Chuck84TA

Since I am finishing up my 84 Recaro restomod, I am thinking of going a different direction with my next project . I am looking for a smooth luxury /sport ride for my better half. She likes comfort and sport, BMW like,I'm thinking...15-20k budget

Here are the preliminary ideas -
1-Get a motor less Firebird that has good sheet metal..

2-Use inner and outer SFC's to help with handling and shock dampening.

3- Sway bar size -Front 30mm back - 18(or so)mm

4- shocks/struts/springs -- not sure, but want a soft ride

5- Tires...not sure

6- Bear/Wildwood brakes

7- upper sunglasses console

8- radio steering wheel (GTA)

9-auto trans


anybody try this concept with a third gen before?

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

For 15-20k you can get a mid to late 00's M3 with really low miles, just saying.

After all of this it would still ride like a thirdgen (handle like it's on rails but ultimately ride like a go-kart)

I think if you wanted a smooth/soft ride you'd have to look at converting some cadillac components or something over.

Chuck84TA

She already has a 2012 X5 suv, just thought it would be a good "excuse" ( not like I need one) to get another 3rd gen and make it more aligned to her personal interest

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

Moog springs with bilsteins for best ride.

15" wheels for softer side wall. It wont handle great; but you are looking for the "softest" ride.

Everything else on your short list is good.

With that said 3rd gens have a macpherson front strut suspension with a solid rear axle. These words: solid rear axle, macpherson struts. They are just not made to ride softly in any way. On top of this the sprung to unsprung weight ratio is not spot on; making it ride even harsher. The cherry on top of all this is that most thirdgen interiors rattle & squeak, Amplifying the harsh ride.

Get some RAAMmat with ensolite (its like dynamat but IMO better). That and get some 3M single sided 20mm wide x 3mm thick foam and source every plastic on plastic squeak (under dash, under dash pad, in doors, in rear cargo area, sail panels, A-pillars, est.). Apply the foam out of sight to eliminate the squeaks. This works, I've done it my self and have no squeaks whatsoever.

(I used cheap felt the first time I went through my car to eliminate squeaks. The cheap glue ceased to be sticky after less than 9 months. I replaced it all with the 3M single sided tape, 3M is know for quality products)

Like I said in the other ride quality thread; a 3G can ride firm and not be harsh. but it will never be "soft" like a Cadillac. It can still ride alright though, you just have to work with it.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Could also swap to coil overs front and rear with a softer rate which u can't do with stock style or weightjacks. I only saw weight jacks bc u would need too short a spring at a low rate which doesn't mix well.

That way u can experiment with spring rates and have full adjustability.

Also replacing the bushing with new rubber bushings will help, no poly or solids of course as it will be too harsh.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I agree with the responses. The brakes you mentioned might conflict with keeping more side wall on the tire. I think you could go with thicker sway bars/softer springs and still keep a smooth ride. I always had the theory that the rear springs contributed to the harshness vs. the front.

You can also look towards the Berlinetta as that was designed as the luxury version. I think that the softer springs, thick backing on the carpet, and deluxe (carpeted) plastics are some of the features that helped. Even keeping the Thirdgen seats might make a difference. I know the 4th Gen seats I had were on the rough side.

Homer23

I personally would go with a late 00s BMW 3-series or a Mercedes C Class for that money. M3 and AMG cars are too much money up front and maintenance wise for most people's needs.

To make a 3rd gen have a comfy ride, put sub-frame connectors on it to stiffen the chassis and put on Blistein sports or Koni yellows. The shocks and struts need to have quality dampening for a good ride. I would also go with a C4 Corvette independent rear suspension. IMO, the solid rear axle is a major component of these cars having a bad ride. Last, DON'T cheap out on tires. Whichever 15" or 16" wheel you go with, get one of the best 2 riding tires in your size. I think it's unwise to transform a good car from a bad car and put crappy tires on it.

paul_huryk

You will never get a 3rd gen to both handle like a modern sports car and also ride like a Lincoln town car - isn't possible within your budget.

Now it is possible to get BMW-like performance (actually blow it away), just that it won't ride as well with a 3rd gen.

This is what I would do:

1) 275-40-17 tires on 17" x 9.5" wheels all around

2) 13" 2 or 4 piston brakes up front, PBR discs in the rear

3) Spohn or Global West outside frame connectors (you dont need internals with these)

4) Koni yellows front a back

5) 36mm/23mm bars with polu bushing and end links

6) Aftermarket rear control arms and panhard rod

7) Aftermarket tunnel/crossmember mount TQ arm

8) springs with slightly higher rates that lower the car about 1"

While you can change some additional suspension items, this combo would put any 3rd gen over 1g in street trim easy.

dixie wrecked

iTrader: (6)

Not sure if this helps, but Mercedes shocks can/do fit the rest end. For ***** and giggles I took my koni's off of my 97 w210, put em on the t/a, fit just fine. Obviously there's much softer options than koni yellows

58mark

iTrader: (3)

i went from 15" to 16" wheels an the ride is much more jarring now. Go with some nice 15's like BF goodrich touring TA tires

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

High quality dampers will make the biggest difference, I'd do all new rubber bushings and the best dampers you can afford

SlickTrackGod

Having owned both a 3rd gen (Grocery Getter1) and a C-class Mecedes (grocery Getter2), the Mercedes in stock form may have straight line ride comfrot, but the second you turn that steering wheel with a stock suspension the ride comfort goes way out the window unless you slow way down not to disturb the attitude of the car and it's occupants/cargo. I could not believe how terrible the car performs.(in stock form.) Now to compare that to my 3rd gen, The Mercedes has so much chassis attitude change and roll canter from the long narrow and tall wheelbase that any ride quality made the car fall completely short in performance- mercedes is NOT a performance car of any sort- I had to do a lot of work to get it to perform, and the car lost just a little ride comfort in straight line but gains a lot in cornering comfort. On a scale of 1-10 OEM c-class comfort was 9, handling 3. The Camaro in stock form (87 RS V6) comfort a 5, handling a 5.

now we go to what I built in both- and yes I went pretty much all out in both for daily driving use- but as a lot of you know of me, I build some pretty extreme handling cars. Lets compare these two since the Mecedes comparison was brought up.
My Camaro handing was a 10 hands down (as well documented, there was really not a car on the street that could touch it cornering wise and it documented a 1.07g skid pad test on street tires and a 60-0 braking in 102 feet(stock IROC did that in a magazine test of 147 feet) I should probably list it an 11 , Now comfort wise? That car road beautiful when I was finished. I would give comfort an 8 It truely was a very nice riding car, but I started with a very solid chassis that was 5 years old and a So Calif car. I owned it for about 8 years with only sport springs and Tokico Blue shocks and took the levels to Comfort stayed at 5 and handling to 6. Then after a that I built the living crap out of that car- why?- well because I started maturing and had a little more money in my pocket in adult life- Didn;t want a car payment and had a car with a good platform.
I stipped the interior and lined the entire car with Dynamt, I welded and fabricated numerous braces everywhere I saw weaknesses (spohn SFC's stitch welded to the rocker panels Everything under the car light weight exotic parts in suspension and drivetrain inclluding a carbon fiber driveshaft, drilled axles, lightweight gears, two pc brake rotors, Chrome Moly this and that. I reduced polar weight on the car so it was agile and did not produce rotation "momentum" reduction in heavy rear exhaust routing, Light front bumper insert- those two little things made a big difference alone getting weight off the car beyond the wheel base. I left 8x16 IROCS and used the best tires money can buy- and tuned the suspension to those particular tires (NOTE THIS PEOPLE- you have a set of tires and a car works well, you then replace them with a different brand and the handling will change) ( put a few choice little pieces of Dynamat on the inside of the door skins and the roof panel and the little choice spots help eliminate rattles of twangy metal. Just knock on your roof panel some time while sitting int he car... its annoying. A little few pieces of Dynamat go a long way rather than lining the entire roof with the heavy stuff and adding roll weight. "PROGRESSIVE rear springs" Comfort AND handling aid. Search my posts- I preach this with 3rd gens.

As for the couple of BMW M3's I ate for lunch on Calif Speedways 2.8 mile road course? I had a measily 135 rwhp and they could not turn lap times as fast as I was. I out braked them coming off the high bank at 123 mph into the turn 3 chicane at 30 like they were trying to drag an anchor...it was childs play and I posted images on here several years ago of those photo sequences proving it. This car handled like an 11 and comfort was an 8. I ate the M3's for lunch also in every single corner- It was not even a fair comparison.

NOW my current c-Class Mercedes (A 94 BRABUS I completely built with Koni's, HR springs Designed for a heavier AMG V8 on my Cclass, but appropriate H&R spring on the rear, Selected HR bar choices to taylor the balance, altered suspension geometry (the best I could- I had to build a few custom parts under this car and do some fab work) The car still rides very decent and what people would consider Mercedes-ish, and I would rank it an 8 of 10 still. The handling though, event though I can take a BMW M3, this car would NEVER hold a candle to GG1 my Camaro. They both ride the same in a comfort level of 8, but the handling of the MErcedes will never touch the Camaro and I rate it at an 8. I do have custom chassis bracing I built and welded into the Mercedes, but it does not matter. I also have wider wheels on the Mercedes and it is lighter- it still would not touch my old Camaro.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/pict...ictureid=47931

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/pict...ictureid=47929

SlickTrackGod

The ONLY way you are going to get great handling AND a smooth ride is to increase weight between the wheelbase, decrease polar (extremity) weight, decrease suspension componant weight and wheel/tire weight so they do not "unsettle" the chassis when thrust upward on road bumps, and increase antiroll weight (lower chassis weight to counter the positive (upper) chassis roll weight.

Here's a shot of my car after I lined the cockpit floor with Dynamat- Note I keep as much added weight within the wheelbase and low to the floor.

What is not show is I took some of the extra Dynamat left over and cut little stips and placed them on the larger panels just a small square or rectangle pieces onto those panels above the fuel tank, the doors, and the roof just to have a little piece of smothing to isolate some vibration on those larger sheet metal surfaces in between the ribbing (the ribbing seams are suppose to do the same thing)

Ghettobird52

You can easily buy a 07-08 335I with that cash. Twin turbos @ 300 HP and torque. EASILY tuneable with small bolt ons to achieve 400+!!!!! Plus it's amazing car everyday type of thing , 34mpg on freeway, crazy handling performance and No creaks or moans inside!! (ask me how I know XD )

P.S don't compare BMW and Benz unless they are 7 series and S class. BMW=sport, Benz=luxury. Same as Japanese brothers, Lexus=luxury infinite=wannabe sport

SlickTrackGod

Sorry, Not a BMW Ive come across yet I can;t out corner in my Mercedes.

M3's are not crazy handling. As I stated, I EAT THEM FOR LUNCH with my old Camaro...DOCUMENTED.

SlickTrackGod

On that note, I eat BMWs for lunch in my truck all the time. The car that seems to always want to race me is some guy in a 335I. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Vetruck walks around the outside of them on 80mph freeway changeovers and they about ****

The typical BMW owner is as bad as the typical Mustang owner. Naive...period.

Its guys like this I would pay big bucks to get next to in front of everyone to prove a point and embarass the crap out of you. I have never seen in all my racing career a fast BMW (street car altered into race car, etc) at an autox or road race course. They are never fast cars when compared to the general masses at race tracks. But everyone on the street thinks they have a race car.

Show me a BMW M3 pulling 1.07gs on 8" wide wheels... oir even 10" wheels for that matter. They would never touch a 3rd gen if I built it.

SlickTrackGod

Let me show you a little video Ghettobird. I want you to note I am holding a camera in one hand, and carefully watch my grip on the steering wheel with the other hand (Very light grip, very effortless) as I casually enter a 45mph freeway onramp at 70mph pulling close to 1g in this mercedes. Try that in your BMW and show me a video of your steering imput that smooth and comfortable...not going to happen.

I know my poop partner.

(Yeah everyone, I had Rascal Flats on)

Homer23

To the OP:
I would also suggest to get C5 or C6 Corvette front brakes instead because you can get the items except the pads and rotors from the junkyard for cheaper than a Baer/Wilwood setup.

Buddy

If you want smooth ride, I suggest not looking at a third gen LOL!
If you are set on one anyway, I think coil overs may be the best bet. And stay with a 15" tire so you have a good sidewall. Do not go polyurethane bushings, they are too stiff. I think there have been a few people that swapped in an IRS from a 'vette. You could get really into the project and swap one in.

SlickTrackGod

Heavier then stock unsprung weight= Worse ride quality. you guys are not understanding this. This is a terrible suggestion on a thread seeking better ride quality

SlickTrackGod

Why?

paul_huryk

In his defense, OEM sized brakes have terrible stopping ability and a few aftermarket systems actually weigh the same or even a bit less. Of course having to run a 17" wheel is going to weigh more than a 15", but the benefits of more tread on the road, more braking, and a more optimal sidewall will give a great result in many cases.

SlickTrackGod

The C5 brakes are not lighter weight. I quoted the guy saying to get brakes from the junkyard- those brake packages are HEAVIER period. This thread is about a smoother ride Paul, did you forget? Better eaving the OEM PBR 1LE brakes and going to light weight 2 pc rotors and some Stillen brake pads. Lighter weight and will stop better then the C5 or C6 stock brake setups from a junkyard.

Chuck84TA

Thank you everybody for your inputs.

It was mentioned that I should consider coil-overs, do they proved better ride quality in terms of smoothness ? Haven't done much research on those, never thought to,

paul_huryk

I never pointed to the C5 brakes in particular were lighter - I know there was a 10lb drop on my car when I swapped out the OEM fronts for the old Baer 2 pot track system.

It is doubtful that the 12" 1LE system is going to outstop the C5/C6 systems with equal pads.

Truth be told is that it would be an extreme compromise to run 15" wheels and small brakes in terms of handling and braking than it would be to get a 17" wheel and 13" brakes. Yes, weight is important - but so is handling, turn-in, control, braking distance.

odddoylerules

These cars are awesome touring vehicles, I can see this posts logic. If I changed my stock suspension this is the way I'd go.

Can't stress tires enough. On a crown vic, installing Goodyear comfortred touring tires made it feel like a different car. The wheel felt more luxurious, potholes and road surface oddities were silent and unfelt, and I was stunned.

The handling was borderline dangerous, so pirelli P4 touring radials were fitted, not as quiet in town and less comfy, but still miles up on the integrity radials. Handle great too

odddoylerules

I haven't searched yet but is air an option on these cars??