Koopsy

I recently picked up a 91' GM Motorsports Players Challenge Series Camaro. My plans for this coming up year are to do some track days and autocross while driving the car on the street. No other modifications are going to made other than polyurethane bushings all around. I'm starting to get into getting the car ready and I would like your thoughts on a few things:

Tires
I'd like to keep the stock rims and tire size to keep it looking as it did in the original race series. In a 245/50R16 I'm considering the BFG Sport Comp 2, soft compound but longer lasting. My track experience is limited so super sticky tires isn't necessary at this point. Any other suggestions? What have you used on track?

Shocks
Does anyone have experience with Koni Yellows in a track/autocross situation on a third gen? After next season I am going to repaint the car and prepare it for road racing (cage, fire system, etc.) so they would be used for that as well.

Pads and Rotors
What are you running for pads and rotors? Has anyone run StopTech slotted rotors and/or Hawk HP+ brake pads? What other pads have you used that worked well for street, autocross or track day driving?

Dscott

Koni yellows are the gold standard. You will not go wrong with them!!

If its a Players Challenge car doesnt it already have a roll cage?

Koopsy

Sounds good! Tire Rack seems to have the best price for them right now.

When they were done racing the cars they took the cages out so they could sell them to the public. I want to put in an updated cage anyways

AlkyIROC

S&W makes the best roll bar/cage kits but a custom made cage by a chassis shop is probably your best bet. An autocross or road course cage is not the same as a drag racing cage. Start saving up your money. Cost of the cage is cheap. Cost to install it gets expensive. Expect to pay at least $100-$150 per point to get a cage installed and I'm sure a proper road course cage will cost more as they tend to have more tubes.

If in doubt, find a rulebook for the type of racing you plan on doing and see what the exact requirements are. It's possible you may only require a basic roll bar. For drag racing, a roll bar isn't even required until you hit 11.50 in the 1/4 mile.

Koopsy

Oh ya no problem there, we will be custom fabricating our own cage in our shop. Maybe starting with a kit and modifying it to what the specific rules say. Next year though. This year I just want to drive it around and do some track days and autocross. We will also be fabricating up our own replica of the race exhaust that was used on the Players Challenge cars. Mine was hacked up back to stock.

plum92_camaro

I ran those BFG sport comp 2's for a while. They are one of the best options for our stock 16x8's. I was very pleased with them. My friend put them on his '11 camaro and cut a couple seconds from his stock tires. I replaced mine before they were worn out with Toyo R888's and gave them to a friend for his 90 GT and he cut a couple seconds with them over his old, hard all season tires that were on it.

Also look at (if they fit your class rules, their treadwear is 100) Toyo R888's. I ran 255/50R15 all the way around for the last two years, they are awesome. They cut 2.2 more seconds off my time from the BFG's. Toyo's are also available in 245/45R16. The Toyos held up well in autoX and HPDE events. I ran -2.5* camber at autoX and I think -1.5* at HPDE.

Koni Yellows are the way to go with these cars. I have them on mine. I used 4thgen rears for the on-car adjustability.

For brakes I'm running LS1 brakes with slotted rotors and OE pads because that's what was on my donor car. I plan to get Hawks HP+ pads. For rotors, stock smooth ones are said to be best. I've heard Napa Premium Rotors praised a few times. Slotted rotors are an obsolete technology. They were to sweep away the gasses released by brake pads back in the day. Slotted are said to slightly increase the initial bite of braking. Drilled rotors are known to crack. IIRC, neither drilled or slotted rotors can be turned.

Koopsy

Okay thanks!
I'll check on the NAPA rotors. There are so many brands of solid rotors that it's hard to know which ones are quality and will hold up to some abuse and which ones are junk. It's nice to have some feedback on a brand that's been used.

How many events did you run on the R888s in the 2 years? Any street miles as well? I think the autox rules state 200tw minimum.

I didn't know that the third gen rear Koni shocks weren't adjustable on the car. Do the 4th gen ones just bolt in? Do you know why they're different?

plum92_camaro

I seen the rotors recommendations on FRRAX. Tons of third and 4thgen autoX/ RR specific tech there.

I did 6 or 7 autoX events, some double entries, and an HPDE. The first year they were my street tires. They are bald now but could probably get 1 more autoX out of them. I thought the SCCA rule was 200 is why I mentioned to check class rules. I've always raced with a club, the local SCCA isn't very good.

Thirdgens are monotubes. IIRC, you have to unbolt the axle end, compress them and twist to adjust. 4thgen are twin tube but adjust with a **** like the fronts, just have to pull your carpet aside to access them. Third and 4thgen rear suspensions are identical and completely interchangeable.

Koopsy

Okay sounds good. I've ordered some NAPA rotors and will be ordering the Konis soon.

Beater79TA

Koni's are a good shock for this. If you want to spend more money, Detroit Speed sells the JRI shocks and UMI will be releasing a double adjustable Afco shock soon that is tuned for autocross and road racing. The JRI ones will run about $5000 for the set. Not sure what final pricing will be on the UMI ones since they aren't fully out of R&D yet and in the catalog.

For tires, it depends on classing options for treadwear. Toyo is a good one. We also ran Nitto NT01s on the stock 16s for a couple seasons. For a street tire that will also work on the track, the BFG Comp 2 is a good choice. With the right offset, it doesn't take that much trimming to get a 315/30/18 under the car though and that opens up a few better options for sticky tires like the BFG Rival S and the Falken 615K.

We upgraded to Wilwood 4 piston brakes and haven't looked back. The ease of pad changes made it all worth it since it now takes longer to get the wheel off than it does to change the pads. But stock brakes with the right pads should work for a while. You'll be happier with an upgrade to something better.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

If it was my car, I wouldnt be altering it. Does it really need to be painted? These cars are practically impossible to find nowadays and their value continues to rise. Id hate to see you strip the paint and decals off of it and modify it outside of the original Players Challenge specs.

Koopsy

Preservation is definitely forefront in any decision made on the car. Unfortunately, this car was stripped of its decals and race items when it was sold to the public and driven on the road as a regular car for 150,000+ kms until it was discovered for what it is in 2001 at a garage sale. Many of the body components have been replaced from road use other than the hood, rear spoiler, and side ground effects which have the burn marks from the side race exhaust (really cool). Any modifications done are to replace unsafe/worn out components or components that have already been replaced and the unique race parts long gone, such as the shocks, they have already been replaced with Monroe regular shocks, may as well change to something better now. The decals are replacements but the person that originally made the decals for the series still has some and will make more so that's even more accurate than having someone else make them. Anything that is going to be done to the car will be able to be reversed if complete originality is desired by a future owner. The car was built to be raced, I cannot think of a better way to celebrate the series and the car than to actually race it and not let it sit in a garage. If this car was low mile and not modified and street driven for so long it would be a different story, much of its race 'patina' has been lost to road grime and abuse.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I didnt know the decals on it were replacements. I had read through another thread of yours that has pics of the car and assumed it was original per 1991/1992.

Koopsy

I wish it was!

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

The members here would LOVE to see more pics of the car. Mainly the parts of the car that have history to it. There is a thread here too that has a bunch of other Players Challenges cars in it.,

paul_huryk

I'm going to suggest that you move up to a 17" or 18" wheel and tire combo (with at least a 275 on all 4 corners) to make the car perform its best - plus you can just swap the OEM wheels back on.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I second what Paul said. The wheels that are currently on the car don't even belong on it, technically.

Koopsy

For sure, I have started a build thread here for everyone to see. I actually got a lot of info about the cars from that thread before I bought mine and I've posted some pictures of it there when I first bought it.

Koopsy

I've had a lot of suggestions to move to 17" wheels, more tire choices and better contact patch. Might be the way to go! Those are just the wheels that were on it when I bought it

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

The wheels on it now are 88-90 Iroc wheels 18x8. If they are in good shape then I would hold onto them.

I run a 17x8 up front and 17x9.5 in the rear. No spacers at all in the rear are needed. I think you can get a 9" or 9.5" wide wheel in the front without the need for spacers but it will all come down to choosing the correct offset of the wheel.

Beater79TA

You can do a 18 x 10.5 on all 4 corners with very little work on the front and a lot of cutting on the rear. Backspacing is 6 inches on the front and 6.5 on the rear. 17 x 9 or 9.5 is easy and allows for 275/4-/17 tires with Falken 615Ks being your best autocross option in that size (unless your classing allows slicks) or a 255/40/17 Rival S which will outperform the Falken even though it is narrower.