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Old 03-14-2005, 08:45 PM   #1
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Vats/No-Start/starter relay

I Burned My 1st Chip!!

All I did was turn off VATS hoping it would fix my No-Start condition. Well, it did and didn't. Put chip in and turned key. Nothing. Bypassed starter relay, turned key...FIRES RIGHT UP.

Previously it would just turn over but not start when bypassing starter relay. Now, at least it will start up and run.

Anyone have an idea how I can start car without bypassing the starter relay? Basically, what's wrong?

I'm brain tired... I've been working on this car for a month now. Thought it was about to turn into a parts car...
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Last edited by smithtc; 03-15-2005 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:21 AM   #2
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Quote:
Vats is directly involved with giving the starter relay a signal to start; it also tells the computer it is OK to fire the injectors


Found the above quote in a search. My take is the starter relay is part of the VATS System; therefore, since I disabled the VATS in the computer, this part NEEDS to be Bypassed Permanently.

Any confirmation on that?
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:36 AM   #3
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on your starter relay, there is a black wire with a yellow stripe.


when this wire is put to ground, it allows the car to start.


normally, VATS grounds this wire.

if you ground this wire, it will bypass VATS.



my reccomendation to you is, if you bypass it and dont use VATS at all, at LEAST get a cheap alarm that will use the starter disable relay.


otherwise i could steal your car with nothing more then a rock or brick or hammer.......
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Old 03-15-2005, 08:49 PM   #4
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GUYS,WHERE IS THE STARTER RELAY AT??? I HAVE A VATS PROB WITH A PARTS CAR OF MINE(NO KEY) I CANT GET TYHE RIGHT RESISTANCE.... WILL ME GROUNDING THAT STARTER RELAY ALSO TELL THE COMP ITS OK TO FIRE THE INJECTORS????
THANKS
MIKE
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Old 03-15-2005, 10:06 PM   #5
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Hello Mikeage2,

In answer to your first question, the starter enable relay is mounted under the left kick panel and depending on the vehicle year and model. It location there will vary from down at the base of the panel to up near the fuse panel.
In answer to the second question, no. Grounding the starter enable relay will not tell the computer that it is okay to fire the fuel injectors.
And please turn off the cap-lock key when you post, it would be appreciated greatly.
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Old 03-16-2005, 09:02 AM   #6
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yea, typing in all caps makes it harder to read, and is considered yelling online....


anyhoo, i spent a hour looking for mine the first time...

heres where i found mine:


remove the drivers side kickpanel... (thats the vertical panel directly to the left of your left foot when seated in the car.)

you'll see some tar-like crap on the car there... pull it back... the relay was stuck to the back of the stuff.....
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Old 03-16-2005, 12:08 PM   #7
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When VATS is enabled the ECM looks for a signal from the VATS module to enable the injectors.
The VATS module enables/disables the starter relay.

When you:
  1. Disable the ECM VATS watchdog, (you enable injectors,)
  2. Ground the relay, (you bypass the VATS module.)
    The engine will start.

I think that's the way it works.
The 89 bin I used had the VATS enabled, but my Car doesn't have a VATS module, so disabling the VATS was all I needed to do.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:46 AM   #8
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can you permanently ground the relay then???

how would you disable the VATS watchdog? theres no way to jumper wire over it is there??

thanks
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Old 03-25-2005, 06:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by 84z28ss
can you permanently ground the relay then???

how would you disable the VATS watchdog? theres no way to jumper wire over it is there??

thanks
It's amazing at the non-help you get on this site when it comes to VATS. That's just the policy here, I think. If someone had told me a couple of things to try, my car could have been running a month sooner. I spent a month figuring this thing out myself.

My starter relay has become my Vehicle Anti-Theft System. I ground it out with a paperclip for now, and take it out once cranked...haven't tried leaving it grounded all the time. Not sure on the electronics, but maybe it can drain the battery if left grounded. Easy check, though. For now, It's not going to ground without my paperclip inserted. I'll get around to installing a switch eventually.

The thirdgen watchdogs probably don't want posted ways of getting around the VATS module. Many posts are available, via search, for using a resistance to get around the VATS. I don't think my VATS module was working though...so that didn't matter in my case.

But the best way I know to check if its a VATS problem is to take out the prom...ground the starter relay if you have one, and the car will crank in limp home mode. Then you need to figure out how you want to "fix" your VATS problem...via disableing it in the computer chip/prom...or repairing the system somehow.


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Old 03-26-2005, 12:19 AM   #10
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smithtc,
I apologize, my reply should have a line stating, "if your VATS module is operating then the following holds true," and the second item on the list should read, "Ground the relay, or install a bypass resistor, if the VATS module isn't working then just ground the relay permanently.
The engine will start.
Quote:
originally posted by 84z28ss
can you permanently ground the relay then???

how would you disable the VATS watchdog? theres no way to jumper wire over it is there??
Yes, the starter relay can be permanently grounded because it is only energized in the start position.
No, the signal from the VATS module can't be jumpered because it's a frequency signal about 60hz.

smithtc, if you want to bypass the starter relay altogether then remove the wire to the starter from the VATS relay, and the wire to the VATS relay coil and connect them together this essentially is the way it was before VATS was introduced.

I think this is what you want.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 03-26-2005, 12:19 AM
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