Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hi

I'm replacing my fuel pump. My exhaust system sucks, I can't get them pipes separated, so I decided to get the whole catback as one piece from under my car. I've already removed the swaybar, panhard bar and panhard bar bracket / brace. I have to remove the springs and shocks anyhow, so I thought, removing the LCA on one side would be the best way to get that exhaust out of the way. Question is: Is there enough stability to the axle when jacked and with jack stands under it with all the stuff removed plus one LCA? It's just that I've read you should always do only one LCA (side) at a time. So I'm a bit afraid if the axle won't move too much. Any experience?

Thanks,
Thomas

8Mike9

Will be enough room to not have to remove them.

Jack the rear of the car up.
Disconnect the shocks, panhard bar, sway bar, etc,
Remove the bolt for the bracket for the brake line, from hard to soft lines, holds.
Put the jack stands under the front LCA mount, and lower the rear end and let the rear end stop and let the LCAs hold it in place as low as the rear will go.

FWIW, my I-pipe was rusted, so I just cut it out, but had plenty of room to slide the new one in in the fashion I described above.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

I don't wanna have to cut my I-pipe.

So you think that I should be able to pull the whole assembly (I-pipe (mine has an extra muffler just a bit behind the cat in it), big muffler and the end pipes (mine have also small extra mufflers in them)) over the axle? My assembly is a bit heavier than normal because of the additional 3 mufflers. Do you recommend to pull out the assembly to the front or the rear of the car?

Thanks,
Thomas

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I do them on a lift these days but if you get the car high enough and the rear low enough, you can remove the exhaust straight out the back.

8Mike9

I would say give it a try first....but no idea with extra muffles.
I don't think mine would have come out he front, due to the U in the I-pipe over the rear.

but didn't you say you were getting a new cat back anyways?

Edit:

Sorry, misunderstood you.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Well, I only have a 50cm jack to put under the pumpkin. And then I guess the limiting factor will be the brake line, even if it's disconnected at the bracket, no?

So you think my other idea of removing one LCA could cause the axle to move or even fall off the stands?

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

I just replaced my gas tank couple months ago, Even with no eng/trans in the car I couldn't get the exhaust from cat back out in one piece with the rear loose and laying on the ground. Can't imagine having a extra muffler up front.

If you remove what 8Mike9 said then disconnect the main brake hose from the hard line at the mount bracket, All you have left is torque arm and two lower control arm bolts. Then you can just roll the rear out the way on your jack......

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Are you working on dirt?? You should really have a thick piece of wood under those jackstands !!!

8Mike9

Let's start over, floor jack under the pumpkin...raise it high...

Jackstands under the front LCA mounts...lower the rear.

If the tires touch the ground, then pull the wheels for additional rear end drop.

The rear end will just stay there...no stands under it at all, let it drop as far as it will go, the LCA;s will hold it ...

Try first and see if the exhaust will come out, should..but I have no idea what you have for mufflers...that may interfer.

Doing like I said, you don't have to disconnect the hard line, just the bracket, the metal line will flex low enough without and chance of kinking, etc (unless your's is rusted, then replace) and allow you to let the LCAs hold the rear up.

I don't know what will happen or how much you'd gain by removing one LCA...the other may bind up quick and only give you a inch more, but sometimes that could be a good thing.

Edit:

Regarding your jack, I'm metrically challenged..so if you can't get it high enough...then jack up the rear...place jack stand on the tubes...lower...get a block, put under the jack, and repeat till high enough.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

First: You say I have to disconnect the bracket. I don't unterstand why I need to do so because as long as my shocks are mounted the axle can't move more than on an auto lift raising the car under the frame which shouldn't be a problem for the brake lines... ? And as for the LCAs... isn't it actually the shocks only that will keep the axle from falling down and not the LCAs?

Second: I did as you wrote... jack under pumpkin, jack stands under the frame, wheels are off. I think you misunderstoos me about removing one LCA. It's not to gain more space between exhaust and axle. I thought by doing so I could remove the exhaust as one piece to one side... sideways not to the front or the back. The shock and one LCA is the only thing in the way to remove the exhaust in a sidewise direction. My only concern about the LCA was, that the axle could be unstable on the jack or some additional jack stands under it.

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

There's 2X8 blocks buried under the stands and the ramps are for safety purposes, I'm 54 and on my second trip around the block !

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I'm in my 40's, just making sure you will make another year!

8Mike9

If you don't disconnect the shocks, you won't have clearance to get the fuel tank out...unsure on just the exhaust...but you did mention changing the pump, I believe.

Now, with the shocks disconnected, the rubber flex line will prohibit the the rear from dropping far enough, hence removing the bolt holding the hard to rubber line bracket, to allow the rear end to go as low as the LCAs allow it to....additionally I'm pretty sure you won't get the springs out either, with shocks connected.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Ah okay, I was just thinking about the exhaust problem now. But yeah, to get the tank out I'll remove the shocks as well.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

So I guess the tank is eventually empty. At least I can't get another drop out of it through siphoning or using the fuel pump.

I disconnected the the harness from the fuel pump. But now I'm unsure which bracket I should remove for the brake line to hang loose so that I can lower the axle more. And I don't know where exactly I have to disconnect the fuel pipes / hoses.

I made two pictures:

1: https://www.imageshack.us/i/eyPwl7Lsj
2: https://www.imageshack.us/i/f0zoEOxxj

So in my opinion, picture number 1 is wrong. It's the connection to the axle where the two brake lines go to each side.

Number 2... the two right ones are for the brake / fuel lines (bracket). There are two brackets. One that just holds the lines together (more to the right) and the one in the middle, I guess that would be the right one to remove. Not sure whether the other bracket to the right has to be removed as well?

And the left circle... there are the connections between the sending unit's steel lines to the hoses. Should I just disconnect them here? Guess I should indicate somehow which line goes to which hose :-)

Thanks,
Thomas

8Mike9

Get under the car, in front of the fuel tank and coming down the body well, you'll see the connections for the 4 lines from the tank...a little lower, you'll see (to the right, looking from the rear of car) the hard brake line ...a bracket with one bolt, and the rubber line that goes to the rear end brake.....

Might be simpler to just follow the rubber fuel line up to where it connects to the hard line.

If you disconnect any brake line fittings, then you will have to bleed the rears....why I suggested just unbolting the bracket, and allowing the metal line that goes under he car, to lay down with the rear end.

Edit:

I looked at your 2nd pic...you appear to have a clamp my '89 did not have, but yes...take those two off.

Now if you follow those lines back up to the tank, you'll see the connections to the lines from the sending unit...once the tan is dropped a bit, it's easier to get to them...sorta dropped and pulled to the rear, or rotated backwards..gives clearance.

FWIW...undo the pressure line with tubing wrenches...just snip and replace the rubber lines..no need for fuel injection hose as there's no real pressure in them..and one is vacuum line anyway.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hi again

The bolt from the main bracket is removed. The bolt from the bracket to the right which holds the fuel lines and the brake line together is also removed but I can't imagine how this clamp works... how can I get it loose? I'm a bit afraid applying too much pressure or using a screwdriver because all the lines are rusty. You think I absolutely need to remove this second bracket? In my opinion it would be better actually to remove it as well... now that's really one of the hardest parts for me in the whole process until now. These are the manual skills I'm not that gifted with :-(

As for the fuel lines... you talked about lowering the tank a bit first and then removing the lines. Will I have to support the tank when the straps are loose? I mean the tank is not so light-weight and it might fall down and / or damage the connection with the filler neck... ?

8Mike9

I missed your reply...

Since I don't have that bracket, it'd be tough for me to comment on it...

Now...what you can always do is just separate the hard to soft line connection...but then you will have to bleed the rear brakes...as I mentioned before though, if the lines are rusty...might be best to play it safe and replace them.

Just let the tank kinda rotate to give you room..I supported mine so it wouldn't hang on the filler neck, but was easy for me because I was working in a pit, and just placed a jack stand under it ...but if the tank is empty, I don't think you can harm the neck...but again, best to play it safe

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hi Mike

Actually I wonder why you don't have these brackets. How do your brake line and fuel lines hold together / hold on to the car? I even have another one a bit farther to the front. I thought about just removing the next one as well. Maybe like this all the lines together will hang down a bit more to let down the axle farther.

But if I support the tank I won't be able to move it and get it out...? I have no clue whether the tank is empty now, there might still be a few liters inside. The defective pump (which still works) didn't deliver any more fuel after some seconds of running after I had siphoned until I got nothing more out this way. I'll just see what happens when I get the tank loose. Guess it's a good idea to start with having a jack or so under it until I know about the weight. Do you have a tip about how exactly to move the tank to get it out the easiest way? I heard about pulling it to the passenger side and a bit to the rear. But won't I have to pull it down first to free the filler neck?

As for the rusty brake lines... I had to replace the fuel feed line about two years ago because having a fuel sprinkler ;-) So I guess the brake line which goes right along the fuel line isn't in a much better condition. But it's really too much for me to replace the lines and bleed as well. My car has been sitting for over three months now. I'm just not that fast and experienced. I'm happy if my fuel pump will finally be replaced and then I can move on to the next problem maybe.

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

Once you have the gas door and plastic baffel/liner removed, Lower the pass. side of the tank while moving it to the front of the car, then continue moving to the pass. side until the fill neck clears the fender well area.....

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the tip.

You say "lower pass side while moving it to the front of the car ...".

Do you mean that I have to move the end of the tank to the front (which means turning the tank) or move the tank as a whole to the front?

8Mike9

Thomas...maybe I do have them...and just didn't notice them...for sure the only thing I took loose was the bracket for the hard to soft line conversion.

As the tank lowers, you have to move it sorta towards the front of the car...it'll be sitting in the area of the RR shock and coil spring were at.

ONce the filler neck is clear, you'll have to rotate the tank (on it's axis, like flipping it) some to get clearance ...PIA...but will eventually fnid happy spot and be on the ground.

Keep in mind, the brake system is at least 10 times the pressure of the fuel line..highly suggest you replace it while the tank is out...find some "speed bleeders"...and you'll be able to do the bleeding yourself.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Just for the understanding: Let's think of the situation that suddenly the brake line between the front and the rear gets tiny holes (like my fuel line). What exactly could this cause? I mean, there's a proportional valve at the front. If the pressure drops between the front and the rear, this shouldn't affect the front pressure to the point that the front brakes will fail completely, should it?

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

If you think about it, when bleeding brakes and you open a rear bleeder the pedal goes all the way to the floor right ?

Same as having a hole pop in the rear line, the pedal will go to the floor. Heed the advice and replace any bad/rusty brake lines while you have the extra room doing this job.......

8Mike9

Think of a panic situation...hammer on the brakes...rears not working...fronts pull ou down, worst case lock up...*** end (depending on wheel angle) goes crazy...think about this if you're on a curvy road somewhere..hit the brakes...***-end keeps going...hopefully the guard rails are rigid...

If the fuel line squirted fuel 2 years ago...replace the brake line now...we'd like to hear from you in the future

8Mike9

PS...age isn't a ting here about what you can or can not do...I'm 53, I'd spend a week if it took that long, to route and flare my lines.

No joke my man...car has to be safe to drive...better to be able to stop properly, than have it running down the road.

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

With a hole in a rear line, the fronts can't pull you down because the pedal will go all the way to the floor same as bleeding the system.

Trust me, My 89 Eurosport DD popped a hole in the rear line just as I was approaching a stop sign. I was WTF !!! Had to STAND on the pedal with both feet and still didn't get stopped, luckily I was able to make a roll'n right turn then pull off the road.

Since then, any vehicle I buy I craw my 54 yr. old butt under and check all brake lines front to rear, If your gonna have go ya gotta have whoa !

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I know... it can work for a thousand times and then... you never know. It's just, it won't take me a week or so to do this, it will take me months and I'm a very precarious person. Every move I make on my car, I'll have to doublecheck on the internet and ask two questions about to be sure I do the right thing. And bleeding the brakes / replacing all the fluid seems to be something, where a few things can go wrong if you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing. It could result in a defective main brake cylinder if too much of the fluid is pushed out of the system, something at the caliper could break while trying to open the rusty bleeder nut (which would mean to buy a new one from the U.S [I'm from Switzerland and you can't pay these remanufactured calipers, too expensive!])... in this forum I've seen different threads about problems or solutions on how to bleed brakes the right way, so I'm a bit afraid. I would need a procedure that I can easily follow and that will work out really fine. I would even buy a bleeding tool... it's not about the money. It should just be easy and safe to do. So if I could count on all of you here to support me while I do this, I will do it. I do have a friend who already did a bleeding job, but on a modern car with a modern reservoir cover. He could help me in a case of emergency but lives not too near.

Btw: If the power brakes fail, I would at least have the hand brake left. I tried this once when I went down a steep road. I know it takes a lot of force and the car will only slowly come to a stop. I'm not saying this as an "excuse" or as a good option, just wanted to mention it ;-)

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Just another question... can I place jack stands under the lower control arms if they only have to hold the weight of the axle and not the whole car? Or can the LCAs get damaged?

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

Under the LCA's will be fine just holding the weight of the axle......

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Thanks... my axle sits on some wooden blocks now.

Still, I don't know how to exactly remove the exhause (cat-back) as a whole. With my 3 mufflers it's quite heavy. I have only 2 people, me and my mother. I thought about using the jack to hold the muffler and then move it away to the back. But my parking is a bit higher than the road and I think that the jack will tilt over. Does anyone have a hint?

Here is a picture of my working place: http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php...1417538427.jpg