Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I never had a 749 ecm

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, works on a '730 too. I had to re-read my own FAQ thread from 2003. The older I get, the more I forget.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...questions.html

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Idk if its the injectors or the hardware that controls them but everyone i know that runs new generation big injectors high z dont seem to have any problem getting stable low pulsewidth operation. You should be fine in something like fuel inj connection stuff in the 1000-1300 cc range or FID1000's. Idk how much power you need. 1300's were good to 1400 flywheel on race gas. The 1000cc should be good to 1000-1100 i would think

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

My 60s are probably overkill, they just have crap dead time.

I think the newer injectors you are using have better solenoids that respond faster. That would be my guess.

My blower could make 1,000 hp with my heads + cam, but my 2bolt main block will probably explode. I don't plan on pushing it more than 600hp.. Even that might be dumb on my part, but if it explodes I can build something else. Shoulda used a SHP block.

Any updates on your build?

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

No updates

Had other projects to do first

On side note: my siemens 80's idled around 0.95-0.98 base pulse width at 14.6 air fuel

Z69

You mentioned hurricane's on YB was why I asked. That's what changed my mind to go w/them vs S366's. I'll just get TC72's with a bigger comp cover.
Trying to buy once where possible.

ATI has a 32-1? damper setup that Nelson Racing runs on his stuff.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah i had tc72's basically but prior to that i had masterpower 70's and had both .68 and .96 housings. Then bought a on 3 t70 for my 305 car and used the .96 then .68

Sold everything but the .68's

I tell ya what, the s369 billet turbo for 1000$ is likely best thing out for a high hp twin v8. Hell theres gtr's making 1700 whp with them. Flow 100-105 lbs min each

Z69

I looked at those...I'd need an LSX block for them. I don't need the temptation.
Still debating on filled block and pyramid rings for phase 2.
Regular TC72 is about the limit of a stock block and smaller and lighter than S300 series.
-and $750ish each.
I need to start saving for the kids college fund next year so a big parts build can't be done. $8K easy in parts for short block.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Suggest they join the military. Not only will college be paid for, but the military pays you while you go to school.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Those tc's are great turbos and the warranty is awesome

Two of them will def pop 4bolt ls1 heads off

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Thats a win/ win all the way around.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I got my holley from moore racecraft. I haven't got into this yet with the 66lbs inj. But he basically told me if I wanted I could put 120s on it and it would idle like stock. High impedance injectors have a faster response due to the the higher current...."kicking" the needle off the seat. They're also better in boosted applications where fuel pressure is higher and needs the added help against the fuel pressure.

Z69

I was in for 6yrs.
One boy might sign up . The other probably not.

Z69

High Z's are lower current. You've got it backwards.
Sequential injection and more R&D time by the OEM's is why they idle better with big Hi Z injectors now.

Z69

I keep flipping between 366xe and tc.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

just thought i would add onto this-
yes, low impedence will have more current flow and in turn a stronger, faster acting motor to control the pintle. in theory, they should be able to idle better than a same sized high impedence injector.
-but your pcm must be able to handle the current, and injectors in general are better today than they were 30 years ago.... so todays large high impedence injectors work pretty dang good.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Charlie has twin 366's on his sbe 5.3 and been 8.8's i think. On a mild 60'. Car has .40's in it i bet with the trap speed. 27 psi i think its been

Def 1200 whp worth of turbo on those small cubes

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I'd be a bit weary about running this thing with a current MS. It seems like way too often I'm running into weirdnesses, bugs... and most of it appears to be with the code and with tuner studio (fixable, but it seems impossible to get traction with getting it fixed when you run into it). I've found work arounds for most of it but have also been frustrated with finding a work around and then a year or so later something breaks because whatever was finally fixed and it wasn't documented for some reason.

Do you have any thoughts what you're going to go to with the trans?

To me if this is really a street car making that kind of power and running e85 dual injector banks seem like a no brainer. Run around on something more "normal" when just driving and then have something big mounted higher up for when you actually use the power (and take advantage of some of the charge cooling and mixing from injecting it higher up in a good carb style intake).

I've been thinking similar things with my converted single plane (same packaging issues further up the runners). I don't have the idle control that I would like. In my case it's not about your killer power production, and 99% of people would be happy with the idle I have, but instead since I have crazy ideas of tuning this thing for efficiency I just don't have the tuning granularity down low that I want, and I'm not sure that even if I went to sequential I would get it.

Because of packaging I'm thinking of making an adapter plate that mounts in between my elbow and my intake and mounting 4-8 large injectors in that and then something more normal down in the bungs at the end of the runners. 4 or 6 injectors would be easy, 8 would probably mean I'd need them on 3 or 4 sides of the spacer and would make plumbing complicated.

My 800cc EV14's were fairly easy to get to idle at 1.5-1.6ms pulsewidths, but again they're just not that controllable down there, not only is the economy tuning sketchy, but when you get something just slightly wrong it's easy to flood the engine starting it and I'm running a little dinky battery in a street car that doesn't give me much extra time cranking so I can quickly find myself wondering if I'm going to get myself stuck...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Ms3 pro is or seems to be a separate system to the other ms stuff. Theres quite a few big power cars using it now

I do like the simplicity of holley hp but may need add ons to do logging of various parameters. Its alot to think about, the dominator would be great but it is expensive. At this level everything is.

No idea on the trans yet. Th400 but undecided whos gonna build it

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I like MS, but I also work as a software engineer, I have over 18 years in R&D, and a minor in EE. I'd use it over most anything (and I do), however you really need to know the system. It's not like a stock ECU that's 90% setup for you, or a Holley that makes a number of decisions based on you inputs to adjust related components.

There has been more than one situation where I didn't get an answer to a question, or the answer didn't seem to be consistent with my experience so I had to dive into the source code to actually see how the function worked. Tunerstudio is getting better about showing you the logical conditions, but still.

A lot of the guys making big HP on MS3/MS3pro are also engineers and do this as a hobby.

One of the biggest problems with the whole MS thing is starter calibrations. People get very frustrated because there is an overwhelming number of things you need to configure.

Good luck with the build.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

From what i seen, it doesnt appear to be anything like how you describe. Its a box thats 100% done. Nothing to set up.
Software wise i do not know but pretty sure its also improved from previous megasquirts.

I have been talking to guys who use it and it doesnt seem to bad. But i need to continue looking into it.

Good thing is i can figure out justabout anything given enough time. Lol

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'm talking about the software. It's a plug and play ECU, yes, and the hardware is quite superior to the MS2.

You will need to configure our ignition trigger, ve table, AFR target table, cold enrichment, spark map, idle settings (and no, i don't just mean target idle speed), decide which AE algorithm to use (they are very complex), air temperature related adjustments, etc.

It's not a huge deal, but it isn't a Holley that asks you 5 questions and then starts.


The software is the same, ms3extra. They are not authorized to make changes to the code and distribute those changes. The software licensing is fairly strict.

It's a fantastic system, I'm just saying it's not as easy as the Holley stuff. I'm sure you will be successful with it, you just need to be more committed.
It has a lot of functionality that you are going to need, like staged injection, table switching, etc.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Setting up parameters shouldnt be to bad, it needs to be done with any system as i plan to use ls1 style smart coils and a 60-2 crank trigger. It should light it off. We shall see.

Thats a long way off. Hope to get motor plates in soon and start hotside planning. May order 1 turbo and plan the pipe route

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You've got all winter.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its kinda in. Trimmed up the plate some more after this pic. And offset motor some more to pass side to make room for the driver side header. It tight in there but i have a plan. Should be very interesting to see how this works out

Jay_rich

iTrader: (4)

Looking great as always man, cant wait to see some numbers!

Jay

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

that's a funny looking 5.3!

ZZ3Astro

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Bottom end assembled. Almost time to start a build thread for this lol

skinny z

Just re-read this thread and no mention of C.I.D....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lol its a 555. Sig now kinda gives away the plan

89FormulaLS

what are your goals? 7 seconds?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Easy 7 sec with streetability and reliability. Mainly tho is 2000 hp. We'll see what it can do. Have enough turbo and fuel to make 2300-2500 give or take

skinny z

!!
I wonder. Would that be enough to set some class record at Bonneville or similar? Or standing mile? Certainly entry into the 200 MPH (+) club. Then you could ALL of that power.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I have no idea but its not built for that kinda abuse. I wouldnt mind doing a half mile or mile event... but i dont have the gearing for that really. I would need a gear vendors od unit. I am gearing the car for 200 mph capability at max rpm

skinny z

True enough. I hadn't factored the gearing in: Vis-à-vis, drag racing vs land speed or standing mile for that matter. Come to think of it, does anyone here participate in that kind of sport? Plenty of road racers, Auto-X and drag racing but I can't recall seeing an open road or mile event participant. I certainly am contemplating that.

That said, it's plain to see now that you're targeting a 200 MPH trap speed!
And reviewing the Drag Week class winners, it seems that a GV isn't a bad idea.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its gonna take alot to go 200 traps but would be cool. I think i'll end up closer to 190 cuz the car is so heavy.

There was a guy here that did texas roll race events with a turbo sbf powered firebird. Nasty car, also near 2000 hp capable

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Kinda excited to see this build. Who's doing the chassis certification ?

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thats gonna be a while before that gets done. No funds for this. I have two buddies that do good cage work and likely one of them will get it when time comes. Then again i might only do a 10-12 pt for 8.50 legal cuz i am not crazy excited about the funny car cage and X brace door bars. Very difficult to get in and out and also to see anything. Bars around the head kinda make me nervous too

1987thirdgen

How's your progress going? Anything to share?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Nothing i want to share yet

antman89iroc

Top Secret! Lol.
You always do something interesting, J.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

antman89iroc

Oh I get it... PT/NT huh?