Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Anyone use the comp .630" / 1.44" cutter to cut these heads ? 4718 is the P/N.

I'm wondering if there's an issue? ie. the guides (.630" is too big ?) or 1.43" is too big?

I'm in Ohio now and thinking I should buy a pile of parts at summit while I can go to this ... heavenly place in person.

In the future I might upgrade to 1.43" springs on these heads, and I think Vortecs might be something I would dabble in with future builds, etc.

Please let me know ASAP, driving there tonight.

Supervisor42

I'd like to know this answer on the vortecs.
You can also always use a step cutter as shown below.
It locates the inner spring at the original spring pocket depth and the outer one slightly higher.


I have the regular Isky cutter that cuts the pocket 1.450 and the guide boss down to .700 if needed.
One of us may have to "experiment" on a set of 416's...

Apeiron

Prepare to be disappointed.

F-BIRD'88

Do you really need to do this. Remember, this a "budget head"
You can get very near 7000rpm out of a good stock diameter high perf spring that can handle up to .600" lift (on some.)
super big lift will not help these heads. The intake port "stalls" and "Backs up" at .550" lift. flow goes down casue of turbulance.

isky 205D isky 235D Crane 99846 Lunati 73943 and many more. Is all the spring you need for that head.
On a old version 416 on a wild 350 I built, the thing would rev well over 7000 rpm with 130lbs stock diameter springs. I have these same exact springs off those busted 416 heads now on my 406 vortec motor. Pulls strong to 6600rpm without complaint on a hyd lifter XE cam. I have the Comp 981's on my 416 head 350 now which will eventually get the Isky Z-27 cam. if I need a better spring I'll swap on some Isky 235D's.
Save your money.

When you get to Tallmadge, Check out this Summit 200cc alum head #162111
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
And tell me what you think of it.

Yes you can cut either head for the 1.44" spring pocket. My present vortecs are machined for a 1.43" spring even thou I run a 1.26" stock diameter spring on them now.

Smaller springs have a lighter mass which contributes to a higher natural resonance frequency. If/when the spring starts buzzing within the usable rpm range, all hell breaks loose reguardless of spring pressure. There is a definate practical limit that a flat tappet cam and lifter can tolerate where beyond that point the camlobe +lifter face life is vastly shortened. A street motor is all about compromises.

Anyways if you must, then thats the right cutter for the 986 or 987 comp springs.
You need the #4726 valve guide seal cutter to shorten the guide boss for a .530" seal and the #4732 arbor for 11/32" valve guides.

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

F bird, you were using a flat tappet cam though, right? With a roller, it is very difficult to get enough spring pressure with a 1.25" spring. I have the stiffest 1.25" cheapie pioneer spring you can get, and it is 130 seat, 325 open @0.510" lift. That is set up at only 1.750 installed height, which does not leave a lot of room for comfort w/ spring bind. That gives you borderline enough spring pressure for a 500'ish hyd roller cam. I would be uneasy turning a lot of r's with this setup.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Ok, I suppose i'll stick with 1.25" springs for now then. I think my unbalanced engine is what's limiting my RPM for now anyway....

ha! I think i'm going to be buried at summit I'll try to get a picture of this world

Apeiron

I've been to Summit. It's.... a store. Picture Mopac with more square footage, but the same stuff.

F-BIRD'88

Hyd roller valvedtrain are a different beast. The valve rise acceleration between .050 and .300 is much more intense and the lifter itself is heavier.

416 budget ported head engines don;t deserve, need or justify a roller cam.
Budget means don;t spend a lot of money on it.

The only thing you might buy for doing 416 heads is the valve guide cutting tool for shortening the valve guide top for the .530" posi seals and high valve lift.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Ah, com'on, let the kid have his fantasies. . .

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Patriot Gold springs. 150 a set. I think 1.25-1.27 inch diameter if i recall right. Good to .650 lift with a 1.80 install height. 135lbs seat, 375 open. good rates. shim them good for 600 lift and your well over 150lbs seat and will handle whatever roller you want.

extreme gold is good to .660 at 1.800" installed height. 155 lb seat, 410 open. nasty little spring

AFR 8019 springs are 1.27 " and similar specs. I have mine shimmed setup at 1.775" and they feature 166-170lbs on the seat, near 400 open. They handle my 383 to 6800 even tho i dont need to go past 6500.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

ok, all helpful advice, all a bit too late...
I'll skip the cutter then until I have a need for other springs. I can also get beehives in 1.25" OD IIRC....

Yea, it's like MOPAC but the size of a COSTCO. Good lord!!! I walked in, lost control of my bladder, changed, then came back and got a picture of the amazingness that is Summit racing. Wow what a place...
Only could think of $90 of stuff to buy though... Darn. Oh well, luggage is only so big.

Apeiron

Too bad, you wasted wasted $660 worth of tax-free cross-border shopping with no shipping fees.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

huh? oh, never knew that $750 was the limit... I bought all kinds of other things here though too. Pants, lingerie, massage oil.... I could only think of $90 worth of *car parts* to buy.
I slipped up. Ouch.

skinny z

For what it's worth, Vortec heads and Comp Cams
Beehive springs were made for each. I have a .540" roller cam and installed the beehives with zero modifications to the spring pocket or guide boss. Retained the factory positive seals as well.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone tested one of these 1.25" springs later on after use to see if they maintain the 135# closed seat pressure?

I have a 2202/220 .525" lift roller cam and want to install with vortecs. Don't really trust the 1.25" springs with enough seat pressure and RPM range. Thinking of going 1.430" springs, but if the 1.25" will "reliably" work then I won't have to machine the heads.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Just a word of caution with Patriot springs... measure their installed height very carefully! I bought a set of their .650 lift springs for my LS3 heads, and they installed well below the 1.8" claimed height, to the point where I would have had coil bind with a .625 cam. This was due to the retainers they use. Not sure if they use the same retainers with the SBC setups, but at least check your installed height before you run them with a big cam.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, this is what I am questioning.
What is the quality of the Patriot, Alex, other 135# springs with 1.25" OD? Will they really live up to the specs?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah i am finding out that those springs arent quite great quality, and many other vendors sell the same spring under different names. I seen them work well tho but have seen a few break

I would look into pac springs for doubles or beehives if you need a stiff spring. Or maybe afr 8019 springs. I have used those with success and they indeed coil bind at advertised and install correctly as long as head is machined correctly and has standard length valves. The retainers were properly manufactured and had no issues