Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

when is your boost gauge going to read zero? Engine is in vacuum or its in boost on a boost motor. Only briefly on a WOT stop does it ever hit 0 before boost is built up.

on a N/A motor, you'd see 0 at WOT if you have no restrictions in the intake system. My car does read 0 when I stomp throttle wide open on a free rev or while on the footbrake at the track, i can stall up to 0 psi.

Else its idling at 15 in hg vacuum

99xtreme

You are correct, the should only constantly read 0 when then the engine is off. If you are running anywhere near your fuel limit, then get a better gauge. If you are running conservative then its probably ok.

vortec350s10

Quick little update, I'll try to get some new pics up soon. On the gauge not reading zero issue, I managed to pull the trim ring off and then the needle and put it back so when it's off it's at zero. Really easy and simple actually. Did the same with my old vacuum gauge.
Well my tranny build was a complete success! No issues at all, everything works excellent. Dana's kit was awesome. It definitely helped first by "practicing" building my 4l60E for my Tahoe, so this second build went a lot smoother and I was a lot more thorough on inspecting things. I've got a good thousand miles or more on the trans and love it. Better feeling than my old TCI streetfighter.
So my fuel system is 90% complete, just gotta finish the line from the regulator to carb. I ended up going with an Aeromotive stealth 340 in-tank pump and -8 braided teflon lines for feed and return. Works well so far. I reused the stock fuel pump relay which is now mounted under the dash. It's triggered by the key and I also added a mini toggle under the column to disable it if needed.
I'm planning on pulling the motor in a couple weeks, I'll mention more on my plans for that later. In the meantime, I'm going to work on trying to mount my fuel pressure gauge in my hood. Pics soon.

vortec350s10

Alright so here's a couple pics of my fuel setup. I originally had ditched the stock in-tank pump and converted the pickup over to the carbureted setup, so now I switched it back. Luckily I kept the wiring intact and it didn't take too much messing around. Yes that is a giant nail and I ran a 5/8 heater hose for the return. Hopefully it doesn't rot away too quickly submerged in gasoline!

vortec350s10

Today I worked on mounting the fuel pressure gauge in the hood. I decided on using aluminum sheet metal instead of fiberglassing some sort of pod to mount it to the hood. I just need to clean it up a little and paint it. Didn't turn out too bad, I think.

vortec350s10

So my turbo..... I was planning on buying a Master Power or similar but I ended up talking to an old friend who said he had a Holset turbo laying around from a couple years back that he is no longer going to use. He bought it off ebay and couldn't remember the specs, but he said back when he bought it he did his research and thought it was sized well for a 350. So I got it, planning on just using it for motivation (a turbo sitting there staring at me makes me excited). So here's what I found out about it:
It's originally used on a Cummins L10 diesel engine
I believe it is know as a Holset H2E, similar or renamed as a HX50
Compressor - 4" inlet, 3" outlet, 66mm compressor wheel
Turbine - T4 divided flange, 4" V band outlet, 19 cm2 exhaust housing
The center housing is brand new, it has a fresh re manufactured tag on it as well
Here's the only map I was able to find:




So what do you guys think? The physical dimensions seem larger than say a MP T70, but the map puts it right in that ballpark.

vortec350s10

Anyone have any input on this turbo? I know there's not a lot of info out there on these Holsets, but I have read they are good quality. The physical size of it seems a little larger than what a typical turbo would have with a similar map.

I'm borrowing a cherry picker tomorrow, if I can get myself away from working on sleds, I might get the motor and trans pulled this weekend.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I would remove that rubber heater hose from the tank. It will deteriorate quickly, clog the filter, and possibly cause the engine to go lean and come apart.

That turbo is a good quality unit. Looks like an H2 series. With the 66mm wheel it should be good for around 650HP depending on your setup. I would run it on a 350. It should spool fast with the comp wheel and 19cm housing.

vortec350s10

Yeah, that probably wasn't the best idea to stick that piece of heater hose on there. If only pulling the tank wasn't such a pain. Maybe I will, I'll see.
Got the motor and trans pulled, now to pull the engine apart. I'm thinking of getting one of these bracket setups to move my alternator to the drivers side to give me more room for the turbo.
http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/pop...ge.php?pid=241
I swapped my crappy stock rubber mounts that made my engine sit unlevel for some moroso solid mounts I got from summit. With the solid mounts I should be able to get away with tighter clearances with my exhaust without the engine shifting all over. I also picked up some MLS head gaskets and arp head studs. I'm thinking I might pull the pressed-in rocker arm studs and tapping and installing screw in studs since I will have the heads off. I'll get some picks posted soon if anyone cares.......

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Agreed, looks good. No idea what the 19 cm2 turbine housing will do, as most turbine sides are given as ratio of dimensions....A/R's. Likely will work good tho, seems to flow near 65 lbs/min which is good for around 650 hp give or take some.

I dont know how far down the speed range that wheel is good for on that map but generally a mild 350 build will require pressure ratios of 1.5-1.7 to get to 550-600 hp. So figure 50-60 lbs/min air flow at PR of 1.6, your on the low end of the map, wheel wont be spinning that fast but thats ok. Should land in the middle areas of the MAP which is best efficiency.

vortec350s10

Yeah the weird way of measuring turbine housing size sure makes it confusing. So the one thing about a turbo map that I don't understand is what determines the bottom of the map? For example at 1.5 PR at 40lbs/min, it is right on the bottom edge. How come it is cut off like that on bottom?

So I've got my heads pulled off today, and my next area of concern with my 28k 350 HO crate engine is the ring end gaps. I'm assuming I'm gonna want to open up the end gaps, since everything is fairly fresh and most likely very tight on this engine. I remember the last engine I built (350) the spec called for .018" for cast pistons. I haven't pulled a piston out to check it yet but I'm guessing it's gonna be tighter than I'm gonna want it. Do you guys agree?

vortec350s10

Alright it's been a while so time for an update. I tore my engine apart, and opened opened up the ring end gaps on the top rings from .018 to in the .022-.025 range by filing them. I reinstalled my old original cam which is 212/222, so the XE268 came out. I don't want to be spinning this engine real high since I'm keeping the stock rotating assembly and I believe it'll be a lot happier not having to spin past 5500. ARP head studs are in. I went with MLS head gaskets too. I welded in a -10 AN bung in the pan, and installed solid motor mounts. The solid mounts free up some space as well which I'm sure will be well appreciated once I get to the "fun" part. Since I'm keeping my drivers side header, I threw it on and used part of my old exhaust head pipe to get the crossover pipe started. I placed an order for mandrel bent steel tubing to make my header/ crossover and downpipe which should be here in a few days. I bought material for a 4" downpipe, we'll see how tough it will be to fit! My heater box will need to be modded again. 4" might be a little overkill but if I can fit it I figure it can't hurt. Let me know what you guys think, I appreciate any tips or suggestions.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Looks great so far!

Bottom of the map is the lowest recommended speed line. Any slower and the wheels will not work as accurately predicted in the speed ranges given. The gas velocities exiting the tips may be too low for the impeller design.

Now if its at the far right corner, against the choke line, then you reached the max allowable weightflow that the impeller/compressor can pass under those air conditions and spin speed

vortec350s10

Oh ok, thanks for the explanation. I've made a little more progress since I received my exhaust tubing. The stuff looks really good, I am very happy with it so far. I figured out I can fit a 2.5" pipe between the motor mount and K-member, so I am going to run the drivers side crossover pipe all the way to under the fuel pump boss without having to join in the passenger side exhaust. The two sides won't have to merge till they meet the turbo flange. So that works out cool! I had to abandon my bung in the oil pan and will hopefully still be able to get it into the fuel pump block off plate instead, which was my original plan. Plus I still have to fit tranny cooler lines through there somehow, but I think they should fit. I only have room for a band clamp under the oil pan, which I'm not sure if it will hold up or not. I wanted to fit a flex joint somewhere in there as well to have some give for thermal expansion to ease the stresses on the piping, but I have no straight section to put it. It's going to get hairy where the two pipes will be coming out facing forward, below and above the motor mount, and will curve and join into the turbo. The lower radiator hose entering the water pump is right there and I still have to sneak the oil drain past them somehow too. The exhaust pieces in the first pic" the big stuff is 16ga 4", the 2 90 degree bends are 2.5: 14ga, and the small stuff is 1 5/8 11ga. Nice and thick!

vortec350s10

After playing with options, I ended up moving the turbo forward and raised it up an inch or two right up behind the headlight. This gives me a lot more room to transition the two forward facing 2 1/2" pipes into the turbo flange. I started making a bracket that bolts to the head to support the weight of the turbo. That thing is a tank! I might even be able to put my alternator back in its normal position. That'd be awesome.

vortec350s10

Look at the V band flange on the turbine outlet on my turbo and tell me if you've ever seen one like it. I've been doing some research and it seems Holset uses a weird style for attaching the downpipe. I don't know what to do about it yet. Can't find much info about it.

vortec350s10

Made some good progress today. Pulled the motor back out, planned out my routing for primaries for my passenger side header and went to work. I can't believe how fast it went together, I figured this would have taken me a week instead of just one day. All my plug wires will fit perfect, and I can access all but the number 4 cylinder's plug with a regular socket and extension. I bought a collector piece from the same place I got my tubing - Columbia River Mandrel Bends- and that thing saved me a lot of work trying to blend four pipes into a single 2.5". Next is routing up to the turbo and figuring out a plan for the oil drain.....

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

the angle on your turbo looks like it could be too much and cause you oil draining problems, I think it's supposed to be less than 15 degrees MAX from vertical. maybe it's just the pictures?

As for the turbo exit, I know the holset hx series is used on dodge ram cummins trucks 1998 to 2002 for sure (maybe until 2006 im not sure), you may be able to get a down pipe off an old truck or a v-band from an aftermarket supplier for those trucks.

Build looks good, keep up the good work

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

you're making some great progress, passenger side header looks good, you make me wanna go and redo mine, my setup is similar but when the crossover comes up the passenger side it turns into a log style. i like your style better. how do you plan on routing the oil drain? it seems like the exhaust will be in the way.

vortec350s10

Thanks for the compliments. I can't believe how well it's going. I think if I get a 45 degree -10AN fitting I can clock the turbo center housing vertical and be able to clear my "frame" on the car while maintaining a decent drain angle. As for getting the oil back to the engine, it's looking like I will need to weld my bung basically on the front corner of the pan. The hose can run right along the lower radiator hose and clear my exhaust and belt. We'll see....
As for the downpipe attachment, I'm gonna pick up a 4" V-band locally and see what it is like, as I will most likely end up returning it anyways.



- Yours is the setup I was copying, until I discovered I could squeeze the drivers side crossover under the motor mount. Thanks for posting all our pictures, it helped me a lot.

Made a little more progress today as well:
It went a lot slower today, getting the pipes up to the turbo flange was tricky, especially because I am trying to include a flex joint in each. I have to figure out my transition where the two 2.5" pipes come into the flange. I squished a piece of 3" pipe, tacked the corners, and flattened out the sides to make a rectangl-ish flange but I'm thinking I'm gonna want something thicker there as it will be seeing a lot of heat and stresses I'm sure. Next is buying another flex joint and finishing up those feed pipes.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

great job so far on the header! i used similar collectors on my headers i just finished up. I buy pipe and materials from Columbia river as well. Great place.

vortec350s10

Got the Y pipe finished last night. Turned out better than I expected. I used a chunk of 3x2 rectangle tubing to merge the pipes into the flange. Worked mint.

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

Looking great quick question how did you go about notching the pipe for the merge? I had a hard time notching mine

vortec350s10

Basically all I did was start cutting away at it little by little till I had it merged over far enough. Took a couple hours but wasn't too bad I guess.

vortec350s10

Well I've still been making some good progress, just working on details mainly. I've got the wastegate stubbed out of the Y-pipe, and the engine and trans are hopefully in for good. I had to redo some wiring, mainly because I changed around my temp gauges. I had two coolant temp gauges before, (Autometer and stock) and had one electric oil temp gauge reading both engine oil and trans temp with the flip of a switch. I now converted my stock coolant temp gauge to read trans temp, and my oil temp gauge to now read engine oil temp and intake air temp. I relocated the trans temp sensor into the pan instead of a pressure port, since the stock water temp sensor was too big.
My header and crossover pipe is getting TIG welded so once I get that back I can make my downpipe, which will allow me to then merge the wastegate into it.

Tranny cooler lines- I ended up putting my stock ones back in, I think they will clear my exhaust with some tweaking. Will need to heat insulate them for sure. Made a heat shield for my starter, installed a new oil drain bung in the pan - should work this time!
Next I am buying parts to install an engine oil cooler. My oil temp gets hot enough as it is at the track (240), and with a stock 5 quart pan and now a turbo I'm sure it will only run hotter. I figured now is a good time to add a drive shaft loop too. It's just hanging there in the picture.

vortec350s10

Thanks! How come you remade your headers? Going to something even crazier? Yeah, I agree Columbia River has been a good place to get piping. I'm glad I stumbled onto them.

Side note: has anyone used the cheapo ebay wastegate that I have? It came with my turbo, so I figured I'd try it out. Hopefully it works alright.

wyochimneysweep

iTrader: (1)

did you find a flange for the turbo? if not go to a heavy truck dealer and get the clamp and flange for a cummins L10 engine. not to hard to find. I see alot of L10 engines around here and have been thinking of doing a turbo on my setup and i think i got one or two of these around the shop. Just seen yor in MN. Where at?

wyochimneysweep

iTrader: (1)

I'm in fargo ND

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Same turbos for now, just different layout with new heads/cam. Keeping it all under hood now instead of sticking out

vortec350s10

I actually took a chance and bought a 4" V-band with flanges on ebay that are the OBX brand. They looked wider in the pic than a typical 4" V-band which is what I was hoping, but they never got back to me after I asked them dimensions. I got tired of waiting so I just bought it, and the size ended up just about right. The OD of the flange ring was slightly larger than the outer flange on the turbo housing, so I put the flange ring in the lathe and turned it down slightly.
As for the turbo housing, I milled the whole thing down thinner at work until it matched the width of the new flange. The only thing is that where the new flange and the turbo mate, they are both just flat surfaces, instead of the little lip and groove mating up like on normal v band flanges. I hope it will seal with them just mating up flat.

I live near Monticello. Not as close to BIR as I would like, but oh well.......

vortec350s10

Well since I'm waiting for my header to get welded, I can't make my downpipe yet so I've been working on other small things. I wanted to figure out a way to make my mechanical timing advance range adjustable. I tapped a 4-40 hole in the plate the cap mounts so I could install a screw to serve as the stop. I tapered the screw head in a lathe so by turning it up and down it changes the distance from the piece the weights are on. I think it should work well. Some Summit goodies arrived today too. Earl's oil cooler sandwich adapter w/T-stat, 4" elbow for air filter to turbo, and a filter. Got the turbo compressor sandblasted, no more yellow paint! I got a new camera too, so no more cell phone pics.

vortec350s10

Little update. My header is welded so I could put the exhaust all back together to finish the mockup for the downpipe and wastegate plumbing. The downpipe is made as far back as the starter, I need to get a couple more 90 degree bends and still waiting for my mufller before I can finish it. Oil cooler lines are done, new distributor cap, and I prelubed the engine and it looks like I have no oil leaks. I also cut down my timing pointer and installed a nice timing tape. I mounted the wastegate flange and made the merge pipe today. Went pretty easy actually.

freaky

NICE !!!!

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

Any info on the engine oil cooler setup? I've been researching this topic for a few weeks now and still debatin on if I should do it which sandwich adapter did u use? Cooler placement? Line size?

Downlipe looks good and so do the headers good job

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If and when I do mine again, I'll use the canton racing sandwich adapter and no thermostat. Running -10an line to the front of the car where cooler will be mounted, somewhere in the nose section.

vortec350s10

Thanks, I'm pretty happy with how all the exhaust turned out. I went with an Earl's billet sandwich adapter with built-in T-stat. $95 from Summit. I got the -10AN lines, fittings, and oil cooler from ANfittingsdirect.com. Great place and their braided lines are PTFE (teflon) instead of rubber inners, which if you've researched at all you probably already know that the teflon lines will last as long as your car and not break down like the rubbers will. My entire fuel system also used teflon lines. The teflon lines do need different style fittings than the rubber ones, but if you get it all from ANfittings direct it will all be compatible.
Here's the link to the oil cooler I bought.
http://www.anfittingsdirect.com/prod...64a04835d6e4a1

Seems like a real good quality unit, looks well made.
I am mounting it up under the nose on the drivers side. Just have to make some mounts for it and then I am going to make an air deflector for it that will scoop air just like the radiator has.

vortec350s10

What's the reason for no thermostat? I saw you had your cooler mounted behind the axle, did you have a T-stat then?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

No t-stat because I dont think its necessary. The oil is gonna get HOT quick no matter what. My car heats up to 190 deg operating temp at idle in only a few minutes on a warm day The cooling water will be heating the oil as well as the turbos, and really the 400 deg+ turbos will be doing most of that work. Same reason I dont run a t-stat in the radiator system. I have no reason to speed up the warm up process by delaying flow to the coolers. I ran with T-stat and without and neither one changed the way the motor operated temp wise.

I figured I'd mount it in the rear since it was an open space that does see alot of airflow. Figured I'd make a scoop to deflect air into it and that long run of line will also help cool. It turned out I ran way too skinny of a line size and that restriction killed my oil flow so after everyone saying run -10, I was not gonna run -10 to the rear. $$$$$$. So I will mount somewhere in the front

I didnt want to mount another hot item up in the nose to further heat the rad and intercooler. Already have a tranny cooler there but that location is the only logical choice. So I will re-route it eventually. I dont even know my oil temps currently so I would like to test that first to see if its even needed.

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

Thats why i am researching this topic so much, i want to see where my temps are now before actually doing it. I have reloacted my trans cooler away from the rad. and put a 9" fan on it on a fan switch. If my car is still running in the low 200s i will either add an engine oil cooler OR replace my FMIC with a water to air intercooler and mount that somewhere else so i dont have anything in front of my rad. maybe even upgrade fans to dual 12" derale ones, i found some that move about 2150cfm each. so with ~4300cfm of airflow through a 3" aluminum rad. i should be fine i hope
i hate turbos and their heating issues

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I also did not want to use another fan on the cooler since my rad fans are on switches/relays/etc and they still draw down my battery alittle on first turn-on. I may try to wire in another stock fan on the intercooler to help blow air back to the rad/trans cooler/oil cooler whenever its mounted there.

vortec350s10

I do have experience monitoring engine oil temp. I was surprised how much they varied. Coolant temp will always come up way faster than oil on my car. It will reach 180 coolant temp in as little as 5 mins running but the oil will only begin to read on the gauge at that time. It can take as long as 15-20 mins to reach a temp equal to the coolant. And tranny temp lags even further behind that. Cruising down the highway for an extended period, my coolant will run 175-180 and engine oil will hover around 190-200 depending on ambient temps. If I so much as give it a couple full throttle bursts for a few seconds each on the highway I can bring the oil up another 15 degrees in no time. A thermostat might not be as important living in TX but I would not think about going without it on my car. You don't want your oil running too cold or taking too long to warm up. Same goes for trans fluid temps. Mine runs in the 160-190 range which I think is perfect. Just my experiences for what it's worth.
Also I think proper shrouding and air ducting through the radiator is not given as much attention as it should. I'm not sure how you guys have everything setup exactly (air flow wise) but I am going to make sure I maximize proper shrouding around my radiator as I feel that is very important. I know some guys just remove all the plastic that is in front of the radiator to mount an IC but this allows air to go around instead of through the radiator. I guess I'll find out for myself this spring if I have cooling issues or not.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lack of shrouding is one of the reasons my car ran hot. I plan on boxing in the rad section around the intercooler to help guide air. These cars are suppose to be bottom breathers however, but alittle air thru the front nose helps.

With turbos on your car and oil passing through them, things will heat up for sure although I do not have actual temps handy. My car is in PA so the weather is MUCH cooler and it still runs very hot so that was the reasoning behind keeping the motor and oil as cool as possible at the moment. On the hottest days it just wouldnt be possible to enjoy the car but on the coldest days, it still heats up fine and runs great as long as I keep the fans off.

TheBigJ

iTrader: (1)

Hey how well does your bigger air dam work? i've got a stock one with my intercooler just sitting a good inch or two infront of the air dam, i'm looking forways to keep it cooler on a hot day on the highway. I like what you did with the pass. side header, very clean.

trbo355

I have a 88 Trans Am twin turbo and have fought water temp issues since i built it. Its been converted to a front feeder with screened holes in the bumper cover and had a rather large intercooler up there. Some of the biggest things that helped water temp was a Lincoln Mark VIII fan and of all things, throwing away my entire turbo system and going with my buddies WrenchRat stainless pipe setup. The next big improvement was tweaking the timing tables in the Commander 950 at idle and freeway speed. 25 degrees initial and around 45 degrees at 2500 cruise made a VERY large improvement.

Also, the heat my old mild steel turbo pipes radiated is nuts compared to stainless and while i havent driven the new system yet, i can already tell the car is FIXED. Before this latest batch of mods, i made a rather eleborate box from the rad to bumper cover to direct air into the radiator. Far as i can tell, it did nothing even at freeway speed. I decided to go non intercooler and run water/meth to eliminate air restriction and lose 38 lbs from the nose of the car after seeing what kind of power us local boys are making sans intercooler. I also run an aluminum 2 row, 1 inch tube radiator that definitely helped over the stocker. Water temp issues are a bitch and ive studied the hell out of my car over the years trying to figure things out.

Id have to say the #1 killer has been mild steel pipes and way too much of it with both turbos mounted above the battery trays. Anything to simplify the pipe layout and keep it out of the upper engine compartment area will help a lot!

vortec350s10

Thanks, my large air dam has worked awesome. My car was missing the factory air dam so I can't say how much difference it made from stock. The stock one if I recall is almost vertical, where as mine has more of an angle to it. The only thing about having the angle is more bugs and road debris (little rocks) get deflected up into the radiator where as I'm guessing the stock one since it isn't angled much partly for that reason. I actually trimmed mine up some to try to keep the radiator cleaner. I ran a 160 T-stat on my car for a while and as long as the outside temp was under 70 degrees it could maintain 160 on the highway no problem. I've since switched to a 180 T-stat for the last couple years and it maintains that no matter what, as long as I'm moving. How everything is going to work out once I mount an intercooler up there, well, that's another story. Just like trbo355, I also run a crapload of ignition advance under cruise and idle conditions, which has gotta help too.

vortec350s10

Got the car up and running! I will get pics and a video up soon. Fired up without a hitch. I can't tell it now has solid motor mounts, but I my idle is for sure smoother with the smaller cam. It's pretty cool watching the turbo spin for the first time. My intercooler and piping should show up tomorrow so I can get started on that this weekend. I think I might take it up to the gas station tonight with no front end or hood. Hehe. My muffler finally arrived, the first one never showed up from summit, so they sent me a second one. Running with an open downpipe in the garage, it is definitely quieter than open exhaust without a turbo. I can't wait to hear how quiet it will be going through a muffler.

vortec350s10

Here's a few pics I took today. Drove it around a bit, ending up running out of gas a mile from my house! First time I've ever done that before. I'm sure that was good on my new fuel pump.

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

Looks great. how soft is that 90* bend on the intake side? ive noticed on mine the turbo sucks it in when its building boost so just a heads up, now i see why guys get just couplers and use 90* turns in aluminum or etc. ha also did you remember to put thread sealant on the head studs? some of the holes/studs go in the water jackets and will leak if not properly sealed.

vortec350s10

Thanks, the 90 degree bend seems pretty stiff, but I haven't had a lot of experience with silicone couplers to know what is soft/stiff. I guess we'll see how it goes. Having a more restrictive air filter would increase the tendency to suck it in, but if I remember right yours is pretty big. I did rtv the head studs. Thanks for the check.

vortec350s10

I finally remember to ask a couple questions I've been wondering about for a while.

1. Does anything that is currently connected to vacuum need check valves or anything to isolate them from boost? ie brake booster, vac advance canister, pcv valve,etc

2. Where are you guys getting your boost signal from for the wastegate? Carb hat area? Piping? Compressor outlet?