84-Z28-Canada

Hi guys, just wanted to get the opinions of some more experienced racers. I just got through my first season of drag racing! I bracket raced the car in the street series at my local track (Cayuga, ON for Canadians!) and I absolutely fell in love with it. I even won a round or two! So, needless to say I'm completely addicted. My best time was 14.55 at 100 mph (getting zero traction, I need slicks bad). I want to run in the 13s with no nitrous next season, then maybe spray it into the 12s. My question for you guys is: can you help me pick my winter upgrades? Here's my set-up:

Stock Suspension and rear axle (3.23 open, 7.5" with 26 spline)
-> I know this is an obvious weak point. I've been considering going with a Detroit true trac with 28 spline, good axles, and a c-clip delete. I'd leave the gears, the car is still street driven.

Motor: 383ci Stroker, Lunati (.489/.504), Edelbrock Performer RPM heads and intake, Edelbrock Performer 750cfm. Uses a 2400 stall converter behind
--> Love my motor set-up, feel like it works pretty good. The upgrades I've considered are 1.6 ratio roller rockers to get more from the cam, a taller, single plane intake (think Holley Street Dominator) and maybe a Holley 850 Double Pumper (in addition to intake and rockers)

TIRES: Either way, the thing is running slicks next year.

Thanks a million guys, any suggestions are good!

AlkyIROC

You probably have enough power already to get into the 13's but you need traction. Sticky, track only tires are a must providing a slick is allowed in the class you run in.

You can spend all the money on the diff upgrades but the tiny ring and pinion can still fail. Since you're already willing to spend money on upgrading the diff, spend a little more and go right to an aftermarket diff. That way you're only spending the money once.

Too much cost? run the current 10 bolt as it currently is and when it breaks, decide if a better diff is worth it.

1.6 rockers are just a poor mans cam swap. Just buy a cam with the desired lift. Just make sure the heads, pistons etc can handle the increased lift.

84-Z28-Canada

Hey thanks for your input! I think I have enough power to run in the 13s too, but I need to get that 60ft down. The way is definitely sticky tires. I have MT slicks for the car, so I'll get them mounted up on steelies and swap them on when I get to the track. I agree that a cam swap would be ideal, maybe go to the higher level Lunati (I've been impressed with them). Good plan for the diff, just go with this one til it breaks. I'm not launching hard really, brake stand it to 2000 rpm, let off at the third amber, and I can't floor it until at least 60 ft without breaking loose. I'll still take it easy off the line with the slicks, but hopefully I can get on it a little quicker without breaking the tires loose.
I've been thinking of putting some LCARB on it, boxing the LCAs and putting stiff bushings in to up the traction. Let me know what you guys think!

Beeman

Is this a street car also? The rear end is a major investment but you'll have to do it. I'd spend my money on gaining traction, period. You've got more than enough motor already. I wouldn't waste money on 1.6's but if you do remember to ck valve to piston clearance since you're raising lift. If it's a street car I wouldn't go single plane and 850DP. If it's race only then OK but all you'll gain is more traction problems.

84-Z28-Canada

I gotta agree with you there, I spent all the money so far on engine, so I SHOULD have enough power to get into the 13s. For sure I have to do the rear end, it would be nice if I was able to get you more season out of the stocker, then I can do it next winter properly (aftermarket moser or something). SO, gaining traction! First, gotta run slicks, second probably LCARB and and stiff bushings. Any other traction tricks from the pros?

84-Z28-Canada

And yes, plated street car! I ran the street class this year, so no slicks allowed there. However, if i can run a few test n tune days with the slicks and I am confident with it, then I'll run the modified class instead where slicks are allowed

Beeman

If you buy slicks the rear will let you know when it's time to replace it! On a stock street body I'd say 8" wheels will fit. I have 10's with 5.5"BS but I've worked the inner wheel wells and cut the frt.s and boxed them along with cutting where the spring mounts. but I've had 29x12" slicks under it.
If you want to stay on the street I'd say an adjustable torque arm and adj. lower control arms would be a start. Quick performance has a bracket to put a 9" under one with the torque arm. My 9" is from a 71 Torino and it fit with no shortening.

84-Z28-Canada

That's what I'm worried about in the coming season! I think if I run the slicks next summer I'll end up breaking something. I don't launch all that hard (2000 rpm) and I don't mash the throttle as soon as i see the green, all that plus an automatic trans and I'm hoping the rear will last the summer. If I understand correctly, the automatics soak up a lot of the impact and end up saving the rear end, where as the manuals send everything back all at once and tend to break stuff a little easier. Going back to my thought about the taller single plane intake and bigger ratio rocker arms... would something like that work better for my traction? Assuming the single plane is meant for more top end and less low end torque, this would let me launch and actually gain traction, and then put the power down when I'm already rolling. Does this logic make sense to anyone else?

Wolfster14

Along with the torque arm, and or control arms, you could also throw in a set of adjustable shocks to help transfer some weight. That would also help your traction problem.
It all has to work together.
Then you could take advantage of the power you already have.

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

I think your on the right track with your current plan. I would say just make sure to go with a 26" tall slick with the 3.23 gears.

I ran my 7.5" rear down to 1.6 60' times, but my weight was only 2950...

Beeman

No, not really. You keep looking at motor, like most people. The secret is in chassis and suspension. If you want quicker time slips leave the motor alone and start making the car hook. Taking off 2 plug wires will take power away also, but counterproductive. If you're going to the track you are going to break something, everyone does. It's the price of performance.

84-Z28-Canada

Yeah I have no doubt I'm going to break something, my only hope is that it's not an axle or c-clip at 100 mph. I think the slicks are step one, and I already have those so I guess we'll see how much I can pick up with a slick. I just put brand new springs in the back, but left the shocks alone. I'll look into getting some adjustable shocks for power transfer. I think i'm hearing everyone loud and clear... leave the motor alone! Or at least until the car hooks, then see what I can gain from there. I'll have to update next season with new time slips.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'm running low-13s at our local track, 3400lb race weight, with 3.73 gears in a 10-bolt and 3600 stall. I drove it to work today. Of course, it's an LS1, not a SBC, but I wouldn't think that would make that big of a difference considering your combo.

My 10-bolt is about as maxed as you can get - Detroit Truetrac, 28 spline aftermarket axles, aluminum support cover, welded tubes (not that important with a torque arm suspension), LSA relocation brackets. The LSAs have been boxed, poly bushings all around. It's had two "issues" in 6 years: 1) the previous Eaton posi spit out clutch plate tabs, so the Truetrac was installed; 2) after installation of the Truetrac, the gears whined a lot more, I suspect it wasn't set up quite right, because the gears gave out about a year later. It was put back together with Richmond gears, quieter, no issues since. However, further power enhancement is planned, so a Moser 12-bolt has been obtained.

All this is at 5800' elevation. When I've had it at lower elevations, it's run low-12's - even clicked off a 11.82 one pass. On a 10-bolt. Guess I should also mention I drive on the street on highway radials, switch to the DOT slicks at the track.

Are DOT slicks allowed in your street class? I'm required to have DOT tires in several of the classes I run, but they don't make you run on highway tires. Check your rules, might be the case for you as well. In that case, you should be in the 12s with that engine.

You didn't mention your cam duration or where you shift, but I'm guessing your 2400 stall is holding you back as well. Of course, without more traction, you wouldn't be able to use more stall, anyway.

Doubt you can use 850 CFM. You'd have to be shifting at 7500 RPMs with 100% VE to make that worthwhile. I'm guessing your cam runs out well before that. A 750 would support a 383 to 6700 RPMs. I'd get rid of that Performer carb, though. And, if you go single plane intake, you'll need 4000 stall - minimum.

Like Alky said, though, spending money on a 10-bolt that will eventually break isn't a good long-term strategy. I only kept putting money in mine because I didn't have time to do an upgrade to a real rear end, so bit the bullet just to get it back to the track. I could have bought a new 12-bolt with brakes (a new 9-inch for sure) with what I've spent on the 10-bolt, but that's been spread over many years. I found the 12-bolt used locally and jumped on it.

Okay, summary for your combo as I see it: 750 double pumper Holley (I'll presume keep your current intake until you give more details on your cam), 3500 stall (again, need cam details), 3.73 gears in a better rear end with posi (personally love the Truetrac), sticky tires - that combo should easily be in the 12s. And still daily drivable.

84-Z28-Canada

Wow Five-7, that's a wealth of knowledge, thank you very much. The cam is the lunati 60103, so the details are as follows:
https://www.lunatipower.com/CamSpecC...rtNumber=60103

.489/.504 lift
268/276 adv duration
110 LSA

recommended power band 1800-6200.

I have been shifting at 4000 RPM because this is the max speed where I still get a hard shift. Any higher and the trans starts to slip before shifting, and I don't want to hurt anything by running up to 7000 rpm. I have swapped a performance servo into the trans, which helped, but at high rpm it still slips a little when shifting. I hear a transgo shift kit should help that. Also, I have a way better converter on the shelf (Precision 3000 stall, 10") but it's for a 30 splne input shaft 700r4, and I have the older style 27 spline. Maybe a swap to a 4l60 from the 90s camaros would help too (I understand they have better internals as well, although mine does work well as is). That, or get another converter made for mine that goes to 3200 or something.

Yes, my street class does allow for something like a MT Drag Radial, so I'll definitely be swapping to something like that. I do have two sets of used 26" slicks, which would be fun for test and tune, but illegal for the street class. I guess I could also run modifed if I want the slicks, but then I think I need a roll cage. anyhow, yes, DOT drag style radials are allowed. For the rear end, I think I will do anything that's transferable to a better rear end for now ie: boxing the lca, lcarb, and stiff bushings. then save up for a moser 12 bolt, or a strange s60. Nothing like that pops up around my area, so it will likely be another season before I can get a hold of one. thanks a million for all the help guys

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yep, you don't need anything more than the Performer RPM and a 750 CFM (I'd still recommend going from the Edelbrock to a Holley DP).

You might want to upgrade that tranny before anything else. The 27 spline input is the front pump, upgrading it in your current tranny is fairly straight forward. A later '88-up TH700 would also be an upgrade. 4L60 is just the later GM designation for the TH700R-4 (although the later ones were improved). 4L60E is a different story, though, as they require computer control that the 3rd gen ECM isn't up to.

Prior to the LS1, my Camaro had a 350 with a rebuilt '83 TH700 with 30-spline front pump, Transgo shift improver kit, .50" relief valve, and Vette servo. Held up well. It's still running for the next owner as far as I know.

Cool. Stickier tires make a big difference.

You shouldn't need a 6-point roll bar until you're running 11.49 or quicker, but local or other-than-NHRA rules may be in play here.

Not a bad plan, but the open carrier will keep you from taking full advantage of the package.

That's what this Board is for.

(And I drove the Camaro to work again today...)

84-Z28-Canada

Hi all, just thought I'd check back and update. I got a Holley 770cfm Street Avenger for the motor, and got it running happily for the street. Haven't been able to work on the car much, because it's been in the body shop over the winter. While it was parked in my driveway, a wheel flew off some lady's car and completely ruined my driver's side quarter panel. So long story short, the whole car is being painted new. Can't wait to show up to the track with it! I can see already that the Holley is going to be a little easier to tune at the track, so I'll buy a kit that includes jets, PVs, Secondary springs, etc. and have some fun with it. Getting some wheels from the local scrappers so i can put my slicks on as well. Most of my time and $$ has been going into another car, I got a 1973 Dodge Charger from a local who had all the body and paint done, but no drivetrain. Built a 440 big block for it, and put a 4 speed stick behind it. Cool street cruiser, not going to run this one at the track. Anyway, TnTs start in a few weeks!! Here's a pic of the Charger if you guys were interested...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The Street Avenger is probably better than the Edelbrock, but a double pumper is the better choice unless you need to limit power coming off the line - which I doubt you'll need once you get decent traction.

Since you have it, though, I'd suggest a different secondary tuning method than springs. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-63-1/overview/ This is much easier to use, and in my opinion, is the way Holley should have done it from the beginning.

(That Charger is a spittin' image of one of my track nemesis's car...)

84-Z28-Canada

Thanks for the advice Five7! I haven't seen that adjustable secondary mechanism before, that's definitely the route I'll go. Right now I do have to limit power off the line because I'm gaining 0 traction, it's just a smoke show. But, you're right, hopefully with slicks or drag radials that will be a thing of the past. The car has been in the body shop all winter because some lady thought it was a good idea to let her front wheel and tire fly off her car and cave in the side of my camaro (nobody was hurt). BUT that means that the car will be brand new with all new paint for race season. As per the transmission talk earlier in the thread, after I get some traction would it be reasonable to change the pump in my transmission to accept the 30 spline converter and up my stall? or not worth it on this old trans, just get a different trans entirely? Looking forward to turning these hypotheticals into reality. As for the charger being your Nemesis' car... that guy has great taste!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

9 out of 10 here on TGO would probably tell you to get a later TH700 core to rebuild. I didn't have any trouble with mine ('83), but my 350 probably didn't have the umpf your 383 has.