Want_a_v8

hi all, i'm a 16 y/o looking for a good first car( not a Japanese beater). i originally was looking into 305/5 speed irocs and trans ams(want a stick), but insurance quotes are much to high. i then remembered that the rs camaros and base firebirds had the tbi 305, which was also available with a 5 speed. does anyone know on average what i might be paying? i would be under my parents insurance. i also have a fallback plan of a Monte Carlo (b pillar classifies as a 2 dr sedan, cheaper insurance) an el camino (half truck, cheaper insurance) or lastly, a miata( apparently one of the cheapest cars to insure) i want to get into working on engines, and my dad had a modded 89 iroc vert, so ill have that knowledge, but i also want to get into auto xing, but i'd rather have a 3rd gen or g body than a miata for that, because every kid and his mother race in those, as good as they are for the purpose. what i'm trying to say here is: is the tbi a good starter car (only 170 hp) and how expensive will it be to insure under my parents with me as the driver? if the tbi is still too much, what about a v6? thanks! (i'm new here and haven't found much on searching)

Zane M

iTrader: (1)

I don't have specific numbers, but I doubt going with a RS with a TBI V8 is going to make much of a difference in your insurance vs. The IROC or Trans Am. Being a new driver, you are going to get raked over the coals insuring a V8 "sports car".
The V6 models may get you a better rate.
I am actually surprised you have heard that a Miata is one of the cheapest to insure. I would think with the relative lack of crash protection, and only being a two seater, that you would get hit harder for "sports car" status.

Want_a_v8

i figured as much as well, but i figured its worth a try. with the miata, i went on some of their forums, and several people had posted questions about it. apparently because it is a car bought more by older people nowadays, that the crash rating is lower, most are garage kept, so theft is lower, and due to being small cars, are less likely to cause great damage to an average sized vehicle. everything i saw was saying that they were cheaper to insure than most average cars (ie hondas toyotas, etc) and cheaper than most pickups, which are cheap to insure. back to the f bodies though, would getting a v6 and swapping it for say a 5.3 ls, an lt1 or a tpi 5.7, keep the v6 rates because being a classic, where i live it doesn't really need an inspection? (goes off vin #)

AmpleUnicorn88

I don't know about the area you live in. but in Phoenix, they keep conjuring up strict laws for drivers under 21. I believe now that if you aren't at least 18, you can only have one other passenger in your car while you are driving. I won't say that is for sure what the law is, but that is what I am hearing from kids that age that I run across.
So a miata would limit the amount of passengers you could have, so maybe they take that into account now? I don't know, i'm not an insurance professional.

I was pretty much slammed with rates with my first few vehicles. Honestly, if you like the car, and can afford it, get it. I don't know what your financial situation is, but if you are asking about it here it comes across as it is a breaking point for you, so it might be best to go with something along the lines of a small sedan.
When I was that age, I lived at home and I paid for my stuff, but was under my parents plans as well. I think my insurance rates were over $200. I had a lifted 90's 4Runner and then a lifted 90's half ton dodge truck for the first few years of driving, and they were both over $200 to ensure for me. I think it took until I turned 25 for it really to come down significantly.

But hey, if you can afford the insurance, then I say go for it. These are great cars to get into and a great learning tool (whether you know a lot or not). No matter what you get at your age, you will be screwed on rates.

dbrochard

iTrader: (3)

I'm 16 too, 91 305 TBI t top 5 speed is going to be $1600 a year with discounts if I have good grades

Want_a_v8

We have the same thing with the passenger limit but as long as a parent is In the car it's as many as fit lol. And as to the situation as of money I'm no where near rich but at the same time I'm not terribly poor, and I do plan on getting a job soon. As to my g body question, even though this is the wrong forum, does anyone know about those, because I have always liked elkys and I think a good monte Carlo is pretty slick when done right. The only gripe I have with those are the 200r4 bring the only trans available in the newest years. I'm not exactly an expert but wouldn't an lt1 t56 bolt up to the engine and then a new crossmember and some pedals etc. Would that be a terribly difficult swap? Wrong forum entirely but like I said... I'm new here

Formula 305

I wanted a 3rd gen when I was 16 too, but I decided to go with something more practical, then I bought my 3rd gen. 25+ year old sports car really practical for your first car?

Also nobody autocrosses 3rdgens. There really isn't an SCCA autocross class that's good for these cars, so if you do autoX, you're either going to be in a class by yourself or you're going to be in a weird class that will probably have cars that are way faster than yours. If you just want to have fun, go for it. If you want to competitively autoX this isn't the car to do it with. I've autocrossed a few times. One time I was in a class with 4 Corvette's, another time I was literally the only car in that class....

Another point to note, can you live with a car that is going to break down when it's least convenient? Or do you want a car you can just hit the key & drive when you need to go to work or school or your girlfriends house. Any car this old is going to need frequent repairs, and sometime parts are getting somewhat hard to find (especially any T5 specific parts)

Also, fuel. Gas is cheap now, but it may not stay that way. When it was $4/gal I wished I had something that got more than 20mpg.

EDIT: I'm not sure what your climate is like, but these cars aren't going to be the best in the snow, people do it, but I wouldn't.

2nd EDIT: I keep thinking of more stuff I want to add, once you have insurance on 1 car, the second car is basically free to insure. When I put my firebird on my existing policy with my Jeep the overall policy rate changed like $10/month or something, so basically the car cost me $120/year to insure (no collision, only liability & comp)

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

The reason Miatas are cheap to insure is because they are slow compared to a V8 car.More like a 2.8 V6 Camaro.

shugart111

im in texas and my miata was more expensive to insure then my lo3 firebird or hell even my 91 302/ t5 fox body mustang. Also as someone who loves miatas, i wouldn't recommend one as your only car they make much better 2nd or 3rd car.

Want_a_v8

i dont know the engine codes too well for the 305s, i just know that for third gen, they came as either carburated, tbi or tpi, that is unless lo3 is a v6, but i believe thats something different. anyways, im assuming the reason is because being a miata, its a smaller call, less storage, less passengers, etc. although im more of a muscle guy over imports, i still think a nicely taken care of miata can look and preform well, but this is 3g.org not a miata forum lol, i just said that it was a possibility. a miata or a small pick up are my fallbacks, as id much rather have an f or g body, or a corvette, heck, even a foxbody over those

Formula 305

LO3 is the engine code for the turd 305 TBI, 170HP, 255FT-LBS.

Want_a_v8

Thanks. I know almost all the 3rd gen 305 horsepower and torque ratings just not the engine codes. Can't you squeeze some more power by dumping the restrictive stock exhaust and getting a free flow one? Also does anyone know about what a lt1 cam would do for power with supporting mods?

shugart111

My lo3 auto went from a 16.5 to a 15.4 with just headers and exhaust injectors and open element . I'd imagine with a lt1 cam and good tune and Some gears you would have no problem getting into the 14s

Formula 305

If he's worried about the cost of insurance more power is the LAST thing this kid needs. Remember, nothing will drive up your insurance costs like speeding tickets & other moving violations!

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Not to burst your bubble but a poorly built (lets be honest guys) 25+ year old car will have you spending more time buying parts than driving it. A "Japanese beater" will make for a more reliable first car than a 3rd gen.


IMHO you'd be better off getting a reliable first car (be it an import or domestic) and as money allows saving up for a project car that you might have running/ready to insure by the time you get out of college.


Buzzkill, I know, but it's practical advice.


Or you could buy a thirdgen, get raped on insurance rates, and spend all of your (assuming you're working?) part-time money on parts each week until you go to college (where you won't have time to work on it). The car sits mostly untouched for 4-5 years and when you graduate you get the joy of replacing stuff all over again all the while trying to pay off student loans, etc. etc..


no fun.

Want_a_v8

I'm a fairly responsible kid thank you. I wouldnt go crazy with the burnouts and drifting crap like the people who think they're rednecks and my school. I'm only concerned about insurance because I don't want to get a $2500-3000 dollar car and have insurance want me paying a crap ton of money for a base model. As for a cam, I wouldn't do anything internally other than gaskets and such for a year or two, and as it is, my dad's current car is faster than a stock tpi 305 in the 1/4 so... I don't want a bat out of hell fast kind of car, just something that looks good, sounds good and has ok performance. I can almost guarantee I won't be speeding or driving recklessly because if I do, my mom would kill me and sell my car lol. That's also why I want a car that would be ok and fun on say a racetrack because there are some not too far away. I would have my fun there... Legally, rather than street racing and stuff.

Want_a_v8

We already have 2 reliable cars, I just want my car to be a bit of a project, and I expect to be fixing it up and I would most likely use it during college, so long as I get a fairly reliable example, such as a tbi, because from what I understand they get decent mileage for a v8, and the throttle body injected motors are fairly predictable and usually run well. My dad said that his friend had one in the 90s that lasted up to something crazy like 230k miles before it crapped out. Also, I live only like 4 miles from my school and I do xc so if need be I could run or walk there no problem. I want a car that needs to be worked on, as I love using my hands and building / fixing stuff and I love challenges like that. I know that a turn key car would make more sense but that's not really what I want, and like I said we have 2 of those already. Thanks

Formula 305

Yea ok bud.... I was 16 not that long ago & you're not fooling me. Sooner or later you're going to speed & do burnouts & ****, we all did it. And for F### sakes! Your user name is Want_A_V8 & you're trying to convince me you aren't going to do dumb stuff? You can lie to yourself, but you aren't fooling me

Want_a_v8

My username was that because yes , I want a v8, but not because I want to screw around. I want one because I like the idea of having a cool American car more than that of having a normal car. If the v6s of the era werent anemic I would get one, hence the reason I was considering the 3.8 fourth gen, just to have the look of a cool car. If you've noticed, in all of my posts, I only talk about the base 305s and v6s as a possibility because they are the base models. I didn't ask a question to get yelled at, told I'm lying to myself, and if that's what you think then that's you're opinion. Thanks for the input but if you were more polite that would be great. I have a respect for cars, and I guarantee you would agree that you would be more likely to treat a nicer car better than a cheap one. I didn't come here to get in a fight, I just came for ADVICE, and if you're going to get mad, please don't post. Thank you

Formula 305

I am giving you advice, take it if you want. I know you better than you know yourself because I was just like you. You want a cool car because deep down you're a car guy, you may not know it yet, but you will probably build an emotional bond with your cars, & sooner or later, your emotions are going to tell you to do something dumb, & you probably are going to listen. You can give me your attitude if you want, i really don't care either way, but 16 year olds are stupid, every last one of 'em, I was stupid when I was 16, I'm sure RedLeader289 would agree that they probably did some stupid stuff when they were that age too. There are so many things you haven't experienced & don't know yet, but I'm telling you, this is how it's gonna happen.

With that, if you don't want me posting on your thread anymore that's fine, I'll leave you be to make your own mistakes because that's the only way 16 year olds learn, because they don't believe adults when we tell you how its gonna be, because we've already been there.

Want_a_v8

Oh I already know I am. I love all things cars, and can name most of the specs of any decent car on the road, how fast, power year made, engine, etc. And I do get what you're saying, but it's just that they way you're coming across to me seems rude, I know you've been my age already, and that you may have done some of the things you stated but that doesn't mean I will. I appreciate you're advice. Really I do, and I will take any I can get. It's alright if you post just please don't assume when you don't know me, or my family, so thank you for your input

Ghettobird52

When i was 17 (in 2008) my first car was a 88 firebird 5.0TBI/700r4 and the insurance was $105 a month liability only. Fast forward 8 years, now its $22 a month

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

when I was 16 I bought a beat up 86 Trans Am 305 tpi/auto for $1000 (still have it). about 2 months after finally getting it registered the transmission went. I ended up putting a rebuilt one in myself and paid about $1200 for the rebuilt trans. My insurance was $250 a month since I was so young. within the first year of owning it I put a lot of money into it just to get it to run and drive ok. every month something else broke or was acting up. luckily I had a job that brought home around $450 a week so I was able to afford it. Did all the work myself to save money. Now that I'm 19 I still have the car and it runs and drives fine. only issue now is the TPI cold start up pita. I also have another car that I daily drive now and I pay $200 a month total for both cars insured. Never been in an accident and never got a ticket.

I wouldn't say these cars are great first cars because they're not practical but I'm very glad I got this car when I was 16 because it taught me so much about working on cars and how each system in a car functions. I consider it about $4000 worth of education

AmpleUnicorn88

Let me give you some advice that I forgot to give earlier and I don't know if anybody else has mentioned it yet, and I feel stupid for not mentioning it before...call insurance companies and get a quote over the phone. Just randomly find a third gen for sale and give them the information from that and see what they. Call around to a bunch of different ones to price it all out. That will give you a better answer than the rest of us can.

I have seen some advice on here that I don't think is necessarily bad or wrong, but I would disagree with. My 88 Camaro, which looked like it was in a junkyard when I bought both inside and out, has only needed a new clutch and water pump. Everything else I have done because I wanted to. And I have it owned it for almost a year. I have probably $6000 in parts alone on it but it didn't need it to drive. Honestly, at 16, just having a car is awesome. I come from a rich city and everybody was getting brand new cars or their parents beamers or hummer H2's(which don't count as real vehicles but that's an entire separate discussion), and I bought some old 1990 4Runner for $3500. It couldn't get out of its own way but hey' it at least moved. I liked it though and wanted something like that, so I got it.
Any used car has the potential to need a lot of fixing. Or, it could go many years with just regular maintenance. So many variables to account for. The third gen camaros are certainly one of the easiest vehicles I have ever worked on, and one of the cheapest to fix as well. Some might disagree with these 2 but that has been my experience. There literally hasn't been a job yet on these cars that I haven't been able to tackle by myself or with a friend's help.I would say if you have absolutely no mechanical skills at all, the nicer more reliable car for what you can afford, the better. If you don't have tools that's another issue as well. You don't have to be like me (or I'm sure a lot of people on here) and get hardcore with your tools. A simple toolset will get you through 3/4 of the jobs that you'll do.and those can be had for next to nothing up to hundreds of dollars depending on which one you get. I am very picky on my tools. I buy mostly craftsman tools because I grew up on them and my dad still has most of the tools he had as a kid today in working order. However, craftsman outsourced to China awhile back and I'm not sure what if anything they make is made in USA anymore, so any of the newer tools from them being sold as USA are probably overstock from when they were still producing. That's what I shop around for. I spend more time shopping for tools because of this than cars or car parts because it's getting harder and harder to find USA made tools. But occasionally they pop up at stores so I ****** them. A lot of tools made in Tawain seem to be pretty decent so I have some other brands and some craftsman tawian stuff.

But anyways now that I have gone off on a tangent, if you have the time, and money, most of the problems you run into will probably have YouTube video explaining how to fix it. Otherwise, this forum is your new best friend. A lot of people on here are very experienced and know these cars down to the sheet metal, and when I have run into some confusing things, people on here have helped me greatly.

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

off topic discussion about Craftsman outsourcing to China. Last week I spent a couple hours last night trying to find out how easy it was to find New Old Stock USA Craftsman tools in stores. I was really interested in this big 311 piece craftsman set until I saw, "Made in China." any recomendations for finding American made Craftsman tools? I'm going to some pawn shops soon to look for older craftsman tools already.

ploegi

You more than likely won't find any that were made in the USA anymore, unless you get lucky at a garage sale, or some such.

The only tools that are made in the US any more, or basically Snap-On, (but, not the bluepoint line), and some Kobalt tools. (Lowes.)

Ghettobird52

AmpleUnicorn88 gave some great points that i should of stated as well. My 3rd gen F-body is what taught me how to wrench on cars, how to have some patience and take your time. It also seriously made me into the car guy i am today.

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

That's what I've been thinking but I've read many people online get lucky but that was a couple years ago so they're definitely all gone. I've been really liking this wrench set at work made by s-k but the pricing is too much, same for Proto which I also enjoy. I know craftsman used to be American quality on a budget but I just can't support them and give them my money for their Chinese tools that are a step below harbor freights Pittsburgh line. Also never was a fan of kobalt. Snap on is nice but expensive, I know you get your money's worth for how dependable they are but I just can't spend the money on expensive tools at the moment. Thanks for the info, sorry for derailing the thread. Still good info for the original poster on tools if he decides to get into the car repair lifestyle lol

ploegi

Yeah, Snap-On tools are nice, but, I still think they are overpriced by about a factor of 3. 30 bucks for a screwdriver is just stupid. For that price, it better take the screws out for me, just at a suggestion......

AmpleUnicorn88

Hopefully the PO won't mind me going into detail on the tool thing some more in this post.

We have a place called ACE hardware here in Arizona, and they are an authorized craftsmans seller. I remember researching tools online for months and I read that Craftsman outsourced to China years ago. They stopped making almost everything in the USA and they had a ton of surplus built up from production in the USA. So I'm willing to bet the tools that we are seeing for sale that are made in the USA craftsman are those left overs that never made it out to stores while they were still producing in the states. Me and my buddy both have picked up awesome craftsman sets for half off when sales are going on. They are USA. We RARELY buy non USA made tools. The toolsets have a higher probability of being made in USA because of the fact that they were probably stock piling them in wharehouses and the individual tools are ones that went quick because either lost some of their sets and were trying to complete them again, or they broke something or something failed and they are exchanging it under the lifetime warranty program. I would say about half the craftsman sets I see here are made in USA ones still. We do get lucky every now and then and find individual made in USA craftsman tools or small sets and we ****** them up immediately. Sears also has some made in USA ones occasionally as well. Most newer craftsman stuff is garbage from personal experience. I have broken extensions and sockets, as well as ratchets. Not a single made in USA craftsman tools broken or failed me yet. Another thing that can improve longevity of the ratchets is to take apart the ratcheting sections and clean all the grease off any apply marine or auto grade bearing grease and the ratchet will be smoother and not bind as much, and last a lot longer.

Made in Tawain are not that bad. I don't think I have had any major problems with Tawain made tools, and some craftsman stuff is made in Tawain. I recently bought a stubby 3/8" drive flew ratchet craftsman that's made in Tawain. It was an impulse buy but I figured there will come a time where I want a small ratchet that can bend also.

Snap-On is still made in USA. Well, most Snap-on. Some of their power tools and things like flashlights are made in China now. However, I bought this snap on rectangular LED light that has like 20 LED lights on it for $15 at a pep boys and it's probably the best portable light I have ever owned. It was made in China. I would say China made tools that are not going to have much torque applied will be ok. But I wouldn't trust a China made handtool even if it was Ron Paul that was giving it to me.

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

In all honesty the harbor freight Pittsburgh sockets and ratchets have been really good to me, had a cheap 64 piece socket set from them for 3 years now and it has done endless work on my thirdgen, ratchet feels nice and the sockets haven't broke or rounded a bolt yet. Now that set is on its way out because I did a repair in the rain and then didn't let the case dry out before I shut it and put it in my trunk, I'll regrease the ratchets and see how they are.

I really really really wanted to jump on the 300+ piece craftsman socket set for $190 at Sears but there's no way I could do it knowing that it's made in China. I refuse to support craftsman until "made in USA" starts showing up on their tools again.

Does anyone have any suggestions for American hand tools that don't cost as much as snap on/ Proto/ sk?

ploegi

Mack? Of course, I suspect they are as expensive as snappy.....

AmpleUnicorn88

From what I have researched, the Pittsburgh Pro line of tools is actually not half bad. Some auto mechanics starting out have used them and swear by them. Their non proline hand tools I wouldn't trust personally, but some people I'm sure are happy with them. I thought about getting their ratchet wrenches because they are made in Tawain, but they are in smaller sets. So I went with Kobalt ratchet wrenches which are made in tawain. My buddy has had them for over 6 months and they haven't failed yet. We have done a lot with them.

Finding a made in USA craftsman tool these days is hard. I did find a nice screwdriver set that is made in the USA a few months back by craftsman. I'd say his garage sales to find some.

The way I look at it is most hand tools are on par with each other these days because they are all made out of China or tawain for the most part. Their quality control isn't as good as it was back here in America. So even Snap-On's Blue Point tool line I wouldn't think would be day and night better than the Pittsburgh pro line tools made in tawain for 1/4 the cost.

If you aren't in a hurry, I'd frequent places in your area that sell craftsman tools and just check every spot for made in USA tools.

I think Snap-On is one of the very very few manufacturers left that make hand tools here still. I don't know much about Mac tools so I can't say for sure on that. Matco I believe has started outsourcing to China and Tawian as well. Snap-On tools are fantastic. That's what we got in the navy, and we did things to those tools that should broken them. Their ratchets can literally be throw at the ground for years and will work like the day you bought them. Pretty impressive. But my craftsman made in USA tools haven't let me down yet and I feel confident they will be with me for awhile.

ploegi

I have some of the china made craftsman tools. They aren't as good as the old made in usa versions, but, they work, they still have the same warranty, and sears is just up the street (about 8 miles....) and are open 7 days a week..... I like the look of the Kobalt tools better though.... also the feel..... So, might be switching to those when it comes time to get some replacements... Lowes is another half-mile down the road from sears.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Another tangent but the Craftsman China wrenches are made in slightly different molds/forges. You can tell because the "heads" of the wrench are different shapes than the USA wrenches. Hold two up to each other sometime.


As far as finding USA craftsmans, it can be done. To date I know that some of the larger tool sets at Sears are still USA. I had good luck also searching in the tool section at K-marts (as they are owned by sears. . .or vise versa) and they carry Craftsman.


They are getting rarer, but it's a nice little gem when you do find one lol.

Want_a_v8

Well I this got a little off hand as to the discussion of tools we have quite a set between what I've gotten as gifts over the years, and my dad has sets he's had for ever. Back to original topic(&#128514 I was browsing the local craigslist ads and I saw a lot of good condition camaros and firebirds for cheap, but the other thing I noticed were a lot of c4 corvettes for similar prices and mileage. Would there be a huge difference between insurance on the z28 camaro to base camaro vs corvette to z28 or base? I had ruled out most higher end Chevy models because of insurance but I've never really looked at the corvettes. Thanks!

Zane M

iTrader: (1)

There is a world of difference between a Corvette and even a high end Camaro/Firebird in the eyes of insurance companies.
A Corvette is 100% a high performance(even thought the older ones are tame by today's standards) sports car with a high propensity for major damage in the event of an accident.
Some companies won't even insure an inexperienced driver on a Corvette, and if they will, the rates will be astronomical.

Want_a_v8

That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure. When I had drivers ed I remember the teacher saying that a 2 seater sports car is more than a 2+2 , like a camaro/firebird. Thanks!

mrestrictrplate

iTrader: (2)

Did you try shopping different insurance companies? I'm in Nj and most are thru the roof. Geico isn't the cheapest by far like they were.

Want_a_v8

i havent had much time lately, but i will look into it. i was also recently talking this over with my dad, and there are a lot of dirt cheap 'rollers' that have blown motors around us. if i were to get one of these, since there are several 305s available, and bought a salvaged 305 from the same car, would it be price efficient to pull the blown one out then drop in another? ive also heard of the lr4 i believe- or the 4.8 ls. they too can be had for dirt cheap, and after selling wiring/ used accesories, getting a carb setup for them isnt too costly. with about 250-260 whp(already more than the l98 cars) i wouldnt do anything to it but would that be more cost efficient than just replacing the 305? (i could also do this with some v6 cars but more$$ for stronger parts) another thing ive encountered is about transmissions. as 90% of chevy guys know, the t5 isnt the most durable under power. if i get a roller, since it will be a summer project, i could do a 6spd swap, but another thing i've found is manual valve bodies. i know it turns your automatic into a simulated clutchless 4spd, (and if i did it i would use the reverse pattern) but is there any downsides to it? i really want to be able to have a manual and learn to improve that but if thats not possible would anyone recommend that? there are also a number of tbi cars, and from wha ive heard , they can make decent power gains with only exhaust, intake and minor cam(lt1) although it would be nowhere close to a tpi motor or the 4.8/5.3. anyways, what do you guys suggest. sorry for being off for a while

1987thirdgen

As an insurance agent- 1600 a year for one of these is not bad at all- especially for your age.

I built a roller for my first car, 1987 Camaro.
Be prepared to invest more time and money than you will expect. But believe me you will feel like the cool kid riding in in your built ride.

Don't put a hokey exhaust on- make sure you have ground clearance. You look cool until you ride the brakes and still scrape every speed bump- lol.

Figure your budget both time and money.

A ls swap will be ~2k, t56 will be another `1k. Then there is the time aspect. I wrenched many nights after homework my freshman year.

Want_a_v8

thanks for the feedback. since all 3rd gens are now emissions free(antique or 25 yrs old) by me, i was looking at just doing a straight pipe into a cherry bomb or something, then possibly e cutouts for track/auto crossing. for the 2k of the ls swap, does that encompass going efi? ive seen holley and eddlebrock making carb kits with ignition and mounting hardware and gaskets- so basically a full carb conversion kit- for about 5-800 depending on single, dual or quad plane manifolds. by selling all the wiring and un-needed electronics off of say a 2-300 4.8/5.3, as well as the truck oil pan and accessories, (see later on for that) would i technically be able to encompass most of the carb kit? then after that, i would need swap mounts, a swap flywheel or bell housing if its already a 5 spd, (since i wont be doing much fast driving a newer t5 should hold up for a while until budget allows a t56) and some scrap wiring to wire up the electronics since the engine is now running by itself other than the included msd box. ive looked at ls swap forums but havent seen much on a carb'd ls swap, but from watching roadkill and other similar shows on tv before, ive gleaned that other than a new x member, there isnt much other difficult work to be done since carbs eliminate 99% of wiring in the engine. based off that, theoretically swap price would be cut down quite a bit. thanks!

Want_a_v8

as for the truck accessories, if i used a cowl hood over the stock one could i get away with the stock ones until they go out, then go to f body ones? i know the oil pan wont clear easy without scraping every once in awhile, so an f body pan is a must for me. anyways thanks again

MintWS6FORMULA

You'll be paying the same high insurance rates for the TBI as you would for a 5.7. The insurance companies only count the number of cylinders, not how much power the engine has. If you go ahead and get the extra 2 cylinders, you might as well go big.

MintWS6FORMULA

Yeah, you'd be better on a more affordable car to insure. When I was fresh in the job force and still paying high insurance and needed a practical car for year-round, I bought a new '93 GA coupe. Bright red, rear spoiler, and 16" Alum wheels. Oh, and it had the 3300 engine which was a blast because unlike the 3100, it got it's torque down low so pulling away from stop lights was like driving a V8. And it'd accelerate to 90 (and beyond) like nobody's business. The interior looked virtually identical to the 4th gen TA.

Find a V6 car that's just as fun and more affordable. The V6's on average now make 300 hp, even if you have to get them with an extra 2 doors to help on the insurance.

Want_a_v8

[QUOTE=MintWS6FORMULA;6031026]Yeah, you'd be better on a more affordable car to insure. When I was fresh in the job force and still paying high insurance and needed a practical car for year-round, I bought a new '93 GA coupe. Bright red, rear spoiler, and 16" Alum wheels. Oh, and it had the 3300 engine which was a blast because unlike the 3100, it got it's torque down low so pulling away from stop lights was like driving a V8. And it'd accelerate to 90 (and beyond) like nobody's business. The interior looked virtually identical to the 4th gen TA.

Find a V6 car that's just as fun and more affordable. The V6's on average now make 300 hp, even if you have to get them with an extra 2 doors to help on the insurance.
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i had been looking at some v6 f bodies and similar, just because i like the car so much but of course not a v6 3rd gen because the 2.8 was slow, and while the 3.1 was better, it was.... still slow lol. the fourth gen ones have 200 flywheel hp, and came with a five speed, which i like. ive seen you tube videos of them with a gt2 cam(sounds amazing) and an exhaust making 230 whp then a nitrous shot making 300+. while i definitely dont need that much(no nitrous just yet... thats for later on) basically what i've been looking for is rwd, manual, kinda quick, but handles good, so that only gives me hundreds+ cars to choose from thanks anyway!

Want_a_v8

also, in complete contradiction to what ive just said, ive had a few people recommend getting a cheaper 3rd gen v6, and going over everything while its stockish(bolt ons) then eventually going v8. the 2.8 had like 135 factory flywheel, and the 3.1 had 140 something. thats still slow, but i get the upgrading of like handling and stuff then adding a bigger engine. anyone second? thanks!

AmpleUnicorn88

Again, I'm not sure what rates are on these cars V6 vs V8. You do have the benefit of swapping and never telling your insurance company and they won't raise your rates. But if you swap and put a ton of work into your car, at that point you might want to up the insurance just in case. Somebody who is involved in the insurance game maybe will know more than me.

My personal opinion is (if this is your first car) if it runs, you should be happy. That's not to say that you shouldn't try to get something you like, which is what I did, but I didn't worry about rates. I knew what I wanted, and made sure I found a way to afford it. My insurance is practically nothing on my 88 V8 camaro but I'm 27 and have no tickets or accidents on my record. Not sure what it would be for a 16 year old, probably triple I'd imagine.

I will say if you can afford to be putting time into modifications then doing a swap will be an awesome learning experience for you. I have learned a lot working on both of my third gens and when you switch to other vehicles, you start to appreciate how easy these cars are. I just had to replace the water pump on my dodge ram, and I had to tear apart the whole front end of the engine to do so. These cars I think for the most part are easy to wrench on and a good way to learn a thing or 2.

Want_a_v8

thats the reason i was thinking just get a cheap 3rd gen v6, upgrade the suspension and handling and stuff accent of things, then go with a motor swap later on, so that its vin is still a v6, so theoretically, rates should be cheaper for the same coverage. i do know quite a bit about the different swaps available(but theres always more to learn), as ive been reading up on them in my spare time, trying to decide if i should do one or not. the one im leaning towards the most would be a carb'd 4.8, but i believe i already mentioned why. (cheap, pretty powerful, higher redline) anywho, does the 2.8 make a good daily or semi daily (ie decent mileage, etc)? anybody who knows thanks! last second thing, iis the 350 tbi a good swap? thats one of the only gm motors from that era i dont know much on except for that its from a truck thanks!

AmpleUnicorn88

Messing with TBI is sort of tricky as far as upgrading. You can do the ultimate tbi mod, exhaust, intake, but once you start messing with injectors or cam or heads, it will need to be tuned. My buddy did all of that to his TBI and it was a ton of work tuning it right himself.

Why would you carb a 4.8? Why wouldn't you stick with the fuel injection?