Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hello everyone

As I have to replace my fuel pump, I need to drain my fuel tank. It's full to the brim. If I'm lucky, the fuel pump will still work so that I thought taking off the fuel feed line at the TBI and run the pump to drain the fuel into a can.

I have heard about fuel pressure. So is it safe to remove the fuel feed line on the TBI or do I have to consider some things for safety? My battery is quite low, so I'd rather not use the starter to relieve pressure (if there is any left).

I drive an '88 stock Camaro.

Thanks,
Thomas

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

If the pump still works, why are ya changing it? Anyway, remove the line at the fuel filter and drain it that way or power syphon it from the filler neck, albeit a small hose though.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Relieve the pressure at the test fitting. Take the cap off, put a rag all around it and push in the center part of the valve. You may get a little gas come out but it should remove any pressure. The way I drained my tank is, after getting the back of the car up on stands I disconnected the lines and found the one that goes to the bottom of the tank. Then I hooked a hose to it and siphoned the gas that way. Had a couple of 5 gallon containers underneath. Should be plenty of room if you have the car high enough.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

My fuel pump doesn't work correctly. I guess too less or uneven pressure. And after a bit of testing the pump stopped working... some hours later I could here it again.

Removing the line at the filter sounds good but it's more uncomfortable than using the line at the TBI. Is there something to be said against doing it this way?

As I guess there is no test fitting on a 3rd gen TBI. So this option won't work unfortunately.

Do I need a tool to siphon the gas?

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Do I need a tool to siphon the gas?

It could be a hand plastic siphon pump with a real small line. Your hand will have to get it going, then wait for it to drain.




WHAT EVER YOU DO, DON'T USE A PUMP THAT IS ELECTRICALLY OPERATED!! Sparks and fuel don't mix!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

There is a Schrader valve somewhere, I haven't seen a EFI setup yet that doesn't have one.

Your pump is not working incorrectly, its failing. When a pump begins to fail it can't keep up with pressure demands at the volume needed, you can see this with a fuel pressure gauge hooked up when driving. It may show the proper pressure at idle, but when load is applied it can't keep up.

Also, when failing they will stop working intermittently till it either cools down, or you hit the bottom of the tank with a wrench, then it might start again for a short while.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...der-valve.html

I don't drive anymore since some weeks, I was lucky to not have the car stopping on the highway... I managed to get home when it started stuttering also at idle.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

On TBI systems the fuel pressure bleeds down quickly, no worries about taking a gas shower. No Schrader valve either.

Can disconnect the soft line between the frame and engine for a fuel outlet.

RBob.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Wow. I'm stunned that there isn't one. I've never see an EFI system without.

RS-Chevy-SS

None of the TBI thirdgens have a valve or test port. That is why we have to buy special adapters to put in between fuel lines to test pressure.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

What / Where exactly is the "soft line"? Should this look like a "rubber" hose?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes, rubber hose with crimped on Saginaw o-ring fittings to connect to the hard lines. The larger of the two is the feed from the tank.

RBob.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

I got it, thanks, I put a thick cloth under it, now the cloth is soaked with fuel. Where should I put it now? I'm a bit afraid because I don't know what could and what could not cause an explosion or so...

I have temporarily tightened the nut again. Need a new gas can. The rubber hose is quite short and if I fully loosen the nut, I guess that there will be more gas coming out... also from the TBI-side... how should I proceed?

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

Rbob said it, the TBI system is not designed to hold pressure, there is a feed and a return line, only a small amount of gas should be expelled from the rubber line when disconnected, put that line in a bucket and keep cycling the key until the rest of the gas is expelled

i personally used one of these, it worked wonders, got 10 gallons out of my tank in about 15 minutes of pumping without undoing any lineshttp://www.walmart.com/ip/Custom-Acc...-Pump/16767856

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Be sure to loosen the gas cap to relieve any tank pressure build up.

RBob.

RS-Chevy-SS

Also with motor running, pull fuse from FP to get any excessive fuel, pressure burned/bled off.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hi, the car has been sitting for some weeks now. Before that I tried to turn on the enigne a few times. Sometimes it worked (for a short time), sometimes it didn't work. So a lot of cranking and my battery is also far over 10 years old and I guess I won't be able to start the engine, even if the pump would work.

I'll pull off the gas cap, but as I wrote, today I already loosened the fuel line at a connection and got a cloth soaked, so I guess there won't be a lot more pressure to relieve or fuel to come out. I only need a gas can... Hope the fuel pump will work long enough to pump all the gas out (the tank is completely full).

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Oh gosh... this "rubber" hose is too short... how should I put it into a canister, there's not enough room in the engine compartment. What shall I do? Thought about buying a rubber hose and put it over the other one...

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

I just don't see why we are taking days trying to reinvent the wheel here. People have been siphoning gas tanks since cars were invented. I'll do it when I need a gallon for mowing and don't want to go to the station.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

your funny Joe!

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Well, I need such a siphon pump... and I can't get one locally here in Switzerland. Would have to order one which takes another few days.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Thomas....have you checked the auto parts stores, department store like KMart, Wal-mart, or the like? Its a simple 10 dollar hand siphon pump

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

...

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

I live in Switzerland... we don't have Wal-mart. But as you say it, maybe there is such a store around here. I might check that... I just thought using the fuel pump is the smarter way. I'd only need a hose that fits...

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

That looks easy I need a hose anyway... AND I really don't want no gas in my mouth. So maybe if I can get such a siphon pump...

Thanks for the video!

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Check out Joe Tag's video above then

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Going to delete the vid and post so it doesn't cause a ruckus, but it really isn't that complicated.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Ok no problem.

But one last question: Using the siphon method can I drain the tank as much as with using the fuel pum?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

May not get as much out, but it will make it light enough to handle for removal. You can drain it through the sending unit hole once it's out to make it even lighter for putting back in. A siphon pump is obviously the safest way to do this. There is more than one way to skin a cat though.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

This just in from Fox news....... A man in Switzerland, Thomas Stahel, was rushed to the hospital for a poisoning caused by trying to siphon his gas tank for a fuel pump change. The town was set on fire in the process....more to come.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Be nice, Joe!

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Just playing around and pointing out precautions should be taken. I amuse myself more than others sometimes.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

It's cool. I was actually ROTF LMAO!

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hey, you made my day... I was imagining turning on the TV and watching the report about myself in hospital.

But well, maybe you can speak out the precautions so that it won't all get out of hand...

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

If you use a thin clear tube that's long enough you should be able to siphon it without a pump. Once you can see it and how fast it's moving you can judge when to get out of the way. lol
Practice with a tub of water first.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

If you have no other option but to siphon as I told you in the PM: Try a few times with a bucket of water on a chair or similar level with the hose going over the back rest and get a feel for how much draw it takes to get it to flow. If it doesn't work the first try raise the hose up so all of the gas in the line goes back in the tank and try again. Have an extinguisher ready. Have your battery disconnected. Don't do this in an enclosed area especially if there is a water heater or other ignition source. Gas vapors are heavy and will stay at floor level. Clean up any spilled gas. Hammering and dropped tools can cause sparks. Clear hose as scorpner just said is a good idea.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Well I got a manual siphon pump today... a similar one to that in the picture above.

I'm working in my parking lot outside, so no heater or any other ignition source. Hm okay, I will disconnect the battery. I don't have an extinguisher, though. But I don't understand, when I fill up gas at the gas station, I don't have to disconnect the battery, nor do I personally have an extinguisher ready. In earlier days I had a moped... sometimes I cleaned the carburator... just splashed the content in the soil. Never had any issues... but I'm aware of that it's dangerous, sure. I just don't get the point what's the difference between getting gas at a gas station out of the hose and the reverse thing. I even spilled some gas at the gas station... all the stations are sill there ;-)

How do you clean spilled gas? Where I'm working there are grass paving blocks, so the gas will be absorbed quite immediately. If there's a little bit of gas on the ground (absorbed quickly) how long will there be dangerous vapors near the ground respectively how long will it take for the vapours to evaporate?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Every gas station has an extinguisher, at least it's mandatory in the U.S. I was telling you ultimate precautions to take. Just be aware you are working with dangerous stuff here. People set themselves on fire from static discharge at the pumps. You should be ok working in the parking lot. Use cat litter or sand to absorb gas. Use common sense and be careful is all I was saying. It may be a 1/1000 chance, but who wants to be that 1?

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Yep, gas stations have absorbent and probably a special container and disposal procedure or something like that. I've even seen videos of some that have foam that drops down from above. The people that work there are also quite a ways away so they can call the fire department etc. Tanks are built to vent off pressure and extinguish the flame. A plastic can does not. The station spigot has an automatic shut off, your hose will not. You are the shut off mechanism and if anything happens to you, it can continue to run out and create a real hazard. The codes/rules for a gas stations are mostly an accumulation of previous accidents and lessons learned over years.

Yep, dumping a small amount in the soil is better than putting it in a garbage can. Back in the day people here used to use gasoline to kill weeds. If you end up with a lot of dirty fuel you'll need to find a proper way to get rid of it. We have places here for that and I'm assuming you do too.

I can tell you what I know but I'm sure it's not everything there is. Take some time to do some research on the dangers so you have it in your head what precautions you need to take and what responses you'll make if something does happen. Any of us would hate to tell you something and then something else unusual happens outside of the box where you'd have to think on your own on the spot.

Also, Google flash point of materials for fuel on the ground etc.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Amen to that. I really don't want my post said in jest to be an eerie premonition.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hi together

I'm writing to you lying in a hospital bed... I'm well so far, 5 litres are already out of my car... I'll have to see how the rest of it will find its way to the cans ;-)

Seriously... the first 5 litres are in the can... I only have a 5 litres can. The hose of my siphon pump is a bit small in diameter so it took over 5 minutes to get these 5 litres out. Still around 45 litres in there. So far anything worked out fine.

How can I clean the hose from the gas? Or is it enough to just let it dry?

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Good deal....just have patience. Just hang the hose when done and let it drip dry/ evaporate. You'll be fine

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Well, now I'm thinking about when I have to open the tank (take out the sending unit) and loosen the fuel lines in order to get the tank out. There will be more fuel coming out when I loosen the lines... that's not as easy to catch... should I use a cloth and let the rest just drip on the ground? Also when I have to ramle with the tank to get it out, won't there be more fuel coming out of the taken-off lines?

And when I exchange the fuel pump, everything will still be "full" of gas and inside the tank (with most of the gas siphoned) there will also be fuel vapours... in all the instructions to change the fuel pump there wasn't any mentioning of safety problems during the process.. what should I consider?

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

When you take the lines off you will have some drippage of fuel. Just have some rags to help keep things from getting sloppy. The amount will not be like liters. Once tank is out, and fuel sending unit/pump is out, just shake it over a bucket and let it drain, if any. If you have to take it back to the store for a core deposit, just rinse it with water and dry it off. I never knew there was a core for old sending units/fuel pumps. Just don't do it near open flames or in a garage with a water heater sitting near by.
Really, you'll be fine.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

If you stopped getting gas from the line rotate it in the neck and push in pull out until you can blow in it and get bubbles in the tank again. IDK about tanks with a pump in them, but my car will gravity feed through the line once you take it off under the car. I used an air hose with a small shot in the line to blow fuel back in the tank and clear the lines to lose the siphon.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys... using my siphon pump I got about 30 litres out of my tank. So there's still another 20 litres inside. I got another hose and put it over the fuel-line hose in the engine compartment. I jacked the front of the car and put the hose inside a can. Then I engaged my fuel pump, which still works. Unfortunately I only got about 2-3 litres, then the pump would continue but no fuel anymore. Thinking about it, I thought that jacking the front up quite high could have been the problem. So I wanted you to ask whether this could be the reason or not when still having about 20 litres in the tank.

I don't have another opinion than jacking the back and disconnecting the fuel line at the filter. Hope the last 20 litres or so will find their way into my can. I don't wanna have to handle 20 kilos when trying to get the tank out.

RFmaster

The density of gasoline ranges from 0.71–0.77 kg/L. Get longer section of 9mm (3/8") tubing and siphon remaining gasoline. You'll always have some left in the tank - just be ready for it!

//RF