anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I sold my procharger, and am now reconfiguring things for a single turbo setup.

motor is a:

412" SBC
Hurricane singleplane EFI intake
Edelbrock 3848 elbow, 95MM
LS2 cable driven throttle body, 94MM
AFR 210 heads, 9.3:1 compression
NX276HR cam
Hydroboost (astro style)

Intercooler is all in place from the procharger, but will require some minor re-routing as I flipped the throttle body to the driver side since the turbo will be on the passenger side. I'm happier this way also because I have more room on the driver side for my PS pump tank, and by turning the throttle body over I have enough room to get the valve covers off. (IAC pointing up, hood bulge allows clearance).

I just need to modify the passenger serp bracket, perhaps with a smaller idler/ac delete pulley and some cutting.


Thinking of a T70 to start with.

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

which t70 were u looking at ? if its an ebay unit id start off with the larger units

on a side note i did some more digging around as per the pm's and the gt45 will max at 600 , not 550 like i originally said

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I was actually thinking about the On3 T70:

http://www.poweraddersolutions.com/f...bocharger.html

What are your impressions?

My motor pretty much flat lines at 5500, so my biggest concern is having something spool as early as possible. I'll probably be shifting at 6k, and if everything works the way I want it to i'll be crossing the traps between 5800 - 6200.

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

its a decent choice but please dont buy anything from that a hole , u should go read about on3 at the turbo forums and all the ppl he has screwed and his non exsistant warranty

also notice the 3 different pictures of the turbo in the page

if u do buy it make sure pas will honor the warranty on it

edit though reading it again it doesnt look like there is any warranty on it

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its buy at your own risk with any of the cheap stuff. I have seen on3 t76's and they actually looked really nice. Your mileage may vary

project89

iTrader: (1)

pretty much , though ive found u have a much better chance of getting an ebay seller to replace the unit then u ever do of on3 standing behind there stuff

at that price id go right for the ebay gt45 it has a solid track record , theres a 100+ page thread on the turbo forums about the ebay gt45

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'm not really worried about a unit breaking and needing to throw it away, I'm more concerned about a failure causing metal to go into the intake. I suspect their also might be an issue of metal shavings in the drain.

For $200-300 if I ate a turbo a year I'd be cool with it. Not willing to take out the motor though..

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

the on3 70mm is 70mm compressor and 94mm exducer
the gt45 is 70/102

the on3 has a nicer turbine option

without anything else i would be worried about the on3 turbo because it is a standard shaft turbo , basically the same size shaft u find on the t3/t4 hybrids

the ebay gt45 and the larger t72+ turbos are all large shaft turbos

if u stick with an on3 turbo get the 76mm as im pretty sure its also a large shaft unit

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Do you think the 102 on the ebay GT45 will spool slower than the on3 T70?

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If gt45 is t6 it will spool slower

project89

iTrader: (1)

the gt45 is a t4 1.05 on a stockish 350 they are spooled up by 3k rpms

turbotater

i doubt that turbos exhaust wheel could come close to working with a 400" motor. the "gt45" is a t4 type (slightly different) inlet with a 87mm x 77mm exhaust wheel and that would be a better fit in an inexpensive turbo as well as be more adaptable to other turbos later.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

This might be a stupid quetion, but I don't have much experience with turbos. How do you tell a T4 from a T6? Like, I know they all say "T4 flange", but when Orr talks about a GT45 that is a T6 vs a T4, how does one tell?

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

the t6 flange is huge compared to a t4 flange , none of the ebay gt45's come with t6 flanges

project89

iTrader: (1)

there ya go

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Oh I see, so if it has a T4 flange it's a T4 period, there is no like T4/T6 hybrid thing going on?

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

simple answer is no

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I got my XS-power single turbo header(s).

So to clarify, this is the chinesium parts. Impressions? Well, I'm not a turbo expert but I am pretty good at fabricating and welding. These appear to be made out of stainless, and are tig welded. The primaries on the TURBO header are 1.75" as advertised. The inside of all ports is ported/ground down for smooth flow transitions. The welds have ample penetration with no pinholes. The flanges are .400 thick, and the primaries appear to be around .060" which is 16 gauge. This is a square port flange, not round.

They look better made than most hedman/hooker headers I've seen. They are stainless.. I think they will work out just fine.

The driver side header is everything the turbo side is, except that it's 1.6" primary, and from what I understand it won't clear the steering shaft (in stock form) for a thirdgen. I'll use my SLP 1 3/4" driver side header.

The crossover tube is 16 gauge as well. But welded in the center, and the weld looks good.

I realize that these are made in China, and supposedly they are knock off BBS headers. But honestly whoever welds these in China is a pro! And the price.. $210 shipped in 3 days..

-- Joe

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I think the engine specs are geared more toward a high HP engine vs high torque engine. With that, I would lean toward a T6 flange and not be afraid to run a decent sized A/R turbine. Something like the BW400S75CW with 1.39 A/R T6.

The china GT45 will spool probably at 2000 RPM and run out of wind up top. A very fun street setup.

Best bet is to design the exhaust for at T6 flange and room for the T6 turbo. Then put a T6 to T4 spacer on it if you want to run the T4 GT45 first to experiment with it.

Ideal situation, I would run a BW400S80CW and 1.39 A/R T6 on that engine. A decent / scary street setup and a 9 second race setup.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

If you cut it apart, you would see that the welds are gone over at the end to pretty them up. You can see inside they were not back purged or had any sheilding applied during welding. Some say they will fall apart. I say it depends on the application. I think in your case it will be fine.

They driver's side may fit in your application. Would allow you to use the crossover as is. Probably will need a small starter to fit the crossover supplied.

If you went with this header then I think you are stuck with a T4 sized frame turbo. The second gen has less hood clearance up front than a thirdgen. Something to keep in mind when choosing a turbo / compresor side wheel and A/R. Putting a T6 adapter and T6 in there probably won't fit.
The wastegate arrangement is strange in that all of cyl2 is relieved and all other cyls are relieved down the cyl2 pipe. Strange, but works I guess.

project89

iTrader: (1)

care to take some pics , last time i had a set in my hands they looked ok but actually werent , im curious to see if anything has changed on them

the gt45 is a big heavy turbo and if u go that route some extra bracing would be a good idea , also no matter what turbo u do go with , cut the x over in half and weld in a flex pipe. that alone will help with all the flexxing the stainless does and will make the header last alot longer


i have first hand experiance with those headers and adding in a flex pipe makes a huge difference

project89

iTrader: (1)

i was going to suggest a t6 turbo for him first turbo i started on my car was a tv7512 basically a 76mm t6 turbo , with the header he has i dont think it would clear the hood, the t6 turbo is slightly larger ( depending on what compressor cover) then the gt45 and that just fits on that header

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

TV7512 76mm CW and .96 A/R-T6 would work great too. Right in the middle of the BW and the GT45. The good thing about the T6 series is that the compressor A/R fits the wheel better than an over-stuffed T4 comp housing. But then there is less room.

I like the SSAC single setup and GT45 combo for 600-700HP so it will be interesting how it works on a 412" engine that is already up there.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i have 2 of those exact turbos for my 427 , 76mm compressor with t6 .9x turbines

anyways heres some pics with a ruller across a gt45 so u can see its actual size

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

FAIL.
Only beer cans and body parts should be used to measure turbos.

project89

iTrader: (1)

lmao ok to make up for it here is a 76mm t6 turbo nexto my foot , and a 2 liter bottle of coke

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Joe, my buddy Paul used to run the Chinese headers for a backup as a quick fix when a crack became prevalent during competition in his GN. They held good up until a point until they too succumbed to cracking, which was after a few 30-psi runs, but by that time he had the others rewelded. They should workout well for you at lower boost levels...

project89

iTrader: (1)

i remeber that the xover tube split down the seam

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That was four to five years ago Dave, a lot has changed since then. Paul has since been close to running 9.5x at 3500 pounds on the stock 109 block with small valve iron heads (not even 1.80" on the intake) and alky, second fastest GN w/109 block running w/alky car in the world, soon to be first...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hey man,

I actually sold the second gen 2 years ago (after I finished it) and now have a thirdgen. Basically did a frame off (as much as you could) on this one, mediablast, paint, etc. 20k in receipts since March 2012 and I did all the labor . Probably worth a good $6k

Anyhow, I vaguely remember someone telling me you're supposed to backfill the tubes with 70/30 before welding stainless but I can't for the life of me remember why. I suspect these were welded up in china, then gone over by someone here in the US. Every inch of every port has been smoothed and transitioned. Anyway, my point was that the welding is better than *I* can do, and I've been welding since the early 90s. Then again, maybe I still suck.


Anyway, yeah WG is the only odd part. (same merge as BBS header). Would drilling a 1.5" hole on the hot side of the turbo and welding a WG flange there be a bad idea? (assuming their was enough room for such a thing).

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'm really strongly considering the on3 T76.. I realize the guy is an absolute jackass, but the foxbody forums are full of guys that have had lots of good luck with that turbo. (and a few who want to hang chad, but still). I suspect based on the posts that if you get what you paid for, you are good. If he sends you the wrong thing, might as well just buy another rather than trying to argue with him.

Anyway, here is some pictures I just took. My tig is setup for alum right now, but I suppose I just need to change my consumables and heat and I can weld up a bracket to connect the front of the head to the flange to anchor it down a little better. I'm honestly more concerned about pulling the threads out of my alum AFR heads.

What is the deal with the #6 plug on these? I don't get why they didn't merge the #8 primary into the crossover higher up rather than that drop down...?

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/turbo/

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Imo its a terrible layout for low boost control with a 38mm gate. My old log hybrid setup vented 2 cylinders and 6 psi spring gave 8.5 psi and now with the right header setup with gate located before turbo flange and now see proper 6 psi. Thats a twin setup. Now on a single turbo with all 8 cyl venting thru it, its not gonna work to well imo

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It needs to be the way it is for proper downpipe, valve cover and oil dipstick clearance...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Ahh. My dipstick is on the other side.

I'm tempted to cut off the WG flange and do it differently. Any suggestions?

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I placed mine behind the turbo, on the crossover just before the flange. It hooks/dumps to the downpipe very easily, and spring changes are a breeze...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Got a picture for reference?

I'm pulling a motor out of a boat this weekend (siezed) which I'll use to mock this up on the stand. Gonna need some serious serpentine bracket reworking I suspect at least.

I was gonna wire up a GM WG solenoid to my megasquirt, and just use the MS to control the wastegate.

-- Joe

34blazer

Or solar flux at the very least?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yeah I remember now, to keep the back side of the weld corroding. The inside of the headers where all the welds are is brown, which indicates they didn't backpurge.

Which means that creates a weak point in the stainless I guess. I'd be willing to bet my SLP's were done the same way, except the welds on the SLP's look like they were done with a coat hanger and a car battery.

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I don't want to clog up your build thread with pics. I got some pics in my build thread, but the final pics with everything hooked up I will PM you to show you. I too molested the serpentine setup, and will give you the part number of the shorter belt if you happen to run it the same way that I did if you want it. Definitely looking forward to your progress, the paint alone looks killer...

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The T76 wheel would work great.
Yes, back purging or shielding with solar flux allows the weld to flow without impurities. It doesn't look snotty on the backside.

I removed cyl #2 pipe and installed a 90* pipe going straight into the log at the T4 flange. Then installed a pipe off of the log for the WG. I know I have pics and will look for them this weekend to post. The welds are not Harbor Freight fluxcore welds so I will post instead of hiding in a PM.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Sounds good. I'm about 100% certain I'm going to at min cut off this WG flange and move it. I'm tempted to weld it to the hot side housing.

But yeah pics would be appreciated.

Can I use my mig with 100% argon? I've got a full bottle on my tig, which will take me two seconds to move over to my mig, and I can pick up 2lbs of whatever wire is recommended for stainless. I'm assuming a low carbon .023" ?

-- Joe

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Depending on the application, sometimes I do a tack weld with the MIG on stainless and then do the full weld with the TIG. Most times I do all welding with the TIG on stainless. This is not completely necesary but gives the best weld.

You can weld it with your MIG. I would use your MIG 75/25 gas before using 100 Argon.
Read this one page doc: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...t-welders.aspx

The last paragraph talks about gas choice and loss of corrosion resistance and weld impurities. I don't see that as a big deal for your application and parts. The weld will probably not be that pretty.

Some exhaust shops will weld 409 with 70S6 wire in the MIG. Is it right? No. Does it last a while? Yes

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

pic

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Anyone happen to have a picture of the crossover UNDER the car?

Like, they don't try to stuff this between the center of the A-arm and the starter do they?

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Run a small 2-2.25" pipe it will feed it and fit better

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I agree with Orr. The SSAC copied the original crossover that appears to be designed for a mini starter. I had to cut up the crossover to fit with a stock starter, but there was enough room to go around the starter in my application.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I have a staggered mini starter. I'll have to mock it up and see how it fits.

I think I'll redo the #2 primary like you did, but I think I'm gonna put the WG flange on the hot side housing. Been doing a lot of reading on the forums, and by putting it in the stream or on the housing itself is a lot more effective than 90* . Because of the way this header is designed it doesn't leave a lot of room, in fact, it looks like this design is more for an internal WG.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah with gas stream works best but 90 can work fine if large enough. No issues with my setup, its about 90 deg off the turbo flange. Controls low boost fine and high boost on the controller fine as well

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The On3 T76 showed up today. The hot side was full of oil (machining oil?) but otherwise, both housings measure properly and both wheels are spot on measurement wise. So far at least I got what I paid for. Now to find out how long it lasts.

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

take the housings off check for machining burrs , and blow air threw the center cartridge and make sure not metal chips are in it , be sure to prelube turbo before first startup , pulling the coil wire and cranking for a few seconds is usually enough to preoil the turbo

witht he cheap turbos after doing that this is my routine

start engine , lelt it get to temp shut off , let everything cool and do it 1-2 more times


next time i take it for a drive and boost lightly 2-4 psi and let it cool fully


basically i heat cycle the turbo a few times ive always done this and never had an ebay/china turbo fail , except for one turbine oil seal , which was my fault and not the turbos