seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

OK, so I have an '89 Formula WS6.

I also have a '96 Jeep Cherokee.

On the Jeep forums I belong to, one of the "Holy Grails" is the Firebird "Z" steering box upgrade.

The lore goes that the steering box from a WS6 Firebird has a 12.7:1 ratio, and since both 3rd Gens and Jeeps use a 3-bolt metric Saginaw steering box, it will swap right over.

I had an '87 V6 Firebird before I got my Formula, and the Formula does steer a lot quicker. It's 2 3/4 turns, lock-to-lock. My Jeep Cherokee has the "better" Jeep steering box, and it's 3 1/4 turns, lock-to-lock.

The thing is, Jeep guys report spending many hours crawling through junkyards with no luck finding the elusive "Z" steering box.

Does anyone have any information?

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Formula definitely has a tighter steering ratio than base birds. From memory, that sounds about right.

I'm pretty sure there are new steering boxes available with the same ratio.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

AGR Makes two steering boxes that appear to be correct.

The "Resto Box (PN 425153) has a 12:1 ratio, and goes for 371.00

The "Resto Cruiser Box (PN 425352) has a variable 13-16:1 ratio and sells for 406.00.

http://www.agrperformance.com/Street...erformance.htm

I don't understand variable ratio boxes, by the way.

Still don't know whether those boxes would fit a Jepp Cherokee, though.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

AGR makes even better boxes. not listed in the part numbers.. call/or email them.. thay also can redo your box to as new. for under $200 with there billet caps.(not like this set of caps) iv got a older set of billet caps on mine.. this is what they told me before. I sent them My box I picked up from another member on this sight.the box in this pic. has some trick parts inside not found on any GM box.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

So, they can take your stock steering box, regardless of ratio, and make it whatever you want?

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

seems like it.. ya have to ask.. tell them what ya want..i did.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

OK, I think I've got some answers.

1) Which Firebird steering box?

On the NAPA site, I inputted my 1989 Firebird, and went to "steering components".

Two steering boxes showed up:

NSP 88277081 (W/Softride Suspension) (under "Specifications": # Steering Gear Box Turns 3 - 3 5/8) http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/...081_0370982772

and

NSP 88277101 (W/O Softride Suspension) (under "Specifications": # Steering Gear Box Turns: 2 1/2 - 2 15/16) http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/...101_0370982777

Clearly, the steering box WITHOUT the "Softride Suspension" is the correct one. My WS6 Firebird turns the wheel at 2 3/4 turns, lock-to-lock. That's right in the middle of their stated spec.

Aside from the Steering Gear Box Turns, every other specification is the same, and comparing the photos, they look identical.

So, I'm pretty comfortable saying the NAPA part number for the "good" Firebird steering box is definitely NSP 88277101
http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/...101_0370982777

That brings us to:

2) Will the "good" Firebird steering box fit my XJ?

On the trusty NAPA website, I changed my vehicle to "1996 Jeep Cherokee Classic"

It only showed 1 steering box: NSP 88278111 (under "Specifications": # Steering Gear Box Turns 3 3/8)

Now I know that box is a 3 /38 turn box because, instead of doing this research BEFORE my steering box went out, I put it off until AFTER it went out, so I had to put this box in my Jeep.

Anyway, comparing the specs of the Jeep steering box to those of the "good" Firebird box, they are the same, except for the lock-to-lock turns.

Comparing the photos, they look identical, too.

I'm virtually certain this is the box: NSP 88277101 (W/O Softride Suspension) (under "Specifications": # Steering Gear Box Turns: 2 1/2 - 2 15/16)

I'm going to go to the NAPA store where we bought the Jeep steering box, and see if there's anything they can do. My buddy who works on my Jeep buys all his parts there, maybe the manager will give me a break.

vinny R

I don't think that box is all that illusive. I remember reading somewhere that ALL 91-92 Z28's got that smaller ratio box. I just went and turned my 91 Z lock to lock and no more than 2.5 turns.

novaderrik

it's funny that the Jeep guys are looking for a bolt in tighter ratio steering box because all the old school GM A body (Chevelle, etc) guys are looking for Jeep Grand Cherokee boxes to swap into their cars. the Jeep box is actually preferred over the IROC/WS6 box because the internal steering stops allow a tighter turning radius.. honestly, i think they have the same guts except for the internal stops, which is why the Jeep box is a little more lock to lock- something that is irrelevant when swapping into a third gen due to the steering stops on the lower control arms. i know that i've been keeping an eye out for either a Jeep GC or IROC box for my car, whichever one i can get the cheapest. if i find a cheap Jeep box, i'm going to try to convince them to throw the steering shaft in with it.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, there is a lot of discussion on the Cherokee (XJ) forums over the Grand Cherokee (ZJ) box. It's the 2nd Holy Grail. There are apparently two Grand Cherokee boxes. The "good" one is from the single year (1998) they offered Grand Cherokees with 5.9L V8s. Of the nearly 250,000 ZJs they produced that year, only 15,000 of them were 5.9s.

Hard box to find.

Also, as a former owner of a '70 Chevelle, I can say with confidence that virtually any steering box made in the past 20 years is better than the Chevelle box.

I don't agree on the internals being the same, either. Remember, NAPA listed two different boxes for Firebirds, one with nearly a full turn less than the other. AS a former owner of an 87 V6 Firebird, and the current owner of an '89 Formula, I can guarantee there is a big difference between the steering boxes in those two Firebirds.

The Jeep Cherokee Box appears identical to the "bad" Firebird box, not the "good" one.

I have a brand new (well, newly remanufactured) steering box in my Jeep, and a 28 year-old steering box in my Formula, and I'm here to tell you, there's a HUGE difference in the way they steer.

Now you could attribute those differences to different tires, different suspension, etc., but there's a guy on the jeep forum who road races a Jeep Cherokee (I know, right?). He swapped steering boxes to the "good" Firebird box I linked above, and noticed a big difference in the way the Jeep handled.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

My AGR box is only 2.5 turns lock to lock..the difference in AGR steering boxes. Are all the support bearings on the shaft. Saginaw only installs one bearing.. AGR has three sets of bearings.. and there's more bearings on the internal from stock 16..to 26 in the AGR.

this makes the AGR box feel a lot better.. tight. ya feel the road better/feedback.

novaderrik

i meant that the good Jeep box is likely the same internally as the good IROC/WS6 box, except for the steering stops. not the base model F body box.. well, maybe the part that affects steering feel might be different because Jeep Grand Cherokee owners aren't going to want to feel like they are driving a race car everywhere like F body owners like to pretend we are, but actual ratios of the box are the same..

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Funny...one of those generations of Jeep uses a box that, when provided with a few mods, is currently the hot ticket for old Mopars. Prior to this, I was always jealous of the f-body guys, because their factory box was so good. I love mine.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Borgeson/Borge...32864/10002/-1

Grass is always greener, I guess...