941camarokid

anyone know if there are any good bolt in roll cages out there for camaros,i really like the tiger cage but no ones knows if the second gen camaro cage will fit a 3rd gen,if anyone knows pleae let me know

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

these guys have the only complete "bolt in" kits that i know of, but they are for 4th gens. Im sure they would be close, but will most likely need some modification to get into a 3rd gen

why do you want a cage? is the car running fast enough to need one? or is it just for looks? the rear seat is useless with a cage.

AlkyIROC

Any roll cage/bar can be bolted in. The 6"x6"x1/8" plates which are normally welded to the floor can be bolted to the floor as long as there's an identical plate under the floor. The downside is that there's very little floor area where a plate can sit on top and under a piece of floor sheet metal.

A kit that has all the tubes bolted together is strictly for show. It's also probably the wrong diameter and tube thickness to pass a tech inspection or offer any sort of protection.

A roll bar is required at 11.49 and quicker in the 1/4 mile or 13.99 for convertibles. If you're not going that fast, you don't need one. If you are going that fast, you'll install a weld in kit to pass a tech inspection. At 9.99 or 10.99 for convertibles, a full cage is required. A full cage in a street car gets annoying quickly even though you can install swing out door bars and run as quick as 8.50 in the 1/4. As mentioned above, installing any kind of roll cage/bar makes the rear seat inaccessible.

I don't even think a bolt in kit will pass an autocross tech.

Nothing designed for a second gen will work on a third gen without a lot of modifications. The body shape is completely different.

941camarokid

thanks for your replies,i am not looking for a full cage mainly just the main hoop,door bars (preferably the ones that run the rocker panels) and a removable cross bar like the tiger cage has,yes it is mostly for show,and i am aware that a bolt in kit probably would not offer protection in a crash,i am mainly just trying to stiffen the body/chassis,my camaro runs mid to low 11's on pump gas,race fuel runs high 10's,and i do not want to weld in a cage,agine not looking for protection,i do not plan to roll or crash my camaro,mostly just going for show and extra chassis stiffness,is there anyone that makes a kit like the air ride tiger cage for the 4th gen camaro/firebird?

thanks agine

AlkyIROC

The best thing you can do to stiffen the body is to install some sub frame connectors. I doubt a bolt in roll bar will do much to stiffen the body.

941camarokid

thanks alkyiroc i know sub frame connecters will help i plan on using those as well i asked some of my local shops and they said that a bolt in cage would provide some stiffness,plus i like the look of a cage but not full race legal,im looking for something like the tiger cage for 2nd gen camaros with the street style door bars,i dont care if its track legal or not i dont do autocross and my local drag strip doesnt care if you have a cage or not,i just really dont want to weld a cage in,i dont like the look and i want to beable to remove it if i have to with out trashing the floor or anything,i've seen the wolfe cage for 4th gens put in a 3rd gen but the person that did it didnt put any details would this be possible with out modifying the cage or my interior?

AlkyIROC

TGO will give lots of good advice to many questions asked. Since you're dead set on what you already want to do, you shouldn't be asking for, then ignoring the advice given.

You wanted to know about bolt in roll bars for a third gen. If you haven't already found a vendor, there's probably a good reason they're hard to find. Nobody wants them because they're not worth the money to buy or build. Anybody who "wants" a roll bar in their street car will invest in a proper roll bar.

941camarokid

hay alkyiroc cool your jets,i did not ignore the advice i was given,i was given advice to get a weld in cage,all i said is that is not what i am looking for,i just wanted to know if anyone has tried retro fitting one from a second or 4th gen into a 3rd or if anyone knew of a someone that makes one that can be retrofitted,i am aware that no one wants a bolt in cage in a 3rd gen because street applications for a 3rd gen camaro bolt in cage are not popular,people seem to only want a weld in for their 3rd gen drag cars,i am looking for a bolt in because mine is a daily driver as well as a strip car,weld in cant be removed easy incase i decide to sell the car or restore it to factory,so dont snap at me for telling you your not helping,you seem to only have info on weld in cages,i wish to know about bolt in retrofitting

AlkyIROC

Hey, do whatever you want. With enough time and money, any sort of fabrication or modifications can be done. Just because someone else hasn't done it doesn't mean it can't be done. Do a write up when it's complete so others can see what you've done.

941camarokid

thanks alkyiroc and i'll be sure to wright up of it when even i get done

janson327

Sub Frame Connectors will be your best bet, along with new LCAs and Panhard Rod and even a torque arm if you really go nuts. The stiffness increase in a street track ride by these parts is noticable and all bolt in.

Its like going from being a 70 year old man to a 20 year old again lol.

941camarokid

lol thanks janson like the comparison by the way would of never thought of that,but yeah i know about sub fame,torque arm and all that,im going to totaly re-build the suspension with mostly all crome moly parts,and almost all adjustable,i only want the bolt in roll cage for a little extra stiffness,plus i think they look really cool

codyhoward89cam

well i want to know what you find because i saw the tiger cage like a year ago and i want one to so when you find one tell me whats up with it

941camarokid

Hey Cody so far the tiger cage has been the best one I've found...unfortunately the guys over at ride tech don't think there is a high enough demand to bother producing a tiger cage for our cars so we probably will never see a mass produced 3rd gen tiger cage...I did how ever a while back find pictures of a guy that put a 4th gen bolt in cage into a 3rd gen..it looked pretty sweet and fit really well,there was no write up on what he did so I don't know if he had to modify it or not

profootbrake2

Here are some bolt in rool cages.
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/perf...ion/Roll_Cages

89_RS

1MeanZ made a great point about a roll cage in a daily driver that AlkyIROC hasn't pointed out. While cages are a tech requirement any cage, be it a show or real cage, is a hazard to the daily driver. Low speed impacts with roll cages installed in DD and the driver not wearing full race safety gear have lead to severe head injuries and or death.

Please, do take this seriously and not put your life at risk for something that just looks cool. If its not needed for tech, don't install it.

startat2

iTrader: (2)

QFT. You'd be smart to take Alky's and everyone elses advice and dont install one unless you need one. SFC's will help stiffen you up if thats what you want. As far as looking cool, its only cool if you need it, parachutes would look funny on a beat up toyota camry....

Gumby

Before I did SFC

I found when I had the car gutted I fully welded all the sheet metal, the cheesy spot welds used at the factory suck. It made the car very stiff.

SFC just finished it off right.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...rs-solved.html

And I still want the cop roll bar for mine, useful or not.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...e-4-point.html

Project-RS

iTrader: (1)

i had a friend with a 2nd gen (race car) that had a low impact without a helmet and needed 15 staples in his head. i went with sub frame connectors and my car should run mid to high 12's

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Anyone that knows what a correctly welded/built/installed/routed roll bar looks like, just laughs at poser bolt in cages, at least I do. Everytime I see a half-assed attempt at roll protection it speaks volumes to me about the knowledge of the owner. "fake" roll bars only lighten your wallet, add weight to the car, get in the way of street function and in many cases are extremely dangerous because of their proximity to the driver. What you think looks cool, just makes you look like a bozo to someone who knows what a REAL cage is about.

profootbrake2

Just for the record i don't think bolt in cages are a good idea my cage is a fully welded 12 point from s and w. But others can do what they want to.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

enof of the gess work. and none fact info..

when the right thickness of wall tube is used.

FACT:bolt in bars will pass tech (unmoded fire wall/unibody cars)
seems NHRA/IHRA thinks its OK...LOL

up to a 6 point good to low 10 sec times.(9.99 if i recall..but you can look it up)
this is a roll bar by the way..not a cage..

6x6 plates are easy to install / made to fit. and bolt in.

and if you like it can be removed/ uninstalled at any time.

check out autopower. they make alot of bolt in kits. that can also be welded in also..
AND if you up grade
the best side bars are made by S&W (made to fit the stock armrest)
and using a swing out side bar. its still all removable

if you want to bolt one in.. do it. nothing wrong with doing it..
you want to drive it on the street. thats ok to. guys who say its unsafe.
any more unsafe with getting hit by a 5000lb SUV! who you kidding..lol
its not going to make a diff...you going to go under the SUV any way.
alot of car makers installed ROLL bars also.(Short list) kia sportage/jeep/even chevy and the camaro.
but they dont seem to remember that..and thats ok..

to many times do i read one sided. my way hiway info given...
whats nexed.. how to set up your pinon angle like a semi truck...lol
or the bummbledick gord head yammering about other guys has pozers
that would be like me saying. if your not running mid 10s with your DD car.
keep it parked in your drive way...lol but i for one dont...
but then they dont know the diff of a role bar or cage any way
.
IF you want one..buy it
have fun.. and enjoy it..cuss its ok
and yes it looks cool.and the chicks dig it.

edit to add:
some guys use rusty water pipe to make SFC..lol and then talk sh$% on how others want to mod there cars..lol
the same Guys think there hack job back yard weld togethers are cutting edge....
there is a cool thing about doing it your self..then theres the cheap looking junk yard do it there self...
YA KNOW Who im talking to..

so spend the money.. buy the right parts. and stop with the old rusty pipe for car parts...it.s not cutting edge!!
If you cant Make 6X6 1/8" PLATES TO fit your floor..take up another hobby!

your Welcom Then!

spurgeon76

This is a link to Wolf Race Craft's bolt in roll bars. They have 4, 5 and 6 point ones.

http://www.wolferacecraft.com/Search...?CategoryID=68

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

At a bare minimum, you've got to keep the bars away from your head. DO whatever you want but at least don't risk the safety of yourself or your passengers. Many sanctioning bodies require a minimum of 6" from your head, I like to see a good bit more than that in a non-helmeted head on the street.

hotrodln

I use a full cage made by Autopower...they are in CA somewhere...really stiffened up the car......i also added subframe connectors that i welded plates on so i could bolt throught the bottom of the roll cage at 4 points.....my cage is padded....i'm sure it could still cause an injury if i hit it without the helmet on, but i wear the seatbelts too....my setup is more for open track days than DD..........

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Alrighty then

89_RS

I can tell you've never been in a wreck before. I was in a low speed side impact wreck (less than 10mph) 2yrs ago in my Camaro and even that was a fast enough hit that I hit my head & upper body on the steering wheel. I was hit in the side just in front of the left front wheel. I can just about guarantee that if I had one of these "chick's-dig-it" roll bars or cages that I'd be unable to do anything when the lady's were present other than drool.

The brain is wrapped in a solid shell of bone for a reason, but even the thickest skulls only can take so much and a roll bar at 3mph is plenty enough to make you drool in a wheel chair for the rest of your life.

Gumby

Only a goof would install a bar, hoop or cage and keep the stock shoulder belts.

You need atleast a 4 belt, or a 5 belt nut crusher. So you can't move in any direction to hit anything.

92 BBC Z

Hell, if some people want to bolt-in for 'cool points', then use aluminium tubing and save the weight.lol.

89_RS

The point that several of us have been making so far is that people who install a roll bar in a DD don't wear the race safety gear that keeps you from being an 8lb water head after a wreck on the street.

Also, in addition to that 4, 5, 6, or 7 point harness, you need a helmet at the least for a DD to not have the 8lb water head issues and a HANS device would be highly recommended.

Gumby

some of the larger sized zinc plated conduit would look nice, just don't breathe while welding. [ive actualy use it to build new awnings for the house, light and strong.]

Patrick Day

You should do what you want with your car .
Don't let these nay sayers convince you not to.
Its your car. Build it your way.
And the web site for the Autopower industries.to find the cage or roll bar you want is www.autopowerindustries.com.
They have many to choose from , From bolt in to weld in

92 BBC Z

How about painted PVC pipe. I can smell the pipe dope from here.lol.

87 player bird

Go to playerschallengeseries.ca take a look at the cage pics, the company stilll makes the cage from the series 25 years ago. they were bolt in and looked great. I have one in a box. 1250$ to have them make you 1 from the origonal jiggs. If you like it, p.m me and I'll forward their contact info to you. They were designed for a showroom stock series, so they will bolt right in with no mods.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

When you do something to become a hazard to your passengers or other drivers, the "do what you want with your car" freedom ends

tricky1

iTrader: (1)

You don't really need a cage to go 12 seconds. Also, I don't have subframe connectors and have went as fast as 11.65 and always goes 12 flat or better without any issues. Been doing it for years.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Are the requirements for T-tops the same as hardtops or convertibles? And if I ran an 11 second pass at a dragstrip in flat ol Illinois and then went to a high elevation strip and did 12, would you still need one? Is there a particular speed that a cross bar is needed at?

Lonnie P

T-tops are the same requirements as a hard top.

As far as a cross bar.... no cross bar or a removable one is not NHRA legal.
Don't waste your time with any bars that have this piece removable, unles you are buying a decoration.

Removable/swing-out door bars are allowed into the 8sec range... not sure of the exact numbers as I have not read the rulebook in a few years.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Im a little confused. I am interested in a cross bar added to a four point roll cage for the purpose of installing a four point harness for autoX. The engine I am building now MAY do the time requirements for one anyway. Are you saying a cross bar is not allowed for a NHRA approved track?

project89

iTrader: (1)

if the crossbar bolts in or is removable in anyway it is NOT nhra legal

the crossbar must be permantly welded into place to be nhra legal

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

^A removable cross bar is not nhra legal.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Ok, understood. I will have to mock up where the cage would be with those floaty pool noodles. Where can I find the rules with angles and diameters and thicknesses for all of this?

project89

iTrader: (1)

tibo i dont know what kind of fab skills u have , but even if u have the required skills , i still recomend that ppl find a shop who builds cages, and chassis and has them nhra certified in house , and get them to do the cage install

im all for diy and as most know im a huge diy'er but a cage is something i always recommend to have professionally done

Copperhead

Does anyone have pics of the Autopower cages? I'd like to see how they fit and finish.

I have installed a few of the Player's cages and they fit very well. There are different versions, all period correct from 87 to 92 as they advanced in added safety bars (X braces, front crossbars etc.) They all needed to be notched into the dashboard (AFAIK) to allow the driver to still see the rearview mirrors. Side bars are built to clear the armrests. I think you have the option of mild steel or DOM tubing for real track use. If they were good enough for real roadracing against 3000lb cars that were all out to win, they're good enough for 90% of us now. Not sure about NHRA certification, though.

SlickTrackGod

You'll have much better luck using ABS black pipe ad angle fitings from your local hardware store to mock up a custom cage. You can disassemble it and reassemble it outside the car to mimic it in steel.

I took a different aproach for a full cage in a daily driver street car. It's not a 3rd gen though, but here was my outlook.

You see those flatbotton race boats where they have a complete removable canopy in the event of a crash? the entire cockpit comes off. Well with that concept, I have an 89 chevy truck I built years ago as a DD and put in a full cage that I plated and welded to the cab- however, I never breached the cab and welded it to the frame. The cab (entire front half of the truck) has 6 bolts that hold it to the frame. I have seen accidents with these trucks where those bolts shear and the cab sits cockeyed on the frame or almost even comes off- so I stayed with that though. Build the cage to protect the occupants inside the cab, and make the cage stay witht he cab if the accident is bad enoguh and the cab is sheared off the frame. I also have 4point harnesses on all three racing seats inside the cab and the sholderbelts are looped through the racing seat shoulder holes and then back down a little to the cross support of the cage 10" under the shoulders. This prevents me from hitting the overhead bar and the side bar goes down between the headreast and the side plastic so I could never make contact with it. I made my own crash capsule

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Although it's not an idea I would probably go with in my vehicle, I would be interested to see a picture of it. And all three racing seats?

SlickTrackGod

.

SlickTrackGod

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BlutUndSieg

Not sure about the quality or ease but I stumbled across this somewhere in the depths of the internet. Its a ten point for third gens and you can choose chromoly, dom, or ews for materials. I have been entertaining the same idea for my third gen.
http://www.swracecars.com/store/1982...4=11-1513.aspx

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

bolt in.swing out side bars. are NHRA ok. and remember with a good 5 point. installed right.(cross bar) you will stay in your seat. my car is not a DD but I do drive it on the street. just like any other 10 sec street car...