anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Made up the downpipe. I guess depending on snow tomorrow, if I'm not busy plowing I'll work on the wastegate.

I bought a 50MM wastegate. I guess I'll throw the 38MM on ebay.

I also got a "5.8 psi" spring.

So I guess when it comes in, I'll finish this up. I'm a few welds away from it running again.

P.s, don't try tig welding stainless with green band elecrtrodes. I didn't have any red's in my toolbox, and I tried tigging with the green. It's impossible to maintain the arc on stainless welding with DC.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The xs-power drivers header actually fits the thirdgen quite well. I think I'm gonna use it. Will cut the 3 bolt flange off and run the flex and vband to crossover.

Transmission blew up in snowblower so I gotta fix that tomorrow. And it's -10 degrees tonight.

-- Joe

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

joe...why selling the 38mm waste gate? im running a 38mm with no problems yet

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I have some concerns that a 38mm gate won't be able to limit boost low enough since my flange will be at 90* from the log.

-- Joe

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

looking great. Cant wait to see it done. Resembles the setup I have. Lookks like you did the same thing the guy I bought it from did. Started with the same kit. Then cut it all off the P.Side and made it custom.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Spinning it fast eats the thrust bearing a little faster. I wouldn't worry about it with the amount of use it will see, and the price of the turbo. If anything, you will out grow it before wearing it out. RPM Limit it to limit the hair dryer effect.

I forgot you had a TIG welder already, and that you wanted to MIG it.


You did what most are afraid to do. That is make the manifold/header. That kit is a good starting point for the intended turbo, but limits choice. I kind of see it as a 600HP header and turbo combo. Is the 406" a GM block? If so, that is a good combo because you can't push it too far. I think overall that the block, exhaust, turbo will be maxed out 700 HP and will make excellent torque way down low.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Thanks! Did I ever see pictures of your parts? I can't recall.

Out of the box, this stuff will fit a straight plug L98 with minor cutting of the crossover. For a stock L98, a GT35 with internal wastegate and this kit would be killer. For guys like us with built motors they need more re-working but are a great starting point for the money.

I've never tigged stainless before. It's not quite the same as carbon steel. Until I got the TIG setup right, I'd get sparks, I'd get blow through, etc.

I spent some time last night playing with the TIG on 85 amps, DCEN, 10 cf/hr argon and If I move stupid fast I can get a decent weld. If I stay in one spot I get blow through. Unfortunately, I don't have the right collets for 1/16" electrodes so I'm working with my 1/8" green bands (for aluminum). I think I'm going to try using the TIG to finish everything because I'm starting to get a handle on it to the point where my welds are looking better than with the MIG.

Keep in mind, I don't have a foot pedal on this machine (Miller econotwin HF) so I have to set my amperage and go.

This is a stock GM 406 2 bolt main from 1976, bored .060 over (yes!). I have some serious concerns about breaking the block. We did some of the normal things like plugging the deck, but realistically I don't know what the power limits are of the block itself. So the 700 HP upper limit of this manifold design is probably just peachy for me at this point.

I'll run it as is and go from there. Now that I have a little more experience welding on headers/manifolds, I think I'd probably just buy a flange and j-bends next time around and weld it up custom. I'd prefer the turbo to be in front of the head, with a "Y" connection so exhaust could be split between the T4/T6 flange and wastegate. With this manifold design, even if I cut the T4 flange off and welded a T6 we're height limitted. As it is, the T76 rubs the hood brace and I had to smash the valve cover with a BFH.

I've learned a lot about turbos in the past month though. I'm glad I started this winter project. Even if I do end up re-doing the whole thing next season, education is priceless.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Driver site header pics. Notice how well it clears everything?

The flange will be cut off however, and replaced with a vband.

-- Joe

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I think so. If I recall you inquired about buying it when I had it F/S.
Ton os pics here.
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/Car...vert/383/TC78/

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Ahh yes ! I remember I asked you what size it was. I kinda wanted your headers, but not the turbo and other stuff and figured you wouldn't split it up. The design is basically how I want to make a header in the future, with the turbo like in front of the head.

-- Joe

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Ahh oh well. I did say in one of the post id split it up. Prob. answering someones question. Might have been in a PM. Ive had a ton of pic's requests,etc just no bites. So I think im gonna start to mess with the car again. Picked up a T56 to put iv vs the Th400 combo. So I have a little motivation to mess with it again.

GL with your build. Looks awesome. Im always reading the stuff your doing.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I forgot you went with the 76mm compressor. I was thinking you bought the GT45. You have plenty of compressor, but turbine limited. I would install a bung with NPT threads on the log manifold so you can measure back pressure later on. Did you go with the standard A/R or the T4-1.15 A/R?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Nah I went with the .96 A/R.

A 1.15 A/R was available, but had no specs on the turbine wheel.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The 50MM wastegate isn't going to fit 90* off the log. Not enough room between it and the shock tower. In the only awkward spot I can lay the thing without it hitting something, there is no reasonable way to run the pipes.

I'm really tempted to cut this manifold up again. If I cut the 90* and the T4 flange off, I can merge the #2 primary into the log. I can then extend the log 3 inches forward (just measured), and angle it down slightly. This would get more hood clearance. I can then weld the WG flange on the end of the log.

If I did that, and ran the WG flange on the end of the log, would you still run the 50MM or think the 38MM would be good enough?

Yeah. The more I think about it I'm modifying the header into a full log. I've been looking at Chris's setup:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...rbo-setup.html

The turbo moved forward is in a better spot. I can drop it down a hair, and make enough room to run a T88 or soemthing bigger in the future. Plus I can put the WG on the end of the log which would be a lot nicer. Then just come 90* out of the WG and merge into the downpipe along the frame rail.

I'll cut it up and tack it together tomorrow and post pics.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Almost done modifying the header (again). Just gotta finish up the welds and put the WG flange on.

Welding it with the TIG.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Done I think. I put a 1/4" NPT fitting on the log for an EGT or pressure sensor. I'm thinking of putting another vband on the downpipe to make this easier to take apart when needed. I did most of the welding with the TIG, except for the downpipe which I use the MIG on.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Ok. Header is done, wastegate is done. Downpipe almost done.

What do you guys think?


I'm thinking of moving my intercooler. Now that I've got so much room without the blower, I can slant my radiator back and reduce the number of bends the intercooler has to snake around the frame like this dude:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...208-post2.html

-- Joe

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

looks good.

I dont like having the intercooler right against the radiator, once the car is hot unless you have been moving long enough or run the fans constantly to cool the intercooler it will be heatsoaked (between passes and such)

Mine is mounted with a 5" gap, and I want to put a fan on just the intercooler

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Looking really good Joe, am anticipating an idle clip soon...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Thanks guys!

Didn't have much time to work on it this weekend. Had to bail a buddy out of a jiffy with his Ford dump truck.

Anyway. So the header is done,turbo is bolted on. Crossover is done, and bolted up. Oil drain is complete. Welded a 1/2" NPT fitting to the fuel pump blockoff. Downpipe is done, welded o2 bung on it. I've got about 8" left of exhaust to do. Everything is Vband clamped so it can come apart easy.

I gotta put a -4 45* fitting in the top of the block tomorrow and connect the oil feed.

Unfortunately, some of the conversion required things like my wideband moved, battery cables re-routed, etc so I gotta finish all that before I can start it.

I won't have the intake connected to the throttle body because I have a few misc bends to make since the outlet is in such a different spot that my procharger. Is it ok to idle the car with it disconnected ? I suspect at idle it could never build enough turbine RPM to be a safety issue, right ? I'd be willing to bet none of you hear your wastegates opening at idle?

I'm going to have about 5 90 degree bends, and 3 or 4 45 degree bends in the intercooler setup. I suspect pressure drop will be quite high. I was going to move the intercooler but I cannot since the turbo is so far forward now.

If pressure drop is too much, I might go with the air/water intercooler down the road like twin-turbo did. Since my turbo is in front of the engine, I can just 90* it to the driver side and right into the IC, then just two more 90s into the throttle body. Right now the air/air IC snakes around the frame up the battery trays.

-- Joe

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Starting and idling with comp pipe disconnected will be fine. All you are watching out for is over-speeding the shaft. That will not happen at idle.

I put NPT fittings on the pipe out of the compressor, inlet to IC, outlet of IC. That way there is no guessing. Easier to do this than experiment with stuff like some people do. It gives you a straight answer. You can hook up a MAP sensor to any location or just use pressure guages and watch them.

If the pipe is a concern then at least put an NPT fitting on each end to measure drop.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That's not a bad idea. I've got a couple of spare 5volt inputs that I can program for additional map sensors. I'll give that a whirl.

Where do you normally hookup your WG vac/boost source, intake or turbo outlet ?

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

intake , just because if u hook it to the turbo outlet and u have a 2-3 psi drop in the piping thats 2-3 less psi in the intake , hooking it to the intake makes sure that u get the rated spring presure worth of boost into the engine

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Almost done. #6 plug boot rubs the header, and I need to find one of those plug wire retainers that bolts to the block.

I need to find a real short gasket seat plug. Or run the wire without a boot. (which would probably alternatively arc against the header)..

Ordered the last few things I needed (some silicone, a tight radius 90*). Should have it running by next weekend.

The amount of fabrication and things I had to relocate, splice, etc is absurd. Two months (of weekends).

-- Joe

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

Make sure you wrap the hell outta the down pipe and put a turbo blanket on. Hate to see you ruin the hood. Looks good otherwise man

project89

iTrader: (1)

looking good
turbos aint easy but they are well worth the effort once u get to the end result

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

truth!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Thanks guys.

Yeah I'm wrapping the whole downpipe, and I have a turbo blanket.

Here's a view of the downpipe from under the car, and the rest of the exhaust.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So, even with a big hammer smash and accel 'short' spark plugs, my plug boot (#6) still touches the header (crossover section). Damn angle plug heads.

I'm not sure what to do here. I tried cutting down a spark plug, but apparently porcelin is the hardest material on the planet. After 5 minutes the only thing that was short was my grinding stone.

I can take everything back out of the car, cut the header and reweld it but that would really suck.



-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

get some boot sleves , and wrap the pipe were the plug boot hits, should be enough to keep it from burning the boot

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I have modified many things in my life, but this is the first time I have modified a spark plug.

Boot clears now, and I put one of those fiberglass sleeves over it as well for extra protection.

I guess in theory I can start it. Only thing left is a few t-clamps that have not showed up in the mail yet, and I gotta change the spring in the WG and hook a vac line to it.

Why is there two ports on the WG? I believe you're supposed to use the one closest to the flange. What is the top one for?

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

top port gets left open to atmosphere unless u run a boost controller

how the hell did u modify the spark plug lol

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Cut the top off(metal part), then ground down the porcelain with a diamond blade. Then turned down the center post, slid the nipple over it (that the wire end snaps onto), and put a tiny spot weld on the very top so it wouldn't slide off.

Took about 20 minutes.

So anyway, it runs. I took a video which I'll upload in a bit. It's got a few exhaust leaks, I suspect the vband clamps maybe even the header flange. Will tackle those tomorrow or next week.

Edit. VIDEO:

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Joe that sounds freaking awesome...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Thanks!

I've got a few kinks to work out, mainly some exhaust leaks but. It's coming along.

I've still gotta put the interior together, and paint some misc stuff (mirrors, hood insert, rear wing, door handles, etc).

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If it touches it will eventually burn through, even with the sleeves and wrap. Been there done that twice

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That's why I cut the plug down. It was either that or get new heads.

Ideally, one would use straight plugs with these. The crossover has to come down where it is, but the plug is in the way. If it was moved back an inch it would hit the #8 plug. Can't win.

I am half tempted to sell the AFR-210s and pick up some cheap Chinese 200cc headers with straight plugs. That way if I grenade the motor I won't freak out over ruining good heads. But I'd probably lose my shirt trying to resell the 210s.

-- Joe

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

Joe.....i ran straight plug heads when i had that style manifold setup....my biggest issue was the spark plugs isse on the #8 primary tube......did some cutting and welding like you did then eventually bought the headers i have now and picked up a set of trick flow g1 heads that were redone. I think the setup i have now works alot better even though i will end up redoing my crossover and welding v bands on the headers for a cleaner looking setup.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The #8 primary was an easy fix, but the crossover being between #8 and #6 kind of sucks with angle plug heads.

I suppose I could cut out a section of the crossover (on the manifold) and weld in a big dimple, but that would be lame.

-- Joe

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

wish i coulda told you not to buy that setup before you bought it. all that time to reconfigure the setup

project89

iTrader: (1)

this is the setup im using on my twin turbo 353

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cxracing-Twin-Single-Turbo-Header-Small-Block-Chevy-SBC-GM-265-283-302-305-307-/141058298872?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20d7bad3f8&vxp=mtr
good for twin or single turbos, and u cant build them for 399$ unless u already have the flanges/tubing and collectors + vbands

helluva deal for what u get

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Well, I think for the money it's still not bad. Bends and flanges cost more than the sum of the whole 'kit'.

I may redo the header again. I did some measuring and I think I can better center the crossover on the log. But probably not until I run this for a while (assuming the exhaust leaks go away).

I actually thought about welding up boxed manifolds with some 3/8" ID round stock for bolt passages so they can be bolted with long bolts rather than traditional header style flanges.

-- Joe

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

For the money it wasnt a bad idea....since there are no turbo kits out there specially disigned for our cars we have to make do with what we can find or fabricate. I hope this works well for and expect some videos

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I think it will work enough to beat on the car a little bit.

I realize tubular stuff flows better, but I bet a log manifold made out of 1/2" header flanges, and 1/4" box steel would be damn durable.

-- Joe

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

indeed ive been toying the idea of making my own headers but at this time i am just gonna put v bands on them and redo the hot side

project89

iTrader: (1)

that will change this summer, me and a friend are going to start offering mild steel bolt on hotside kits with a few downpipe options for tpi and carbed f-bodys, and we will be doing a few mustang kits as well

so far the plan is a log style twin kit , and a large single kit for the f-bodys

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

that would be interesting to see something offered for our cars

project89

iTrader: (1)

were just waiting on a few pieces of equipment so i can keep all fab in house to keep cost down.

ive been down this road before , with sheetmetal intakes and turbo headers for the v6 guys , everyone said they wanted some but then all bitched about the price , only ended up selling a handful

f-body owners are cheap bastards,myself included lol.
sometimes i wonder why i dont design and build stuff for the vette guys instead .
atleast 90% of those guys are willing to spend some money

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

lol indeed we like to shop around..............im glad to see more turbo third gens on here...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Well. It's basically finished. Unfortunately, I have some exhaust leaks that won't go away. The WG flange is leaking in the center, which I guess means it warped from welding. The vband on the turbo itself leaks so much that it farted condensation on my valve cover. (wtf!?). I think the vband on the crossover leaks.

I can't tell if any of the primaries leak, but I'd be willing to bet they do. I used a steel header gasket. I wonder if I should unbolt it and use a soft felpro.

-- Joe