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Man do I love third gen but the older I get, the more I hate the way the thing rides. Its really bad if I drive it in the city with all the filled pot holes and bumps. Bang, boom! It just sucks.
My car has bilsteins made for lowered cars in the back, kybs in the front until I get money for bilsteins . Full Umi suspension (included sfc) underneath and Volglund (spelling?) springs. Everything only has 800 miles on it. I even have the interior lined with fat mat to help with noise. When I had the kybs in the back, it seemed to glide over the freeway(which I liked better), now with the bilsteins in the rear, it seems bouncy but much more controlled.
The car makes 480rwhp and is a lot of fun. I just hate driving it everyday. I know a lot of people say "that's how third gens ride" but its getting to me.
Maybe I just need to be talked down from the ledge before I demod the car and sell it lol.
I'm in the same boat man. The older I get the more I dislike the harsh ride. I have single adjustable koni's with 200lbs springs in the back and stock cut RS springs in the front. Even after brand new rubber bushings and the shocks turned all the way down it still rides too rough for me. I'm going to try a softer spring in the front and new tires. Currently riding on Toyo R888's which I think alot of the harshness comes from.
I was going to try a new spring but I have to cut all of them(ruining the softness of the spring) due to the front being so light compared to stock(ls1 with tubular kmember and arms). I was thinking coil overs but Im sure they would be pretty stiff once I compressed them to get the ride height I wanted
I don't find the car inherently harsh, just the performance oriented suspension components are.
A good tire paired with relaxed springs and struts can make it a boat if you wanted. May have to think outside the box and go outside of fitment charts, and see what *really* fits based on measurements, etc since a lot of our stuff is performance oriented, but I don't see how the car couldn't be made to be very comfortable to drive in city/etc with rough pavement.
I went backwards. When I got the car at 19, I loved the smoother ride my car had. The older I got, I threw out that suspension and installed the very firm (feel every crack on the road) suspension.
Why don't you get a daily driver and only take the thirdgen out on weekends?
If another car as a daily is an option, I'd go that route. I just spent a good part of the day riding around in mine. And I can see where it would get old, especially in a northern state with poor roads.
For me, that's not the issue. I have 3 other vehicles that I can drive daily. I only put about 2-3k miles on my iroc a year. But, living in Michigan, most roads around here are very poor. I'm just looking to soften things up so my 16 mile commute to work doesn't give me a headache.
Why don't you get a daily driver and only take the thirdgen out on weekends?
Because I want to enjoy my car during the summer as much as I can. Im going to try a few more things to help out the ride. Honestly, sometimes driving it for 5 minutes pisses me off lol. Reminds me of that car x commerical, rattle rattle thunder boom boom.
I have my Sierra I can drive everyday if need be.
especially in a northern state with poor roads.
Yea, the roads are not the best up here.
I love my car and the way it looks, the interior layout, I just dont know. Im kinda torn on it. Id probably be mad if I sold it. Im going to test drive a c6 tomorrow to see how I like it.
Im not sure on that. One thing I love about a third gen is the visibility. A Vette seems like it would be closed off. Maybe I should just put IRS in my car lol.
I went backwards. When I got the car at 19, I loved the smoother ride my car had. The older I got, I threw out that suspension and installed the very firm (feel every crack on the road) suspension.
Can i see some pictures of your car, the little one looks good but i was wondering if i could see more. Looks like no gfx in the picture and i want to see how the stance is.
I'll post pics (if I still have them on my PC) when I get home from work. The front seems a bit higher as I believe the shop that installed the front springs didn't position them correctly where they should go. And yes, my car has no ground effects it's a 1987 Camaro sport coupe with the LT option package.
I daily drove my GTA for years. But honestly, I'm glad to have a daily driver. But my newest daily is actually stiffer than the GTA. Uncomfortably stiff in Track mode (Yep, it has one of those too).
But my daily is also 4 doors and a hatch-back so that makes it much more practical to deal with.
If I had unlimited funds, I would rip the interior and drivetrain out of a new 6th gen, retrofit it all into my GTA. Seats, Nav/HVAC. basically putting all the good guts of the newer cars into the old chassis. I'd fab up so I could use the IRS too.
But thats a pipe dream, i don't have that kind of money. Maybe one day I'll have a garage and could devote the time needed to a project like that.
I daily drove an 86 Monte Carlo for 9 years. It kind of spoiled me Rode like a dream it was so smooth. I have replaced everything in my Firebirds suspension and its still stiff and harsh I wouldn't want to daily drive it. For a 27 yr old car though the handling of it still surprises me and is a blast to drive on a cool evening or early Sunday mornings.
I daily drove my thirdgen for the first three years I've owned it on the same tired old suspension that it's had since 1986, now that I have a daily driver I'm finally replacing all of the suspension but I doubt it'll be any softer. It sure is nice to have working ac, good heat in the winter, and good gas mileage but I'll always keep my thirdgen. it was my first car and I'll own it until I die
Mine was a daily driver for five years and 54,000 miles. As "practical" as my car is/was, I decided it needed a break, some restoration, and after it got broken into, I got paranoid on losing it. So it's just a weekend driver or car club car now.
I drove a c5 and rode in a c6. The dealer with the c6 said they dont let people drive the vettes unless they are basically going to buy it. "If you want a vette, you want a vette". What ever dude. Anyway, the c6 was better IMO. I cant wait to drive one. The c5 had 44xxxmiles on it and was well maintained. To be honest, the road noise and harsh ride wasnt that much better than my Irocs although it way less noisy
(less sups bang}when encountering rough road. The c5 chassis felt more smooth but in terms of driving everyday, there wasnt a big enough difference to jump into a c5.
The c6 on the other hand felt like a completely different car from the Iroc and the c5. I would choose the c6 hands down.
Keep in mind Im talking about about how the car felt on rough roads and side streets, not handling or capability.
I've got the Moog 5665/5662 combo with Koni Race shocks on full soft and love the ride. It's firm and never harsh. If you want full squish mode then buy a camry but these cars can be pretty sweet with a good DD suspension.
. If you want full squish mode then buy a camry but these cars can be pretty sweet with a good DD suspension.
I was waiting for a response like this lol. I understand what you are saying but nothing is wrong with a little more comfort. Driving the c5 really humbled my feeling towards my Iroc. I thought the c5 would be way better but its not as much as I thought it would be. Im alot happier with the iroc after driving the C5.
You are looking at PERFORMANCE CARS. They all compromise ride for handling. Seriously, there are many, many vehicles that are setup for ride as their first priority and you are who they want to sell them to. Corvettes, Camaros, and many other performance cars sacrifice ride for performance because when you have 480 horsepower as you stated earlier, the suspension can get overwhelmed quickly by the power or road imperfections. Furthermore you have an IROC, the 3rd gen with the stiffest suspension because it was the top of the 3rd gen performance ladder. A late model Lexus can have the power and ride you look for and 20+ years of suspension improvements and you will give a possibly nice IROC to someone who wants performance over ride comfort. Rant over, for now.
You are looking at PERFORMANCE CARS. They all compromise ride for handling. Seriously, there are many, many vehicles that are setup for ride as their first priority and you are who they want to sell them to. Corvettes, Camaros, and many other performance cars sacrifice ride for performance because when you have 480 horsepower as you stated earlier, the suspension can get overwhelmed quickly by the power or road imperfections. Furthermore you have an IROC, the 3rd gen with the stiffest suspension because it was the top of the 3rd gen performance ladder. A late model Lexus can have the power and ride you look for and 20+ years of suspension improvements and you will give a possibly nice IROC to someone who wants performance over ride comfort. Rant over, for now.
Why are you so upset? There is nothing wrong with wanting multiple things from a car. I'm also just having some good group discussion with my fellow 3rd Gen lovers.
My car being an iroc has nothing to do with the ride since my suspension is completely overhauled.
Yes, my car makes 480rwhp. That has nothing to do with cruising around town at the speed limit.
I bet your that same guy who complains when someone wants to get more gas mileage from their car. I on the other hand am fine with averaging 12 on e85 lol
I want it all. But with my GTA i knew it was pretty well rebuilt with track use in mind. It's street manners are terrible. But get it up to speed and who cares about how stiff it is when you stuff the car into corner sideways and blast out like hounds of hell are chasing you.
About the only legal thing it can do well is cruise on the highway at 75mph. The engine must be kept above 1800rpm at all times.
Last edited by Thirdgen89GTA; 07-14-2016 at 06:10 PM.
My old 4th Gen had a trex cam in it (242/248 110lsa) that thing was horrible at low speeds. Sure was fun after 4k though. This set up is a little smaller. (235/242 110lsa) drives much better. Alot of it is in the tuning though.
I agree with what you're saying about corners and releasing the hounds! My car flat out handles in the corners and is a total blast. It's really fun with the cutout open in traffic.
I'm in the middle of a gen1 414 build now. Gonna love the power and won't wine about the mileage decrease when it does it's inevitable drop. As far as the rebuilt suspension there are some facts to consider. IROC's had the stiffest factory springs, shocks, and sway bars the factory ever put on a 3rd gen, so yea even new they rode the worst. That is a reason I kept my RS sway bars when I went stiffer springs. Put RS suspension on your IROC and it will ride better but at the price of some handling loss. Also, new muscle cars come with independent rears so they will ride and handle better. Technology marches on and if you stay with old stuff you will have to give up those improvements. You could graft new suspension to your car and have those improvements along with the title of the most expensive 3rd gen ever.
I'm in the middle of a gen1 414 build now. Gonna love the power and won't wine about the mileage decrease when it does it's inevitable drop. As far as the rebuilt suspension there are some facts to consider. IROC's had the stiffest factory springs, shocks, and sway bars the factory ever put on a 3rd gen, so yea even new they rode the worst. That is a reason I kept my RS sway bars when I went stiffer springs. Put RS suspension on your IROC and it will ride better but at the price of some handling loss. Also, new muscle cars come with independent rears so they will ride and handle better. Technology marches on and if you stay with old stuff you will have to give up those improvements. You could graft new suspension to your car and have those improvements along with the title of the most expensive 3rd gen ever.
See, I still want acceptable range, a firm, but compliant ride, and air conditioning.
Eventually I will insulate the entire interior with matting, and run a lighter weight carpet to make up for the weight. As long as its rattle free, a stiff ride isn't bad.
Take the wind noise, road noise, and creaks/moans out and even a stiff riding car is plenty civil.
Two major mistakes most people do when building performance cars..
1)heavy larger wheels and tires (increases unsprung weight and makes ride quality terrible- have to spend big bucks for light weight wheels if you go big)
2) Putting huge sway bars onto the car to compensate for the roll centers going into the dirt. the 3rd gen already has problems with the roll centers out of wack, lowering the car makes it worse and thus the need for bigger bars unless you correct the factory flaws. Try using 1" extended front ball joints with rear roll center (panhard axle position) in the stock or just one down location...and then reduce boht the front AND rear sway bar sizes since the car will then have more of a neutral roll force laterally. Huge swaybars lock up independent wheel travel and make for sh*t ride quality.
List of things I did for great handling AND ride quality...weight reduction wise..
1) Carbon Fiber drive shaft
2) Used 4 factory rear IROC wheels (rears are lighter then fronts- Grind a little material off strategic places of the wheels and lost an extra 1lb off each. - it was helpful that a buddy let me use his wheel balance machine in his shop were I performed this)
3) Custom made brake setup- 4 lbs lighter each side up front, 2 lbs lighter in rears (much more massive as well as lighter 13x1.25 6pot fronts, 12.2x1.1 4pot rears , Custom aluminum front hubs hats and brackets)
4) light weight ring and pinion gears
5) custom drilled flange axles
6) extra material lightened off rear axle assembly housing including added bracket material not used after testing/setup
7 weight taken off extremities of chassis (near bumpers- this is considered "polar weight") Weight added between wheel base low in chassis- this is to maintain sprung weight ratio but to reduce transition or polar weight so car changes direction well yet still has a good ride ratio sprung to unsprung. (exhaust redesigned, sound material added to floorboards low and center of chassis, sfc's help as well, alum bumper support, lighter wheel assemblies help vehicle direction change even. The heavier something is centrifugal weight wise the harder it is to start ad stop rotation. Any weight relocated closer to center(not cg, center of wheelbase- you want to always try to move weight so cg migrates to center of wheelbase if possible...in a perfect world of course) helps dramatically.
8)lowered my driving and passenger positions 3"
Anyone ever tells you brake packages are lighter then this they are high. You can not get lighter. Ive seen some claim Baer brakes kits reduce 10+ lbs...thns is false claims.
I don't have as much power as the original poster, but here are things I did...
Bilstein's all around...
New Moog Springs...
New Poly sway bar, end links, etc..
Del a Lum Bushings in A Arms... very happy with them after a horrible experience with Spohn...
Founders 3 way Poly joint Lower Control Arms... for more power, may use roto joint...
Wonder Bar, James Strut Tower Brace, Alston and Spohn SFC's (T-Top Car)...
Rides night and day difference from when I got it stock and tired in 2005...
Car was smoother with 3 way poly joints than the previous hard poly aftermarket lower control arms I had... I gave them to my neighbor since he had stock on his 89 Iroc...
Though the ride is better, things are louder... I have a UMI Torque Arm mounted to the cross member with poly bushing... I believe you can improve ride, but with some of these "improvements", car gets louder / makes more noise... (currently my car is naked inside, Second Skin Audio Sound deadening everywhere, but I need to run wires, put the carpet / seats / interior back in...
How about airbags? How much do your cars rattle? I remember when my car had several squeaks/rattles, etc.I thought it rode rough, but now that I've solved 95% of my noise issues.The ride seems much "softer", I'm also older now, but still the ride feels much better now than years back when it rattled much worse.
Maybe it's just me, but I guess the noise issues made the ride seem much worse that it was.I've been happy with my set up for the last 15 years.Don't see myself changing it anytime soon.
How about airbags? How much do your cars rattle? I remember when my car had several squeaks/rattles, etc.I thought it rode rough, but now that I've solved 95% of my noise issues.The ride seems much "softer", I'm also older now, but still the ride feels much better now than years back when it rattled much worse.
Maybe it's just me, but I guess the noise issues made the ride seem much worse that it was.I've been happy with my set up for the last 15 years.Don't see myself changing it anytime soon.
Very true. I'd like to think my car doesn't have a lot of rattles, but it does. Consequently, I drove it the other day with a set of ear buds in to listen to music. About 10 miles into my trip I thought, hell, this car rides a whole lot better than I thought. lol
Seen this post awhile back and I have decided to chime in. First off I am 51 but agile and no big gut to be a problem to fit in an IROC. I have had a few of these third gens over the years but the last one was probably about 13 years ago. I bought my Camaro sight unseen (it's a nice car so I am happy) but I bought it in West Virginia in January and I drove it to Michigan. By the time I got home after 7+ hours of driving I was ready to sell it. The sportline springs didn't help at all and living in Michigan is strike two against a low riding IROC. But I didn't sell it and started to drive it. Ya it rides like crap compared to my Avalanche but it handles so nice it makes up for it.
My wife, kid and kids friend and I just went to a car show that was 1.5 hours from home. Wow with the extra weight of two ten year old girls it made the drive a real chore. I was again happy to get out of the car when we made it to the show (they were too lol). What I learned is it is a great car for a less than hour cruise but any more than that and it begins to really wear on you. Reality is simple thing like storage, ride and cup holders are so standard for today’s cars that a smallish sports car from the 80's is almost barbaric. I told the wife that my '78 Cutlass will be the cruiser when I get it done and the Camaro is really better suited for short drives. She happily agreed. I also told here it was hard to believe I had one as a daily driver when I was young. Age changes you that is for sure.
Note: My convertible IROC and my 83 Z-28 rode far better or at least I think they did. I know the lowered suspensions really hammers these cars to the ground and hurts the ride a lot. So Yes I can agree how the ride sucks but it is part of the deal to drive something that can handles so good.
My '84 Z28 has a good ride, firm, but better than my '87 IROC. I think this is an advantage of a Z over IROC. Passenger car sized tires (sidewall height and width) are first. Suspension height MAY play a role. Hardtop over a TTop helps, for me at least, because the car body/dash/interior is not jumping about in asynchronous directions, and the '84 has subframe connectors. The floorpan/drivers seat connection in my '87 was awful, and felt like the seat was mounted on light tin (perhaps some truth). The '84 was noticeably better, and went away completely with subframe connectors.
Last edited by Saxondale; 08-10-2016 at 06:50 AM.
Reason: role, not roll
With 220k on the odometer (all mine), I do not concur.
SFC,WB, and 3pt STB are necessary improvements, of course.
STiG is on the mark with his unsprung weight and RC comments. These are often overlooked because they require more thought and more $$$ - more than just 'buy and bolt.'
I consider my car more of a road car vs a street car - sees a lot of time above 50 mph, so I will not chop the sidewall.
Lastly, the stock seats were lacking:
People really underestimate what affect wheel/tire combinations have on this. More than onces has GM addressed these complaints in the corvette by making taking standard front tire size down on the production vettes.
Lower profile tires and bigger wheels are not only much stiffer/less forgiving but also MUCH heavier. I ran one of my cars on the street which had 980# springs/koni yellows F and 225#/Koni yellows R (and otherwise fairly stiff suspension) on the street on factory 15" wheels and 235/60 F and 255/60 rear tires and it was a REALLY nice ride for something that capable (of course the limiting factor was the tires on the street, I raced it on some hoosier rubber which worked great at the track). Not only was the tire more forgiving, but the wheel/tire combination was on average just short of 20# lighter PER TIRE than factory 16" rims/tires. That probably made more of a difference then the big soft sidewalls.
Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod
reduce boht the front AND rear sway bar sizes since the car will then have more of a neutral roll force laterally. Huge swaybars lock up independent wheel travel and make for sh*t ride quality.
I agree 100%. It used to be an advertizing thing with a few of the companies that offered oversized anti-roll bars that you can have your soft ride and still have flat cornering... total BS. Most bumps and crap you hit on the road that makes the ride seem jarring you hit with one side or the other. Thick bars transfer that shock to the opposite corner, try to flex the body... and then when you it the brakes the car pitches more than it would with stiffer springs. The whole thing is unsettling in a street car.
My favorite bars on the car I mentioned above was a 32mm solid front and a 19mm (I think, I have it in the basement I can go measure it) rear. I've been trying to find a 32 or 34mm hollow front for my current project car and it seems like noone cares about anything besides the typical 36mm factory bar...
Originally Posted by SlickTrackGod
List of things I did for great handling AND ride quality...weight reduction wise..
1) Carbon Fiber drive shaft
Huh, the factory shafts in these cars cause all sorts of NVH and other maladies, but I wouldn't have listed here. But admittedly i swap in a metal matrix composite drive shaft into all of my 3rd and 4th gen projects because it does tend to get rid of assorted weirdness at speed in them.
2) Used 4 factory rear IROC wheels (rears are lighter then fronts- Grind a little material off strategic places of the wheels and lost an extra 1lb off each. - it was helpful that a buddy let me use his wheel balance machine in his shop were I performed this)
I have a hard time believing this, any idea what they ended up weighing with tires (and spacers to use them in the front)? EVERY 'bird wheel that I've weighed the analog to camaro wheel has been lighter than the camaro wheel. I have not weighed most of the Iroc wheels with tires on them, but the TA "hitec" wheels are _heavy_, like 54# F and 56 or 58# (I can't remember right now) R with factory goodyear gatorbacks on them.
3) Custom made brake setup- 4 lbs lighter each side up front, 2 lbs lighter in rears (much more massive as well as lighter 13x1.25 6pot fronts, 12.2x1.1 4pot rears , Custom aluminum front hubs hats and brackets
Well, I have lighter in the front (Non HD C4, aluminum..., custom spindle...) but mine won't withstand the abuse that yours will, and I didn't build them to (the car gets drag raced also and i wanted them to clear factory 15" wheels).
4) light weight ring and pinion gears
5) custom drilled flange axles
Do you really feel these at all??? I mean it is rotating weight but a small amount with a smaller radius of gyration compared to just about anyplace else you could take that weight off on a car.
6) extra material lightened off rear axle assembly housing including added bracket material not used after testing/setup
this is where my car sucks... I was absolutely sick and tired of breaking axles/gears in these things and plan on putting _a lot_ more power through this thing, so I gave in and used a great big Moser 9" and _added_ brackets to it. I think I added something on the order of 60# to the back of the car with this thing (then lost a few lbs in the suspension) and most of it is unsprung weight :-/
But I can't imagine how I'll ever break a 9" with 35spline axles and all the good stuff. :-)
8)lowered my driving and passenger positions 3"
How'd you do that? I _have_ to cut the seat mounts to have my helmet clear the roof, but I've cut the mounts to the point where the seat bottom is against the floor and I don't think I have them lowered more than 1-1.5" and I don't see how you could lower the floor pan that far on a lowered 3rd gen and still have room for SFC, exhaust... and just not scrape everything (I've actually ripped the floor pan right under the back of the driver's seat hitting debris in the road that wasn't big enough do damage anything else)
I consider my car more of a road car vs a street car - sees a lot of time above 50 mph, so I will not chop the sidewall.
"chop the sidewall?" What does that mean?
Lastly, the stock seats were lacking:
What seats are those?
I've redone the insides of the stock seats on one of my older 3rd gens to make them work better, but the seat covers on this one are done, and I haven't found seats that are the right combination of comfort, weight and $ that I'm willing to put in this heap...
I've redone the insides of the stock seats on one of my older 3rd gens to make them work better, but the seat covers on this one are done, and I haven't found seats that are the right combination of comfort, weight and $ that I'm willing to put in this heap...
Chopped = Sidewalls 35/40 or less on a McStrut car. When I move up to 17's, I'll use 45's. My car travels at some high speeds.
Corbeau TRS - they are not budget, though.
I agree on the front sway bar, I'm slowly looking (#850/36mm-#250/19mm). I just put in a Turn One 670 box/pump.
My front brake version- 2 pc. rotors w/ alum hubs and RR drop spindles (no longer available). I also have the swivel cup weight jacks which allow for some articulation - these don't seem to garner the attention they deserve.
Chopped = Sidewalls 35/40 or less on a McStrut car. When I move up to 17's, I'll use 45's. My car travels at some high speeds.
what wheels/tires are you running now?
Against my better judgement I grabbed some z06 wheels (17x9, 18x10.5), they were light and cheap, but i really want to go back to some 15 or 16" wheels, the question is finding some good tires for them.
Honestly, i really want some 15's in about 275/50-15 (I may just run some nitto DR's on all 4 if i can't find something), I think I have a cool, light wheel to run them on, a little something I whipped up in my spare time (the left is a 15x9.5, middle is a stock 15x7, right is a 15x4.5)
Corbeau TRS - they are not budget, though.
Eh, not really that far out of range for that kind of seat... Honestly I really want some S2000 seats which run in more than that used.
I agree on the front sway bar, I'm slowly looking (#850/36mm-#250/19mm). I just put in a Turn One 670 box/pump.
How do you like the turn one stuff? I just went through some steering box/pump hell which ended up with me rebuilding an HX box on my own and finally converting over to a type 2 pump (I machined some brackets, used a combination of 4th gen f-body, S10 and full size truck parts.
My front brake version- 2 pc. rotors w/ alum hubs and RR drop spindles (no longer available). I also have the swivel cup weight jacks which allow for some articulation - these don't seem to garner the attention they deserve.
What aluminum hubs are you running?
I have a set of swivel cup weight jacks sitting in a box with a similar plan, who knows when i'll get to using them :/
I have the same spindles, but I got them to sell them to me unassembled so I could change the geometry some for what I wanted
Last edited by 83 Crossfire TA; 08-10-2016 at 11:18 PM.
Nice pic with the kids getting involved!
I'm still on the stock Formula Deep Dish. I managed to fit the FSL 6pots inside (no easy feat). I'm waiting for Paul to get some CTW 17x8's. They should be in the #18 range for the wheels. Tire compound choice is the driving force for the change.
I have Fly N Bye's alum hubs. Nothing wrong with them, but if/when I need to replace, I would use Kore3 hubs with larger/stronger bearings.
Turn One stuff is good (12:1). Haven't had a lot of time with it. I have an E40 ECM w/LS2 and just sent it off with the PIM and BCM so I can have ECM controlled cruise control (DBW) and AC. Car is in-operable while I wait.
Comfort is a good thing. If the ride is harsh, it is upsetting the chassis: GRIP is KING! A fast suspension needs to have some compliance, otherwise grip is reduced. This means it also needs to be somewhat comfortable for the driver to have confidence. Thus, ultimate grip is tied to having a degree of compliance (comfort). Therefore, handling and comfort MUST co-exist!
The goal is to control the contact patch of the tires to keep the vehicle on the road, and generate maximum grip. If you concentrate on making the tire-to-ground interface as efficient as possible, you will maximize the available grip. With more grip comes more confidence and usually more ride comfort.
What are your plans on the spindles? I'm interested in learning, but don't think that I will change things. I can always learn from others, though.
You must have missed my 17x8 designation. There are many 245/45/17 options - Pilot SS being my choice.
No metrics, just a few pics before install.
RC and unsprung weight are huge factors as STiG pointed out.
Springs and dampers should be designed together - mismatching is asking for a harsh ride. Spring rates and damper profile are critical and need to be customized.
For overall vehicle control, mid and high-speed damping is crucial. This is where monotubes shine. They don’t generate the high internal pressures that twin tubes have to for the same force. Monotubes dissipate heat better and stay more consistent mile after mile than twin tubes. A suspension that does not keep the tires in constant contact with the ground is not going to be comfortable OR fast! Vehicles like Porsche and BMW come with more gentle low-speed curves and more comfortable and better handling because of it.
Compression:
In a street vehicle you want relatively soft compression. . .you need adequate movement of the suspension to provide ride quality (so it absorbs the bumps as you go over them as opposed to transferring that energy into your seat); so you basically want the spring to handle the suspension when it compresses (bump). You can increase the compression damping of the shock, but the outcome will typically be a harsher ride as you are inducing more force into compressing the spring – like having a very high spring rate. High compression forces cause poor ride quality - like the OP mentions.
More compression force will help ride quality in an under-sprung car (maybe keeping the suspension from bottoming out), but will hurt ride quality in a properly sprung (or over-sprung) vehicle.
In a more "race oriented" vehicle you are typically traversing a relatively smooth surface, so you don't see much compression due to "bumps"; only compression due to major brake pedal application or major steering wheel rotation (weight transfer).
So compression adjustment becomes a means of slowing down the compression of the suspension.
Basically, if you have a car that is primarily street driven with the occasional "track day" you are best off having a monotube, rebound adjustable shock. You don't lose much not having compression adjustment (as you'll just make ride quality worse); you want a monotube as the piston is almost twice the size of a twin tube, so it has better "control" (more surface area makes it more effective); and you can still have great ride quality and a fast car on the weekends.
Lower profile tires and bigger wheels are not only much stiffer/less forgiving but also MUCH heavier. I ran one of my cars on the street which had 980# springs/koni yellows F and 225#/Koni yellows R (and otherwise fairly stiff suspension) on the street on factory 15" wheels and 235/60 F and 255/60 rear tires and it was a REALLY nice ride for something that capable (of course the limiting factor was the tires on the street, I raced it on some hoosier rubber which worked great at the track). Not only was the tire more forgiving, but the wheel/tire combination was on average just short of 20# lighter PER TIRE than factory 16" rims/tires. That probably made more of a difference then the big soft sidewalls.
I have a hard time believing this, any idea what they ended up weighing with tires (and spacers to use them in the front)? EVERY 'bird wheel that I've weighed the analog to camaro wheel has been lighter than the camaro wheel. I have not weighed most of the Iroc wheels with tires on them, but the TA "hitec" wheels are _heavy_, like 54# F and 56 or 58# (I can't remember right now) R with factory goodyear gatorbacks on them.
IROC fronts 21lbs, IROC rears 19lbs. I shaved another lb off so 18 + 26lb tire = 44lbs each. I have some bird mesh wheels in my garage right now that weigh 17lbs each (WTF's wheels I am storing for him)
Originally Posted by 83 Crossfire TA
Well, I have lighter in the front (Non HD C4, aluminum..., custom spindle...) but mine won't withstand the abuse that yours will, and I didn't build them to (the car gets drag raced also and i wanted them to clear factory 15" wheels).
I would like to see someone compare a delco moraine factory setup with a 1le factory setup apples to apples.
Here's mine:
CF driveshaft:
Originally Posted by 83 Crossfire TA
Do you really feel these at all??? I mean it is rotating weight but a small amount with a smaller radius of gyration compared to just about anyplace else you could take that weight off on a car.
this is where my car sucks... I was absolutely sick and tired of breaking axles/gears in these things and plan on putting _a lot_ more power through this thing, so I gave in and used a great big Moser 9" and _added_ brackets to it. I think I added something on the order of 60# to the back of the car with this thing (then lost a few lbs in the suspension) and most of it is unsprung weight :-/
But I can't imagine how I'll ever break a 9" with 35spline axles and all the good stuff. :-)
It all adds up. Here were my rear axle flanges even. Also note the aluminum diff cover
Originally Posted by 83 Crossfire TA
How'd you do that? I _have_ to cut the seat mounts to have my helmet clear the roof, but I've cut the mounts to the point where the seat bottom is against the floor and I don't think I have them lowered more than 1-1.5" and I don't see how you could lower the floor pan that far on a lowered 3rd gen and still have room for SFC, exhaust... and just not scrape everything (I've actually ripped the floor pan right under the back of the driver's seat hitting debris in the road that wasn't big enough do damage anything else)
Momo race recliners and I welded the sliders to the floor mounts. Seat position was over 2" lower then factory seats. I also know because my head would touch the roof and could not drive the car with a helmet on unless I reclined the seat to uncomfortable rear angle. Look at the seat (butt height) compared to the center console.
My *** is around 8 inches off of the ground lol with the door open I can put my hand flat on the road easy . My setup rides pretty nice for a track oriented design... Coil over with 275 springs and custom internal valving, hotchkis big bar up front and an Iroc bar in the rear, I'm also on a custom built set of lower control arms that are three inches longer each than stock. So that in it self changes a lot ,
07-11-2016, 07:18 AM
(the left is a 15x9.5, middle is a stock 15x7, right is a 15x4.5)
