91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

i read this....

Best way to deal with that then, is to follow the PROPER adjustment method. Which is, disconnect the Pitman arm from the center link; loosen the out-in-the-open screw everybody loves to dink with until the Pitman shaft is floppy loose; back off the big sheet-metal jam nut for the adjustment that REALLY makes a difference, which is, the worm shaft preload one; back off that adjustment as well. Make sure the steering wheel requires essentially ZERO torque to turn; back off the worm preload until it gets that way. Then, tighten the worm shaft preload with a spanner wrench SLOWLY until the effort required to turn the wheel JUST BEGINS to increase (it will increase ALOT and rather SUDDENLY when the proper preload is reached and the Belleville washer inside there gets flattened, you want to get it just on the edge of starting to do that); tighten the jam nut; then repeat with the easy-to-get-to adjuster. You can watch the Pitman shaft and tighten its adjuster until there is no side-to-side motion of that shaft.

and have a question. i know where the "out-in-the-open screw everybody loves to dink with" is. but my question is, where is " back off the big sheet-metal jam nut for the adjustment that REALLY makes a difference, which is, the worm shaft preload one"??????

my steering is very loose and i think that adjustment is why. please help.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

i already replaced all the other steering components and got an alignment.

Chevy2035

You are probably in the same boat i was in,
I had a bunch of play, 10-2 was dead wouldnt turn my wheels with all new front end other than Steering shaft and the gearbox.
The rag joint had a bit of play so i eliminated that (Astro steering shaft, Only took 3 to find the right one, 95's wont work). Got rid of a bit of play but not enough, Next i adjusted my steering box., Loosened my nut and then started the car, Kept turning the steering shaft by hand and slowly (1/8 turns on the set screw) untill the slop was gone. This only lasted about a month and it was back. I ended up buying a reman unit and putting in, Been working great sense with no slop.
I found out later that it was because my rs (v6 to v8 swap) stil had the v6 springs and they had way to much travel and was pulling the Pitman arm up and down destroying my box and shocks. The moog 5662 springs are same height but far less travel on driving (Not quite as smooth of a ride but good enoough for what the car is)

naf

iTrader: (7)

lock nut on the input plug assembly. has 6 or so tabs on it, bout 2" in diameter. spin it off and you can turn the plug with a spanner wrench of the appropriate size.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Precisely.

It's on the end where the steering column goes into the gear. It's the same diameter as the gearbox casting.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

oh ok, so it is the same side of the bax as where the column goes....got it. i was looking all around but didnt think to look there. so the plug that you adjust is under that big nut?

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

[IMG]steering box by jonnyc127, on Flickr[/IMG]

found this pic. this is the big nut your talking about? around the input.

when i take that off will the plug be obvious?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Don't have to take the nut "off"; just loose.

Knock it with a chisel or something.

The entire rest of the "end" of the steering gear is the adjustment piece. It has 2 holes in it that you can get a spanner wrench into; or even, tap it with a punch or similar thing in the holes. You'll find it won't take much adjustment, usually; probably less than a quarter turn. If you just sorta spin the column back and forth with one hand to check in between minor tightenings, you should be able to tell when you reach the point where the Belleville is flat and you're starting to preload the Torrington. When you get to that spot, back it off just enough to un-preload it leaving zero end play in the worm shaft, and re-tighten the jam nut. Then set the sector (aka Pitman) shaft adjuster for zero backlash in the worm/sector gear interface.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

OK cool. Sounds simple enough. Is this possible with the box in the car? And for the pitman adjustment you go snug then back off 1/4 turn right?

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

lol well i found another good link... http://www.autozone.com/repairguides...00c152800a84b3

would this be good to follow? even the tighten to 20 ft/lbs then back off 1/2 inch?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The 20 ft-lbs thing is for new parts, clean threads, nothing to confound a torque readng; not sure how it would work out with random used stuff. Probably would at least come close. Wouldn't hurt to try.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

OK so just get it snug then back off 1/2 inch then?

naf

iTrader: (7)

or adjust it properly.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

so this is possible with the box in the car right?

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

wow that big nut is a pain! couldnt get it to get loose. might need to find my bigger hammer

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

You need to take it out to do this properly. Don't even bother if you don't have an inch pound dial indicator torque wrench.
There's a special tool to remove the locking ring, nobody has it, so it can be difficult. Then you need another special tool or a spanner wrench to remove the plug.
Look over the procedure in the sticky.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

i understand the 100% correct by the book way is to pull it out of the car. i decided to leave mine in.

i did the steering adjustments like how Sofa said in my post. i backed out the sector adjustment all the way, disconnected the pitman arm from the centerlink. backed off the large locknut, disconnected the steering shaft, and tightened the worm shaft pretty snug, then backed it off. tightened the lock nut and adjusted the sector until there was no free play in the pitman arm. i put everything back together and tested the steering. it still feels really loose. so i loosened the big locknut again and re-snugged the worm shaft just to see what it does like that. even with it snug there is a lot of play. i didnt want to leave it like that so i backed it off some again and left it like that.

there is still a decent amount of play in the steering. i can post a couple videos. the first is from a couple months ago. the second was the other day after the adjustment.

it is the original box from 91. is it possible that the box is just too worn out?

video 1 -

video 2 -

RamIt

That box is horribly loose. Sorry I cant offer advice other than get a new box.

I would not drive that car.

fireburdluvr85

I second the get a new box. Holy crap!

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

is it possible that my box is just too worn and there isnt any adjustment left in it?

naf

iTrader: (7)

you still have free play in the pitman arm. tighten the over center adjustment until it begins to bind then back it off a hair.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

OK I will give that a try. Thank you.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

so just to make sure, you are saying i just need to tighten the over center and the slop should go away?

is it fine to do the adjustment with the car running? just do a quarter turn at a time and check the wheel or something like that right?

naf

iTrader: (7)

provided the input adjustment has been done correctly, yes.

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

It will feel tighter, but it will drive like crap. It won't track and you will still have to make constant corrections to go straight.
I think the idea you can fix sloppy Saginaw boxes by tightening the top nut came from jeep. They even issued a tsb on it. Quick bandaid fix to make the the customer go away, typical Chrysler service fix.
Tightening that over center adjustment just masks the slop and makes it less predictable.
The problem is in the input shaft. That can only be readjusted by disconnecting everything. Usually helps to have new seal in the input shaft assembly.

naf

iTrader: (7)

adjusting the input plug as the OP did above, while not ideal, will certainly get the box into better position for further adjustment to the over center. based on observed play and prior tightening at the input shaft, I think the OP will be fine with making incremental adjustments to the top nut.

I've adjusted several boxes by feel, even though I have an inch-lb wrench near my work bench. The pre load increase is fairly large as you get close to a good setting.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

yeah i did the worm pre-load adjustment as best i could with it in car. i know the proper way is to remove it but i dont have a bench vise or anything to hold it still. i understand i probably wont get it 100% while in car.

i was able to tighten up the worm adjustment some though. i will work on the over center and see if it helps.

thank you all for your input

zenish

All ill say is don't just tighten the top screw.it will be great for a couple weeks and then as bad as before.I know cause I did this.I bought a remanufactured replacement off rockauto.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

which one did you get from rockauto? i wont tighten the screw all the way. i will make small changes to it and see how it goes.

zenish

as i understand theres a sequence to adjusting the box.follow it and like new box.i don't remember what box i bought but i always try to buy gm.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

yeah i adjusted the worm gear first, well as best i could with it in the car. now i am working on the over center adjustment.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

worked on adjusting the sector over center adjustment and it didnt change anything. i went pretty far with it and the steering is still just as loose as it is in the video above. i think i am just going to end up getting a new box.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

Well I ran the car to check the adjustments. No difference in play. Going to try one last thing before I get a new one. Going to pull the box and adjust it all the right way out of the car. If that doesn't work then I will get a new one.

Thank you all for your advice!!

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

well i pulled the box out. backed out sector shaft all the way. loosened the worm adjuster and cleaned the threads. snugged it then backed it off half an inch. then adjusted the sector til i had a light drag going thru center. here is another video. hopefully this fixes the play. if not i will be getting a new box.

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

worked on the box some more today. bleed the system, got the air all out of it but it still has some play in it and at a certain point in the rotation it has a decent "click" it is at the same point every time. the steering is smooth but a little loose still. in the video you can see that the pitman arm moves as soon as the shaft turns. i have i would say an inch or two of play in the wheel. havent gone for a drive yet and all of this is with the wheels in the air. i even adjusted the jam screw on the top. sorry for the long post.....

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Yeah, adjusting the box sucks.... I am replacing mine soon as I am tired of the slop..... and yes, I have done it off the car in a bench vise...... blah

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

ok this should be the last post....drove the car today and the steering is still bad.... going to get a reman from napa.

this is all while driving straight.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

that looks like mine while driving straight! LOL

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

Well got a new reman box and they play is still there. Going to adjust the reman box and hope it helps...

Chevy2035

Are you sure the rest of your front end is good?
I know when i replaced mine i still had a bit of play. Turned out my idler arm had some play. Granted the box took out my constant need to correct going down the road, but i went ahead and got all new moog front end

Moog Centerlink, Idler, Pitman, Inners and outers. And a Toughone box, Its like a brand new car now.

Now if i can get the back of this to stop driving like a tank..........
New QA1 shocks, New springs, And its still there, So tempted to mock up a 4link or independant out of a gto. To bad its my daily driver atm, Hopefully ill get cam in my trailblazer this weekend and be able to switch back to it...

91 camaro racer

iTrader: (2)

at the beginning of the summer i replaced all the front end stuff. probably not even 500 miles on it. i looked over all of it again the other night when i was under the car. i can always look again, might have missed something.

is the toughone box a steering box?

greenyone

iTrader: (1)

I need to replace mine too. Can anyone recommend a true reputable rebuilt brand. Everything in my neck of the woods seems to be Cardone..which I understand are mostly just re-sealed units with a lot of slop.