Tas

Preface:

this is not a post about:

Aftermarket Product Review, Aftermarket Vendor Review, Appearance, Body and Interior, Car Audio, Carburetors, Electronics, Exhaust, History / Restoration, Motor Swap, Power Adder, PROM burning, Racing and Autocross, TPI, Tech / General Engine, Transmissions and Drivetrain, Suspension / Chassis / Brakes, V6, Group Purchases, Spohn Performance, Inc., or any other jack board no one has heard about or ever visited. It is TBI, all TBI. TBI related. Prevalent to TBI.

Forward:

This post is inteded to give TBIers a hope for what is possible by compaing them to the pinacle of Ford engineering -[insert chuckle here]- by comparing the Chevy 5.0L to the Ford 4.6L and all its suprising extra power.

Thank you and I hope you enjoy the show. Inside I will assume you will find a heated but healty ADULT debate witn no rolling eyes and no fuzzy math .


To research the other side of the looking glass check: http://www.corral.net/cgi-bin/forumd...Forum&number=2

[This message has been edited by Tas (edited January 28, 2001).]

Tas

Well everyone assumes the 305 can't make power because of its small bore and long stroke. Well guess what? the 4.6L Ford has an even smaller bore and even larger stroke!

Ford 4.6L: 3.55 X 3.54 = bore x stroke
Chevy 5.0L: 3.736 x 3.484 = bore x stroke
Chevy 5.7L: 4.001 x 3.484 = bore x stroke



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-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
[soon to be Torch Red with black hood and headlights =) ]

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

Tas

it would be good to see what TQ they have and where the TQ and HP is at. Maybe someone can find that

5.0L TBI ________ 170 hp@? 255 TQ@?
vs 4.6L GT ______ 260 hp@? 305 TQ@?
vs. 5.0L Vortec __ 230 hp@? 285 TQ@?
vs. 5.0L TPI _____ 230?hp@ ?TQ@?

4.6s have 5000RPM redline to 5800RPM redline (6200 rev limiter)


[This message has been edited by Tas (edited January 28, 2001).]

89RS355

I've done a fair amount of modding to my buddy's 2000 4.6L GT. I got it to run 14.4s at 96mph. Could have done better, but not much. They do make some decent power. But, the motor is almost maxed out. Ford has the fuel system and exhaust maxed from the factory. Anything more than a K&N and you would need new pump, injectors, headers, etc.
The heads are alot different, and we all know how that can make a big difference in power output. It's not just the borexstroke you need to look at.
Funny thing is, we put a huffer on it, and my 94 (which is na) can still beat it. They need to focus alot on the traction. It s a well balance car from the factory, but upset that balance and it becomes it's own worst enemy.

I don't have my notes from working on it in front of me: What is the compression ratio? I think it was around 9 if I remember right. Also, they have a healthy ignition system from the factory, among other engine managment tricks that keep up the ponies.
When his was stock, it seemed to me like it had a sweet spot in the powerband. Almost like a dirtbike if you know what I mean. Too peaky for me. I like mine low and flat for the whole sweep.

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Jerry

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89 RS Lt Blue T-Tops T5
355 Crate, Compucam 2040
Pst Front Hotchkis Rear
Edle. TES 3" Flowmaster
Harwood hood, bla, bla, bla...
94 Z28, LT1 6M, Black
Most of the bolt-ons
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Arctic White 91 RS

Saw a comment in HOT ROD a few months back, a reader had written in about the 4.6 and the expense of modding it for serious power.

To paraphrase it said, if you feed a pig gourmet ice cream when all's said a done you still have a pig...

I think the idea for the 4.6 is pretty good...but it really need to have about 5.0 displacement to shine.

The Cobra R's 5.3 is a pretty decent engine.

I've messed with two 4.6 Mustangs, took one going downhill, but he lifted at the bottom or he'd have won when we started up the next hill.

Ran on level, pulled him thru first, when my RS hit 2nd he pulled even then away.

4.6 has the edge over a stock TBI in power.



[This message has been edited by Arctic White 91 RS (edited January 28, 2001).]

Zac's92

Tas,
You tell 'em how it is. I'm with you man.
Now about 4.6 mustangs, before I got my headers and exaust or posi I race a friend with a 4.6GT auto with cold air intake, cat back exaust,and a adj. fuel reg.
By 100mph he was almost one car length ahead. So 4.6GT's are't that far off from a slightly modified Lo3. He now has a 5.0lx 5-speed that has 290rwhp and I can only keep up on the juice.

Zac Spalding

snflupigus

i got beat to 80 by a car length by an 5.0lx auto.

Tas

ok I gures I should have said this. There are 2 types of 4.6L Ford(2v I mean of course, 4v is a different game). Pre 1999 Mustang GT and 1999+ Mustang GT. The 99+ will kick your a$$, the pre '99 should be a good match for a modded L03.

pre '99= 215 HP
'99+ = 260 HP that gets to 300hp with just bolt ons.

The pre '99 just needs the 99+ heads to be in the game. That swap is getting popular so watch out.

They only have 1 head choice and few cams. We have all the heads and cams in the world!

we should rule

ONEFINE8T9

u can only play so much into #s though. I took a 4.6 gt in a 2000 grand am se. he got the jump and i hit it in 2nd(auto) and it was dead even, He pulled half a car by 90. So i think a good running LO3 would be able to run one. depending on gears and tranny of course.

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1989 pontiac firebird
bright red exterior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/Mikey89.html
-------------------------
1985 trans am
factory bright yellow
4 wheel disks
16 inch wheels
305 TPI
power antenna and mirrors
t tops

ONEFINE8T9

btw it was like a 96 gt not the new 99+

Z28 Boy

i ran a 4.6 'stang last summer, and i had him by a car length to about 70. his was a 5 speed and had some definite exhaust work. granted i dont have an L03 anymore, but still. i have a 2.73 open rear end with crap tires, and no custom chip. just my opinion, they are slow.

-brian

JPrevost

So what do you guys think if I got the 330hp crate engine with: Holley 670cfm, use hypertech thermo chip for now, SLP shift kit, edelbrock air gap vortec manifold. Oh yeah, and 3.08 open rear, oh yeah, and has tri-y headers -> full 3" system single 3"out. What do you guys think, would I be able to eat those 4.6L 99+?

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list), getting new engine in summer

91Bird305

I don't know, ask Brian (Z28 Boy)

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

JPrevost

I did, he hasn't raced his car yet :-(
He also doesn't have a custom chip so his car is probably pinging like crazy since the chip is setting the timing agressive but with no EGR = detonation :-(
Oh well

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list), getting new engine in summer

91Bird305

Yeah, I am kinda waiting for Brian to get a custom chip and higher gears and see what he runs at the track. Would be really interesting to see what he can do with that 350HO engine. But I hear he is looking at a new car too.

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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

Z28 Boy

nope, no pinging...surprisingly. i odnt know what it is, but it runs like a charm with a stock chip.

yeah i am looking for another car...a 98 grand prix GTP. i love those things. but im not getting rid of the Camaro, no way.

-brian

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1991 Camaro RS - Ultra Blue Metallic, T-Tops
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GM 350 HO Crate Engine - Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Performer Vortec Intake, Holley 670 CFM Throttle Body, Open Air Cleaner w/14"x3" K&N, SLP 1 3/4" Stainless Headers, Edelbrock Victor Series Water Pump, March Unerdrive Pulleys, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, 8.5mm Super Conductors, Cap and Rotor, Hypertech Fan Switch & Thermomaster Chip, AC Delco Rapidfires, 3" Cat Back, Flowmaster 40 Series Muffler
700R4 - 2,400 Stall Converter, Vette Servo, Shift Kit, B&M Super Cooler
GM 10 Bolt -coming soon Auburn Pro Series Differential, Richmond 3.73s
Brian's 1991 RS Central NY F-Body Association
Join the Third Generation F-Body TBI Web Ring
z28boy@twcny.rr.com IM name: Z28 Boy