Sporty-X

Hello,

i'm currently on a new project.

My car is a 85 Camaro berlinetta that started as a drag racing project and moved to a drift car project (many will not understand but the track we were expecting in our country will now not been built and instead we have a drift competition).

So ... after (trying to) drift with my 4th gen camaro, I'm now planning to finish my 3rd gen project and make it a drift car.

I need advice on many things and drifiting is something i'm learning from this year only.

What is already done :

- i kept only the body of the car. every rust part has been repaired, the the body has been paint
- subframe connectors welded (chrome moly)
- 8-point roll bar welded (chrome moly)
- chrome moly K-member + A-arms
- sphon sway bars
- Koni on every corner + coil over in front
- adjustable LCA
- adjustable panhard bar
- adjustable torque arm
- stock rear springs
- Strange 12- bolts with 3.42 + posi
- Corvette Z06 front brakes
- LT1 - 4th gen rear brakes
- stock rack and pinion
- ORECA seats + 5 points harness
- 4th gen steering column
- battery tray behind passenger seat
- fiberglass Hood
- hydraulic e-brake

Engine and drive train : ... not really adequate BBC + 10-71 and TH400. Will see about these parts later.

My questions are on the body :

- what are your advices on setting the front end geometry ?
- is there a need in lowering the car ?
- is there a need to make a coilover conversion at the rear ?
- best supplier for fiberglass doors and lexan Windows ?

Would love any advice about this.

Also, i have a friend who drift with an automatic 4th gen (my 4th gen is converted to manual 6) : is an automatic driftable ? or is it a real pain ?

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

I was about to post something negative, but instead I'll just be curious if anyone actual puts any thought into this. Good luck with your project.

myroc86

Interesting build you have here man, dont see too many camaros or domestic "muscle" cars on a drift course. The drift team that rents a shop across from where I work runs all 240's. Looking at them they are slammed to the ground and have
massive negative camber lol. I have honestly never seen a automatic drift car but never hurts to give it a shot!


Posted from Thirdgen.org App for Android

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I'm not going to be much help setting this up (I can guess what will work but never done it), but have questions:

I'm curious, what country?

How does this work? Any details?

That could be making a ton of power, but I'd worry about keeping it cool/not spraying it's internals all over the track and wouldn't visibility be an issue with that sticking through the hood?

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

BBC seems like alot of unnecessary weight esp. for drifting? Wouldn't that understeer (unless ofcourse you mash the throttle)?

Sporty-X

Any advice is welcome, i don't care getting negative thoughs about what has already been done, as this car was originaly started for drag racing use. It is always difficult to change a project trying to re-use things you already put big money in

country : New Caledonia : little island between Australia and New Zealand. many US troups here during WW2

hydraulic e-brake : just adapting some drift e-brake you find everywhere on e-bay. Right now, i dont use any on my 4th gen but every other people use it for short turns. It is connected to rear brake plumbing.

Engine : i spent a lot of time and money building the engine so i will try to use it despite the weight of it. I will ultimatly move the engine position backwards as possible

transmission : fact is i have a friend who entered the drift events with a 4th gen with a TH400 and 4.56 rear end and he is performing quite well. On my side, i beleive it will be very tricky to use it in my car but same ... i will try it and see. The trans has been build by Jacks performance. It is a stage 3 + transbrake ($$$$ again).

If engine + trans really not adequate i can move them in the 4th gen and take my Golen 383 + M6 for the 3rd gen

About keeping the engine cool : i plan not using too much boost + i have contact with Aussie desert Cooler in Australia for a custom radiator. they make some for burn out competition with similar set up so i'm not too worried about this. They seems confident about it too

Sporty-X

just for information, i have already a lot of understeer problems with my set up on the 4th gen :

- engine : LT1 - golen 383 + LE2 heads
- transmission : M6
- rear end Strange 12- bolts with 3.90
- 250 nitrous shot (Nitrous outlet set-up) --> not for drifting
- body : SFC + LCA relocation + adj. TA + Panhard bar + Bilstein HD shocks
- weight reduction = no AC, heater, ABS, fan, ...

Sporty-X

Engine and car

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...o-project.html

Here is a link for one of the better known drifters on this board. I know there was another post out there done by someone that was not part of the thirdgen.org board, but was building a drift car for someone. His post was very extensive with the modifications he did to his spindles etc. to get more steering angle.

T/Aperformance

After reading what your putting into your car, It has me thinking is the drift racing you're talking about D1 drifting where you are competing with another drift car. Or is this more of the doing donuts spinning the tires making smoke type of drifting.

Sporty-X

Thx for answers. We had a time we had some drag racing events on closed roads and our association was promoting this to have some real track.
During the last years, for political reasons the closed roads drag racing events ended and people fighting to have a track built got a bit tired of fighting alone, so they merge with another association who promote drifting, in order to have a drift pad build.
For now, these people use their car in Australia and New Zealand contest. In New Caledonia, for now, we are still promoting this sports in all the place we got a legal authorization for this and so every event is organized regarding the place that can be found. We don't have any place right now comfortable enough for drifting 2 cars together.
The only big car association still really alive here is rally championship but we would love some sports less expensive for the cars enthusiast. On my side, I always wanted a drag racing track but right now I will simply be happy use the cars I've built on anything legal I can compete in and that's why I entered this drift thing

Sporty-X

Anyone here have fiberglass doors for sale ? If not where to buy some for a good price ?

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

Front geometry- I'd run .75 inch extended balljoints and a very stiff spring. The extended balljoints will drop the car .75 inches, and then I'd adjust the coilovers down until the a-arms are either level or point very slightly up from the K-member to the spindle (like this when looking at the car from the front except far far far less angle \ -- / ) You don't want the angle of the a-arm to be too extreme because that means your roll center is in the dirt and you'll probably be hitting the bump stops. About a 25.5-26" front fender height (ground to fender lip) is generally accepted as decent.

Lowering the car is a matter of preference- I think Zach Catlin (sketchyz28)'s car is at or around stock height, but z28evans' car is slammed. A lowered car has a lower center of gravity which is good for handling, but if you go too low you'll have positive camber gain and a large distance between the center of gravity and roll center which is bad for handling. All McPherson strut cars suffer from this, not just thirdgens. (Yes, this includes ae86's, fc RX7's, MR2's, 240sx'es, foxbody Mustangs, and Z cars too)

Coilovers in the rear are an option, so are the Allstar weight jacks or just simply stiff aftermarket springs. Doesn't matter too much, as long as the rear spring rates complement the front. Other than chassis reinforcement, matching springs and shocks/ struts is the most major part of your suspension setup. You've got the shocks/ struts part done with the Konis, which are the best you can get for the money. Coilovers aren't often run on these cars unfortunately, but maybe one of the few members running them could chime in with some good spring rate numbers. If not, Spohn or Sam Strano could probably point you in the right direction if you give them a ring.

Fiberglass doors and lexan windows- if no one chimes in, you could post up on FRRAX.com or try to find a drag racer who would run that sort of thing. Other than a couple of dedicated track cars and the drag racing guys, most on this forum drive their cars on the street and don't run such things. Definitely a good idea on a purpose built car with a cage that won't see street driving though.


Automatics are driftable but they're more difficult- you can't do clutch kicks and the torque converter makes the connection between your right foot and the rear of the car less direct. They also don't like heat which is bad since a lot of heat is generated when running at high rpms and going sideways. z28evans' El Camino is automatic and he did very well drifting it, even in tandem events, but the majority of drift cars are manual, and for good reason.

Engine wise- I'd say a BBC is a resounding no. Waaaay too heavy in a little thirdgen for good handling. You could theoretically drift it, but it will have a steep learning curve and take a lot of adjusting to get the car balanced. Even then, it's going to be really heavy which isn't something you want if you want the car to transition quickly and gracefully. An aluminum headed SBC with lightweight accessories, set up for mid to high RPM usage, positioned as far back as possible, with at least 300 hp should be adequate, as would an LS1 which would essentially accomplish the same thing- lightweight, reliable, high RPM 300-400 hp engine.

And another thing- you put "stock rack and pinion". These cars had recirculating ball type steering from the factory. Is that what you meant? I've heard that rack and pinion setups in thirdgens sacrifice a lot of steering angle which is extremely critical in a drift car. Assuming that you meant recirculating ball, you're going to want a steering box out of a Monte Carlo SS since it will give more angle than a factory box, as well as wheel spacers so that the wheels rub less at full lock. If you really want to go all out, you could have your spindles modified and the a-arms extended out to get as much angle as the Nissan guys. Other than weight and a wet noodle chassis, this is the thirdgen's biggest design flaw for drifting- not enough steering angle.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Coilovers are a bad idea on these cars because the strut towers are very thin sheet metal, although I don't think anyone's ever had them punch through and I don't think they would unless they were severely rusted anyway..

Weight jacks would be a better solution to get the right height and set corner weight. I have stock MOOG IROC springs (the rears are trimmed 3/4 of a coil) and HOWE 0.75" extended Ball joints but will be getting weight jacks to equal out the car and bring it a bit lower (especially at the rear).

I always thought the a-arm angle should be like this: / -- \ rather than this: \ -- /

(meaning the bushings are either level or slightly higher than the ball joint because when you use lowering springs it makes the bushings lower than the ball joint thus lowering the roll center further in relation to the CG (more than before so handling actually suffers unless much stiffer springs are used in which case affects ride quality on the street).

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

I went with weight jacks for the same reasons and I'd normally recommend them, but the OP said that he already has coilovers. The few that do run them seem to do so successfully, but I would be wary of the thin strut mounts and possibly reinforce them if I were to run them.

And you are totally correct on the a-arm angle, for a good handling street or road course car. On a drift car you want to run massive amounts of caster and camber so that the wheel recenters coming out of a slide, and you want the car extremely stiff to keep weight transfer at a more manageable leve and make the car very responsive, so you can get away with running the car pretty low.

Since there are no Maximum Motorsports Mustang style k members with adjustable a-arm mounts and there isn't a good drop spindle on the market right now, most moderately low thirdgens (26" and down) without extended ball joints will have the arms level or slightly below level. This isn't theoretically optimal but I doubt it is hurting a whole lot, at least enough for the average driver to be able to tell a difference.
That "stance nation illest slammedontheground 2dope4me" isht is a different story though...

Sporty-X

Glad to have your opinion. I need to look at everything closely

About the coilover set-up, I got it from "hawk third gen". i don't think the strut tower would be a problem as the coilover package include some reinforced plates for the strut tower. The main problem is the spring having interference in the upper hole of the tower which give you only limited positions with caster and camber.

Sporty-X

Just put the engine and transmission inside the car today. Finally i've put too many money in not to try them. I hope it will at least make the show. The blower pulley is just 10mm over the front sway bar so I need to move it lower with some spacers. the front spring are rated at 350 and seems to support well the engine weight . I Wonder what spring rate to put at the rear. Also i Wonder if the change to a STRANGE 12-bolts didn't affect the rear height as the car seems high in the rear.

I can post more pics if people wants it

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

The reinforcement plate isn't going to add structural rigidity to the strut tower beyond just the surface it reinforces. We are talking about deformations of the strut towers relative to each other and relative to the suspension mounting points, not the actual mounting surface itself. Although that is also a serious concern, the reinforcement plates do keep the struts/coilovers from just punching through the top. Actual structural integrity of the frame geometry in cornering is a whole nother story. But I think with drifting it wont matter so much. You're not putting tons of lateral g-loads into the strut towers the way you would with an autocross car.

Sporty-X

On saturday, there is another competition. I am supposed to do it with my 1996 Camaro as the 3rd gen is not ready. I though upgrading the PS pump with an oil cooler and didn't find another PS pump in emergency except a billet specialities Saginaw type 3 (through summit). Only got bad news : the billet PS pump has a different pulley axle size and we had to make a ring between them. Finally the pump has been broken during assembly ... Now the hoses don't have enough clamp pressure where the stock hoses have been extended ... It is really disappointing seeing everything's going bad at the last moments.

Sporty-X

Have done another contest with the 96 Camaro and it has been ok. I need to take time on the 85 to finish it. Anyone has some suggestions on springs rate on the car and also let me know how much it would be interesting lowering the car

mmadden55

Been awhile so I wonder how you are coming with this car?

Sporty-X

Hi,

still using the 4th gen for drift. Several changes since then to fight an understeering problem :

- remove front sway bar,
- remove rear LCA relocating brackets
- reduce pinion angle
- add drag bags at rear
- add some brackets for double brake system at rear (normal + hydraulic handbrake)
- ...

there is a contest next week. I will tell you if better and take pics too