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I've finally gotten around to looking at having subframe connectors installed on my car. Unfortunately, I'm thinking i might have clearance issues because of my exhaust. Can someone look at what i have and suggest a good pair? I realize these aren't the best pics, just let me know if you need more detail in certain parts, and ill try to get better ones of those places. I dont know of anyplace around here that can custom fab some, or even if i can afford to have them do that.
The Alston SFC's I sell on my web site will clear that fine. The passenger side goes from the front subframe next to the where the transmission cross-member mounts, then goes along the floorboard, above the catalytic converter (it appears your fell off) then continues back to mount to the rear subframe adjacent to where the rear LCA mounts.
Drivers side is an easier route. Same front and rear mount locations, but the bar is straight on that side since it doesn't have to bend to go above the cat on that side.
Install the front first, then the rear. If you want to drill and bolt them in you can. That is how they were designed. However I prefer to weld them in. You should use a drive-on style lift. If you are doing it at home, you can use front ramps and support the rear axle with jack stands.
I've finally gotten around to looking at having subframe connectors installed on my car. Unfortunately, I'm thinking i might have clearance issues because of my exhaust. Can someone look at what i have and suggest a good pair? I realize these aren't the best pics, just let me know if you need more detail in certain parts, and ill try to get better ones of those places. I dont know of anyplace around here that can custom fab some, or even if i can afford to have them do that.
Thanks
I put the UMI ones for single cat on my 88 ( with the original cat & y pipe ).
No problems with fit
The Alston SFC's I sell on my web site will clear that fine. The passenger side goes from the front subframe next to the where the transmission cross-member mounts, then goes along the floorboard, above the catalytic converter (it appears your fell off) then continues back to mount to the rear subframe adjacent to where the rear LCA mounts.
Drivers side is an easier route. Same front and rear mount locations, but the bar is straight on that side since it doesn't have to bend to go above the cat on that side.
Install the front first, then the rear. If you want to drill and bolt them in you can. That is how they were designed. However I prefer to weld them in. You should use a drive-on style lift. If you are doing it at home, you can use front ramps and support the rear axle with jack stands.
Lon Salgren
I have a pair of Alstons I bought from you awhile back. I finally got around to pre-fitting them last night before breaking out the welder. I'm not sure how snug these are supposed to be to the subframe on the car itself though. I ground down the powder coat on the inside of the cups that fit around the frame rails and cleaned up the rails on the car too. Then I used my floor jack to push them up as tight as I can against the bottom of the car...but the cups don't sit real flat onto the frame rails even when the bars themselves are just about touching the floor boards. Is this normal? I can certainly adjust them with some cutting and welding if need-be.
I have a pair of Alstons I bought from you awhile back. I finally got around to pre-fitting them last night before breaking out the welder. I'm not sure how snug these are supposed to be to the subframe on the car itself though. I ground down the powder coat on the inside of the cups that fit around the frame rails and cleaned up the rails on the car too. Then I used my floor jack to push them up as tight as I can against the bottom of the car...but the cups don't sit real flat onto the frame rails even when the bars themselves are just about touching the floor boards. Is this normal? I can certainly adjust them with some cutting and welding if need-be.
This is a picture I found here on thirdgen that shows somebody else who welded them in. Mine look similar in that there is a gap between the Alston cup and the cars frame rails. If this is acceptable I'll just force them in as far as I possible and weld that gap shut. If not should I adjust them to sit flat against the frame rails?
Compare this to your original photo...is there a step in the frame there?
Not exactly what I was talking about. I was trying to describe the connector bar touching the floor pan but the cup that goes around the frame rail not sitting flush with the frame itself.
Not exactly what I was talking about. I was trying to describe the connector bar touching the floor pan but the cup that goes around the frame rail not sitting flush with the frame itself.
I have the ALSTONS and they fit like a glove. A little tight over the passenger cat, but a small amount of hammering cleared that fine. One of the things you should have done was to DRY fit them up there FIRST. If you are really close on some of the metal underhanging, a soft hammer tap on the floor board will give it some room. Once they are welded in, it is not possible for them to flex and cause a squeak or rattle.
I have the ALSTONS and they fit like a glove. A little tight over the passenger cat, but a small amount of hammering cleared that fine. One of the things you should have done was to DRY fit them up there FIRST. If you are really close on some of the metal underhanging, a soft hammer tap on the floor board will give it some room. Once they are welded in, it is not possible for them to flex and cause a squeak or rattle.
That photo is not my car. Just a photo used as an example. I dry fit mine and the fitment looks similar to that particular photo. I hammered on them and used to jacks to push them up to the point where that are touching the underside of the floor pans. I'm making them work. I'm just disappointed in the amount of work involved in fitting them. I probably have just have much time invested modifying these parts that I would have had by just fabricating them from scratch.
That photo is not my car. Just a photo used as an example. I dry fit mine and the fitment looks similar to that particular photo. I hammered on them and used to jacks to push them up to the point where that are touching the underside of the floor pans. I'm making them work. I'm just disappointed in the amount of work involved in fitting them. I probably have just have much time invested modifying these parts that I would have had by just fabricating them from scratch.
Understand that these SFC are not 100% on EVERY FBody. Time and some body flex may have made them a tight fit. Also I had a Muffler Shop do the install on a lift, which made it much easier to work on them. These were also made to be bolted in (if wanted) and you would NOT want any play where they bolt up to the front and rear factory sub frames.
Understand that these SFC are not 100% on EVERY FBody. Time and some body flex may have made them a tight fit. Also I had a Muffler Shop do the install on a lift, which made it much easier to work on them. These were also made to be bolted in (if wanted) and you would NOT want any play where they bolt up to the front and rear factory sub frames.
I got the passenger side installed. I forced the front in first drilled/installed one bolt. Then used a jack to do the same to the rear mount before drilling the remaining holes. I got it as close to the bottom of the car as possible before introducing Mr Miggy. I can't imagine getting a mig torch up in there to weld them in with the exhaust, drive shaft and tranny still in the car.
I got the passenger side installed. I forced the front in first drilled/installed one bolt. Then used a jack to do the same to the rear mount before drilling the remaining holes. I got it as close to the bottom of the car as possible before introducing Mr Miggy. I can't imagine getting a mig torch up in there to weld them in with the exhaust, drive shaft and tranny still in the car.
You can gain a bit of clearance by grinding the lip of the heat shield that is above the cat right where the left SFC crosses above the cat. It will allow you to get the SFC closer to the floorboard and give a little more clearance above the cat.
I'm wanting to get some sfc installed on my bird but not sure which brand will fit best with dyno dons headers and Y pipe. I'm thinking Alston will work but read they are lower and my car had been lowered 1 inch.
I'm wanting to get some sfc installed on my bird but not sure which brand will fit best with dyno dons headers and Y pipe. I'm thinking Alston will work but read they are lower and my car had been lowered 1 inch.
When I measured the distance between my dual cats and the ground, there was 3 1/2" of clearance. After installing the ALSTON bars, there was 3 1/2" between the bar and the ground. If you lowered your car, almost any SFC is going to hit with only 2 1/2" of clearance. GO SLOW over speed bumps and down driveways. It's a matter of looks OVER performance.
maybe I should go with another brand of sfc then I already have issues with anything not level with the ground, I really want to get the car back to stock height.
maybe I should go with another brand of sfc then I already have issues with anything not level with the ground, I really want to get the car back to stock height.
If your going back to the stock height, then the ALSTON bars will not really affect your ground clearance. If you don't scrape the cat convertor, then you will not hit the ALSTON design. I have had them on my showcar for over 5 years without a single scrape. Just be smart and not go over speed bumps at 100 mph!
you should be just fine for clearance OP. as stated above a drive on lift is best, but you must make sure the car is loaded during the install
I ran the alstons that I bought from Lon at TDS for several yeas and I had 2"drop spindles up front and 1" lowering springs in the rear... with a 3" hooker cat back. I then went to a S&W racecar subframe kit, and took off the Alstons, and sold them to EdPontiac91.... and they can be seen on his nice car in the photos above... if there were clearance issues, those photos would show evidence of it, and they dont
I don't have a cat to scrape but fort riley added the spike speed bumps at the gates because some idiot tried to bomb the base, I only went over it once to know my car was never going over one of those again... most normal speed bumps I'm okay on but the huge ones that shouldn't even be legal will do some damage.
IROCZman15, if yours was okay then mine should be good. I just won't weld them until I know they are good on small speed bumps.
I'm wanting to get some sfc installed on my bird but not sure which brand will fit best with dyno dons headers and Y pipe. I'm thinking Alston will work but read they are lower and my car had been lowered 1 inch.
Keep in mind that your trans crossmember is probably going to overlap the front mounts on the Alstons.
Finished my Alston SFC installation today. Many fitment issues.
Needed to hammer the rear brackets wider to fit. But not a problem. Needed to jack the rear brackets up to get them to contact the body. Installed front end first, then jacked the back ends.
Front right needed weld grinding due to sloppy weld on the inside the C shaped bracket.
Trimmed the cat heat shields and had to relocate a heat shield mounting screw.
Lots of work and many hours. Some of that effort was getting the car jacked high enough on tall stands to have working room. Did that twice, first for left, the a week later for right.
Rear hatch seems a bit more tweaked to the right. It did rub the fender spoiler extension on occassion before SFC, but now a bit more. Hatch is happiest with a floor jack lifting the left rear body just in front of rear wheel. Don't know if I should drop the left SFC to see if it settles back. Not sure what is causing the difference. Wondering if body is straight now, or crooked now, with 67,000 miles on it and SFC. Fix might be adjust rear glass slightly, but I've heard that can be a big task.
Not meaning to highjack thread, but to share what I've observed over the past couple weeks with the installation.
And of course, the car is now completely different, for the better. Everyone needs SFC on their thirdgen.
Oh, and a couple more things. The top of the rear flange of the cat is now up tight to the right SFC. It is sending noise and vibration into the cabin. Don't know if I should grind the cat flange, or figure out how to lower the exhaust. It's a HO car with large Y pipe. The Y pipe appears to dictate the location of the cat. I'm suprised I have not heard this as an issue in the past.
And the bolt holes of the left front C bracket needed drilling to allow bolts to go through. Apparently they were drilled, then bent to a C. Well, the C is not parallel on that one, so the bolt holes from one side angled upward and would not cross to the other holes. I'm amazed they are made this way.
Did I get Alston's? Ordered Alston's from Jegs, and received SFC from Heidt's with a Heidt's instruction sheet and no indication of Alston name.
Sorry to hear your problems, but that last note about you ordering ALSTON and getting another brand with their instruction sheets. I would contact Jegs's and say (nicely) WTF, I ordered one thing and you sent me something else. Maybe they were out of stock or what, but they should have connected you and let you make the decision! Another item is that drilling the holes from one end to another can be a problem keeping the holes lined up. You also have to tighten them up from time to time. You might want to weld these up once you get all the bugs worked out. I have never heard of the brand they sent you. Also see if there was any price difference and speak to Customer Service or a Service Tech to see what the difference is and IF there are any Customer Reviews!
Not sure what the story is. It did take a long time for them to arrive, like a couple weeks or so, despite the intial Jegs order confirmation they would arrive in a few days.
I think I should have ordered from Top Down Solutions. There I know an order arrives shortly, and do not get suspect product or product information.
If anyone has info to the contrary, meaning that I may actually have received Alston's, please set me straight.
Edit: Just did a quick review of Heidts website product number, and it's the same as Alston. All I can add is I'm fatigued and tired after a long day yesterday and this morning installing that right SFC.
Thanks for listening, and I'd be happy to hear from anyone that I did get the Alston time-tested product.
[QUOTE=Saxondale;6039361]Not sure what the story is. It did take a long time for them to arrive, like a couple weeks or so, despite the intial Jegs order confirmation they would arrive in a few days.
I think I should have ordered from Top Down Solutions. There I know an order arrives shortly, and do not get suspect product or product information.
If anyone has info to the contrary, meaning that I may actually have received Alston's, please set me straight.[/QUOTE
One thing, are they painted Red or Black. ALSTON only come in Black. Next would be to send pictures to Jegs's and IF it looks like they sent you the wrong product, have them send you the CORRECT pieces from ALSTON the PAY for the return of the other set. Since you did not weld them up, I know it's a huge PIA, but in the long run, you will get a proven product that does not even come close to what you re dealing with now!
On a side note, I would grind the flange on the cat, because once you get them in place, nothing should move. Do yourself a favor and get your car over to qualified Muffler shop and have them welded up. At that point them may even do a better job of installing these due to having a car up on a lift!
You are correct that Alston SFC'S are now only available in powder-coated black. If someone was mentioning that they bought them in gloss red it was likely when I used to offer them in both gloss red or black .
I'm curious about your installation. It doesn't sound as if the SFC'S were installed with the car on a drive-on style lift. If not, how did you support the car? Did you install the front cup first, then the rear? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to figure out why you had the install issues you mention.
Glad to hear I received the ordered product. Thank you for the info.
Modding the product to make it work was not a huge issue, but did add to the suspicion of potential inferior product, referring to the unmatching bolt hole alignment on left front cup, and large ball of weld on top of the back end of the right front cup. And by inferior product I mean mainly that the SFC are hopefully constructed to the correct angles, curves, lengths, dimensions.
I was able to lift the car onto extended 6 ton jackstands in the rear, sitting on the axle.
The front was on ramps, then lifted slightly more with short jackstands inserted beneath the A-arms.
I can not rule out that the floor is not perfectly level. I'd be surprised it if is. Before I have them welded I'm dropping the left SFC in the back to see what it does. Will redrill if necessary. Will drop both if need be.
Will also visit a frame shop if necessary. I'm a stickler for it being the best it can be.
And will check the distance dimensions of the body points that are provided in the 1984 factory repair manual.
I'll post a followup, eventually. Will take some time.
Oh, and what do you think about the rear cat / intermediate pipe flanges sitting hard and tight against the SFC? I think to grind enough from the flange would not leave much flange to seal the exhaust.
Thanks, Rich
The shop I brought to get my TDS SFC installed at is also having trouble with the install. They claim the Catalytic Converter is not fitting back on when the SFC are in place. If anyone has these installed on their car, can you provide some pictures of where they are welded to the frame? Trying to figure out what the shop is not getting right.
Grind the lip on the edge of the heat shield above the catalytic converter where the sec on the passenger side goes above the cat. This will allow the SFC to touch up tighter to the floorboard.
I had my Alstons and Spohns installed on my 92 TA vert very recently. The cups on the Alstons were definitely tight fitting, but with a few taps using a rubber mallet they got real snug and welded in really nicely. I have a separate thread on the suspension forum with pics. I had absolutely zero clearance issues. Didn't need to relocate, cut or trim anything to get the Alstons to work. On the Spohn perimeter subframe connectors, I had to trim about half an inch off of each of the 2 little side connector bars since Spohn didn't make them to work with the Alstons, and the Alston mounting cups were welded where the Spohn side connector bars would weld to the inner subframe without modification.
I installed Alston SFC and UMI SFC today.
The Alstons needed a lot of rework before TIG welding it.
I had to cut off 1/2 in on the passenger rear
had to bend a few areas 1/4 inward
Cut 1/4 off a corner to fold it in
And a ton of hammering to get them to fit well enough to weld up.
Kinda disappointing, but I'm an Aerospace assembler; so fit up and prep work is part of my job.
It still touches the stock Cat, but it's minimal
The UMI SFC were basically perfect
Little bit if grinding to get to bare metal.
Welded in without modification.
the tiny extra brace didn't clear for some reason.
UMI were 34Lbs for both, a little heavy.
Car is vastly better than stock
I can enter and sustain a turn by my house at 50mph now vs the 40mph before.
No t-top squeeks over bumps.
Added 52lbs to the curb weight.
I installed Alston SFC and UMI SFC today.
The Alstons needed a lot of rework before TIG welding it.
I had to cut off 1/2 in on the passenger rear
had to bend a few areas 1/4 inward
Cut 1/4 off a corner to fold it in
And a ton of hammering to get them to fit well enough to weld up.
Kinda disappointing, but I'm an Aerospace assembler; so fit up and prep work is part of my job.
It still touches the stock Cat, but it's minimal
The UMI SFC were basically perfect
Little bit if grinding to get to bare metal.
Welded in without modification. the tiny extra brace didn't clear for some reason.
UMI were 34Lbs for both, a little heavy.
Car is vastly better than stock
I can enter and sustain a turn by my house at 50mph now vs the 40mph before.
No t-top squeeks over bumps.
Added 52lbs to the curb weight.
Like the fit up?
It was super gappy all around.
My car has a lot of miles at 144,000mi
But the underbody is 100% rust free and didn't really have any dents or bent prices.
TIG welds my friend did are basically perfect though.
Like the fit up?
It was super gappy all around.
My car has a lot of miles at 144,000mi
But the underbody is 100% rust free and didn't really have any dents or bent prices.
TIG welds my friend did are basically perfect though.
Yeah i was just curious as to why the small brace for the passenger side didnt work for you? Im getting ready to have my umi sfcs installed (hopefully within the month) and i was just curious.
I mock fitted mine and it looked like it would fit yet my exhaust is not stock. Also my car has over 215,000mi so...
Yeah i was just curious as to why the small brace for the passenger side didnt work for you? Im getting ready to have my umi sfcs installed (hopefully within the month) and i was just curious.
I mock fitted mine and it looked like it would fit yet my exhaust is not stock. Also my car has over 215,000mi so...
The brace wouldn't clear the Cat.
No matter how much I moved it around.
Weird, because the exhaust is basically stock.
Only the CAT back was replaced like 5 years ago because of rust.
But it was replaced with a stock diameter tubing.
I plan on de-cating it anyways. Should fit after that.
Other than that, the UMI was super easy to fit and weld up.
110amps all out
ER70S-2 wire
The Alstons were the hard part.
The brace wouldn't clear the Cat.
No matter how much I moved it around.
Weird, because the exhaust is basically stock.
Only the CAT back was replaced like 5 years ago because of rust.
But it was replaced with a stock diameter tubing.
I plan on de-cating it anyways. Should fit after that.
Other than that, the UMI was super easy to fit and weld up.
110amps all out
ER70S-2 wire
The Alstons were the hard part.
Cool deal, thanks for info.
Maybe when the catback was replaced the cat got moved from its original location?
Also any reason why you went for both inner and outer sfcs?
Maybe when the catback was replaced the cat got moved from its original location?
Also any reason why you went for both inner and outer sfcs?
Two reasons
1. A member here said he felt a huge improvement after getting the inners done after the outer ones.
2. I have a 700 horsepower 6.2L LS (LSA blower) getting ready for this car.
I'll take any reenforcement I can get
might have to cage the car is the power is too much for the chassis.
I'm super happy with both being done. It even rides super smooth now.
enough said lol! Sounds good man you said t-tops dont squeak as much any more?
After replacing the t-top seals and this SFC, they basically make no noise.
Little grease on the bars helps as well
I understand you can't get rid of the noise
altogether, as it's a fundamental flaw of these cars.
I had my Alstons and Spohns installed on my 92 TA vert very recently. The cups on the Alstons were definitely tight fitting, but with a few taps using a rubber mallet they got real snug and welded in really nicely. I have a separate thread on the suspension forum with pics. I had absolutely zero clearance issues. Didn't need to relocate, cut or trim anything to get the Alstons to work.
Originally Posted by McLovin1181
I installed Alston SFC and UMI SFC today.
The Alstons needed a lot of rework before TIG welding it.
I had to cut off 1/2 in on the passenger rear
had to bend a few areas 1/4 inward
Cut 1/4 off a corner to fold it in
And a ton of hammering to get them to fit well enough to weld up.
Kinda disappointing, but I'm an Aerospace assembler; so fit up and prep work is part of my job.
It still touches the stock Cat, but it's minimal
So if Alston is building these on a fixture, the variation is in our cars, no? So no real way of knowing what one will go through installing these, until you get there? Not complaining, just contemplating the future.
I am doing a LT4 swap with mine. Are you doing a pull out or crate? What trans are you going to be going with?
I'm building my own LSA.
forged internals
Mostly stock LSA parts
I wanted to learn how to assemble an LS
I'll be going with a T56 Magnum
After tremic finishes their Fbody version.
As far as the Alstons, every car is different so I don't expect perfect fits.
But my car was never raced or driven hard.
my father drive it to work going 50mph almost it's entire life.
Zero rust anywhere
I can't imagine why the fit up was so bad.
Just an update to this old thread. The Alston SFC I sell are now available with powder-coated red as an option. Please be patient if you want them powder-coated red. It requires me to order them un-coated from Alston, which means we are waiting for their next production run if SFC. Then it is 1 week in-transit until we receive them. Next I deliver them along with some of my steering braces to be powder-coated red. This is another week. Once I get them back I'll pack them and ship to you. So bottom-line powder coat red is available again for those with patience.
Thanks,
Lon Salgren
Top Down Solutions
626-369-0040
top-downsolutions.com
03-29-2016, 09:23 AM
. Maybe they were out of stock or what, but they should have connected you and let you make the decision! Another item is that drilling the holes from one end to another can be a problem keeping the holes lined up. You also have to tighten them up from time to time. You might want to weld these up once you get all the bugs worked out. I have never heard of the brand they sent you. Also see if there was any price difference and speak to Customer Service or a Service Tech to see what the difference is and IF there are any Customer Reviews! 
