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Organized Drag Racing and AutocrossDrag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.
I'm building up my car which will be a street legal, pro-touring oriented car which will see some track days and some 1/4 mile days. Street driving will be occasional on nice days but I'm sure I'll drive it like I stole it. (Safely of course.) Everything is being built new from the ground up. The last step is my engine. I am wondering if I should go 500hp N/A, or about 690hp supercharged. Centrifugal would be what I would go with. I'd like to get some input from people who are doing the same or similar with their cars. What I've seen so far are these, but I can't find much info on many others.
The ICE-9 Camaro is a track monster and he runs N/A with about 400hp (I think. Not certain of that number.)
NufNuffZ28 has a BEAUTIFUL ride and he runs a Vortech supercharger putting 600hp to the wheels!
And lastly, Justina Schwartz has her custom built autocross Camaro with 400hp N/A.
So what is ideal for what I want to do? My suspension and drivetrain will be able to handle either setup easily.
Thanks for any input. And like I said, I'd really appreciate advice from those who do pro-touring and autocross, or who have the same or similar projects and goals as I do.
Last edited by 85projectZ28; 11-24-2016 at 04:52 PM.
And by the way, the engine build will be appropriate to the type of induction. So the N/A would have a CR of about 10.5:1. Supercharged will have forged crank and 8:1 CR.
I'd choose the NA option.
It may provide you with double the seat time of a blower car.
Spend your blower money and time by first sorting out the cars suspension, handling, brakes and safety equipment. At the same time perfect your AX or track day driving skills. After you are satisfied with the car at NA hp and you want a new challenge then add the blower.
Just having a blower adds so many issues. Drive ability or how the throttle comes on and trying to dissipate heat. You might find under pressure the weakest seals on your engine will begin to leak. Save those hassles for after the rest of the car is sorted so you can dedicate all you resources just to the blower issues.
If you were just doing straight line competition I'd go for the blower.
Trying to get the blower car drive able on a tight AX track is not going to be easy.
The NA car will behave much better and might run better AX lap times.
If you are new driver to AX or track days you want to start out with less hp and learn car control and driving basics. After you as a driver are bored with 400hp then jump in the deep end and bring on the blower.
My cars are all NA. I can race 10 times a year with NA. With the blower you might only get out a few times a year as your racing budget will be going into your engine and not everything else on the car or on your driving training.
The only reply so far, and quite frankly, probably the best. Thanks Passmenow! That makes a lot of sense. I'll check out that article today. I appreciate your input.
comments after Matt's article were interesting.
First I like a good seat and belts, safety equipment,
then suspension, brakes, drive train/engine.
later re gear it for stump pulling blower motor.
It's easy for me to spend your money.
You'll need to get some good rubber under that thing to hook 500 hp. I like the simplicity and reliability of a na motor. A good 355 or even 383 will make that fairly easily. The 383 will make abit more lower to mid range torque while making that same hp, so decide what you may need there.
So that article was good and very informative. I agree that most people mismatch their mods. I'm not one of them. My car is a complete performance rebuild. I definitely think that the driver mod is the best one to do so... I am absolutely going NA for now. That's a $7,000.00+ difference in my build! With that, I can go to a racing school or two and master my skills. Well, maybe not master, but improve vastly. I consider myself a VERY good street driver. Been doing it since I was 12 and have never wrecked. Thank God! Not being cocky, but I feel I have been blessed with a talent and a narural instinct. But as far as autocross goes, I have ZERO experience. So thanks again for the input and advice! Probably saved me a ton of money and mountains of headache.
You'll need to get some good rubber under that thing to hook 500 hp. I like the simplicity and reliability of a na motor. A good 355 or even 383 will make that fairly easily. The 383 will make abit more lower to mid range torque while making that same hp, so decide what you may need there.
Well mine is going to be a 388 and the tires will be 275 and 285 Nitto NT05's so I should have plenty of bite.
So that article was good and very informative. I agree that most people mismatch their mods. I'm not one of them. My car is a complete performance rebuild. I definitely think that the driver mod is the best one to do so... I am absolutely going NA for now. That's a $7,000.00+ difference in my build! With that, I can go to a racing school or two and master my skills. Well, maybe not master, but improve vastly. I consider myself a VERY good street driver. Been doing it since I was 12 and have never wrecked. Thank God! Not being cocky, but I feel I have been blessed with a talent and a narural instinct. But as far as autocross goes, I have ZERO experience. So thanks again for the input and advice! Probably saved me a ton of money and mountains of headache.
With how much hp? Theres a world of difference with a 305 vs a 500 hp 388. Its gonna be quite the jump. I been there lol i went from a bolt on 250 whp L98 to a 400 whp 383. Insane difference
With how much hp? Theres a world of difference with a 305 vs a 500 hp 388. Its gonna be quite the jump. I been there lol i went from a bolt on 250 whp L98 to a 400 whp 383. Insane difference
Before my 305 died, it was pretty stout with several mods. I have no idea how much hp, but I'm guessing close to 300.
Also, my father in law has a supercharged '07 Foose Mustang with 430 hp. He never drives it but let's me take it out every so often to keep it up to par. I take VERY good care of it, but I also give it hell.
I'm pretry confident I can handle the 500 hp. But, it's always been a dream of mine to go to a performance driving and racing school. I'm definitely going to do that before and after my build. The learning never stops.
left foot braking gave me more car control confidence.
smother weight transfer control.
size 13 race shoes (w/grinded down heals) make it tough to right foot brake. http://jalopnik.com/why-you-should-b...foot-434604934
I consider myself a VERY good street driver. Been doing it since I was 12 and have never wrecked. Thank God! Not being cocky, but I feel I have been blessed with a talent and a narural instinct.
Myself and many, many others have thought that way about ourselves before actually being put to the test.
I took my Fiesta ST to a track day a couple years ago and thought I was running it pretty quickly. I was chatting with an instructor later and asking him which mods I should do to the car first. He asked if he could take me out for a couple laps in it. His second lap, he was 5+ seconds faster than my best all day. It was humbling, to say the least, to have my ego put in check like that and find out how much faster my car was without me slowing it down.
Myself and many, many others have thought that way about ourselves before actually being put to the test.
I took my Fiesta ST to a track day a couple years ago and thought I was running it pretty quickly. I was chatting with an instructor later and asking him which mods I should do to the car first. He asked if he could take me out for a couple laps in it. His second lap, he was 5+ seconds faster than my best all day. It was humbling, to say the least, to have my ego put in check like that and find out how much faster my car was without me slowing it down.
Just something to keep in mind...
Noted.
Here,
Originally Posted by 85projectZ28
But as far as autocross goes, I have ZERO experience.
And here,
Originally Posted by 85projectZ28
But, it's always been a dream of mine to go to a performance driving and racing school. I'm definitely going to do that before and after my build. The learning never stops.
His second lap, he was 5+ seconds faster than my best all day.
...
Reminds me of something similar...
A guy had sent his car in for a full track alignment to a shop on my recommendation.
Next AX he did not see any lap time improvement.
So I got in his car with him in the passenger seat and ran a couple laps just a little slower than the record for his class of car.
So the set up the shop put on the car was awesome, the owner of the car just needed more seat time.
It was a late 90s Porsche 996 with throttle by wire...
and it was a *itch to left foot brake because if I simultaneously hit the gas and brake the car would default to no throttle at all.
Spend a few weekends at the local go cart track when the weekly record setters are on track.
You will learn and improve without tearing up your own car or savings account.
Go Carts require left foot braking too.
Now days most Pro drivers left foot brake as they started by racing go carts at a young age.
A few things we've learned since getting into the Pro-Touring world with a thirdgen in 2010:
First, if you want to go forced induction and autocross the car, don't do a centrifugal style blower. The power curve on them is completely wrong for autocross. They will do fine on road racing though where there is less frequent throttle manipulation for cornering. NA is better for autocross. A solid 383 with a 6000 - 7000 rpm redline can do wonders on course.
Second, invest first in chassis stiffness. Subframe connectors, cage, etc are your first priority if the car doesn't have at least SFCs. The cage will come into play for harness mounting later. But stock belts are plenty to get you started.
Third, good tires. The Nitto NT05 is a good starter tire. The Falken 615K is better. The BFG Rival S is even better. Start with the Nitto and upgrade as you become able to outdrive the tire.
Fourth, upgrade the brakes. You can start with better pads but you will eventually want to move to something better than stock.
Then start working on the suspension. Avoid poly bushings for rotojoints and heim joints. You do not want any chance of suspension bind in hard cornering.
Plan on rebuilding the automatic trans about every 18 months. This is why we finally switched ours to a T56 Magnum. You can do just fine with an automatic but this type of driving is rough on automatics.
And always work on your driving. Join your local SCCA if you aren't already a member. Most groups run monthly autocross events to work on your driving skills. Look for local roadcourse groups. I'm not sure about NM but in AZ we have ProAutoSports and SpeedVentures running events in AZ, SoCal, and NV. The driver improvement is where to focus your spend instead of parts (except tires). At these events, do not be shy about asking for help with your driving by asking others to drive your car or asking to ride in theirs.
If you want to see what we've done with our GTA over the years and the complete list of mods, we've documented the entire cycle on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/DragonladyGta/
This is a great time to get involved and drive a thirdgen. Lots of parts are in process with multiple manufacturers to improve the platform and provide a lot of options that just weren't available 2 years ago.
11-24-2016, 04:32 PM
...demystifies the techniques of race driving. -- Playboy
