a worn out factory strut would do you better.

3) you might try 1 whole up. i've done a lot of looking on my own car and i've seen that in the bottom hole, the tire gets smashed by the aggressive IC created by the extreme angle of the lca

4) OLD et streets. drag tires are replaced on a seasonal basis for me. i know guys that go 2 or 3 with no issues. i know guys that go 2 or 3 events and replace them. the fact is, that even with good tread depth, a tire dries with age. the oils in the tire are part of what makes it work. once they're dried out, they don't work. additionally, ET Streets are a very soft sidewall bias ply. at 3650lbs, 12psi of pressure, and the aggressive IC, i'd imagine you're CRUSHING this tire, and it's beginning to fold over itself.

for your case, i'd consider dropping the front sway bar before the track, putting the lca's up one hole, and getting a set of brand new radials and try again

skinny z

Interesting thought about the LCAs. I had considered but what I've observed, is that at rest the LCA is parallel or even somehat lightly higher at the axle end. I've preloaded the air bags tio bring the back of the car up and improve the agularity as much as I could. It could be though, that doing that (load the air bags) and moving the LCA mounting point would improve things. I never thought of tire folding up and with 10 psi (less than the 12 psi I posted earleir) it's entirely likely.
I had thought about the sway bar too.
And I agree, it's certainly time for new tires. Just have to be DOT as now I can actually drive to the track in race trim. It's only 18 miles from the house. (Oh yeah!)

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

measure the angle of the lca in relation to the rest of the car. i'm interested in what you actually have. also, torque arm length has a lot to do with IC as well, and i'm running a jegster arm, which is very short. i had to move the lca up to keep from killing the tires. if you're using a long arm, you may be OK where you are.

skinny z

I'll see if I can't get a few pictures before I bury the car for the winter. I don't have my angle finder or my digital level with me at my new address.
Yes, it is a long torque arm. Still attached to the trans too.