84-Z28-Canada

Hi guys, need a little advice. I've got two 84 z28s, both in really good shape.

The current set up is (hard top Brown car, owned for years):
383ci small block, Edelbrock RPM heads and intake, Lunati .500 lift cam, 2500 rpm stall and early 700r4, with the big downside being the 3.23 open 10 bolt rear end with drum brakes. Interior 8/10, Exterior 9.9/10 - best time right now 14.55 in the 1/4

t-top black car (Just bought as a roller)
No motor or trans, but originally a 305 car with a t5. Biggest benefit is a 3.73 posi rear diff with disk brakes. Really clean car, almost zero rust. Interior 9/10, Exterior 9/10.

If it were you guys, would you swap the rear from the black car into the brown car (and vise versa) and go racing? or swap the 383 and 700 into the black car (meaning converting a manual car to auto) and go racing? Whichever car doesn't get the bigger motor gets a mild 305 I have under the bench and the open 3.23 highway rear end. Would love to hear your thoughts!

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Swap the engine and tranny into the very nice good looking black car. Should dip into the 13s with some traction and the posi should help with that.

AlkyIROC

If it's going to be a track only car, it doesn't really matter. Race cars don't have to look pretty inside or out to go fast. Pick the brown one and gut it.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

I'd personally keep the black one clean and simple. You've already got a start on the brown one...finish the job ;P

84-Z28-Canada

Love the feedback guys, thanks. I am leaning toward exactly what you guys are saying. Gut the brown car, make it light and fast, and put the 305 and stick in the black car just to cruise.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You'll never be satisfied with a 305 turd when the other is faster. I would keep the car you prefer and put the best parts in it and sell the other.

84-Z28-Canada

Yeah, the brown car came with a 305, and within two weeks I was swapping to a 350, then eventually beat the 383. But I think the black car will just get a 305 and a t5, keep it simple, and sell it to some kid as his first cool car. The thirdgens work awesome as an intro into "muscle" cars, so hopefully it can spark some young kids interest in the hobby. Keep it simple right? Sounds like a plan, gut the brown car, go fast ;-)

cosmick

Make the black one the race car, make the brown one a comfy cruiser

84-Z28-Canada

I think I've made the decision to swap the better rear end into the brown car and keep on racing that one. A friend of mine had a really good point, if anything should go wrong in a big way out on the race track, do you really want a glass roof above your head? T Top cars are also heavier due to the glass, so I think it's a no brainer. In about 6 months, let me know if anyone is interested in a 84 z38 305 stick car with t tops!

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

I see you've already come to this decision...

If you're quick, you can swap the rear ends in an hour. Bleeding the brakes for the disc and drum swap will take another hour or two. The brown car's hardtop is more suitable for a race car. I don't see a compelling enough reason to swap the drivetrain, pedals (manual-to-auto), shifter, wiring, etc. to the incomplete black car when all you are really trying to achieve is a gear/posi upgrade on the brown car.

Assemble the black car into a nice cruiser (slightly nicer interior, slightly worse exterior) and sell or cruise in that car. Anything you strip off the brown car can upgrade (if needed) the black car.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Problem with the brown car is that it is brown.

84-Z28-Canada

Haha, yeah I get that a lot... but I actually just had it painted brown and I love it! That's the stock color, just refreshed. I love it because very few people have it, so I kinda stick out at the track

skinny z

What years are the cars? It made a difference to me when I was building hot rods while I lived out your way.
Quoted from the Ontario Drive Clean FAQ section:"Passenger vehicles manufactured before 1988 do not require a test."
I had a devil of a time (back in 2000) getting my carbed 86 IROC to pass before they changed the rules to the most recent format.

AlkyIROC

Body style looks nice but the unibody and torque arm rear suspension really make it expensive to make into a nice "muscle car". If I had to start again from scratch to build a race car, I'd go straight to a tube chassis car. It would have been a lot cheaper in the long run than trying to make a production car into a race car. The third gen needs a lot of modifications to make it better compared to things like mustangs and any GM G-body type vehicle.

My race car has t-tops but there isn't any glass anywhere in the car. I replaced the windshield, side and back windows with Lexan and did a swap with a Formula T/A to change my glass t-tops for Lexan ones. It's a race car so the side and back windows don't open and even with a full roll cage, I can still take out the t-tops when I need to while working on it.

84-Z28-Canada

Skinny, the cars are both 84s, so they are both exempt from the emissions testing here in ontario. The brown car definitely would not pass!

About third gens not being a good candidate for a race car, I think you're right. If I had to start again, I'd go with a more conventional muscle car (late 60s early 70s) with leaf springs and a stronger rear end from the factory. Right now my goal is to run a quick "Modified" class car, maybe hit low 11s with it, and I may not be able to do that within budget with the camaro. Right now it's just a cool street/strip car. If I can hit 12.99 with my set up, the 3.73 posi, and a drag radial I'll consider that a win. Then I'll look at building an actual race car

skinny z

I think you're underestimating the potential for a third gen to be a "race car".
That said, it really depends on your definition.
Low 12's...easy. At 3650 lbs, I've gone sub 12.6x @ 108 (12.4x corrected to sea level) in a carbed 355. 100% streetable and 24 Imperial MPG highway. This is hardly a race car with 170 cc heads and a 224 @ .050" cam and small single exhaust. 3.73 gear, 26" old and worn ET Streets. If I could get the 60' back to where it was when the tires were fresh at 1.71 (best) then low 12's are totally within reason. (I've lost about 2/10 since then.)
Want to go 11's? Make the car lighter.
Check out these builds.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...et-bomber.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...84-camaro.html

The torque arm rear end isn't an impediment to performance so much as it somewhat more expensive to upgrade. That said, adding a 12 bolt to your 60's era muscle car to replace the factory 10 bolt is hardly less expensive than the same upgrade to your Camaro. Same for same. (Or so my latest look around has shown).
One thing I've noticed over the years is the 3rd gen representation at the track has steadily been increasing and those cars are acquitting themselves very well.

firebird2.8

How do u post threads I have done it before but can't remember how to do it

firebird2.8

What do u thank about a 278/288@50 is that a fairly big cam for a daily driver

skinny z

A few more details are needed:
Engine size, heads, induction type, exhaust....
It may too that you'll want to start your own thread. With that, you're bound to get plenty of responses.

86redIROC

14.55 seems way to slow for your current 383 setup. something doesn't add up?

84-Z28-Canada

Yeah, I know! Spent all kinds of time and money on the motor to only run 14.55.
What's missing is traction. If I leave the start line at any kind of RPM I just do a 100ft smoke show, which is fun, but not fast. So I can't even hit full throttle until half track or else I skate. The weak point is the 3.23 open rear end, and street tires. Not enough gearing, no posi and no slicks means 14.55 out of a potentially 12 second car.

1984blackngold

I know this is a long shot but do you by any chance still have the black/gold roller and would you be willing to sell it?

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

What I would do:
Swap the rear ends, new bushings etc. while at it..
Put the brown car on a diet. Race it like you stole it.
Sell the 305.
Buy a 4th gen LT1 (to save cash vs LS) and put the 5 speed in the black car.
You now have a great racer and a great cruiser.