vortec350s10

Made a little video tonight.

http://youtu.be/6sT_CLvVHoQ

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

Looks very good super clean, did you move your battery to the rear? seems like most do.

ZZ3Astro

Dang I need to get a carb.. wish mine could idle that smooth! LOL Sounds and looks awesome!

vortec350s10

zThanks for the compliment. And no, I mounted the battery inside of the turbo. Haha just kidding, yeah in the back.


Thanks, your posts and extensive documentation of your car has been really helpful for making choices for my install. We'll see how much I like having a carb when it comes to tuning. I do like them, and have pretty much got them figured out N.A., but who knows how it will react to boost. I've always wanted to do a megasquirt, so don't tempt me! I can't believe how smooth it idles, sounds totally stock to me. It's crazy what 10 less degrees of duration and two degrees wider LSA will do for your idle. Not that I don't like (and miss already) a good lope.

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

I'm getting my boost gauge map and bov from under the carb my2 Hobbs boost switches and fuel regulator from hat and my waste gate from compressor

As far as check valves I don't have any don't really need them on mine the only time I will use one is if I ever go back to an auto valve body for the 350 I'm not sure about ur vacuum advance though u probably will idk I have a locked out magnetic pickup distributor

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

I def missed it what cam did u go with? And carb? Sorry I missed that

vortec350s10

Thanks for the info on connections. I finished most of them up tonight. Check valve only on my line to heater controls and vacuum canister. BOV line comes from manifold vacuum T'd off carb line, wastegate from compressor outlet fitting I added, and I'm gonna install a fitting in the carb hat tomorrow for the fuel pressure regulator.

I reinstalled the original cam that came in the engine 212/220 @ .050, 112.5 LSA. I decided to swap that back in instead of keeping the Comp XE268 (224/230 110 LSA) that was in there. One reason being since I am running a cast rotating assembly I don't want to spin the motor higher than I need to, and sticking with less duration should be more predictable to how it does with boost. I'm running a Mighty Demon 650 carb.

vortec350s10

Well it's on the road! Put the front end back on yesterday afternoon and drove it probably 50 miles already. I don't have my O2 sensor in the exhaust yet so I'm not really hammering on it or anything yet. Supposedly the wastegate spring I have in there is a 6 pounder but the most boost I'm seeing on the gauge is maybe 3-4 psi. So far so good! Everything is working but my HKS knock-off blow off valve has never opened. So I'm getting turbo flutter if I let off too quick. I wasn't aware that most BOV's are adjustable. I'm pretty sure mine isn't. Is that normal that it doesn't open with only a couple pounds of boost? My engine oil cooler is working awesome, I can already tell it runs cooler and the 180 T-stat in the oil cooler block is definitely doing its thing. The intercooler install went good, thanks to ZZ3Astro for breaking trail on the 25x12x3 ebay intercooler fitment. I was able to tilt the bottom down and it sits on the core support nicely on a pair of cut down poly sway bar end link bushings. And minimal trimming was required to fit the front end back on. I made some aluminum sheet metal "air ducts" to help force air through everything. I'm happy with how it turned out. I still need to finish the exhaust, it is dumping sideways right behind the front right tire at the moment. I sure love that turbo whistle! As far as the spooling goes, hopefully the turbo is sized about right, it will start spooling at anything over half throttle but not show any positive boost unless I open the secondaries. It will bring the vacuum up close to zero pretty easily under a little over half throttle, but takes a lot more to get it to go positive. This is the first turbocharged car I've ever driven so I'm not quite sure what is "normal" but it seems about right to me. My timing right now is maxing out at 25 degrees, so I'm thinking I'm conservative enough for now as far as that goes. I know I gotta take it easy on the cast pistons! Obviously my jetting/PVCR will have to be richened up, it is dialed in for NA and ran around 12.5-13 A/F at WOT. I think I might leave the hood off for a while, I love staring at the polished carb hat through the windshield! And it definitely turns heads driving around town. Haha I'm just like a kid on Christmas morning. The excitement is not even close to wearing off yet. It's great to have my 2+ years of work come together. If anyone wants so see more pictures here's the link. I'm pretty sure it is public.
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o...cpZZ1QQtppZZ24

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

I like your intercooler pipes idk why but I just do haha where did u get them?

vortec350s10

Haha I like them too!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200679689943...84.m1497.l2649

project89

iTrader: (1)

the knockoff hks bov's and the knockoff greddy bov's suck .
get one of these instead these are proven to work just fine
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-TYPE-H-R...item35bab5ed65

vortec350s10

Well I got my O2 sensor installed today, and went for a drive to see what the current A/F ratios look like. It was 40 degrees today so I expected it to be really lean. Plus the sensor is only about a foot from the end of where my exhaust ends for now so it might be getting contaminated from outside air. Under WOT it was way lean, running in the high 13's. About a point higher than last year in warmer weather being N.A. So I've gotta make some definite carb changes just to get in the ball park, and that is at 3lbs of boost. I've got a problem, or at least I think I do with my cooling system. I've had to top it off twice, which I thought was a little weird, and when I got back from the drive I squeezed the upper hose, and no pressure. Hmmm..... Oil level is staying consistent and it is maintaining a steady coolant temp so I hope it's not leaking internally somehow. When I squeeze the hose I can hear the radiator cap kind of jiggling back and forth, which seems weird but I guess I never listened for that in the past. I doubt the cap could all of a sudden be bad or something. I have to look into it further.

calebzman

iTrader: (3)

That's the style I use and it has always worked great.

It's good you finally have the O2 sensor on. I'd aim for low 12's for the a/f ratio at that boost level. Your timing seems about right.

I really like the sheet metal air ducts you made. It should definitely help push more airflow through the coolers.

vortec350s10

Alright, I'll probably have to get one of those BOV's. Well I've put some more miles on it, I think my radiator cap is not holding pressure, so no big worry about that any more. I changed out my 84 secondary jets to ones that I had previously drilled to .125" which is equivalent of a 99 jet. At the same 3psi it dropped my WOT A/F down to about 11.8. Since I don't have a manual boost controller yet (just ordered one off ebay last night), I swapped in my stiffer wastegate spring which I believe is supposed to be a 12 lb. It spooled up way faster and hits about 7-8 psi. I can't even tell exactly because the car pulls so hard it is tough to read and try to stay on the road at the same time! I can't believe the power difference. I almost crapped my pants. The A/F ratio at that boost was running around 12.2-12.5, leaner than I'm comfortable with, so after a couple pulls, with each creating a holy crap followed by a big shitty grin I swapped back to my weaker spring. It broke the tires loose when it came up on boost in 2nd gear when I punched it at 35mph. I'm pretty sure with my 6psi spring, the WG is starting to open before I am even seeing any boost at the manifold. That must be why it hovers around 0" of vacuum so often, and then only goes positive once the WG reaches equilibrium. With the 12lb spring it easily shoots to positive boost at as low as half throttle. So when I get my manual boost controller, I should be able to quickly reach the preset psi instead of the slow gradual boost I'm seeing now.
The part throttle is very lean which I am attributing to the higher amount of airflow through the carb at partial spool occuring at smaller throttle openings than it's used to seeing. I'm going to add some vent tube extensions and face them into the incoming air and see what that does. I'm hoping it will richen things up quite a bit. I can't say enough about how happy I am with my tranny. Even at 8psi it felt solid as ever.

vortec350s10

Looking at that blow off valve, it looks like there are two black o-rings on the end the vacuum line attached to. What's that for? And does it come with those two aluminum tubes? Do you weld one of those to your pipe then? I'm confused......

The vent extensions worked awesome, I first installed 6 ft steel lines, but realized I couldn't fit out of the garage with them on. So I used rubber fuel line to test, although I might leave them 'cause I don't know how much it will suck having rigid pipes and if I could even get the hat on. With my spring that makes 3psi they dropped the A/F down to 9.9-10.4! So I swapped WG springs to the one that makes 7 psi and it ran 11.1-11.5. Nice and rich, I think I can lean out the secondary jets some but I also want to richen the PVCR's a little more because it is very lean still at under half throttle once it starts spooling. The vent extensions did help some by richening the part throttle slightly. I put up a couple more pics of my exhaust. I flattened out the 4" slightly where it goes between the starter and frame, this gave me plenty of room and it won't touch on either side. I still have to figure out how I'm gonna hang my muffler, I have it ran out the side straight off the turbo for now.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the rubber rings ontop of the bov are just there for looks and to make the top easier to grab and turn. the top of the bov is the adjuster u tighten or loseend the top to adjust the bov.

it comes with one steel and one aluminum weld fitting u weld that to ur charge pipe and the boc goes on that then has 3 set screws to lock it on the adapter


one word of advive put locktight on the set screws and lock nuts and also put it on the horn for the bov when u screw the horn to the bov body

if u want i have pictures of one of those bov's in my photobucket that i tore down completly and did a writeup on that i can post for u

basically it has 5 parts
the bov body
spring
brass valve
the horn
and the top which screws onto the bov body which adjust the spring presure

vortec350s10

Cool, thanks for the info. I'd like to see that write up if you want to send me a link or whatever.

project89

iTrader: (1)

when u get it i advise putting some white lithum grease or antiseieze on the valve were it slides in the bov body

vortec350s10

Cool thanks for the info!

vortec350s10

Time for an update if anyone cares.... I was on vacation and also had my compressor and wastegate cap out to a guy from work for powder coating so I haven't done much in the past couple weeks. I did get my hood mounted yesterday, and I have my fuel pressure gauge hooked up now too, since it's mounted in the hood. I installed a manual boost controller and put the 6 lb spring back in. I have been slowly cranking up the MBC and am up to about 6 lbs reading at the manifold. The A/F's are still extremely rich as I have yet to lean out the secondary jets, and I'm gonna try richening up primaries. Timing is 8 degrees base, 26 max right now. With the vacuum advance connected I am seeing as high as 46 degrees during cruise conditions. With the boost referenced fuel pressure gauge I can now see how much the carb hat is pressurizing. It will build pressure very easily even under as little as 1/4 throttle, but since my vacuum/boost gauge is reading under the throttle blades in the manifold it will still read vacuum untill I really get on it. In the condition (as in 1/4 throttle) when the top of the carb is seeing boost but the throttle is barely open, it is leaning out big time -like as high as 17-18 which is making part throttle driveability annoying. It's like there is not enough airflow to pull enough fuel through the main jets. But it's dependent on carb hat pressure being there for it to go lean. The first couple seconds when going from idle to 1/4 throttle before the turbo starts spooling the mixture is fine (13-14) then it goes lean. I have a 9.5 power valve but I wish it was more like a 12.5 if they made one. So I'm gonna try going richer with the main jets and hope it doesn't effect my cruising A/F ratio too much because it is good where it's at now.
My fuel pressure gauge or regulator is kind of acting up, it will sometimes read 6psi, and then sometimes read only 2psi. But if I crank up the regulator at all it will go right up to as high as I set it. I did find that over 7psi on the gauge will overpower the needle and seat on the primary bowl and flood the carb. I compared fuel pressure gauge readings with my little cheapo gauge and it will say 10 psi when my autometer will say 6. So who knows what's going on there, as long as I have some pressure I'm ok for now. I was worried about the underside of the hood getting super hot but it actually doesn't get that hot at all. Next I'm going to disconnect my BOV and see if the sound changes at all when I let off under boost. I don't know if it would make a single pshh sound or multiple which is what I'm hearing now. I don't know what turbo flutter versus a bouncy (if they even do that) BOV sounds like. What do you guys think?

1983sc

iTrader: (6)

i had that same BOV on my procharger setup and it would flutter really bad, i ended up really lightening the spring up and got it to work properly (open at idle) and it went away, i ended up selling it and moved into a TIAL Q 50mm and am really happy with it

vortec350s10

Well the little inline vacuum "filter" that came with the BOV blew apart yesterday so for a test I disconnected the BOV and ran it today to compare. It seemed no different, still got the turbo surge when closing the throttle. Then I connected it without the little filter thing which I think was restricting the vacuum signal like a flow control. That made a difference, I could hear it actually venting for the first time. It would be one high pitched sheesh and then little bit of slight compressor flutter after that. I changed jetting from 64/99 to 69/84. It cured the part throttle lean condition and cleaned up the WOT, maybe a little too much. WOT A/F was running in the low to mid 12's. I think I'm going to drill out some jets to get the secondaries closer to a size 90 jet. I borrowed my brothers GoPro and took a couple videos. Here they are:

http://youtu.be/M5DYibXs0Wg

http://youtu.be/4IT2oSpXKV4

freaky

don't be scared of it .lol

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

NIce

vortec350s10

I tried mounting my muffler under the floor in the stock cat location but it hangs too low so now I think my only option is to run the single 4" back following the stock exhaust routing and mount the muffler in the rear. A single 4" will just barely fit between the cross brace directly above the pan hard bar and the body of the car. I did drive it with the muffler and I love how smooth and quiet it makes it. It still isn't too bad straight piped though either but I like things quieter these days. Does that mean I'm getting old??

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

no I want to muffle my car too, makes it feel more "complete" to me, the raw BLAT-BLAT-BLAT sounds like crap

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Couple questions:
- using junkyard oe turbo's on an app like this, Dodge 5.9, Ford 6.0/7.3, or GM 6.5 which one would be suitable for a mild bottom/mid tpi 350?
- manifolds- I've been looking at the 90's tpi corvette log/tubular anybody used these? flip the pass up and run the xover right 'through' the middle, I want to keep the ac intact.
This is a truck app so I have more run (never enough room it seems) but very close to this install.

vortec350s10

You might want to ask this as a new thread instead of in here and I don't know enough about these stock diesel turbos to make any accurate recommendations. I do know that the turbo I have (Holset H2E) is sometimes used as an upgrade the 7.3 Ford guys sometimes use, so I would assume that a stock 7.3 turbo would probably be in the ballpark as far as sizing goes, but your best bet it to find turbo maps for these turbos and go from there.
As far as the manifolds go, I would do some searching around to try to find answers to those questions. Check out noboostnogo's and ZZ3Astro's builds for some more options.

vortec350s10

Well, update. Good news and bad news. The good- I went to the track last night (Brainerd) and ran 5 times, with a worst of 12.1 @ 118 and a best of 11.55 @ 122.8. I started at 8 psi and fuel pressure and air fuel were looking rock steady. I bumped it up to 9 psi and gained 3 tenths and about 5 mph. Car held together great, till the last run......
when I noticed after letting off a slight vibration/noise that was so subtle I thought I was maybe just imagining it. On the way home which is about 100 miles away, I confirmed that I did have a slight vibration/noise that I hoped was U-joint related. 30 miles from the track I kicked 'er down at about 70 mph in 3rd and bang! Instant grenading action. It sounded like what it would sound like throwing a car into a huge wood chipper while beating on the side of it with a sledgehammer at the same time. I thought my driveshaft came off and was banging around in the driveshaft loop. Even when rolling slowly to a stop it kept going BANG BANG BANG with the speed of the car. When I came to a stop, peaked underneath and it all looked normal. Driveshaft still connected, U joints intact......so I had my friend push it a few feet and observed the driveshaft spin about a half a revolution and then nothing. Just smooth rolling with the driveshaft stationary. I have no idea how it held together the last run down the track. It must have been fatigued just enough during that last run. So I had to call my dad at 10 pm and ask him to bring his truck and trailer. Lucky for me, he agreed to come help, which was awesome. My friend and I had a couple hours before he would arrive, so we look to the right of us and there is this bar across a field. So we jogged all the way around by road to the bar for a few. Finally got home with the car on the trailer at about 2:30am. So tomorrow I plan to tear the cover off and cringe at whatever I see. Apparently my upgrade is going to be happening now instead of later. My 10 bolt has/had richmond 3.42 gears, detroit tru trac diff, 28 spline oem axles, stud girdle cover, all new bearings, and I welded the axle tubes all the way around. Hopefully it will be obvious what happened because right now I don't get it. My 60' times were no faster than last year. Most slower. Best was only 1.86. Now time to figure out what to do: 9 inch or 12 bolt?? I found out I need taller gears anyways. So that's my story.....

vortec350s10

i've got a couple Youtube videos up. If you watch the in-car video, watch my oil pressure. I'm not sure yet what is causing that but will need to find a fix. That was the last run when I noticed the rear end noise.
http://youtu.be/lXolweb_AxA

http://youtu.be/yGnGCPqUPhg

http://youtu.be/wcW48vWlIC8

vortec350s10

The car is still holding up well. I put in a set of 3.23 gears back in the 10 bolt after cleaning out the metal shavings from the grenading pinion. I kind of like the 3.23's over the 3.42's . Cruising it runs 1900 rpm at 70mph and still has enough torque to break the tires loose from a 2nd gear roll on at 40mph. I won't be running my slicks until I get a different rear under the car since I now know how strong the 10 bolt it or isn't. So I think I'm going to build a Ford 9 inch sometime soon but I don't know if I'll have it by this season or not. One problem I'm having is my carb leaking fuel out the rear bowl when under boost. Everything looks flat and even with gaskets it still is wet. Besides that everything is good. Turbos rock!

TwinTurboROC

Just went through this entire post. Sick build. We almost have identical hot sides. Quick question, hows that WG holding up? that looks like the HKS ebay version. Im using a V band style 44mm, but i had one that looked similar to the on you had. You have me wondering if i should have just kept the dam thing and saved myself the aggravation.

built91Z28

I just read this whole thread for the first time. Great build and the engine compartment looks awesome. I'm getting kinda bored with my power level too and was thinking about building an LSx. But this thread really has me considering keeping my motor and turbo'ing it instead. I just want a 10 second slip.

vortec350s10

Thanks, I'll have to keep an eye on your build. As for my WG, I have zero complaints about it, works perfect. Obviously I don't know much about the long term reliability but it comes apart easily if it ever needed anything replaced. As for the ebay HKS copy BOV, that's another story. Getting that damn snap ring on to mount the BOV to the flange piece was one of the toughest things of my whole build. What a joke! Keep up the good work!

vortec350s10

Thanks for the compliments. It has been fun and I'm glad I chose the turbo route. If I would do it all again, I definitely would go LS, they handle so much more boost in stock-ish form. I guess it all depends on how much you would have to change your current gen 1 engine. I think even a budget 5.3 build would turn out better in the long run than my setup. I wouldn't be as afraid to really crank the boost up with one of those. As I'm sure you know, doing all the supporting mods is just as much, if not more work than the actual engine and turbo stuff. Fuel system, tranny, rear end, etc. Looks like you've already got a Ford 9", and that tubular K member has gotta free up even more room for turbo exhaust. I think I have gotten by pretty cheap on my HP per dollar compared to guys that make over 550 NA, it's just that if I want to go to a higher power level nearly everything I have already done would need to be redone again. I doubt I'll be seeing a 10 second slip unless I really crank up the boost and risk blowing everything. But you should do it! The old dilemma, where does a guy stop?! Whatever you do, I'm sure you'll be glad you did. My vote- go for it.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

well, the 3.23's should have a larger pinion, with more teeth and more contact area than the 3.43's, they should be harder to break (OTOH, at this point I've broken 3.23, 3.42, 3.73 and a few 4.10's so none are all that hard to break).

BTW, nice build, I think I like your hot side layout better than most, it looks like on of the few that isn't annoying to work on.

I have lots of little questions for you:
I like your boost gauge mounting in the hood scoop, is that a 2-1/16 or 2-5/8" guage? It looks good in the pics, is it readable IRL?

What did you end up using I think I have at least 2, maybe 3 turbos sitting around with the same flange and have never found a good one for it. I found a 4" that is about the right size at a truck supply, but it's just sheetmetal and doesn't seal well.

WRT to the earl's sandwich adapter, do you know what PN you ended up using? I know that both the 503 and 504 are listed as being the same size and I can't seem to figure out what the difference is between them.

How's the probuilt combination of parts working in the 700? How fast do you think you'll be able to go on it before you blow it up? I've got all sorts of "better" stuff sitting around to use in my next setup but I keep comming back to if I can make it live I prefer a 700, its smaller and lighter that a 400 or 4l80 (I'm really afraid that the 4l80 and a lowered 3rd gen is not a good combination, the pan hangs lower than stock and I've smashed a 700 pan before, 2x), has a better OD then the 4l80, simpler, cheaper and a bolt in. I'm also not thrilled with adding another computer to the whole setup to tinker with. If I gave up on the OD and went 3 speed I'd still rather go 350 to save a little weight and bulk, but I don't believe that that will hold up any better than a 700

vortec350s10

Yeah the hot side turned out pretty well I think, I'm still concerned with the internal mesh on my flex joints breaking down, but I will get a good look when I pull it all apart for coating. V-bands and multiple break points save the day.
The gauge in my hood is 2 5/8", and I'm using it to read fuel pressure even though it's a boost gauge. A lot of guys run those for FP since the range is better than either 0-15 or 0-100. But I'm not too happy with it's accuracy so I'm going to switch back to my 0-15psi FP gauge instead. With my BR FPR I'm not seeing more than 15 psi ever and the resolution when reading base fuel pressure sucks. When the gauge itself is cold, it will read 6-8 psi at idle and when I park it hot and restart it later it will read barely 2psi. But I still have 6-8 psi but it just reads super low for some reason. The visibility of it in the hood is excellent.

From post #80 -

"I actually took a chance and bought a 4" V-band with flanges on ebay that are the OBX brand. They looked wider in the pic than a typical 4" V-band which is what I was hoping, but they never got back to me after I asked them dimensions. I got tired of waiting so I just bought it, and the size ended up just about right. The OD of the flange ring was slightly larger than the outer flange on the turbo housing, so I put the flange ring in the lathe and turned it down slightly.
As for the turbo housing, I milled the whole thing down thinner at work until it matched the width of the new flange. The only thing is that where the new flange and the turbo mate, they are both just flat surfaces, instead of the little lip and groove mating up like on normal v band flanges. I hope it will seal with them just mating up flat."

The Earl's sandwich adapter is a 503. I think the difference might be in the thread where the filter screws on, but I don't remember for sure.

So far I'm absolutely loving my transmission. As far as what I think is the max it can handle? Well Dana says in his description for the pro street elite kit as rated for 750+. I wouldn't trust it as that level but I guess you don't really know what it can handle until it breaks, right? He recommends to cryo the output shaft which I didn't do. I would be surprised if the hard parts in there could handle 750+. It does have so many advantages over switching to a 400, or 4L80E like you said. SOOO much easier. And I agree a TH350 wouldn't be any stronger than a 700. Based on what I've read with other people's experiences and recommendations on power handling, with my setup, nearly everything is maxed out around 600-700hp. Block, rotating assembly, trans, fuel system, turbo, etc. I would guess with a way better launch (after rear end upgrade) and a little more boost I would optimistically shoot for very low 11's. My car could really benefit from a diet but I love having full interior/stereo etc.

TwinTurboROC

If your talking dana from probuilt, they hold up. Also frank from cpt, his holds up as well.

vortec350s10

Well just a little update, car is still holding strong, went up to the track a couple weeks ago to watch a friend run his GTO for the first time and ran mine too, just with my street tires and my used ebay 3.23's. No 9 inch yet. I ran a 12.1 at 120 mph. With a super fast 2.2 60ft! This was at 7psi, and 25 degrees timing, which is a couple degrees less than I ran this spring when I did 11.8 at 118 with drag radials and 3.42 gears. So my conclusion is that the 3.23's help over the 3.42's. I was crossing the traps at 5700 rpm instead of 6100. By 5500 rpm power is falling off and the engine is just making noise and letting the wheel speed try to catch up with the convertor. So by loading it down a bit more with the gears it is pulling more on top end. I'm guessing this would be even more obvious with higher boost levels. I really hope when I get my strong rear end I will be able to try getting the thing spooled a little before launching. When launching from 2000 rpm which isn't too hard to hold back I'm not getting into boost until the very end of first gear. So that's gotta be a huge handicap right there with the ET's.
Here's the vid.
I'm still planning on getting my hot side coated this fall but I want to redo the crossover pipe under the oil pan because I used a cheesy band clamp to connect the piping because there isn't enough room for a v-band there. I'm thinking of necking down both pieces of pipe to 2.25 where they meet to make room for a v-band. It leaks there now a little. I wonder if necking it to 2.25 would have any negative effects?

Kingtal0n

I love your setup, it is very clean. Here are my small recommendations:

#1: go efi when you get a chance
#2: wrap the downpipe and blanket the exhaust housing
#3 pressure test the intercooler plumbing and coolant system

#4: Go to a chassis dyno, Reduce ignition timing to 15* BTDC and compare power output with what you have now. If you lose significant power, then by all means, add timing back in until you get where you were. But if you lose nothing... you have too much timing. And I feel that 20*+ is too much.


I feel that around 7PSI you would have 15-17*
12psi 12-14*
15psi 8-11*

these are pump gas 93 octane conservative (11.5:1 or richer) recommendations to get you started on a chassis dyno. Go no leaner than 11.5:1 under any boost, and In fact, I would throw down 11:1 rock solid anything over 12psi on 93 octane.
The problem with too much timing is this... you cant hear the sort of thing you need to hear with an engine like that, and performance will not suffer so you cannot tell by the seat of your pants if there is too much timing. So basically, you cannot hear or feel too much timing. But what does it do to your engine? If the problem is slight, it will eat up the deck and head gradually causing pitting and removing material. If it is severe, then you know what happens when it happens, and then it is already too late.

One more thing, an EGT gauge would help you with the exact timing (on a chassis dyno). you want a EGT right off the combustion chamber reading about 1350*F, if you pull out timing and it climbs past 1450*F you know you took out too much timing. You could verify by watching the engine's output drop. I always shoot for 1250*F +/- 150*F, and depending on the combination, it may sky rocket near redline, sometimes that is just normal (for small cam big boost engines, like a 3L @ 25psi w/ OEM camshafts around 700rwhp)

vortec350s10

I do want to get this thing on a chassis dyno next year, to see what it's doing and play with my timing like you said. You could be correct about the timing. You don't know if your running too much until it's too late. Pressure testing the cold side- what would that really help with? I know my welds on the BOV flange are not perfectly sealed, but I don't think a small leak on the intercooler piping wouldn't effect much, unless I'm missing something. Thanks for the advice.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

hey post up a full pic of the outside of your car, was gonna nominate you for car of the month but you don't have any good full pics

camaro1122

iTrader: (1)

Do you know what your fuel pressure is? And do you have the boost/vacuum port hooked up?

vortec350s10

Oh nice, that'd be cool. Here's probably the best one I've got that's handy.

vortec350s10

Base is around 4-6 and goes up 1:1 with boost.
If by boost/vacuum port you mean the boost reference port on the regulator, then yes.

camaro1122

iTrader: (1)

Great, just got mine hooked up. Just to ask, and i know you said you never had your car dyno'd. By you estimating, what do you think your car is making? My car should be getting to the shop next week for tuning and dynoing. Id rather not be disappointed with my expectations on the car. My waste gate springs are at 7.3 psi and i have 9 psi springs laying in the garage.

vortec350s10

By using a rwhp calculator and guessing that my car's weight is 3400-3600lbs, it puts it around 500-515 rwhp. With drivetrain losses I'm guessing 600-625 at the crank at 10psi. This was when I trapped 123mph in the quarter. What do you mean your WG springs are at 7.3 psi? They are rated at that or that's what it actually makes? Seems like too specific of a number. With my spring that is supposed to be 6psi I see about 3 at the manifold. And about 7psi with the 12lb spring. It very well could be seeing 12 at the compressor outlet, with the losses coming from a pressure drop through the intercooler, tubing, and carb itself. I'm reading boost at the intake, under the carb. That's what the engine actually "sees". Good luck at the dyno and try to learn all you can while you're there. Make sure you play with timing and see what works so you know how conservative of a tune you can keep without being too down on power. I'd love to know what my timing vs HP looks like. If you don't already have a manual boost controller (mbc) I would get one hooked up before you go so you can have adjustability with your boost. And bring all your springs and stuff of course. Can't wait to hear how it goes.

camaro1122

iTrader: (1)

Hey i forgot to ask one last question, where is your line on the boost reference port running to?

vortec350s10

For the fuel pressure regulator you're gonna want to connect it to the carb hat. BTW I checked out MSD boxes after talking to you and you must have the 6AL-2 Programmable. That's exactly what I want now after reading about it!

camaro1122

iTrader: (1)

So the regulator port will be boost only? No vacuum/boost? And yes that's exactly what i have with the 2 bar map sensor.