Gsoleski

I picked up a set of front coilovers with the reinforcement plates for $200 and at that price I bought them without thinking. Now I've searched but all I see if people saying they will warp the strut towers, seperate the body at that point, never use them other than drag racing and things like that while others say you'll be fine just use a strut tower brace. So what's the deal? I'll be using the car as an everyday driver in summer but I won't be auto crossing and rarely going to the strip. If I do put these on I will be adding the coilover strut mounts and well as a 3 point tower brace. I just want to hear from people that use them or people that have had these warping problems because I haven't been able to find any proof of that. Thanks in advance

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

It's not ideal, but with an STB you're probably fine. Some guys like them a lot so it's not as if there's a definitive answer.

loneroad

iTrader: (3)

im interested in this as well. i was thinking about welding the towers when the next motor goes in. I wanted to smooth and clean up the engine bay.

has anyone welded those when running coilovers? would that be a fix,or would just be something cosmetic?

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

its the candy man this all over... put them on and enjoy setting your ride hight.

as long as you stay away from the dukes of hazzard driving school. you will never have your front end Fall off!

you will have others chime in with the candy man. candy man. candy man. your front end will fall off!

but ill say.. ask for photos of it!

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

Only picture I have ever seen of damage caused to the fender of a car with coilovers was a red trans am that wrinkled the fenders because the springs put o the car were too short and the struts were bottoming out and that solid impact caused damage. I have never ever seen any other damage caused by the use ofcoilovers. I have used them with astrut tower brace and never had any issues.

As for welding the top cap of the strut tower, it will prove nothing because its just a cap welded over the top of the strut tower which is a single piece. There is no way for the strut mount to tear through it. No need for it except for cosmetics perhaps.

My only beef with the front setups that put the spri g up through the wheel well and seat In the strut mount is that they severly limit the alignment adjustment of the car because the spring take up most of the room in the tower and can hit the side of the opening in the sheet metal.

plum92_camaro

It's a fact that these cars are FLIMSY. So why is it so difficult to imagine changing the location of the suspension load to an area not designed would have any ill effects?

Leaving out the fact that drag racers use them, I have met 2 guys who run a full coil over set up but their 3rdgens are STREET ONLY. I have yet to find a autoX/RR guy running coil overs on their 3rdgen. These cars flex and twist enough with GM's design. BigMods ( http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicl...aro_third_gen/ ), and Pablo (search him here or FRRAX) probably have the greatest handling cars here and neither one uses coil overs. There is stock in the fact that if the hardcore racers aren't using them, it's not cost or the candy man.

I'd say its safe to say that coil overs are acceptable on 3rdgen drag cars, show cars, and some street cars but in the autoX/RR world (where coil overs adjustability/tuning ability should make them ideal) they don't seem to be getting any play.

bttrflybird

Hey Hey Hey i have placed a patent on the "Candyman Candyman Effect" lol The Internet said it so its true DUH!!
People people people Please learn to do research on as many tools as possible! I have learned great vast knowledge about my baby from the ORG and love this forum for that and the people who have helped, but stop believing everything you hear. Take part of what you learn here and part of what you learn else where and another part from what you know yourself. Then mold your own truth or put in the time to prove things yourself.
Be a Wolf Pack of ONE....it helps self growth on many levels not just a auto hobby.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Plum92, thanks, that's very kind of you to lump me in with that company.
You make a good observation and it's not just limited to a couple of cars. There are quite a few handling cars lurking around here and you will find that none of them use coil-overs.

Coil overs are a step in the wrong direction for these cars. The only use where I would consider them would be a drag car on skinnies that is trying to drop every last pound of front end weight. Aside from that, Imho they make no sense.
-They limit your range of alignment (I can't see how you'd get any sort of decent camber and caster with them),
-They limit the width of your tires and consequently your scrub radius to higher numbers than is necessary
- They are not designed properly, the spring centerline should aim at the lower ball joint. If you look at cars with factory coil overs this is what is done, the seats are offset from the strut body. Without this, the spring force adds to the friction of the strut which is something we don't need any more of with the typical small shaft struts, high KPI, and spindle length.
-The relocation of the spring does pretty much nothing for you. The spring rate will be less but what matters is the wheel rate which will need to be the same for the same handling.

The way I see it, paying for coil overs is like paying to make your car worse in just about every way. If you want adjustability, get weight jacks. You can do an underhood adjustable weight jack that requires no welding on the car (just holes drilled) for less than $150 for the pair.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Probably my favorite mod - but they do require welding the plates up in the spring cup (the underhood adj ones).

plum92_camaro

I know there are several others performing at such a high level but you and big mods are two cars I'm most familiar with as serious track cars that would run the best equipment available. Thanks for all your helpful posts here and FRRAX. You may not be ready to run door to door with big mods but your closer than most.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

And I would like to thank you. For that....we have been needing a buzz name for all the less than accurate info that is posted and I think it's a winner
my quote. Horsepower and skill.will always win over myth.
and a circle track car is not a drag car and a drag car its not a flat track car.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

They don't require any welding on the car if you build them like this:

Just two holes required.

I'm not a fan of grinding and welding on my back for no reason.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Where did you get the parts for those? Are they standard circle track car parts? I know where to get everything I need to make rear weight jacks... but I've never been too satisfied with the usable adjustment range I would get from commonly available springs. Always seems like a spring is too stiff and too short or too soft and too long to get to a moderate drop.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I hear you there. Install took some perseverance. Now if I knew at the time I was going to do an LS swap, I could have taken out the k-member all together. Though I see what your doing, I prefer the plates welded, my opinion. I also prefer the swivel units.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Don't want to hijack the thread too much but the parts I used for the front all came from Summit Racing. Speedway wants an insane amount of money to ship things to me where I am at. I had to make the upper part. PM me if you want more details.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

These cups allow a few degrees of swivel. You can see it in the pic.

SlickTrackGod

There is a far greater concern running a modified 3rd gen strut as a coilover. There is a fixed mount surface on the upper strut mount spring pocket.

Why is this an issue with a road race tyoe application? because every time you turn the steering wheel the bottom spring seat rotates but the top one is fixed- thus the spring winds up and winds down depending on which way the car is turning. I suggeted to Spohn long ago in the prototype testing on the first unit that we use a Torrington Thrust washer on the bottom see if the spring will rotate on it when loaded. I never got any impout back from him and he declined my offer to test the prototype I helpd him design and never spoke to me again. he later released it and I have not seen any test results on this and am sleptical it functions without bind. And, If it does in fact function...then how long will the Torrington thrust washers last under that type on constant twisting load? I know KAT ended up using his car for the guinea pig, but I never accuumlated sufficiant R&D data on that to recommend them safely.

Without that test research, I would never pay money to be a test dummy.

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

Thoughts on an inverted coilover with a threaded body with a locking ring? They seem to be the hot ticket on imports since they reduce unsprung weight and allow full strut travel. Do you think something like that would be worthwhile on a third gen? And what all do you think would need braced/ reinforced to make this structurally safe?

I don't by any means have the ability to fab this up, just wondering for the sake of discussion and to throw some ideas out there.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

Torrington thrust washers have been sold with spohns front coil overs for years. top and bottom.
dont know it it was at the start of sales. but they do come with them.

Kat

iTrader: (4)

And I ran them for 7 years and 40k miles. Other than switching to QA1 struts and blowing two sets out, I had zero problems. And yes, they have always came with the Torrington thrust bearings.

SlickTrackGod

Hi KAT, When I initially suggested to Steve to try the Torrington Washers, I told him my concern was if they would rotate the bottom of the spring on the coilover perch with steering imputs, Torrington thrust washers are digned for two purposes 1) to make round out adjustments easier(quick pitstop adjustments), and 2) they fight coil spring wind-up in articulation. Since turning a coilover strut has somewhat the same effect as windup, I figured they would hopefully aid. PRoblem with the strut setup is it is effected by both wind-up AND steering imput movement of the coilspring seat. My question on the bearing durability is does it function under both loads simultaneously and do they last with abusive cornering loads of a road race enviroment? That is the data I was never able to see or test without paying him for ability to find out if the idea actually aided function and reduced bind.


A typical QA1 will blow out in about 5,000 miles at most with my experience with several different street applications . We have wasted them as quick as 2-40 lap races in NASCAR. I will never ever invest in a QA1 ever again after my experience with them on the race cars. Our division was forced to use them solely for a few years. Glad that rule changed.

Kat

iTrader: (4)

Same on the QA1 stuff. My first set was 800 miles and the second I don't think that I made 500 outta them. Like I said in another post, they make the 3rd gen coil over struts out of steel now. But with that said, I think they still use a double lip seal instead of a double or triple O ring seal. I don't know how well they are cause I have Koni yellows on the car now.

Anyways. The durability of the Torrington bearings are great. I only replaced a set cause my car sits outside and they rusted out.... Oops. Haha that was my dumb *** fault for not fore thinking to coat them in anti-seize. As of now all is good with them.

loneroad

iTrader: (3)

I was at he good guys car show today, RideTech was there. They are in development with a thirdgen coilover package.The tech didn't have specifics but, they are testing it out now.

something to look out for.

AssaulT/A

Bringing this thread back to life, Pablo, I am intrigued by your weight jacks that you built and I'm wondering if you would be willing to post a write up on them including a parts list and basic instructions?

plum92_camaro

If you can't get ahold of Pablo here, try FRRAX.

AssaulT/A

Unfortunately FRRAX isn't accepting new registrations anymore.

SlickTrackGod

Gee, the little boy click doesn;t like outside opinions that challenge their manlihood? What a surprise.

I still laugh when I think about the guy with a 4th gen telling me something like I am aifriad to venture out of the local go kart track and know nothing about race cars. I watch one of his videos on youtube and the guy was cutting grass every lap- I think the fat asses stomach was hindering him from steering the car.

plum92_camaro

Its a security thing. Had a trouble with spammers so you have to e - mail an administrator and he will sign you up.