89fbrestor

after i get the accessories on i'll make a wounder bay type set up to hold the turbos temporarily for positioning. i'm really trying to not loose my patience with this and just take my time. i have a vision in my head i just have to stick with it

89fbrestor

hey guys do turbos have to be supported by the motor. meaning can i have them held up by something in the engine bay or is it a must to have them move with the motor?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its common to brace turbos up because the weight overhanging on manifolds/pipes can cause warping and cracking over time. But if you support it by using something in the engine bay thats not connected to the motor, and the motor has poly or rubber mounts, then you could have issues. If turbo is braced to the frame for instance, and motor wants to naturally torque in its soft mounts, the turbo piping will be forced to flex and steel pipe does not like to flex.

You'd need a flex coupler or bellow of some sort to allow for movement. If solid engine mounts then you are good to go. Nothing will move so brace to whatever you want.

My first setup had manifolds opening straight up and turbos sat on them. It was a natural support so no bracing was needed. The log/hybrid manifolds I had were very sturdy. My new setup places turbos out and away from headers and that would have a large moment of force acting on the flange and primary tubes. Could cause cracking or warping. So I braced the turbo to the fender wells using homemade mounts. Now my problem was motor is on poly mounts and will flex while turbo can not. So I put in flex couplers before turbo to make up for the movement.

I have flex couplers on my exhaust after downpipes too for the same reason...to allow things to move

89fbrestor

orr do you mean something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-inch-ID-X-...55bd99&vxp=mtr

if so then I'm pretty sure i know how I'm going to mount the turbos. the alt is going to be low mount pass side, the power steering pump will be in same location as stock third gen, those two coolers i fitted a few minutes ago and they will be sunk in my battery cutout on an angle blowing backwards toward the front wheels (hope that makes sense) then the turbos will be mounted on the rails next to the battery cut outs using the "flex couplers". if i can do it this way everything will be symmetrical and it would keep the area between the motor and the radiator clean and clear.

i'll get some pics as soon as i get some of this fabbed up. I'll be stopping by tsc tomorrow to get some steel and hopefully get some of this done this week end. I'll post pics...... I'm so excited lol

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

The ones you want for pre turbo operation are the braided ones with inner liner like this
http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...Coupler+Bellow

I'm running those but the 2.5" version since my feed pipes are 2.5" going into the T4 flanges.

The others can work but can wear out over time...sometimes its short sometimes it lasts alittle while. When they blow out, they fill like this:




Now the couplers are fairly flexible and depending how you do this, the turbo may sag down or be very loose. You may still need to make a mount for the turbo. I'm not sure how you are going to do it.

89fbrestor

i'll post pics when i get this done but I'm thinking the turbos will mount solid to the rail via the 4 bolts that are in the flange thingy. so there wont be any flex in the turbo then from the header to the turbo which would look like an L straight forward to in front of the rad then 90 deg. over to the turbo. anyway thank for the link ill post some pics asap .... its gonna look great lol

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Wow, those couplers turn into head gasket blowers & piston crackers when they fail under boost. Coupler fails in a restricted sense so EBP goes way high while still under intake boost......bye bye engine.
Best choice is to make brackets to bolt to the engine and support the turbos with no flex pipe pre-turbo.

89fbrestor

*sigh* now why did you have to go and say that... now i have to research this out before i purchase and do the work lol thanks for the info its greatly appreciated. i'll call up some manufacturers and check this out. it would be the solution to how i want to set up my system though if it works.

thanks

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah they can fail, so you have to keep up on maintenance and check them periodically. The couplers used in that car werent the same as the lined treadstone ones but they probably still can fail with that much heat and pressure over time.

Last guy i seen post about a coupling failure noticed backpressure problems and car slowed down....wasnt getting the hp out of it that it used to. Finally after checking various things, he checked the exhaust and found the coupler restriction from the failure of the braided steel. So even while under boost and such, he did not have head gasket blowing problems or anything like that but I guess it COULD happen. Depending where you mount turbo, it may be impossible to brace to motor. If turbos are out in the battery trays, how do you brace that to the motor?

89fbrestor

i'm thinking turbos braced to side rails next to battery tray. normal looking turbo header out to the front. flange from turbo facing toward centerline of engine bay so the connections would be a simple L pipe from header to turbo flange and i could put the flex coupler in the straight section.. this is just an idea as of right now but i'll play with it and get some pics. up.

i checked out that link orr and there couplers look pretty nice. i'm going to order two of them today, at $30 a piece if they dont work out its not like i'll be out hundreds of dollors so i think its worth looking into.

to me this set up if it works will make ease of access for maintenance, installation etc. ... or its just a waste of mental power and i'm proving to everyone my elevator stops before the top floor lolololol

89fbrestor

hey guys i wanted to work on the turbos but I'm waiting for a couple tools and parts to come in the mail. so today i continued on with the coolers. any input, hows it look? should i put in a new piece of steel to cover up the battery trays and hide them or keep the trays open. i have them both fitted and the mounts are welded in now so they are done until i pull the motor and do all the pretty stuff.

stupid question... what are those "oil catch cans" i see on ls motor for? do i need one whats there function? that's a little down the road as i haven't even started the motor build yet but just wanted to know so i could put it on my list if i need it.

thanks

89fbrestor

hey guys just thought i'd share. my wife put together a youtube vid of everthing i've done to the car so far. little more then whats in this thread so if anyone is interested

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzk2buipYW0

89fbrestor

OK for my first try at headers... that was not fun. i THINK they came out OK. I'm going to have a friend weld them up who has a better welder then me... and can weld better lol i still have the other side to do but after 8 hours to do this side i think I'll wait till next weekend for the other side lol

project89

iTrader: (1)

nice job

89fbrestor

thanks, it sucked and i don't think i will attempt these again but thanks lol

TwinTurboROC

Are you gonna mount the turbos to the header? or remote mount them? Good job so far.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i say mount them to the headers and do twin ebay 76's like the one mag did they made over 1000 hp with a stock 4.8 and 2 ebay 76's

TwinTurboROC

You read that one too? Though it was 1200hp.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I was gonna say, you should have mocked up the headers first with tack welds, and then once its fitted in place, take each primary tube off separately and weld the tubes first, then put them back on to weld the collector star together....basically the 4 tubes join together, you weld the inside of the 4 tubes shut with a piece of metal, a star shaped piece. Then slip collector on and weld around the outside to seal it off.

Kinda hard to tell on yours but you may be ok and beable to weld around all the primary tube joints and still get at the collector well enough. On mine, there were some spots you could not weld and had to do each tube piece by piece, then collectors last.

TwinTurboROC

If anyone wants a good read. And one of those I hate GM moments.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah great artical and it was 1,000+ i belive

89fbrestor

lol now you tell me orr thanks lolol ya i was looking at that thinking "crap that's gonna bite" I'll do it that way on the other side.

i will be mounting the turbos to the frame of the car and using a flex coupler and solid motor mounts. closer to the battery trays.

that article is what made me sell my older 350 and get this 5.3. I'm going to redo my motor though where as theirs was just a jy motor and they made a boot load of hp.

my turbos are 57mm's I'll be happy if i make the 800hp mark. with what all i have planned for the motor i think I'll reach it. plus I'm setting this up to be able to upgrade to some bigger turbos so we'll see where it all ends up.

thanks for chiming in guys.

89fbrestor

well i got a little more done today. moving kinda slow the last two weekends. this header only took me about 3hrs this time

89fbrestor

new part in the mail today 44mm wast gates woohoo .... i love new parts lol

Z28FAST1

Props for welding those yourself.

Looking forward to some impressive results!

89fbrestor

just quick update. headers are done and ready to go to weld. i pulled the collectors off to clean them up a bit more and spot weld on the piece that goes between the tubes.

my first set of ls turbo headers, 1 3/4 primaries to 3 1/2 collectors oh ya I'm the man ... in a very amateur way lolol

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

they look pretty good.
Actually, better than some log manifold builds ive seen.
Have you considered on3 turbos? Looks like they are doing very well on ls motors and others. Im have single tc78 for my 4.8. One single tc78 supports about 850bhp. or 650-680rwhp thru built th400/12bolt.
Some meth injection prolly make another 20rw with pump gas.

89fbrestor

page 2 post #54 are the turbos i have for this build. i'm hoping with those i make it to 850hp and ya i do plan on running meth, myster and just for fun maybe a small shot of nos well providing i finish this one. this is my 8th camaro and i admit i am kinda burnt out on working with these cars i have my wife convinced to let me get a lambo and i'm really getting close to pulling the trigger on that...we'll see.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i am all for ebay turbos but stay far far far far far away from on3 stuff, granted its the same stuff everyone on ebay has but the guy is a total jerk.
not to mention u can buy the same exact turbos form other sellers for about 150 bucks less.

on3 never has and never will stand behind his stuff period

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

Yep,
I hear that. I just pay more for good ole proven tnetics.
Some folks like the low buck stuff.
Tnetics has a warranty as long as dont break there seal.
Ive dealt with the warranty before. Good enuff exp. For me to always go back for there products

89fbrestor

my first turbo build... i'm happy with the ebay turbos

TwinTurboROC

LOl i have a on 3 76mm on my blue iroc, AHAHAJAHAJAHAHA and your right hes a bit of a tool. Last time i will be dealing with him.

Btw i have scoured a bit, and almost all the legit t4 7X turbos seem to be around the same price ( the ones with the billet backing plate) Have you found any ones that are cheaper?

Nice work on the headers so far.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

Nothing wrong with that.
Ive had turbo failure before, and turbonetics repaired and even upgraded the damaged turbo free of charge. I paid for shipping.
Im in about 1000$ for my tc78 and evolution 38mm wg.
Not trying to knock on ur build in any way.
ive built a turbo kit or 2
Just saying that with tnetics. U get proven performance,quality,service and warranty

89fbrestor

oh i totally agree. for me being kind of a newbie to wrenching i'd rather skip out on some of the higher $ parts for my learning curve. if all this goes well i'm sure with in a year of playing with this build i'll revamp and sink more $ into it. this will be the first car i'v had or even been in with kind of hp. i'v had a few turbo supras that scared the poo out of most i gave rides to and i bet none of them were close to what i'm trying to get build to acheive. all that to say just, i'm having fun and moving forward lol

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

I hear that!
My first turbo build was on my 99 ws6. I used a h1e off a 5.9 cummins dodge, my uncle gave me. a hks wg. That i got used from a local bmw shop. A used ic from a toyota celica supra. It all worked and ran dam hard.
I think you will never want to go back to anything but turbo LS from now on

89fbrestor

well no pic update but i did get my tans cross member made up today. not sure I'll get to much approval with it but i might add a little more to it before i take some pics

89fbrestor

i had the machine shop at my company notch my flanges so i could flush mount my piping this way i can port match my flange piping to my turbo housing. i plan on port/polishing my turbo housing and i hope this will just help the flow. now i need to figure out how to form the piping to fit the flange.... any advice would be great guys

vortec350s10

I just skimmed through this whole thread. I gotta say awesome job so far! You make me want to switch to an LS engine. They are so much better to start with than a gen 1 small block. Nice job on the headers too. As for the 4.11's, I think you are going to realize they are going to be way overkill for the car's new power level. With boost, the torque comes on so strong and early it will pull any kind of gearing you can literally throw at it. I had 3.42's and have switched to 3.23's. It will still search for traction until 3rd gear. And I'm making less that 600hp, much lower than your potential. Plus cruising at 2k at 70mph is pretty nice! What are you running for a convertor? I would stress that as an important item to get correct. I know when you get it done your going to love boost! I'd be very excited if I was you.....

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like you've come up with a solution to the flex coupler hazards, but here's a different option I've seen guys use recently. These are OEM style exhaust bellows.

http://www.dmeexpansionjoints.com/exhaust-bellows.htm


Looks like a nice build. Subscribed!

89fbrestor

vortec, thanks for the words of encouragement. honestly I've had little motivation to get out there lately and work on this car but i know I'll be happy with it when its done. anyway as far as rear gears... i was thinking 308's and for torque converter i looked into it a few months ago and it was something d torque converter... it was about $1000. I'm not worried about it yet. i figure i'll get everything else done and send the trans out last.

88, thanks for the link. ya I'm going to solid mount the motor and support the turbos from the frame rails. i'm hoping to finish up my trans crossmember tomorrow and then start on the brackets to hold the turbos. once those are done the motor can come back out for rebuild and i can finish up shaving the engine bay and running everything.

thanks guys really appreciate the comments... its motivation

TwinTurboROC

A hammer and dolly works good. If you got some thick tubing (roll cage thickness) or even some thick round bar, you can weld together a T shape, Put it in a vise and basicly hammer it out in the shape. Make sure you measure the -> CIRCUMFERENCE <- of the tube vs the outer area of the square flange. You may need a bigger pipe than what your using.

Should roughly be 8.34 if those are standard t3 flanges.

so figure 8.34 divided by 3.14 = 2.65 ... so if my math is correct, and it NEVER is, you should be able to use a 2.50 pipe. Check the outside circumference with a tailors tape (the little ones that flex).

Double check your flange to make sure it has the normal dimensions

Picture attached of a t3 flange with dimentions.

Hope it helps

TwinTurboROC

That style of flex pipe can make certain exhaust setups have a whistling sound. It has something to do with the turbulence created with all the ridges. I only use interlocking flexes before turbo setups.

89fbrestor

thanks guys, much appreciated.

89fbrestor

well i ran out of steel to finish it up but i spent some time out in the garage tonight and this is what i have so far. in my mind it looks pretty cool ... but in my mind short pale and pudgy is what woman really want and I'm all that lolol and my wife would say "keep dreaming" lol please no comments on the bubble gum welds lol i know.. i know BUT this is the only time I'm ever going to get this involved in a build and i just cant justify buying an expensive welder so. i work with what i have. i need to finish up the torque arm mount and the drive shaft loop which i will do when i get some more stock. let me know how what ya think

89fbrestor

kinda busy today working on the house but i was able to sneak a few minutes in the garage this evening.

Batass

I think a hard breaking driveshaft at 800hp would rip right through that.

89fbrestor

ya i wont disagree with ya... I'm still thinking i still have to add my torque arm mount and i will probably tie that in somewhere as well. it is surprisingly strong though. i threw it on the ground and stood on it and i couldn't get that thing to flex. anyway there will be more, I'm not finished.

thanks

89fbrestor

well just in case anyone didn't know.... sanding an engine bay for paint.. not fun. not exactly interesting pics but its work getting done. hopefully ill be ready to paint by tonight.

89fbrestor

well i wish i would have put the paint in my gun and sprayed it it went on so smooth on the underbody.. maybe by morning after it relaxes I'll feel a little better about it. it looks OK from a distance but up close .. bla. oh well its done and now time to move on.

89fbrestor

little elbow grease, mineral spirits and some paint and things clean up nicely