1992_DIY

Hey all. Finally got around to doing major work to the car. 1992 Camaro Z/28 5.7.

I had a major electronics failure, including the ECM.

After thinking about it, I decided to go classic and do the EFI to carb swap, as it's easier for me to tune and deal with, as I am sure it is with most people.

I had the motor bored 30 over, new pistons, etc.

I am looking for the correct setup for the Edlebrock Performer Plus series, however.

I bought the cam with the matching lifters, only to realize they weren't roller lifters.

Not a big deal. Anyone who has ever done this swap and put Edelbrock components in have any good advice?

Or even other aftermarket parts? =) I am just looking for some good input on what is out there for this particular motor, and what has worked well for others.

I have pictures if anyone is interested, btw.

Thanks.

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

What is the performer plus series?
You sure the cam is a roller? Sounds like the u bought a standard hydraulic flat tappet cam and lifters. Thats going to make a hugh deal when u go to put that in a roller motor

1992_DIY

Yeah, I bought the standard hydraulic flat tappet cam and lifters by mistake. I haven't seen the roller cam for that particular setup, though, and that's what I was asking about.

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

Im about to put in a performer RPM roller cam in my motor. Well i just went to thier website and saw the performer plus cam kit. Im guessing its supposed to be the performer package but they added the plus to sound better. I would call them and ask if they have the performer plus cam for a roller motor. Also FYI for the most part anytime u see kit labeled with a cam its 99% of time going to be a standard hydraulic cam. They generally dont advertise roller kits but they do sell them.

IROCaholic

Dont go with that crappy cam dude. What heads are you planning on running? I would either look at the LT4 hotcam or One of comps Extreme roller cams. I have seen a few people with the Lt4 hot cam and vortec heads make over 400hp at the flywheel and still drive it daily with good gas mileage. Good Luck.

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

Are u talking to me or him? Its only people from this board i see bash edelbrock cams. Everyone on here that i have seen talk bad about edelbrock cams dont even have one and probably never have they are just talking out there ***. Everyone i have talked to that actually has the edelbrock cams love them and swear by them. Ive seen numerous dyno sheets showing that the cams perform. What ive seen is when people mix and match parts and come up with crap. They read about how bad these heads are and how bad that cam is and they throw it together and they dont get anywhere near the power they thought they were going to get. With mine i decided to build a package that came highly recommend from techs I talked to just about every cylinder head manufacturer Dart,Afr,trickflow etc plus i talked with some local machince shops. The biggest thing i will tell anyone is build a package. The RPM package is a dyno proven combo its not a guessing game if its going to work or not. A set of aftermarket heads and a random comp cam is a guess as to how well it work. Im personally building my motor to make power thru out the RPM's not just 4,000 and above. Who needs a motor on the street that doesnt make peak power till 7,000 its a waste. A good performing mid range motor is awesome for the street. My motor will be making power from 1,500 to 6,500 no low spots just ***** to the wall.

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

Ive also learned the majority of people on this board are younger than mid 20's so i dont know how much i believe what they say. I feel a lot better when i talk to techs that have been building engines longer than people are old around here.

Stekman

So go around here and ask the veterans. They will tell you that Edelbrock cams are old compared to that of the major manufacturures such as Crane, Comp, Isky, Crower, etc.

And for the record, the Performer-Plus series are flat tappet. And yes, a flat tappet cam can be used in a factory roller block. But I'm only 21, so my word is nullified.

1992_DIY

Whoa whoa... I wasn't trying to start an argument. I was just curious to know what kind of cam/head combos people were using (with roller lifters) and had good results.

That's all I am after

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

Well this see u fit the flat tappet lifters into the roller lifter holes.

Stekman

Yep, both lifter bores are cast as .842". So yes, the lifters do fit.

RB83L69

The Edelbrock cams suck. At least the flat tappet ones. They are old old old generic grinds tha tyou can buy from anywhere for a fraction of what Edelbrock charges for them. The Performer cam is the very one that when people say "RV cam", they're usually talking about. Check these links. Look closely at the .050" duration and the lift numbers. Ignore the "advertised" duration number, because all of these vendors rate that differently.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=EDL%2D2102
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=SUM%2D1102
http://www.melling.com/products/melling_catalog.pdf do a search on the page for 22110
http://www.amotion.com/csb.html#20 search the page for 20775

etc. etc. etc.

The RPM cam is one of those old cams that you've heard people call a "stage 3", "¾ race cam", etc. It's a relic from the Stone Age. In fact you can find it on some of those same pages I just showed you.

I've never used any of the Edelbrock hyd rollers, so I can't comment on them.

The Edelbrock heads and intakes however, can be pretty decent choices for a street build. That's what they're optimized for. They won't ever win a heads-up dyno competition; but they will give a very good mix of performance, driveability, and gas mileage. I'd use some other cam though.

A good motor combo for a L98 short block except with a carb, would be the Edelbrock RPM heads & intake (you might could get them cheaper by buying the package, and selling the cam & lifters to some "greater fool" on ebay); a Holley or Demon carb, a 750 would be about perfect; and a Comp XR276HR cam. That combo will significantly outrun the Edelbrock "power package" and have better driveability to boot.

IROCaholic

WOW. I was talking to him about the performer flat tappet cam. That cam sucks. And actually I have heard pretty good things about the new roller cams edelbrocke makes and seen some 375+ hp numbers with them. I still think that the XR cams are some of the best roller cams on the market and will work great with in a 350 with a good set of heads.Jeez.

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

So thats the reason they make retro fit roller lifters right? Because u know any old joe could throw some factory roller lifters and a roller cam and have a roller motor. And i never said i was expert i let professionals tell me which parts work and dont work.

rjmcgee

Better take a break from the key board and go consult with a pro.

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

What do i need to consult about im not asking for help i already have all my stuff.

1992_DIY

Can we please stop for a minute, and remember that I just asked for opinions, not arguments? Just list your damned setups so I can get a good idea. PLEASE.

Thanks again.

IROC-Turbo

Yeah im interested in this thread also as i'll soon be building a street engine.Either 327 or 350

Not to be in the arguement or anything but i thought that the lifter bores were the same size but the lifter bore was thicker and taller to keep the lifter from wollering the hole out because the lifters are longer.

Dont they make non roller truck engines useing the same one piece rearseal block as the the iroc's roller engine??Besides the 4 bolt main on some!!

Not trying to spur the arguement but i would really like to know this as i was gonna shop for a roller block just for the lifter bore strength no matter which cam i decided to go with.

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

Sorry about all that man

Here is my engine combo
355 4bolt main roller motor
10 to 1 compression
flat top hyper pistons
cast rods and crank
HV oil pump
Dart 180cc, 64cc, 2.02, 1.60
Edelbrock performer rpm roller cam
cloyes billet roller timing chain
comp cams magnum pushrods
bowtie 1.5RR's
comp cams valve springs
comp cams screw in studs and guide plates
Edelbrock performer rpm intake
670 holley street avenger or i also have a holley 750 double pumper going to try both
holley blue pump
hooker supercomp headers
dual 3 inch exhaust with 2 chamber flows
Msd pro billet distributor
Msd 6al
Msd blaster SS coil
Msd timing control
8.8mm wires
14X3 K&N
Nitrous coming soon
I would tell u how the combo works but not for a week im in the process of assembling the motor and doing a bunch of othe stuff. My package is supposed to make power from 1,500 to 6,500. I wanted a good street combo my car rarely sees the track. Plus i have a 5speed and 3.73's and weigh 3,100 pounds so it should move.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I will just post my old sig, ran like a bat out of hell, even untuned, even while it was eating the bearings.

RB83L69

Yes. Don't use an Edlebrock flat-tappet cam.

OK, so now, here's the deal on "the setup":

"Setup a motor" = pick a cam (among other things)

Write that down and memorize it.

The cam you have SUCKS. That $50 part will cause you more disappointment per dollar, than almost any one other component. It's the cheapest single part of the whole motor. Even a VERY EXPENSIVE one, is peanuts next to a good set of heads or the block machine work. In fact, it's so cheap, the wrong cam choice may run up its ENTIRE REPLACEMENT COST just in gasoline, in the FIRST MONTH the car is on the road. And then you get to buy another cam's worth of gas the next month.... and another one the next month.... and another, and another, and another, ..... and all the while, be dissatisifed over how this $2500 or whatever motor runs, all over a $50 part, and you STILL eventually have to buy the right cam to get it to run like you want. Make it a real expensive hyd flat tappet cam: $100 instead of the cheeeeep $50 POS. Big deal.

In other words, you don't design a motor around a cam, no matter what cam it is. You pick a cam that goes along with what you want the motor to do.

We (well, those of us who have some BTDT, anwyay) aren't going to tell you all about how great that POS cam is, and how if you buy this set of heads and that intake and so on, you get a motor that magically defies the law of physics. No. What will happen is, no matter what you get for the rest of that stuff, the cam you use is going to determine the engine's optimum operating RPM range; and that particular one, is going to pin the engine to a peak torque at around 3200 RPM and peak HP at 4000 RPM or less. Now if that's how you want your car to run, like a tractor or something, then that's the cam for you. If you want it to run good, like a performance motor with $aftermarket heads$ on it (i.e. if you want to get what you're already paying for elsewhere), you need something else.

The heads you've got have flow that supports good power to over 6500 RPM in a 350. They have a relatively poor E/I flow ratio, which means that they benefit greatly from a cam with a bigger exhaust lobe. You should be looking at cams with intake duration of around 225-235°, and exhaust about 5-10° greater than the intake; with a modern design cam, that'll put you at something like a Comp XE274H. That cam has 274° on the seat, 230° @ .050"; compared to 278° at the seat, and 204° @.050" for the POS you've got. That thing is such a joke. Other of the top-line cam mfrs have similar products that give similar results, and we can all argue all day about which is best or which is worst; but if you get a "state-of-the-art" cam from Comp, or Crane, Lunati, Crower, or Isky, with about the properties I specified, you'll have a good match for your heads.

I might sound harsh; but I'm just telling it like it is. You don't have to take the advice you get. The fact that the advice isn't what you wanted to hear, doesn't mean that it's bad. But if you want your money you spent on heads to actually produce something for you, you'd be wise to heed it.

11 Flat

270 RWHP and 272 RWHP those are the only 2 Performer RPM packages I have seen on the dyno. Funny thing is one of the kids after he got the motor in his car was saying how scary and fast it is. He was a little disappointed with his numbers......then he was really upset when a stock zz4 in a Monte threw down 260 RWHP and about 30 more RWTQ. The other car had a 350 and the guy added the Heads, Cam, intake and carb...etc this car was in on a different day. But they both put down pretty much the same numbers. I did a cam swap on the zz4, XE 224/230 performer rpm intake and 750 holley. 310 RWHP I think the Monte broke into the 12's on street tires and stock stall but im not sure.