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First off, id like to thank anyone involved that answered all my questions along the way and shannon @ shannons engineering for all the help, and the one hell of a price on this kit.
To start, Im running a GM 350 HO crate engine, holley stealth ram with 60#'s and a kirban AFPR for those who dont know.
The kit says its good for 5-8 PSI on a mildly build SBC.
My thoughts were that i was gonna have clearance problems with the crank pulley and my huge spohn sway bar, but i assure you it clears.... barely.
Main bracket replaces the existing one that holds your alt/PS. In order to fit the PS pump on you have to switch pump pulleys (Some people dont, for w/e reason i dont know) I used a pulley 2001 grand prix pulley. just small enough to clear the box. Youll need a smaller belt, but its that or dont run the blower, and thats just silly! The top of the aluminum bracket will have to be ground down flush between the bolt holes, NOT past the structural part though.
Now in terms of the actual blower bracket, Youll need to do a template of where the 4 holes mount to the cast bracket. Trace it out on paper, then with light behind it position it close to the top, and tape it up. Cut out holes around the circles so you can pull the paper tight and not get wrinkles. Slowly drill out all of them, and that should put the bracket low enough to where the V3 clears your hood. (yes i have newer motor mounts if your wondering) Take your time, Start with a small bit and work your way up so they stay centered.
Now for the alternator mounting, Because the bracket is lower youll need to shave the case of the alternator. I opted this route because id rather buy another $90 autozone alternator than a $4-500 Vortech bracket if **** didnt work out. Shave the back side down, and the insides of where the alternator bolts up. Nice smooth and flush and she should sit in place just fine. I had to pull mine in/out about 25-30 times to make sure it sat right. BELT ALIGNMENT IS KEY. Take your time.
Once the alternator is installed you can clock the blower accordinly. Im not running a intercooler to start, so im going over the alternator. I'll need a silicone pipe as the steel pipe i have isnt curved for the bend i wasnt thinking about over the alternator.
At the moment, Im at a stand still. Apparently someone at Vortech forgot to pack my blower pulley, and all the related hardware.
More to come this week.
It should be a 6" and a 3.33 when i get it. I honestly didnt even think to verify the crank pulley before i slapped it on. Im in for a wild ride if thats the case.
It should be a 6" and a 3.33 when i get it. I honestly didnt even think to verify the crank pulley before i slapped it on. Im in for a wild ride if thats the case.
That's what I'm running right now, 6 and a 3.33 10 rib. I figure I'm going to eventually need to go to a 2.50" to get max boost (49,000 RPM).
So your V3 gearbox with the 6/3.33 will be 38,000 which is good for getting used to the combo, breaking it in, doing your initial tune.
Here is my old S-trim on my former Thirdgen:
That was a 7.5" crank pulley and 3.33" blower pulley. (46,000 rpm).
Just to give you a comparison, the stock pulleys in the TPI kit (when it was sold) was 7.5" and 3.48, which is 44,000 RPM.
Mines a 6 rib, I think if i eventuially go to a smaller blower pulley, ill just buy a whole kit and jump on the 10 rib band wagon
So for the 6 rib, they just used a stock fbody crank pulley and that's 7.5". Unfortunately, the hub on the spacer you have it too large to center a stock pulley. The TPI used
As far as the discharge pipe, that's a 90* mandrel bend but that would not work with your HSR. Your throttle body is too far forward. In fact, the centerline of the blower is too far back. You need an offset discharge pipe.
So for the 6 rib, they just used a stock fbody crank pulley and that's 7.5". Unfortunately, the hub on the spacer you have it too large to center a stock pulley. The TPI used
As far as the discharge pipe, that's a 90* mandrel bend but that would not work with your HSR. Your throttle body is too far forward. In fact, the centerline of the blower is too far back. You need an offset discharge pipe.
-- Joe
Those are probably hard to find since they don't make the TPI kit anymore. Might just want to clock the blower outlet towards the outer fender like mine is and run a 180 degree intake pipe and then another 90 degree pipe to the throttle body inlet.
I have a bunch of 3 inch intercooler/intake pipes left if you want me to ship what I think you will need to you. You will have to cut and fit it on your own. You can use a sawzall (ok) or cut-off wheel (better) if you have a vise to hold the pipes with.
I wrapped the driver's side header, even though it has a coating on the headers also. The guy I bought my new blower from raced in the mustang series for years and said there is no power difference in filter or pipe+filter, but the velocity stacks are worth some power. I am leaving it as is. My brake booster and the coils on the valve covers get in the way for a 4" tube.
Those will work if he runs an intercooler or something and comes in from the passenger side, but he won't be able to connect it directly to the blower because of the angles. If the head unit was much more forward it would work.
Those will work if he runs an intercooler or something and comes in from the passenger side, but he won't be able to connect it directly to the blower because of the angles. If the head unit was much more forward it would work.
They are angled for both directions, whether from drivers or passengers, you only need to flip them depending on the direction you need. That is why I attached the second picture, because the second picture shows it facing the correct way for his application, and it is only flipped. As for the minor difference in degrees from the blower outlet, he only needs the correct silicone adapter to make it work. 30* should do the trick. It obviously requires some fabrication on his part, but that is easy..
They are angled for both directions, whether from drivers or passengers, you only need to flip them depending on the direction you need. That is why I attached the second picture, because the second picture shows it facing the correct way for his application, and it is only flipped. As for the minor difference in degrees from the blower outlet, he only needs the correct silicone adapter to make it work. 30* should do the trick. It obviously requires some fabrication on his part, but that is easy..
It won't work. I've been there. I had the same setup in the early 2000s. The centerline of the blower is almost in the middle of the throttle body. He would need a minimum of two bends, and have to cut up the cast part, but the distance between the throttle body and blower outlet is not long enough to fit those.
Joe I am not arguing with you brother, I believe you when you mention the side pics. But, this is what I was referring to (this is obviously a procharger), and the intake tubing I showed him will get him in that ball park, but he has a lot of cutting and fitting to do. It's easy, just requires a lot of patience...
Joe I am not arguing with you brother, I believe you when you mention the side pics. But, this is what I was referring to (this is obviously a procharger), and the intake tubing I showed him will get him in that ball park, but he has a lot of cutting and fitting to do. It's easy, just requires a lot of patience...
I know, I'm just saying I tried it once. The discharge out of the blower is damn close to the throttle body for bends. It can be done with some cutting and splicing, but I think he may end up cutting most of the cast part up.
Well after a long wait, Its finally on. Had to use a 55" belt because of the lowered height of it. I mocked up the intake pipe and have to just get a 3/8 pipe tape so i can put my IAT sensor in it.
Figured i'd let it run for a bit. Sounds so good :twisted: This thing moves a TON of air. I can only imagine what a bigger head unit is like. http://s113.photobucket.com/user/aia...u1stm.mp4.html
All mounted up. Bypass valve installed. The only snag i hit, was i had to oval the steel charge pipe between the two silicone connectors. No way it was gonna clear the hood. Little bit of heat and it bent nice and easy. Tapped it for my IAT sensor, painted it black, and trimmed the bottom side of the hood a smidge for peace of mind. Fits nice.
Now i just need to switch out the bypass valve with a stronger spring, and i need to find 3.5" flexable tubing to move the air filter.
Ive been driving it on 5-5.5 lbs and its very fun. I do need to either get a intercooler on it or make a cold air. IAT temps are higher at lower speeds, How ever im not entirely sure its actualy air temp. I think the steel charge pipe is absorbing the heat from the radiator. I can step on it in 3rd or 4th gear and watch the IAT reading go DOWN 30 or so degrees.
Wondering what your iat's are without an intercooler when driving?
Looks good.
According to a post on yellowbullet, wrapping the driver's side header is supposed to be worth some power when using the filter over the header like you and i are using. I have coated headers and i wrapped my drivers side header anyway. Didn't do a before and after comparison though.
Update: I finally got around to finding some reasonably priced, heat resistant 3.5" ID tubing that wasn't $500 for 20 ft. It actually came from home depot, Its labeled as 4" irrigation drain tubing - I cut the end at one of the outer rib, and worked it with a little bit of heat and soften it up. Clamped both ends and used a sleeve to couple the tubing to the end of the filter - I stuffed it through the drivers side area where one of the horns was and down on the bottom of the fender. Through the IAT sensor i can see 70* difference in temps, though the sensor itself is still heat soaking to 140, I can feel the difference in the power and the temp table needs tweaking. No signs of fatigue from heat yet and its been in the mid to high 80's this week. Pretty solid mod for under $12
Update: I finally got around to finding some reasonably priced, heat resistant 3.5" ID tubing that wasn't $500 for 20 ft. It actually came from home depot, Its labeled as 4" irrigation drain tubing - I cut the end at one of the outer rib, and worked it with a little bit of heat and soften it up. Clamped both ends and used a sleeve to couple the tubing to the end of the filter - I stuffed it through the drivers side area where one of the horns was and down on the bottom of the fender. Through the IAT sensor i can see 70* difference in temps, though the sensor itself is still heat soaking to 140, I can feel the difference in the power and the temp table needs tweaking. No signs of fatigue from heat yet and its been in the mid to high 80's this week. Pretty solid mod for under $12
Nice!! That's how I ran mine in post #4 when I ran a stock hood back in 2005. I wish I could do that with my setup but I'll never snake the hose around the shock tower.
I've got two hoods for this car. A 3" cowl, and a ram air-I hood. I'm torn between either mounting the filter on top of the miniram to suck air in through the cowl, or building a box to use the cold air intakes on the ram air hood.
I'm not convinced I like the way the ram air hood looks on a formula, but then again these cars were never sexy.
Can you link me to the bypass valve you used? I may order one today and ditch the DSM style flange. I think I have a 3" flange with a big hose nipple for the style you are using.
If it were me, i would be staying away from the filter on top of the intake, Heat rises, i never understood peoples mentality - UNLESS theres a isolated air box that sucks air from the back of the cowl, Then i can see that, but even then eeh. If i were you i would be looking to see if you can make a custom box to isolate the heat in the engine bay and suck air from the fender on the passengers side.
I forget what thread it was in but some guys were saying the bypass valve is too small - But after thinking about it, this valve, the PN transfers to the valve on vortec's website which is good to 6/7PSI, I dont have any problems with it. Works great, well built, and affordable. I used a 3" to 3" coupler with a 1" T on it. http://zzperformance.com/3800/turbo-...kt0b0lp2h4vuq6
If it were me, i would be staying away from the filter on top of the intake, Heat rises, i never understood peoples mentality - UNLESS theres a isolated air box that sucks air from the back of the cowl, Then i can see that, but even then eeh.
This is how Willie did his:
Originally Posted by 86CamaroDan
If i were you i would be looking to see if you can make a custom box to isolate the heat in the engine bay and suck air from the fender on the passengers side.
I forget what thread it was in but some guys were saying the bypass valve is too small - But after thinking about it, this valve, the PN transfers to the valve on vortec's website which is good to 6/7PSI, I dont have any problems with it. Works great, well built, and affordable. I used a 3" to 3" coupler with a 1" T on it. http://zzperformance.com/3800/turbo-...kt0b0lp2h4vuq6
Yeah I was thinking about that too. Just hard in that area with the blower motor and other things in the way.
Update: I finally got around to finding some reasonably priced, heat resistant 3.5" ID tubing that wasn't $500 for 20 ft. It actually came from home depot, Its labeled as 4" irrigation drain tubing - I cut the end at one of the outer rib, and worked it with a little bit of heat and soften it up. Clamped both ends and used a sleeve to couple the tubing to the end of the filter - I stuffed it through the drivers side area where one of the horns was and down on the bottom of the fender. Through the IAT sensor i can see 70* difference in temps, though the sensor itself is still heat soaking to 140, I can feel the difference in the power and the temp table needs tweaking. No signs of fatigue from heat yet and its been in the mid to high 80's this week. Pretty solid mod for under $12
just watch that filter for puddles when it rains and that setup looks awfully familiar lol
Ran the car on the rollers. Not quite where i want to be, but where i expected - Torn between cam and heads or 10 rib and intercooler.
Fred said i can fatten the tune down low and prob get a little more torque out of it, and lean out up top as its very rich http://vid113.photobucket.com/albums...pssewaxam8.mp4
I would suggest a set of heads and a NX274hr cam as well as some bigger fuel injectors(not sure what size your running at the moment}. Also I would swap out your chambered muffler for a straight through setup to decrease back pressure which will also give you a little more out of it as well...
Ran the car on the rollers. Not quite where i want to be, but where i expected - Torn between cam and heads or 10 rib and intercooler.
Fred said i can fatten the tune down low and prob get a little more torque out of it, and lean out up top as its very rich http://vid113.photobucket.com/albums...pssewaxam8.mp4
Hrmm. Did you run it at the track?
Seems very light. I had kinda a crappy combo and it made over 560hp at the crank.
I would suggest a set of heads and a NX274hr cam as well as some bigger fuel injectors(not sure what size your running at the moment}. Also I would swap out your chambered muffler for a straight through setup to decrease back pressure which will also give you a little more out of it as well...
His injectors are way too big for his combo as it is. (60#)
His L31 heads flow 239/160 @ .500 lift. Over .500 lift they actually flow less.
I ran Sportsman-II heads on my old 355, which flowed 234/148 @ .500 lift.
I don't know what cam he's running, I ran an SLP 51010 which is the same as the comp 503 cam - 224/230 .502/.510 on 112lsa. An awesome street/strip cam.
My combo was 9:1, and it made just over 560hp with the S-trim, no intercooler, and 24 degrees advance.
His heads have a smaller cross sectional area, but flow slightly better @ .500 lift. Assuming he has a similar cam, he should be making similar power. He's not even close.
Either his cam is waay too small, or something else is seriously wrong.
BTW my combo used 36# injectors, 55psi base (1:1 rise). 42's would have been more appropriate.
His injectors are way too big for his combo as it is. (60#)
His L31 heads flow 239/160 @ .500 lift. Over .500 lift they actually flow less.
I ran Sportsman-II heads on my old 355, which flowed 234/148 @ .500 lift.
I don't know what cam he's running, I ran an SLP 51010 which is the same as the comp 503 cam - 224/230 .502/.510 on 112lsa. An awesome street/strip cam.
My combo was 9:1, and it made just over 560hp with the S-trim, no intercooler, and 24 degrees advance.
His heads have a smaller cross sectional area, but flow slightly better @ .500 lift. Assuming he has a similar cam, he should be making similar power. He's not even close.
Either his cam is waay too small, or something else is seriously wrong.
BTW my combo used 36# injectors, 55psi base (1:1 rise). 42's would have been more appropriate.
-- Joe
Im running 60 lb injectors.
Joe, What blower pulleys were you running and was that 560 at the wheel or crank? im running a 6" Crank and a 3.33"blower - 5.5 PSI. Its a peanut cam, 212/222 duration and a .435/.460 lift 112.5 LSA. The only issue is i can run over a .480 cam because i run into spring bind and shashing the retainer on the valve seal.
I think the cam is the biggest brick in the road at this point. Im a little bit bummed, but as far as ive ever been into this engine was the intake swap, valve cover gaskets or a oil pan. Hard to be upset over that.
Last edited by 86CamaroDan; 11-21-2016 at 08:46 AM.
Im running 60 lb injectors.
Joe, What blower pulleys were you running and was that 560 at the wheel or crank? im running a 6" Crank and a 3.33"blower - 5.5 PSI. Its a peanut cam, 212/222 duration and a .435/.460 lift 112.5 LSA. The only issue is i can run over a .480 cam because i run into spring bind and shashing the retainer on the valve seal.
I think the cam is the biggest brick in the road at this point. Im a little bit bummed, but as far as ive ever been into this engine was the intake swap, valve cover gaskets or a oil pan. Hard to be upset over that.
I ran a 7" crank pulley if I recall. The stock diameter of a thirdgen serp crank pulley, and a 3.33 blower pulley. Made over 12psi. V1-S trim.
Yeah, that is a very small cam. You can machine the heads for more lift, they sell a tool for about $100 to will cut the guides down. But they don't flow more past .500 without port work.
I ran a 7" crank pulley if I recall. The stock diameter of a thirdgen serp crank pulley, and a 3.33 blower pulley. Made over 12psi. V1-S trim.
Yeah, that is a very small cam. You can machine the heads for more lift, they sell a tool for about $100 to will cut the guides down. But they don't flow more past .500 without port work.
-- Joe
Intresting, so hopefully a 3.125 should put me around 10. Just called a local machine shop and they said $48 for the machining. The only thing i question is that all those flow measurements are rated at a vacuum, Wouldnt boost normall flow more?
So i think the plan for the winter is LS6 springs, HR cam, double roller chain. Another plus im thinking is that if this long block lets go on me, for another $48 i can transfer everything over (aslong as nothing is damaged) which puts me at what my allowance is for my tax return.
Im thinking that untill i get a built bottom end that i know wont come appart, theres no use in buying $1500 in cylinder heads.
Intresting, so hopefully a 3.125 should put me around 10. Just called a local machine shop and they said $48 for the machining. The only thing i question is that all those flow measurements are rated at a vacuum, Wouldnt boost normall flow more?
So i think the plan for the winter is LS6 springs, HR cam, double roller chain. Another plus im thinking is that if this long block lets go on me, for another $48 i can transfer everything over (aslong as nothing is damaged) which puts me at what my allowance is for my tax return.
Im thinking that untill i get a built bottom end that i know wont come appart, theres no use in buying $1500 in cylinder heads.
That is the same cam I am running as well......works very well also...you won't be disappointed
05-27-2016, 06:39 PM
