IROZINCO

iTrader: (1)

can someone tell me where i can please buy a GOOD 12.7:1 quick ratio box? All i can find is either 12:1 (too stiff) or variables, which i have been told to stay away from. I got an AGR 12:1 box, and i can barely steer the car. NONE of the parts stores have anything on a 'quick ratio' box anymore.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I think there is something wrong with your box. If it is a rebuilt unit, bring it back and tell them to give you another one.

Edwardgp

Something is going on here, what was the reason for changing the steering box in the first place?

actarnoff

iTrader: (1)

"Barely steer the car"? What do you mean?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Keep in mind that there's no "12:1" box. It's a 12.7:1 that was described incorrectly, so if you're having some sort of issues with it, the box is to blame, not the ratio.

IROZINCO

iTrader: (1)

its incredibly stiff. requires a lot of effort to steer the car, and at slow (parking) speeds its impossible.

The reason we replaced the old steering box is because it had a 'dead' spot at top-dead-center. Could move the wheel sevearl inches before the car would respond, and it was getting worse. Was not comfortable driving the car at high speeds. Shop said it was the steering box, and ordered the AGR. Thing is, i've run into this before the FIRST time I had to replace the steering box. Didn't get a 'quick' ratio one that time either.....that was like 12 years ago!

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

It could be adjusted wrong. If the big nut was set too tight when it was assembled it would feel like that. It would cause the stub shaft to bind on the worm gear. It is worth a try to readjust it.

ASE doc

How is your PS pump doing? Did you flush out all the old fluid and replace it with new on the install? Most rebuilders specify that you do this in order to honor the warrantee. High steering effort throughout the steering range is most likely a low pressure issue. Of course be sure that your belt isn't sloppy loose. I run the AGR 12.7:1 box and love it.

IROZINCO

iTrader: (1)

ASE Doc - we did flush out the pump. No belts are loose. Pump worked fine on OLD steering box. Can you turn your steering wheel easily with one finger? Cause thats how EVERY 3rd gen (and 2nd gen) i've had has been. This thing is worse than a FWD car, worse than an old 60's car with manual steering! I called Summit today, and they got in touch with AGR, and AGR said I needed to drive it for 100 miles to break it in properly. 1st time I ever heard of that. So, thats what I'm going to do, and see......

actarnoff

iTrader: (1)

That means every 2nd and 3rd gen you've driven has had a worn steering gear. It should not be able to be turned by a finger. I like a nice, firm, steering gear. That makes for better road feel.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Before you installed the box - did everything move freely when you turned it? You should have been able to turn the gear with a pliers or vise grips at the input shaft.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

I sent my old AGR to Lee Manufacturing.Rebuilt & shipped back for $256.Works better than agr built it.

ASE doc

I have heard of others who had trouble with the AGR boxes. I've also heard that there are better rebuilders out there. I don't know how large an operation AGR is. Larger rebuilders seem to have more issues with quality control.

The 3rd gen is not like a sedan. Especially with the quick ratio box, as came with the special handling packages, and the wide 245 50 16 tires, they have a fair amount of steering effort. If you replaced a standard gear with the 12.7:1 gear, it will feel quite a bit stiffer. The idea is for you to feel the road and have superior control over the car, not to be able to steer with one finger. You should be able to maneuver the car in a tight spot at idle with one hand and reasonable effort.

I have never heard of any steering gear that needed to be broken in. I don't know what that's about. The gear should have been set up and operating correctly when it left the bench. I'm a little disappointed that they would give that as a response to your problem. My AGR gear worked just the same the first time I drove it as it does now. Of course in the 7 years since I installed it, I've only put about 20,000 miles on the car.

To know for sure what's going on, You need to have pump pressure tested. You can do it yourself. You just need a 2000psi gauge and adapters. At deadhead, the pump should produce 1000psi. One thing to look for when diagnosing a PS pump is spool valve opening. The spool valve is an internal bypass that opens as the pump reaches max pressure. You've heard the sound of the spool opening any time you've held the wheel at full lock. If you hear this sound as you try to turn the wheel, it could mean that the spool valve is damaged and not holding pressure. Another clue to a possible pump issue is chatter that you feel in the wheel from one damaged roller vane.

82tarecaro asked if the steering moved freely before you installed the box. With the front wheels suspended off the ground and the wheel unlocked, you should be able to cycle the steering from lock to lock with little effort.

IROZINCO

iTrader: (1)

ASE doc, thank you, now that makes a lot of sense - - so i wasn't supposed to order the quick ratio box? What is it that I SHOULD order? Yes, I know, its not a sedan. It shouldn't drive sloppy. But, it didn't previously, the steering effort was just.... easier. I have had 4 of these, including 1 that was only 3 years old and had 30k on the odometer, and NONE of them had 'stiff' steering like this. I have major neuropathy in my hands, and after driving it for 2 hours yesterday in an attempt to 'break it it" (ya, that didn't make sense to ME either) i have a cramp in my shoulder, my hands hurt, and its still stiff. It actually fights you in the turns, acts like the car does not want to turn at all. If i had to dodge something in a turn, or try and do a slalom on a road course, well, it just wouldn't be possible. And as for parking..... Well, two hands on the wheel and lots of effort. I cannot 'palm' it (spin the wheel with the palm of my hand) like i used to.

ALL these steering boxes have the same 'box' no matter who makes 'em. If i sent my original steering box to Lee, would they rebuild it? And can I ask them to make it not stiff?

I presume when you ask to test this with the wheels off the ground, that you mean with the engine running, IE, the pump working. I'll have to check that, THAT i can do without pulling the box.

Thanks to all who are helping with this!

ASE doc

For the test, I'm talking about engine stopped, wheels off the ground. The test I was talking about is just to look for binding in the steering linkage which should move freely. you should be able to easily cycle the steering wheel through it's full range easily with no power assist from the pump. We even use the tire to swing the steering when we're accessing lube points. There is some mechanical resistance through the steering gear, just from the ratio, but you can still move the wheels through their turning range by hand.

I have no issue with my quick ratio steering gear. I would not say that steering effort is excessive. I was only saying that it will be stiffer than a standard ratio. From your description, there is obviously something wrong. You either have low pressure from the pump, a failed hose that is restricting fluid flow(rare but I have seen it happen), or a problem in the steering gear.

These are a recirculating ball type gear. There is a rotary valve that is supposed to be activated with slight pressure on the input shaft from the steering wheel in either direction. As this valve opens, it applies fluid pressure against a piston or rotary valve in which is housed a series of ball bearings. As the piston moves, the ***** recirculate around a worm pattern in the input shaft and apply rotating force to the input shaft in response to the pressure applied to the input shaft and valve from the steering wheel.

That is a way over simplified explanation but hopefully it helps you understand that there has to be an issue with the rotary valve or else one of the two shafts is over-tightened. If it's a mechanically over-tight shaft, the steering linkage test I referred you to should find that out. If the steering seems to bind in the test, try disconnecting the pitman arm from the center link and try the test again.from the wheels. they should easily swing through their arc with the pitman arm off.

IROZINCO

iTrader: (1)

thats a great explanation, thank you. It doesn't smell funny or make noise. We actually UPPED the pump pressure, to see if that helped and it didnt' change a thing. So i guess something in the box is bound up or not working. I called summit today, and they are sending another box. Cross you fingers that this one works right!

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Before you finish up the install, make sure the box rotates freely with no binding. I think it was adjusted or assembled improperly.

ASE doc

X2

IROZINCO

iTrader: (1)

installed new AGR box. Now it steers. its still stiffer than before (expected) but its not fighting me or hanging. So i guess, just got a bad box 1st time around. Thanks for everyones input.