Dark Ember

Oh wow! I don't delve much into these forums, but I did not expect this topic to evade my eyes for nearly a year! I just spent an hour reading thorugh all 4 pages of this. Alex your build up is amazing. I bet your professors had no idea you were using your mechanical engineering skills to fabricate a turbo on a 3rd gen lol. You have done an excellent job on this build up, very thorough. I loved the cardboard test intercooler. I wish I had thought of making test fitting applications on some of my fabrications in the past, it would have saved me so much time. I look foward to seeing this car on the 21st at the meet.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

im sure alex wants it at the meet more than we do.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

you have no idea, i'm trans fluid, driveshaft, coolant, and an o2 sensor away from having it drivable

joepackersrock

Ya I suppose the heat is just as terrible if not more so than the cold. And I really can't complain too much about the temps here in the summer. I usually feel like i'm dying if it hits 90. Plus winter gives me a chance to park the beast and save some gas

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

IT RUNS!!!!! and I drove it about 3 miles and back to get lunch today, the BOV spring is too weak so its open at idle making it a PITA to drive but it'll drive. The BOV snaps shut when I give it gas and it bogs, then the turbo starts spooling and the tires start spinning, didn't go over 2800rpm to keep boost down and my head gaskets together since it's untuned but man this thing feels crazy

I have pics and vid I'll upload this evening, here's one pic of it outside

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Nice! what you end up tuning it with? You trying code $59 or what? Sorry if I missed that part in this thread

texascat2

Nice! Track time the 20th?

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

yes I am using $59, well trying LOL. I need to get a 3bar MAP still, I have the ALDL cable, chip burner, and the software from moats, but I want to get the ostrich emulator so I can tune on the fly (kinda) but its another $300+ which Im not so sure I have to spend right now. I'm gonna be reading up on $59 and trying to get a base tune done by next weekend so I can make the houston monthly meet.

hahahaha no, no chance in hell

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

Been reading through this thread and I've gotta say, great job Alex! I'm inspired, because I have been wanting to do a turbo setup on my car for a couple years now, but after spending a lot of time (and money) to get my A/C up and running so I can enjoy my car on things like the Hot Rod Power Tour I really don't want to delete it like most other people have done for turbos.

I think I am going to go with a Turbonetics "Hurricane" series 72 MM turbo (maybe 76...same price, but I think the 72 will work well on my setup) for my car, but I may end up copying quite a bit of what you have done here. Keep up the awesome work and I can't wait to see how it does when you get it tuned!!!

-Paul

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

if you do end up building a similar set up, PM me when you start planning there are a few things I'd do differently to greatly simplify things that I'd be happy to share.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Thats great news man! Car looks real sharp in that pic you posted, especially with that nice clean engine-colored bay! Can't wait to see the HP once you get it tuned right. I also just got some great news...my turbo is getting rebuilt at turbonetics now and they are replacing EVERYTHING but the polished compressor cover lol. All for $740. I'm basically going to get back a brand new ball bearing turbo with my old cover on it. I can't wait!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

I'm VERY excited to get some #'s for it, the turbo sounds mean at cruise I can't wait to hear it spooled up all the way. Nice, thats like a 1/2 price BB turbo! I think with the BB you have to run reduced oil pressure compared to a journal bearing (or vice versa I don't recall) make sure you have a restricter in your feed line if you need it so you don't blow out your new seals!

here's another pic of the car outside, the slope it's on makes the rear wheel gap look bad



the exhaust for now, I will take it back over the axle through a muffler once I get tired of the loudness!





and a startup vid, it's got terrible sound from my phone it sounds MUCH better in person

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Did I send you my 401 bin file? I cant remember if I did or not. It can be of some help I'm sure if you wanted to take a look. It was running well on my car, I did the conversion from Dig's 60lb v6 bin to v8 and made the small changes to make it run smoother, like take out quasi fuel mode.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

no I was never far along enough to use it but it would be super helpful, I'll PM you my email

I have a good tune for this motor w/ 24# injectors to run NA, right now I just want to get it to run well on 2 psi or so so I can drive it a bit to check for leaks and other issues, but I'm not sure how to do that short of disconnecting the intake but then I'd be afraid of over spinning the turbo. With the BOV closed it chokes like it's pulling way to much vacuum because of the new restricted intake (IC/turbo) and the NA tune and computer struggle with the added vacuum or something... not really sure what's going on. after a while it idles nice but still bogs as soon as I touch the throttle

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its sucking thru alot of intake piping and that will restrict your motor. My 401 feels very weak on first throttle hit in low gear before turbos get moving...it just cant breath and cant exhale at the same time.

Chances are it just needs adjusted for all this new stuff. Different characteristics. Probably needs alittle AE tuning since its not getting the air it used to when you open the throttle.

Dark Ember

Nice job man. The engine bay looks great.

alex91z28

awsome!!!!!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

^ oh look at this guy, copying me - 91 z28, named alex, clutch car, 5.7 liter, forced induction...



hahahaha I'm just playin, the similarities are uncanny!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Hey. Just out of curiosity...do you happen to have a part number for the adapter on the oil feed side of your turbo, that goes into the brass filter to adapt it to a -4AN male? I got my turbo back from T-netics and they put one of those brass filter on it which I didn't have before!

Also, how is your drain line working out for you? I know yours has a 90* right out of the turbo like mine. Just wanted to know if you were seeing any smoke or not?

Anyways, thanks man!

Blue 87 IROC-Z

sweet ride man i love the pics i am in the early stages of my build ( still collecting parts ) i love all the work you did and the attention to detail you have given me some great ideas i was going to go log manifold with the tpi but i love the way you used the huggers the cross over and the way you mounted the turbo to the block no other words come to mind but sick and insane the only prob that i have is i am keeping my stock hood and tpi otherwise i would clone your set up keep up the great work and love for the 3rd gen !!!! i know its a work in progress but i would really really love to see more pics too if you have the chance

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

the adapter is a 1/8 NPT to -3an if I remember correctly I'm running -3an BTW, but they should make the same part for -4an, I don't have the PN for it - I got it at the local speed shop. They void the warranty if you remove of tamper with the filter, plus its a good thing to have I imagine.

The oil drain is working great at far as I can tell, I have not had it over 2800 RPM under load but up to 5500 in neutral for a few seconds so the oil was flowing as max capacity. I have not noticed any smoke, it does have 65+ psi of pressure cold and 45+ off idle, 40psi at idle and I'm running -3an so if it was going to be a major issue I imagine it would have shown SOME negative effect by now after a 70 mile cruise on the highway. I will be checking it all out this weekend I'll let you know. Also my oil drain fitting is welded at a slight angle upwards into the block off plate, oops! In all honesty I think the drain is not as sensitive as people say, how many builds do you hear about having major oil drain issue? I have not seen many. Unless there is a serious uphill it should work fine, or if your running a super high oil PSI/flow rate.

Glad ya like it! It was fun building it - I already want to build another one and I'm not even done! My setup will work with TPI and the stock hood, just needs a slightly lower crossover and re-route the IC to TB charge pipe


I plan on beginning to tune the car this weekend, along with putting the hood on and washing the car, Hopefully I'll have some new pics up by monday

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Awesome! Thanks for the heads up. I should have known it was 1/8 inch...I had a brass 1/8 inch fitting lying around so I threaded it in and found out that was the size. Also found a new local AN fitting supplier thats about 15 mins from me. They had the adapter in stock (I'm using a -4 feed) so I went down to pick it up. Place is LOADED with AN fittings...guess I found my new fitting go-to haha.

And as far as the drain, yea, I rarely here of guys having a problem with it. As long as you run a -10 line at the minimum, it's ussually good.

Anyways, def looking forward to seeing your tuning progress. Be sure to post up a few vids or something once you start seeing some boosted driving!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

well I got the WBO2 (PLX gen 2 w/ multigauge) hooked up, 3 bar MAP, and put the correct BOV springs in. Then I got the car to idle on $59 but its WAY rich - like 11:1 and at 1050 RPM but it's idling LOL, pipes are REAL hot with the excess fuel burning in them. I'm using Orr's TT401 bin and I have scaled the base pulse width vs egr% back but not far enough (im running 24# injectors still while the BIN is for 80's so.... yeah I need to scale it back some more). When I put any load on the engine it struggles and drops to 450rpm and the AFR bounces around, and will idle there for a minute then die. I do have a SES light on when I run $59, switch back to my $8d tune and there is no issue so I'm not sure what's going on there?

It's kinda late to be out data logging with no muffler soooo I pretty much done for the evening

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

VE map and settings are likely very different between the 8d you have and my 59. Just needs work. you can try scaling the VE map by a good bit too. 24/80 is .3 so take .3 times the whole table and see what happens.

My bin uses closed throttle idle table and main ve table so at idle its using one thing and open throttle jumps to another table. Only way I got a stable idle but I havent played too much with the main table to dial it in right. The closed throttle table just gives much better resolution.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Ok well I spent some more time messing with the tune today just for fun, until I put in the fuel system (-8 feed, -6 return, 96ish# injectors for e85, twin pumps) I can't really do much with the tune and 24# injectors but I did get it to idle at 14.6 AFR but at 1100 rpm (how to I lower the idle? I adjusted all the idle values to 775 and no luck), and it drives real smooth except it will die if I come of of the throttle too fast at higher RPM. I did get on it pretty good one time (6.6 psi WGspring in, under 4800RPM) after pulling 1.5 degrees per pound of boost along with a 1.25 multiplier in the f77x table over 100kpa, it stayed under 13.3 AFR so I think I'm on the right track just need a little more work in f29x and the PE/AE tables.

I used my $8d timing and VE tables, and manipulated them in excel, then pasted them into your 401 tune. I also used the closed throttle idle table, I used just the main f29x and it would NOT idle with the idle table turned off, then pasted the exact same cells into the closed throttle idle and it worked... weird. Once I did that I played with the "injector constant (vs egr table..)" and I got it to idle best at 14.6:1 with a value of 235! lower values didn't work well since 152 is stock for 40lb injectors in a sy/ty I think, so I used (40/24)*152 which was right at the 255 max value, so I guess a few times and found 235 worked well. Once it idled I took it for an easy drive and watched the AFR and saw it going lean as It got under load so I added the f77x multiplier mentioned above.

SUMMARY:

It's very drivable now with the $59 code as long as I don't really go over 1/2 throttle, the only issue is that it idles at 1100rpm...

I took my N/A timing tables, pulled 1 degree across the board up to 100kpa then pulled 1.5 degrees per PSI over 100 kpa

"injector base pulse width" is set at 235, idle ve table is the same as my na table reduced a tiny bit and idles well, but a bit high

Dies when I push the clutch in and get off of the throttle to fast from high (3500+) RPM

I think I'm ready to data log and use autotune now, but i can't for the life of me get tunerpro to recognize my aldl cable and connect to the ecm! I have the port set to COM4 in "my computer", I have the COM port set to 4 in tunerpro, I have the rest of the tunerpro setting correct, I hook it up to the car (key off) with the switch in the middle position, plug it into the computer, turn on tunerpro, and it doesn't "see" the cable, turn the key on, hit connect, and it wont connect (obviously it can't see the cable). For the record the only thing I have re-pinned is I took out the F4 pin that was used for the air diverter valve and used the connector to hook up the wideband to f14. The IAC shouldn't need to be moved, and neither should the aldl stuff form what I've read since I have a 1991 MAP car. If anyone can clear this up that would be great

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

hey sail are you burning chips or did you get the eblflash.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

chips (proms), I want to get an emulator but thats $$$ I dont have right now

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Probably need to tweak the high rpm, very low map sections. My car had this problem for the longest time and still dies occasionally but working that section of the VE table helped alot. Its hard to tune high rpm, low map areas, you can hit some of them just by free revving and holding at rpm spots to get air fuel readings and making changes from there.

Throttle response will come from acceleration enrichment "pump shot" tuning. That you may have to adjust to from my bin or maybe try setting it back to stock sy/ty settings for now. I added alot of enrichment for my setup. That 400 sucks down air quickly

You can continue to use the multiplier, or just work from the main VE table. Thats what I do, just made all the multipliers 1 and worked from main table for boost tuning.

For idle, there may be some IAC settings to play with to keep throttle more closed instead of idling so high. Also check timing at the desired idle speed and at 1100 rpm to see what its doing.

Ed1LE

iTrader: (39)

Looks great! Motivation to do mine while I have the engine out.

I like that you were able to use the intercooler without cutting up or removing any of the bumper related stuff. And kudos for keeping the AC, makes things a little trickier but you'll appreciate it on those hot summer days!

ZZ3Astro

Nice work... it's a pain to wrench around a clear-coated engine bay, but it really makes the whole car come together!

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Looks sweet!!! Good build so far. Can't wait to hear how it does with a good tune!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Ed1LE, Bullydawg - I can wait to get some injectors and a tune on it either! I really went out of my way to not cut the car up and keep as much stock stuff as possible, it was lots more work but very worth it.

zz3astro - yeah the clear coat is scary to work around, but now I just use heavy duty plastic kitchen wrap on the paint I'm working near to keep from scratching it. It really did give the car a whole new look

If I can get injectors ordered tomorrow I should be able to get tuning it on friday but we'll see

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

did some work on the hood, to repair the cuts in the hood needed to clearance it for my CAI I added some 1.5oz CSM with 3M resin for a base structure, now I can add more and shape it, so I can paint it and you'll never know it was cut! I also cleaned up the notch for the intake pipe and plan to add some trim to tidy it up.

I stopped by the sail boat rigging store and picked up some stainless turnbuckles and 1/8" spectra line to used as hold downs. I also picked up some stainless quick pins for the turn buckles, so in emergencies when the hood needs to be opened FAST it can be.

glass work (it's ugly right now still have lots of work left)





turnbuckles and quick pins:





and the car is dirty again!?!?! WTF i just pressure washed it!!!!!! ahhhhh!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Looks like somebody doesn't have thier airbags plugged in!! Haha, jk. I honestly don't even know what that plug is for. And that hood latch idea is pretty slick. I want to see how it looks on the outside!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

the air bags are plugged in, those are the fog light connectors zip-tied out of sight.


Ehh the set up is ok, it takes a while to open/close the hood, I think I will grab some small pulleys and reduce it to one hidden turn buckle next time i find some time to work on it

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

ok so I got the hood on, the turn buckle idea BLOWS, I dont recommend it. I will be changing the setup to say the least

first bath for the car in 15 months!

Firebreather

Awesome, Alex! I think I am going to start saving for a turbo kit like that. Thanks for sharing.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

Car looks.killer man.
Nice meeting you.the other day.
U gonna make it out to TX2k12 with the car?

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Thanks! Yeah it was good to meet you, always nice to put faces to screen names.

I wish!!!!! I'm gonna be in florida for spring break and wont get back untill that saturday night LATE, like 10 or 12. I may come out sunday to the drag strip but it all depends on how much homework I have due that week

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

First time seeing someone hold a hose like that to wash car. Looks strange.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

... lol, like something straight out of a Benny Hill show.

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

Just read your whole build! Nice man. I really like that you didn't have to really cut much up to get it all together. Get that on a dyno! I wanna see how it all turns out.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

It was clearly a strategic move so the hose didn't accidentally scratch the car...

LOL, you guys have dirty minds!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

HAHAHAHA!!!! I think I was dragging the hose w/ my leg and spraying at the same time since I was in a hurry. I need to throw some injectors in, do the PCV and get some dyno time I know! school is killing me

couple new pics, cleaner but still not washed/waxed

CSIMS87T

AWSOME BUILD BUDDY,THERE IS NOTHING LIKE DIY BUILD I NO YOUR PROUD AND DID A HELL OF A JOB.I AM BUILDING A 91 STOCK SUSP X275 CAMARO AS WE SPEAK AS U NO IT TAKES ALOT OF TIME AND ALOT OF $.ANYWAY IT LOOKS GOOD.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Looking bada$$ Alex!! I still say the car needs: 4thgen nose emblem, semi-gloss black headlight buckets, new parking lamp housings, raise the front end by one inch, and a new or freshly painted Z28 grill. Then you can deliver it back to me...

By the way, we still need to grab that beer at that establishment we have previously discussed...

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

thanks mike! we think alike.. see below

have um, just need to install

yes, and the back down one. I got these springs for a song and have been to lazy to swap um out again since they are clearly NOT the right ones once fuel/tuning is sorted out paint/stance/tires/interior are getting some work done

I'm thinking so also

Maybe, may not need it if once the headlight buckets are black I'll have to wait and see

its freshly painted and sitting on my shelf, it goes in on friday with the parking lamps

This for sure!

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Let me know the next time you think you'll be back for the weekend...

Here's the emblem in reference..... shiny and stick on!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Schools out may 10th~ish, I'm workign in La Port from then untill august so I'll be in town! and maybe I can get this thing done while I'm at it...

Hmm that emblem does look good, I'd have to set one on the bumper and take a good look at it to make a decision.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

took care of some small things today, added two breathers instead of the PCV system for now, no more oil leaks now I just need a catch can... Also washed it and took some ok pics.

front end all buttoned up (the hood still needs some adjustment)


hood open


hood closed


random rear shot, not the best since i couldn't get back far enough