Nick Crosby

I need your guys help Getting my camaro in the low 9's in the 1/8th. I am putting in a crate 350 which without doing any mods should get me 250 Hp flywheel. That alone should get me close. But can I do anything else to help my cause? Car has 350 Trans dont know what converter and everything else is stock. Rear is 2.72 or 3.43 not sure. Any help would be appreciated.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Low 9's 1/8 mile is only like high 14's. That's an almost stock type ET.

Gears.. You want 3.23 to 3.73, 3.42 would be a prefect middle ground. 2.72 aint going to cut it.

Sticky tires, put on some drag radials

Good exhaust... Headers, aftermarket Y pipe, good cat back system and if your engine is making 250 HP you should be running low 9's in 1/8 mile with no prob

brettr81

First, I would verify what you already have in the car. If you start throwing money at something and buying parts without knowing what will work with what you already have.

Most cars came with 2.73 gears unless it was a manual, v6 or 9 bolt.

350 trans didn't come in these, it would either be the 200 or 700r4

Be careful with the 350 crate engines, a lot are of the smogger low compression design of the 70s variety. Compression ratio is important for making power. Which engine are you looking at or did you get?

Low 9's should be easyish with mainly just headers, and a good matching Y-pipe, or just slap on a turbo.

However, without knowingly if you are going carbed, TBI, TPI or some after market FI system, vacuum advance or computer controlled distributor. No one can really tell you what changes you need to make without the starting point or guidelines.

Tell us your plans and I'm sure the people here can get you where you are going.

rb85TA

One good way to know what you have, is to completely ( and I mean completely! ), dismantle the car.
This gets you intimately knowledgeable with YOUR car.
Also, allows you to get rid of ALL the things that you do NOT need, thus lightening the car as you go. A lot of the stuff that you don't need can be sold to people who want their car to be 100% original /stock.
I don't see you going very fast with a 2.73 geared rear end ( excluding a turbo,supercharger, blower setup ), if this is what is in your car.... remove the entire rearend, sell it and buy something that will work with a 3.73 or lower gear set, like a Dana 44,S60,Mosier 12 bolt. A good posi will carry you deep into 9's (1/8th) , with no problem. ... but I would urge you to look into at least a True Trac style or Detroit Locker.
If you can find a set of good shorty headers with at least a 1&3/4" primary tube that works with a good 3" Y pipe, that would do nicely, but their are long tube headers available (ground clearance can be an issue with long tubes, so do your research before you buy ).
Depending on where you live, you may or may not be able to get rid of the cat, if you can.... then I would. If not, buy a free Flo design with a 3" in/out & run a single 3" pipe back to a 3-3.5" in / out bullet muffler & a 3.5" turn down right in front of the rearend .
Drag radials as wide as you can fit.
I'd look at a cam swap straight out of the box & a goodintake & carb.
This is a lot.... I KNOW, ( & MANY will say to much), but keep in mind that you are going end up here anyways & the more you can get done now. ... the less you have to do later. ALL of these things listed will help you, if not get you where you want to be.... or better.
Good luck, more importantly. ...
HAVE FUN!

Nick Crosby

Sorry Here what is on the car now. 305 SBC, 350Trans, 7.5 rear end, 600 holley carb with intake and heddman headers 1 1/2 dia. Car runs 10.40's in the 1/8th mile so I only believe I am pulling 165 HP to the wheels. My goal is to eventually be running mid 7's 1/8th mile but I am going to take it in stages. More like 2 year Stage. I want to get the car running low 9's this year.

rb85TA

I completely understand, it's not just time, it's money.
Have you bought the engine yet ( 350 crate engine )?

Nick Crosby

I have not bought the engine yet. Also can the 7.5 handle going in the mid 7's? or do I need to just put in a 12 bolt or 9"?

rb85TA

Some say yes, some say no on the rearend, the cost to make it live ,compared to buying a better rearend is where I go for another rearend ( you can rebuild the stocker cheap, but then you'll blow it up & either rebuild it again & again, or replace it. .. either way it cost more in the long run ).
You really need to answer 1 simple question : what do you want to do with the car in the end ( all out race, serious strip/street, or a solid fun street /strip car)?

Nick Crosby

Eventually I want it to be a strip car, but as I am upgrading it will still be a street/strip car.

rb85TA

Then, my recommendation is get the best rearend you can afford ( sell,trade whatever you can to get it), 9" is the way to go IMO, easy to swap third members & part's are plentiful.
Next, question : what is your budget for the engine?

Nick Crosby

I Have $2,500 to spend this year on the car, Hopefully another 2,500 next year.

rb85TA

If you shop smart, you can buy a decent engine that you can build up as you go for that.
And some subframe connectors.
Hmmm, I'm a working guy so I know how frustrating it is. ... but honestly, I'd buy the bolt-on stuff first ( subframe connectors are weld in but definitely needed, if you don't have them already. ... adjustable LCA'S, panhard bars, torque arm & tires, as well as exhaust ), then save your money.
You already know that it's not going to happen overnight, so, build a solid foundation first. Take your time and build it right the first time.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

A limited slip differential..$400, Vortec 350..$2000..used intake $100.. A good start.

rb85TA

Yes, it would be. .. but if you can't put the power to the ground, you still loose.
It's very possible for him to run 9's in the 1/8, with the power plant he has.
By, lightening the car & improving it's ability to use all the power it makes.
Just rather see guy's build it once from the ground up, than 3-4 times. .. just to end up in the same place for more money in the long run.
JMHO

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Hear ya. I once when I was younger dumped $ and effort in a 305 and still had a high 14 sec car in the mid 9s in the 1/8 mi. It was very frustrating especially when my dad and everybody else said "told u so". Sure you can get a 305 to run but not cost for cost as a 350. He will probably need drag radials, will probably shatter some rear-ends etc. When you race you will spend $ forever and will forever be breaking stuff that's for sure

brettr81

Change your gears, subframe connectors, tubular lcas and pangard bar and you'll be close and car will handle and hook better. Get a 4th Gen rear from a junkyard or Craigslist, shouldn't be too much. Panhard, lcas and 4th Gen rear could all be had for under $500 (could be more, depends on the yards around you and what they have an charge).

Shop around for a decent short or long block, make sure everything is torqued down right and assembled properly before install. Or if it is only temp, just find a good running used 350 off Craigslist. You can get a running used one for around $500. Remove the oil pan and clean it up, make sure its all good and throw it in. Before you put it in, you can figure out which cam will you suit your goals, and throw that in before putting in the engine. Then figure out which heads, intake and carb will match and put those on as you get the money, that way you can still drive the car as you piece it together.

Then if the 350 seems too slow for what you want and the 10 bolt seems to be weaker than you want, you haven't sunk your 2 year $5k budget into it. If that used block holds up and you're happy with it, awesome.

rb85TA

Yep, that's why I've suggested what I have. .. solid foundation (lightening the car & suspension, tires and exhaust ), thensave his money to build a good solid engine.
The 305 with tuning, the car lightened, good exhaust, subframe connectors, adjustable suspension and drag radials. ... he will be easily in the 9's in the 1/8th ( his goal for this year ).

rb85TA

Yep, he can run across good deals on Craigslist, he can also spend the time & money. .. and end up worse off than he started. Not arguing with you, but you know it's a gamble when buying used stuff.

brettr81

Even buying new/rebuilt engines is a gamble if you don't check it out if you don't check the torquing and make sure it's lubed properly before install. It sounds too me, that this is something he intends on tinkering with for a couple of years slowly building it up as he drives and enjoys it. Checking the bottom end and compression of a motor isn't awfully difficult.

For him and how he intends to use it, he may end up going through a couple different rear end gears before he figures out what he likes better.

Getting a used 350 as long as it's good and not trashed, everything will transfer over if he decides to stay SBC with his new engine after.

Who knows, maybe he'll get the 350 in there, put in 3.73s and be like, "Crap, this is still too slow!!!" and decide he's going to throw in a big block or an LS engine. Then he would definitely want a 9" rear.

rb85TA

You are right, just sayin to get to his goal, he really doesn't need to change the engine right now ( unless it's already junk), that's all

brettr81

If you don't have a clear build plan, and figure out exactly what you need to match everything accordingly you are just wasting money and time. Unless, it is something that you are doing just to build up experience, figure out if you really like turning wrenches, swearing, and busting your knuckles as much as you thought you might.

My assumption because of the question, is that he is not very experienced in building, but he wants to learn. Learning experiences while building an engine is VERY expensive, torque something incorrectly, cheap out on a part, forget to put lube on something, don't double check play, and BAM, you just wasted a few grand.

Budget builds can be done nice, with used parts, if he knows what to look for and check. Someone that has little to know experience, it's probably better to go the budget route. How many times have you seen on here, and on Craigslist people selling parts and projects because they bought the stuff and either didn't have time, make time or just realized they didn't like doing it as much as they thought.

I do agree though. You shouldn't go cheap, but you should also build experience, get it running, meet your goals, be proud of the work you've done to your car to meet those goals. Keep improving your skills and use that to motivate you.

brettr81

I agree entirely with what you say. Hell, if I were building my car for the strip, I'd throw out pretty much the entire drive train, engine, trans and rear, but that's just me.

Nothing I hate more than seeing what was once a car that could've been easily fixed up to be a nice driving, good looking car, all torn apart, being sold for parts or a half finished project.

rb85TA

AGAIN, I'm NOT arguing with you.
You are right, ok.
If you slow down for just a second, and actually read all of the post... I think you will see that, I simply am trying to get him where he wants to be now, but also keeping in mind his end game goals.
Just, trying to get him to look at the big picture, spend his money smartly now so he's not spending more money doing things 3 or 4 times.
AGAIN, his goals... not mine.
I honestly think that we (you & I are really trying to help him, so let's help him ).

rb85TA

I hear ya ! And totally agree

brettr81

Never thought you were, sorry. I like to over explain everything. I was just trying to make it clear that we both agree lol.

rb85TA

No problem at all, just seen to many people trying to out do each other and loose sight of trying to help the OP.
LOL, we're good

Nick Crosby

I appreciate your guys help. So your saying if I add Suspension tune the 305 and drag radials I should get in the 9's? With the HP I have now I dont see the tires spinning on the track?

rb85TA

With a killer tune, subframe connectors, a good tune on the rear suspension and tires... yes I believe you can. Check out the rearend and see what gear is in it.if it still has the tag attached to a bolt in the rear cover, it's probably never been gone through ( most guy's don't bother putting it back on ). If not, get a paint marker & draw about a 2-3" line parallel to the ground about a foot in front of the rear U-joint. .. then mark the tire at 6 o'clock (this way you can lay on the ground,rotate the tire & see both marks at the same time ), and see what you get.

Nick Crosby

Sweet thanks for the replies. I checked under the car and in a quick inspection it looks like the lower control arms are not stock. They appear to be a block design but I was not under long to inspect further.

rb85TA

That's a start, a solid LCA is better /stronger than the stock open one's, but still prefer the tune ability of an adjustable LCA'S.
Do you know how to count tire revolution to drive shaft revolutions, for gear ratio?

Nick Crosby

No I do not I will have a to check that maybe this weekend.

rb85TA

It's really not complicated and won't take long, if you have a friend help it's easy as hell
First, block front tires. Then jack up rearend, so that both tires are off the ground. Next , rotate tires and see if they both turn and turn in the same direction. If they turn same direction, make the mark's I told you, turn the tire 1 compete revolution and count how many times the drive shaft turns.
Example, if drive shaft turns 2 and 3/4 times = 2.73, if just a hair past 3 turns = 3.08, 3&1/4 turns = 3.23, etc.
If, the tires turn opposite of each other, lower car to the ground, move jack so that it only picks the tire off the ground that you have marked, then same as above.
If you have some one help watch/count, then mark the tire at 12 o'clock and the quarter panel at the same time, you want to have as close to perfect 1 rotation as possible ( you can use chalk or grease pencil ).

rb85TA

The car sounds like you might have gotten lucky & someone's already started putting good part's on it before you bought it.
The more you don't have to change, the more you can put into other areas.

brettr81

Do you happen to know of the history of the car? What was done to it, what intake and headers are on it exactly? If not take pics of the LCAs, the intake, the engine, anything that you are unsure of. A lot of people on here can help identify parts. Also, if you happen to know what your rpms are at 70 mph that would help too. Without changing the engine, with proper spark advance, carb tuned properly, good gears, and torque converter, you should get close to your goal. The stock 2.73 gears on most of these cars suck.

rb85TA

Yep

brettr81

Also, never trust what previous owners have said they put into the car. My first 87 Camaro, the PO told me it had a Turbo 350 trans, and a 350, it had a 700r4 and a 305. So if you didn't put a part on a car yourself, always verify what it actually is. Even the few times I've taken stuff to a shop and had them do work on it, they have claimed to have put parts on that they didn't.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

$2500 budget does not get you far, so shop wise and think before you buy.

#1 thing on list should be weld in sub frame connectors.

7.5" rear WILL NOT handle low 7's. I broke two upgraded rears running 11.40s in 1/4, (7.35 in 1/8), but 9's would be no prob.

Don't waste your budget yet on a ford 9" rear, it's not needed yet.

If you want to do a 350 swap, find a wrecked lower mileage 96-00 truck/suv on cragislist and get the 5.7L L31 vortec 350 from it for $400-800. Sell your intake, heads, buy a summit stage II or III vortec carb intake, fel pro 1094 head gaskets, fel pro ms98000T intake gaskets. Stock that engine made 255 HP. Do a LT4 hot cam swap and you will end up with 325 HP for under $1500.

Put a 2600-2800 stall converter in it (PTC in AL.)
SFC
Drag radials in the 26-27" tall range and 9 to 10" wide

Check your rear gear. If it's not a 3.23 or better... Beg, borrow, trade, buy a rear with a 3.23-3.73 gear

Now you have a low to mid 8 sec 1/8 mile setup and all of that can be done for $2500

Nick Crosby

What rpm should I be shifting at?

rb85TA

That's gonna be dictated by your cam,head's, intake, carb & exhaust. ... your setup.

brettr81

Nick, what exactly is your setup? Pics if possible, please.

rb85TA

Also remember, that rpm will be dictated by gears ( combined trans & rearend ) , as well as tire size.

uncle joe

nick, my 88 formula runs 9.0's, with 1.88 60 foot times, and it went 14.25 very first pass. thats on stock suspension and cheap Sumic tires , made in Indonesia. its a 355, thats had .20 taken off the block decks, edelbrock heads #6085, mild comp cam #300-8 450/480 lift, full roller valvetrain, 24 #/hrs injectors, headers, no cat, 2200/2600 converter, 3:73 gears and detriot Truetrac differential, a chip from PMC of North Carolina and its spot on. i truly thought it would run like 13.60's, so its time to add suspension parts. its been a 3 year build including many road trips for parts. Dont set your goals too high, youre setting yourself up for major disappointment.

brettr81

First step is knowing what you have. Next step is figuring out where you want to be. After that it's figuring out which combos will best get you there, and work with any future goals.

rb85TA

brettr81, that's Exactly what I was trying to convey to Nick in the beginning.
Their are many different avenues that can get you to your immediate goal. But, picking the best route, to get you where you want to end up. ...that may require something all together different.
You really need to figure out where you stand now, then seriously decide where you want to end up. Then you can devise a plan to get you there, without spending your hard earned money 4 times over to get there.

rb85TA

Any updates?

Nick Crosby

No updates as of now. Hopefully plans are to start going through the car this week. I will update on everything or anything I find.

rb85TA

Right on, looking forward to it.

brettr81

Any updates?