92RSZ

iTrader: (6)

I gave you proof that it can and it does. Engine rpm is the key here. I even did the math for you. Cfm is cfm regardless of base horsepower. Diggler just spelled it out for you again too. A 300 horsepower tpi engine will make 8 psi with that pulley combo at 5000rpm because it becomes very restrictive as rpm rises. Mine makes 7psi at 6800rpm. Big difference in engine rpm equals big difference in impeller rpm. It's pretty simple math. All you've explained is you don't know how a procharger works. I must be smoking some good crack, this pulley combo made my 550 horse car much faster lol. To the op, you're serpentine belt rubbing on that spacer might be pulling on the bracket and flexing it. Also might check and be sure your bypass valve is staying shut too.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Bypass is remaining shut as there is no air sound and the BOV is releasing air when throttle is released. Its the Big Red Race valve. Bracket could be flexing with the belt. I'm going to put a spring tensioner upgrade on the Procharger belt since I have it off at the moment for a new engine belt.

I've talked to Tony Mamo and he suspects a bit of valve float but a dyno would be able to tell that. But, I'll go make a few runs after I get everything from hitting as well as the belt ran as best as I can.

After that, then it looks like I'll be upgrading the valvetrain.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

Yea work with the bracket and tensioner some more and get it on the dyno. If boost climbs all the way through the run then its not slipping. If boost climbs all the way but hp falls off a cliff somewhere 5k+, I would say valve float.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

a friend on mine from here (AC) no longer on here had a 383 d1sc 210 afr and his car would only make 4or 5 psi they said that unit was to small for his motor. I have an F1a i'm putting together now but not yet installed it and the other thing with that plug looked to lean in that picture

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

Not too small for a 383. Sounds like he needed to speed up the blower or his belt was slipping. Or he had a leak in the charge piping somewhere.

92RSZ

iTrader: (6)

A d1sc is a serious street blower. Definitely not too small for a 383. For example, a typical 383 that turns 7000rpm (which isn't common for a street engine) at 100% ve (which almost never happens unless it's pure race) can take in 775 cfm. A d1sc is capable of producing almost double that. It's plenty for my engine. F1a gives plenty of room to grow though.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Ok, well, after several things, I changed the ign. module back to the 369 from the DynaMod ign. module and it is fixed. It will not spin all the way up to 6000 without any problems. Got some tuning to do now. I also put a tensioner on the supercharger belt and the engine belt was rubbing the alt spacers so I had to grind that down a bit. After all of that was fix, I finally hit 8 psi at 5700 rpms before I shut down. Now, let the fine tuning begin.

Thanks for everyone's input but who knew a ign. module would act up only after 5100 rpms....

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Glad you got it figured out, surprising though there is only about a 3psi difference between your engine and my at the time stock TPI 350. I'm assuming you still have the 4" pulley on as well.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

It's just touching 8 psi at 5700 rpms where I let off. In the end, my goal is 6300-6600rpms, just need to play around one day at the track and see what nets the best results. After I get it tuned on 93, I'm going to splash in some C16 or something for cooling effect in the cylinders and then retune so I'll have two tunes. One for the track and one for the street but I'll probably just run 5 gallons of it every tank since I usually just drive it on the weekend.

I talked to Tony Mamo now that he has his own company and he didn't seem surprised when I said that. He said that a custom cam with the correct valve events would lower the boost and produce more power then I could pulley down a bit more. He said the intake duration was about right but needed a bit more exhaust and more lift. He also suggested a wider LSA like a 114 or something like that. So, that might be a tax season project. I'll probably get him to do a custom spec as he would be the best to do that as he designed the cylinder heads.

Oh, and I did the spring tensioner as well. I used a Dayco tensioner but from CAT as it already has the bigger pulley on it. I also had to get a much shorter belt as I removed all the idler pulleys due to interference with the spring tensioner (belts touching) and I had to drop the spring tensioner down about an 1 1/4" for the lack of idler pulleys. I thought about adding one idler pulley need the Procharger pulley just to take up some of the slack but didn't know if that was a good idea or now.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Didnt get a chance to reply but i knew it was nothing to do with the blower
I was gonna say it has to be ignition or valve float if it cant rev past 5100.
The only other thing would be a intake filter sucking shut on the headunit

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

Blower problem was a seperate issue causing boost to fall off.

frost289

Looks like spark blowout to me,what gap were u running on plugs?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Refresh us on your ignition. Isn't the factory module only being used as a trigger to the top of the line MSD box and coil? The module would have no affect on spark blow out in that case since the MSD box is firing the coil. Sounds like a junk module.

frost289

Looks like only half the plug is burning,with the amount of air flow across the piston crown looks as if plug itself is firing to the side.just my opinion,but I was running a 2.0 ecotec with 22lbs boost from blower and had to gap plugs real tight because of spark blowout up top in upper rpms.maybe something for u to look at,hope it helps.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Street Lethem leaves the conversation and the problem is now fixed....



Coincidence????

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Crane ignition module, coil, 369 ign module under distributor, Taylor wires, 8 degree plugs NGK plugs, .026 gap
.026 at the moment. Picture was taken with DynaMod ign. module installed.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If the spark energy is hot enough, you shouldnt have an issue blowing out. I run .026" gap or so to 30 psi lol 7000 rpm. Havent noticed an issue with ls1 coils. However hot they are you would need about that

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

I have a Jacob's coil that I can put with the Crane and might try that as well...so just going to be testing and see what's up from here.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Its an expensive fix, but my graph cleaned up a lot after going to a MSD Blaster II(the big one).

Glad to see its working out much better!

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

~$50 ain't bad for a new coil. I do have a Jacob's laying around that worked great when I had it on the truck with the Jacob's ignition box. I may put the Ultra Coil back on it and see what happens.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Is it a stock type remote mounted coil like the tpi 87+ cars had? Do you want to try my old accel coil? I think its an accel coil lol cant remember but i still have it. Will be using it on my 91 build just dont need it yet

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

I'm going to throw the Jacob's Ultra Coil I have laying around. The MSD Blaster is 45,000 volts. The Jacob's is 65,000 volts. One I'm using currently is 40,000.

So, going with the Jacob's.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8253/

That is the one I am using.... I'd try what you have first and see if there is any difference!

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Ignore the voltage output. Go to the manufacturer website and get the "coil resistance" and "coil inductance. Put it in this calculator: http://www.bgsoflex.com/igncoil.html

Change the dwell angle to 80 degrees.
Change the resistance and inductance to the values you got from manufacturer website
Change the voltage to 13.5 volts

Look at the output for "Enery(joules)". Look at the "primary current". A stock small cap HEI module can do a max of about 6.5 amps. So, if the column shows less than 6.5 amps at a given rpm then the coil kind of sucks. A better coil would want more current.

Plugging in the numbers for a stock small cap coil with stock module gives: .058 joules at 6500 RPM. Note current is lower than 6.5.

Plugging in the numbers for a stock Vortec coil and module gives: .108 joules at 6500 RPM. Module current limits around 7.5 amps. Good good.

Plugging in the numbers for a MSD blaster II (large one) with stock small cap hei module gives (.355 ohms, 6.9 mH) : .050 joules at 6500 RPM. Note current is lower than 6.5. Same as stock TPI HEI small cap coil.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

That coils rocks with .160 ohms and 3.5 mH, but needs the associated module to give it full potential. That setup has about the same or better performance of the vortec setup.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Plugging in the numbers for a Jacobs Ultra (.80 ohms, 5.2mH) with stock small cap hei module gives : .054 joules at 6500 RPM. Note current is lower than 6.5.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Interesting. However, the website notes that its not for a CD system like MSD, Crane, or Jacobs so what do you do for that?

This program simulates a conventional automotive ignition circuit, and shows you primary coil current, secondary voltage, and energy. This model is for conventional Kettering ignition (i.e points and electronic-switched primary), not the capacitive-discharge type (i.e. MSD and other aftermarket systems).

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the above numbers are for inductive system fired using a 13.5volts and current limited by the module. CDI is different. CDI is a high voltage applied to the coil. The CDI box applies a current limited high voltage signal to the coil positive terminal.

For CDI: Either you need the voltage and current limit from the manufacturer to do the simulation, or do like most do and use the coil that the manufacturer calls out for the CDI box. They are usually designed to be optimal for each other. Get the current and voltage like I listed about for the HEI module (13.5v, 6.5amps) to do the sim.

What CDI box are you firing that coil with?

EDIT: Looking at the MSD 6AL/6A. Specs are .7 amps input current per 1,000 rpm. At 6500 rpm, that is .7*6.5 = 4.55 amps. Lets say during the spark firing of .5 ms that no current is drawn. So overall, 4.55 (2.5/2.0) = 5.7 amps average over a complete firing time. Comparing to a HEI coil & module, the module averages around 6 amps at 6500 rpm charge time.
What have we learned here, that a CDI box at RPM may not provide any more spark energy than a inductive coil setup.
Thte specs for the 6AL/6A say "up to 135 mj" of spark energy. At lower rpms it can outspark the inductive box.

The power out of a box can't exceed the power into a box.
MSD states .7A per 1,000. So, 13.5v * 6.5 * .7 = 61 Watts
The HEI setup at 6500, 13.5v * (.7*6.5 + .3 *5) = 81 watts
The Vortec setup at 6500, 13.5v * (7.5) = 101 watts

I hope someone checks my math...........
but this is why I run the vortec ignition.
Note that the vortec/LT1 module is external to the dizzy and has a dedicated heatsink on it to handle the extra heat from higher current.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

I have the Crane Hi-6 Box. I do have the Crane Coil which came with it but didn't run that one and I have the Jacob's Ultra Coil. I was going to probably switch to the Jacob's but just the depends.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

That is an awesome CDI box and an awesome coil. One of my first choices for CDI stuff. The LX-92 coil is .23 ohms, 1.7mh. That setup kicks but together. Use the LX-92 coil. The Jacobs is a far lesser coil. You will gain double the spark output going to the LX-92 coil over the Jacobs.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Ok, I'll switch to the Crane's coil tonight and report back later tonight!

Thanks!

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

I have the PS91, still a good idea?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The PS-91 specs are: .43 ohms, 5.5mH. Extremely close to a stock small cap HEI coil.

Electrically it has the equivilent performance of the Jaobs Ultra coil. I would say that at high rpm that the PS-91 has about 5 to 10% more spark energy. I don't think you would notice a difference between the two coils.

At lower RPMs, the PS-91 has more spark potential than the Jacobs Ultra, but it depends on what the CDI box limits current to.
If I had a choice between the two coils I would install the PS-91. I don't think you will notice a difference though. Just means at low rpm you could run it a bit leaner and not misfire.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

So the PS-92 is a hotter spark so I need to get that one?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Get the part number off the Hi-6 box. I think the hottest ignition setup is when the LX-92 (not PS) coil is used. The instructions / spec sheet for it lists the recommended coil. If it is the Hi-6 I am thinking of then the LX-92 coil would give way better spark and it was they recommend for max output.

I thought they only kitted the Hi-6 with LX-92 coil?

EDIT: Did some digging. Sounds like you have the HI-6S. That uses the LX-91 or PS-91 coil. They are pretty close in terms of specs with LX-91 having a slight advantage. I think the most spark energy you will get out of that CDI box is with either coil.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Part number on the box says 6000-6300.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

yup, that is the HI-6S box. See post above. Still a great box, just not as hot as the HI-6.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Well, I can always go back to the Jacobs system. I have their box and coil or upgrade to another system.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

First and foremost, let me point out your ignorance because you don't know how to read. He never even reached 5800-RPM when he first started having issues in his first thread, he shut down at 5300-RPM because the engine would not rev, and I told him it was because of his timing which gave a similar effect to that of valve float, it was skewed. Now we find out it was inferior spark. This was already talked about in the first thread, so kindly pull your head from your behind. Now,what are you talking about I left the conversation? My friend, for someone with a decent looking vehicle, you sure are a complete and total loser for looking to take this any further with me than it already had been. I left this conversation because people "insisted" it was belt slippage when it wasn't, and I got a PM telling me that you wrote some nonsense in my direction. As for which pulleys he is running, I have no clue which pulley he is running anymore because information is scattered, and I really don't even care for that matter. I looked at his tune, I gave my opinion, and even Tony Mamo felt it was valve float for crying out loud, but I was pointing towards timing, and when his timing was fixed, I still knew <cough> that it wasn't <cough> belt slippage. I helped the best way that I could, so if you want to make this to be any more than some romper room nonsense by saying Street Lethal left the conversation, do yourself a big favor... and grow up.

Reading is fun-de-mental Nuff, and that is "Nuff" said on my part...

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

Timing wont cause boost to fall off.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Once again Dig, we're right back to where we left off. Who said timing causes boost to fall off? Who? I never once said that he "lost" boost, you did by saying belt slippage, remember? You don't "lose" boost, boost is what it is, a resistance measure. He never reached higher than 5300-RPM, and he questioned why he wasn't seeing 8-psi at that RPM range. He went as high as 6-psi, so what the heck is it that you talking about lol? Is he hitting 8-psi at 5300-RPM, or 5700/5800-RPM now that he can actually rev that high? If he is still seeing 6-psi at 5300-RPM, then nothing has changed other than he is able to rev, and if you carefully reinspect his first thread, you will see that I was pointing to timing as the culprit, and once that was fixed and he was able to maintain 6-psi but still capped at 5300-RPM, while still not seeing 8-psi, I was focusing on the engine's cfm intake with increased RPM, and now that we know he was having "spark" issues at that RPM, it is obvious why boost didn't go any higher. It wasn't lost, the engine wasn't calling for it. Are you seriously still arguing this lol? Seriously lol? You said belt slippage, I did not, would you like me to quote how many times you did...?

Edit: Yenko, I am glad you fixed what was wrong, and I hope you enjoy your ride. However, there is no question why so many of the great tuners from this website have left this website and moved on to other forums. The mentality here is so very childish. Best of luck with your boosted engine.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I think there was two problems:

1) Boost falling off at high rpm. Cured by fixing slipping belt.
2) RPM limited. Cured by replacing the dizzy module.

I think he is good to go now.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

the first post of this whole thing he said boost was falling off in the upper rpms and he posted what the map sensor was reading, showing the boost falling off to 3 psi or something. the engine didnt just decide to start using a whole bunch more air somehow at 5500 or whatever it was... they dont do that.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i would agree.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Agreed with #2 completely. I called to DUI that makes DynaMod and I'm sending it back to them for a refund. He said it happens from time to time but next step is to go to the Crane HI-6 from the HI-6S. The Spark Output from the HI-6 is 1200 millijoules compared to 135 millijoules.

Belt slip...only had an issue on one pull with residue on the bracket so I think it was the engine causing a load on the supercharger itself but I did put a spring tensioner on the belt so hopefully that fixed that.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Been doing a lot of reading on ignition systems. I'm going to slap the Jacobs I have backl on the truck. It has a higher spark output and discharges more volts at 535v to the coil vs. 450v. The jacobs coils are also a max of 65000v with a 85:1 turn ratio compares to 45000v and 54:1 turn ratio. Thus, I can double my voltage potential switch systema. I also ohmes the plug wires and found that one was 310 compared to the rest at 107-170 depending on length. So, I had a spare and replaced that one. I also tested the coil wire and it was 1070...wow! So, I replaced it as well with a 130ohm wire. We shall see if this works better or worse.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

That should help

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

What is the part number on the jacobs cdi box?

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

I'll get the serial number when I get home.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i have a hi-6r i would sell minus the timing adjustment ****. (not sure where it got to?) this box worked fine on an LT1 with a vortech s-trim at 8psi.