New here with an Odd project
#1
New here with an Odd project
I hope posting here is OK. I joined this forum just for the TBI section as it seems to be the best on the net. I am helping my room mate with her project which is an extention of something I started long ago. She has a 1988 Buick Hearse with a 350 Oldsmobile engine we are going to convert to TBI. We will be using a MegaSquirt computer, 454 TBI with 80lbs injectors, on an Edelbrock Performer Intake with a converter plate for the spreadbore intake. We will be doing all the wiring and new sensors. I hope to get the in tank sending unit.fuel pump aparatus from a 90's whale body wagon. Then running a Walbro 255 fuel pump. We will also be running a Spectre air hat and Cold air intake to the fender all enclosed. Her car already has true dual exhaust and a Mallory UniLite distributor. For now we are just looking to get it running better than it does with the crappy Q-jet and to get better MPG's out of it as it is her daily driver. But later on we will be looking to get more power out of it. Maybe to start an adjustable regulator. A few questions. One would the stock fuel and return lines be ok for fuel injection pressures? They are stock steel units. Also I plan on using AN fittings and wire braided hose to get the fuel to the TBI from the steel lines so what fittings would I need to connect to the TBI? Would I connect into there the stock steel lines would go or unscrew those fittings and go directly into the TBI? Thanx for any and all help.
#2
Re: New here with an Odd project
First Guess: You'll save time, money, effort, enthusiasm, and headaches by grabbing a TBI system from a 350 Chevy and adapting it to the 350 Olds, including the in-tank sending unit and ECM. The only difficult part would be the distributor wiring and the manifold-to-TBI spacer. If there's hood clearance, the best you could do there is to use an OEM TBI-to-manifold adapter from an early TBI 454.
I wouldn't expect a hearse to need high-rpm power, therefore it's unlikely you'll need a monster fuel pump or big-block injectors. That hearse would value low-to-midrange torque, though.
That "crappy Q-Jet" is among the better ones ever produced. You don't want it...I'll pay shipping. Good luck getting much in the way of improved fuel economy over a properly-functioning Q-jet.
Spectre air hat and cold air intake? That car already has cold air intake, although it's in the form of a stock, boring air cleaner housing and fabric tube; and it would need to have one vacuum hose removed and plugged. It may not fit the TBI unit, though, so I'd be sure to grab the air cleaner and cold-air ducting from the donor vehicle.
Second Guess: You can convert the hearse to TBI using 350 Chevy take-off parts for half the dollar amount you would by buying all those un-needed aftermarket "bling' parts.
Third Guess: Fix the Q-jet and you won't be tempted to install all the TBI stuff. The Q-Jet is a world-class carb when calibrated to the engine, and working properly.
I wouldn't expect a hearse to need high-rpm power, therefore it's unlikely you'll need a monster fuel pump or big-block injectors. That hearse would value low-to-midrange torque, though.
That "crappy Q-Jet" is among the better ones ever produced. You don't want it...I'll pay shipping. Good luck getting much in the way of improved fuel economy over a properly-functioning Q-jet.
Spectre air hat and cold air intake? That car already has cold air intake, although it's in the form of a stock, boring air cleaner housing and fabric tube; and it would need to have one vacuum hose removed and plugged. It may not fit the TBI unit, though, so I'd be sure to grab the air cleaner and cold-air ducting from the donor vehicle.
Second Guess: You can convert the hearse to TBI using 350 Chevy take-off parts for half the dollar amount you would by buying all those un-needed aftermarket "bling' parts.
Third Guess: Fix the Q-jet and you won't be tempted to install all the TBI stuff. The Q-Jet is a world-class carb when calibrated to the engine, and working properly.
#3
Re: New here with an Odd project
First Guess: You'll save time, money, effort, enthusiasm, and headaches by grabbing a TBI system from a 350 Chevy and adapting it to the 350 Olds, including the in-tank sending unit and ECM. The only difficult part would be the distributor wiring and the manifold-to-TBI spacer. If there's hood clearance, the best you could do there is to use an OEM TBI-to-manifold adapter from an early TBI 454.
I wouldn't expect a hearse to need high-rpm power, therefore it's unlikely you'll need a monster fuel pump or big-block injectors. That hearse would value low-to-midrange torque, though.
That "crappy Q-Jet" is among the better ones ever produced. You don't want it...I'll pay shipping. Good luck getting much in the way of improved fuel economy over a properly-functioning Q-jet.
Spectre air hat and cold air intake? That car already has cold air intake, although it's in the form of a stock, boring air cleaner housing and fabric tube; and it would need to have one vacuum hose removed and plugged. It may not fit the TBI unit, though, so I'd be sure to grab the air cleaner and cold-air ducting from the donor vehicle.
Second Guess: You can convert the hearse to TBI using 350 Chevy take-off parts for half the dollar amount you would by buying all those un-needed aftermarket "bling' parts.
Third Guess: Fix the Q-jet and you won't be tempted to install all the TBI stuff. The Q-Jet is a world-class carb when calibrated to the engine, and working properly.
I wouldn't expect a hearse to need high-rpm power, therefore it's unlikely you'll need a monster fuel pump or big-block injectors. That hearse would value low-to-midrange torque, though.
That "crappy Q-Jet" is among the better ones ever produced. You don't want it...I'll pay shipping. Good luck getting much in the way of improved fuel economy over a properly-functioning Q-jet.
Spectre air hat and cold air intake? That car already has cold air intake, although it's in the form of a stock, boring air cleaner housing and fabric tube; and it would need to have one vacuum hose removed and plugged. It may not fit the TBI unit, though, so I'd be sure to grab the air cleaner and cold-air ducting from the donor vehicle.
Second Guess: You can convert the hearse to TBI using 350 Chevy take-off parts for half the dollar amount you would by buying all those un-needed aftermarket "bling' parts.
Third Guess: Fix the Q-jet and you won't be tempted to install all the TBI stuff. The Q-Jet is a world-class carb when calibrated to the engine, and working properly.
#4
Re: New here with an Odd project
If Megasquirt works with the 7-pin module, an OEM Delco distributor is a drop-in. I don't know Megasquirt, though.
If using the TBI computer, the 8-pin module might be preferable. It's certainly compatible, since that's how GM configured the TBI vehicles to begin with. A person could also get wild and one-off an Olds version of the Chevy TBI distributor; that way the pickup coil, ignition coil, cap and rotor would be "TBI authentic". Not as hard as might be thought at first--the GM TBI distributors used a cast-aluminum shaft housing with a stamped-aluminum plate on top. Easy enough to grab the plate from a Chevy distributor and secure it to a modified Olds housing. Cut down a Chevy TBI distributor shaft to Olds length and add some bushings to return the shaft to 0.491 diameter...Wallah! TBI Olds distributor.
There's probably aftermarket distributors that would be compatible with various designs of fuel injection also.
Because in the context YOU presented, they all made sense. Not my fault that the context YOU presented was overly-simplified and incomplete.
As always: The responses you receive from your forum post will need to be filtered and processed by you. Take what you like, leave the rest.
Last edited by Schurkey; 04-24-2015 at 07:04 PM.
#5
Re: New here with an Odd project
Hating carburetors is not the same as wanting Fuel Injection. Your reference to the "crappy Q-Jet" says a lot about your experiences and biases. What I said is still true: Good luck getting much improvement over a PROPERLY FUNCTIONING and nicely-calibrated Q-Jet. The issue at hand is how close to "properly functioning and nicely-calibrated" is the Q-jet in question.
Kinda depends on the FI system. I'd have started with the typical 7-pin "computer controlled" module HEI; perhaps with a conversion to the newer 8-pin HEI module, as used on the OEM TBI systems, moved to a separate heat-sink outside the distributor--and properly shielded from the elements.
If Megasquirt works with the 7-pin module, an OEM Delco distributor is a drop-in. I don't know Megasquirt, though.
If using the TBI computer, the 8-pin module might be preferable. It's certainly compatible, since that's how GM configured the TBI vehicles to begin with. A person could also get wild and one-off an Olds version of the Chevy TBI distributor; that way the pickup coil, ignition coil, cap and rotor would be "TBI authentic". Not as hard as might be thought at first--the GM TBI distributors used a cast-aluminum shaft housing with a stamped-aluminum plate on top. Easy enough to grab the plate from a Chevy distributor and secure it to a modified Olds housing. Cut down a Chevy TBI distributor shaft to Olds length and add some bushings to return the shaft to 0.491 diameter...Wallah! TBI Olds distributor.
There's probably aftermarket distributors that would be compatible with various designs of fuel injection also.
Don't you think it's unrealistic to 1)not mention any of that in your first post, then 2)get peeved when my reply doesn't take that into consideration?
Because in the context YOU presented, they all made sense. Not my fault that the context YOU presented was overly-simplified and incomplete.
As always: The responses you receive from your forum post will need to be filtered and processed by you. Take what you like, leave the rest.
Kinda depends on the FI system. I'd have started with the typical 7-pin "computer controlled" module HEI; perhaps with a conversion to the newer 8-pin HEI module, as used on the OEM TBI systems, moved to a separate heat-sink outside the distributor--and properly shielded from the elements.
If Megasquirt works with the 7-pin module, an OEM Delco distributor is a drop-in. I don't know Megasquirt, though.
If using the TBI computer, the 8-pin module might be preferable. It's certainly compatible, since that's how GM configured the TBI vehicles to begin with. A person could also get wild and one-off an Olds version of the Chevy TBI distributor; that way the pickup coil, ignition coil, cap and rotor would be "TBI authentic". Not as hard as might be thought at first--the GM TBI distributors used a cast-aluminum shaft housing with a stamped-aluminum plate on top. Easy enough to grab the plate from a Chevy distributor and secure it to a modified Olds housing. Cut down a Chevy TBI distributor shaft to Olds length and add some bushings to return the shaft to 0.491 diameter...Wallah! TBI Olds distributor.
There's probably aftermarket distributors that would be compatible with various designs of fuel injection also.
Don't you think it's unrealistic to 1)not mention any of that in your first post, then 2)get peeved when my reply doesn't take that into consideration?
Because in the context YOU presented, they all made sense. Not my fault that the context YOU presented was overly-simplified and incomplete.
As always: The responses you receive from your forum post will need to be filtered and processed by you. Take what you like, leave the rest.
#6
Re: New here with an Odd project
The issue with the TBI is getting the little Olds to idle- and idle-transition properly when using big injectors. Has nothing to do with the size of the throttle bores.
How high are you going to rev this hearse engine? GM used the small throttle bodies on the 305s and 350s because that's all most of them ever needed based on how they were driven.
Fuel supply plumbing should be adequate for TBI except for the existing rubber hoses and clamps which MUST MUST MUST be replaced with higher-pressure (fuel injection-rated) hose and hose clamps. This assumes that the metal tubing isn't rusted, kinked, or otherwise damaged, and can be adapted to the new in-tank sending unit/fuel pump hanger. I don't actually expect problems there.
The return side will need full replacement. I expect it is 1/4" tubing and the OEM TBI installations used 5/16, I think. Anyway, the return plumbing is almost certainly too small and restrictive.
I've debated how best to connect OEM fuel plumbing to repositioned/aftermarket TBI unit; and I still haven't solved my dilemma. The TBI unit is--or can be converted--to pipe thread. I'm thinking of using pipe-thread to 37-degree flare fittings, 37 degree flare hose ends on Teflon-liner hose, connecting to 37-degree flare fittings that clamp directly to the metal tubing using a ferrule.
Then I step back and ask if I'm really comfortable with a ferrule compression fitting on a pressurized gasoline system. Some days I am, some day's I'm not.
Last edited by Schurkey; 04-25-2015 at 01:41 PM.
#7
Re: New here with an Odd project
That Q-Jet should be an 800 cfm unit. It's a terrible, horrible carburetor. Put it in a box and send it to me. I'll save you from it.
The issue with the TBI is getting the little Olds to idle- and idle-transition properly when using big injectors. Has nothing to do with the size of the throttle bores.
How high are you going to rev this hearse engine? GM used the small throttle bodies on the 305s and 350s because that's all most of them ever needed based on how they were driven.
Fuel supply plumbing should be adequate for TBI except for the existing rubber hoses and clamps which MUST MUST MUST be replaced with higher-pressure (fuel injection-rated) hose and hose clamps. This assumes that the metal tubing isn't rusted, kinked, or otherwise damaged, and can be adapted to the new in-tank sending unit/fuel pump hanger. I don't actually expect problems there.
The return side will need full replacement. I expect it is 1/4" tubing and the OEM TBI installations used 5/16, I think. Anyway, the return plumbing is almost certainly too small and restrictive.
I've debated how best to connect OEM fuel plumbing to repositioned/aftermarket TBI unit; and I still haven't solved my dilemma. The TBI unit is--or can be converted--to pipe thread. I'm thinking of using pipe-thread to 37-degree flare fittings, 37 degree flare hose ends on Teflon-liner hose, connecting to 37-degree flare fittings that clamp directly to the metal tubing using a ferrule.
Then I step back and ask if I'm really comfortable with a ferrule compression fitting on a pressurized gasoline system. Some days I am, some day's I'm not.
The issue with the TBI is getting the little Olds to idle- and idle-transition properly when using big injectors. Has nothing to do with the size of the throttle bores.
How high are you going to rev this hearse engine? GM used the small throttle bodies on the 305s and 350s because that's all most of them ever needed based on how they were driven.
Fuel supply plumbing should be adequate for TBI except for the existing rubber hoses and clamps which MUST MUST MUST be replaced with higher-pressure (fuel injection-rated) hose and hose clamps. This assumes that the metal tubing isn't rusted, kinked, or otherwise damaged, and can be adapted to the new in-tank sending unit/fuel pump hanger. I don't actually expect problems there.
The return side will need full replacement. I expect it is 1/4" tubing and the OEM TBI installations used 5/16, I think. Anyway, the return plumbing is almost certainly too small and restrictive.
I've debated how best to connect OEM fuel plumbing to repositioned/aftermarket TBI unit; and I still haven't solved my dilemma. The TBI unit is--or can be converted--to pipe thread. I'm thinking of using pipe-thread to 37-degree flare fittings, 37 degree flare hose ends on Teflon-liner hose, connecting to 37-degree flare fittings that clamp directly to the metal tubing using a ferrule.
Then I step back and ask if I'm really comfortable with a ferrule compression fitting on a pressurized gasoline system. Some days I am, some day's I'm not.
I will have to check the return line size. The hoses will all be replaced. The intake unit will be replaced with a later Whale body wagon unit so that is easy. But I would not use a ferrule compression fitting with fuel injection. I just wouldn't trust it. To much to loose.
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