Night_blade897

first, please. i dont want anyone telling me to get a new engine, my question is how can i make it faster, not a 500 hp car, nor a 600, or 700hp car. i just want more then 170.

anyway, on with my questions...

I already know some things to do to it would be,
1.exhaust
2.headers,
3.clean air intake/"ram air" intake vented to a cowl hood
4.Stroker kit? im not sure on what it does, could you answer that question too?
5.turbocharger (if its DOHC) and supercharger if not
6.tranny (from a 350z28?)

I was thinking maybe a TPI from the z28? or maybe even mpfi from something newer like a 99 silverado? maybe you could tell me what other chevy vehicles have the same engine block as i do? because i really want to get most of my mods from other cars at the junkyard.

other things i know i could use but im not sure on what they do are..

newer heads (aluminum (for less weight)
better cam (would that be in a dohc?)

i have lots of questions that im dieing to know the answers for.

and once again, im not looking to make this a drag car, its going to be an everyday driver for a 17 (almost 18) year old, and i just want alittle more HP, without loosing gas mileage, (perferably gain some) but if ill loose some please tell me for each mod you mention, or that i have mentioned, about how much hp ill gain, and if ill loose or gain gas milage.

and yes i know "when looking at gaining hoursepower your gona loose gas mileage"
dont lecture me, just answer =]

please.


Also, i know wheight is one other big thing, but im putting in a sound system in it and everything because im wanting this to be show worthy,
but going to alot of car shows and hearing how other cars have , 250, 300, 350Hp i need some bragging rights you know? lol

oh, and im gona remove the AC

thanks lol

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Swap in a 350.

87_TA_GTA

well not trying to be a smart *** but this is the brake board so i will start off by saying you should get either a C4 or C5 brake upgrade. no sense getting all this power if you cant stop the thing.

now i know u said u dont want to do an engine swap but ur throwing out DOHC. all of our v8 (not sure about v6s) are OHV. this means we only have one camshaft and its in the engine block, not in the heads. all tpi stuff is the same so im guessing your car is not a tpi (tbi?). what you could do because you wanted this also to be a show car (250 or 300 hp is not really anything to brag about anyways) if you dont have emissions to worry about then i say go for a Holley Stealth Ram for your intake. it will bring in a good amount of power with out doing anything to drastic with fuel consumption. also a good set of headers with a 3" collector going to a 3" catback with your choice of muffler would work pretty well. as for heads if you really want to go aluminum then go with some AFRs, if you could go for some iron heads then id do with some Dart Iron Eagle heads.

to answer your question on what a stroker kit does, and i might be pretty well off on this, but i think the general idea of a stroker kit is to add more cubes to your engine without getting a new block. an example would be starting with a 350 and stroking it to a 383. the only thing that changes im pretty sure is the bottom end, maybe just the crankshaft. as for the supercharged or turbo, i dont know why turbo can only be had with DOHC. i think it would be good for the sake of this to forget about OHV, OHC and DOCH. id say something like a procharger would be the easiest way of forced induction, but turbo is still pretty doable.

lets see, now were looking at the tranny. getting the tranny from a 350 Z28 is a good idea. (is your car a 350 Z28?) but im not sure if it would be able to support the power of this engine reliably. and im not really sure on how much that would cost to get it built to handle the power, but im guessing nothing too extreme.

so i guess thats it, but take my words with a grain of salt because im only 17 and even if it might sound like i know what im taking about (i think what i say usually makes sense lol) im not too experienced with all this stuff... yet.

and just noticed you just joined. Welcome! got the car as a holiday gift? youll have alot of fun with her no matter what direction you decide to take.

87_TA_GTA

wow just read that ur car is a 305 lol missed that. well what i said should still hold true but for the stroker it would be from 305 to 328 i believe

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

DOHC..?

OHC engines have typically one or two camshafts located in the cylinder heads in the form of SOHC, or DOHC. (Single over head cam) (Dual over head cam).

As far as I know, GM has never made an OHC V8. If you want OHC technology, go out and buy a Modular powered Mustang. 96-04 Mustang GT's have a nice SOHC 4.6. 99-04 Cobra and Mach 1 Mustangs have a DOHC 4.6. I believe all of them years had the DOHC 4.6, not sure on that one.

Our engines have the simple old technology known as OHV. Which is a single cam located in the bottom center of the block, which controls pushrods, that move rocker arms, in order to operate the exhaust/intake valves.

You CAN swap an OHV engine to SOHC, or even DOHC, but the gains would be minimal, and you'd be throwing thousands of dollars out the door, when you could go buy a SOHC Modular V8 Ford for a whole $1,500 used.

DOHC valvetrains are better suited in smaller engines, with peak power above 6,000 RPM. Less mass due to no pushrods, which is really preferable for a very fast operating valvetrain. It will not tend to float a valve.

Now, on the subject of a Turbocharger. Turbochargers do not care if an engine is DOHC, SOHC, OHV. Turbochargers are not made to suit a specific valvetrain. Turbochargers are designed to use exhaust power, to spin a compressor, and force air into the engine. They are also a heck of a lot more efficient than a supercharger.

If you're running a completely stock engine, invest your money in a cheap eBay turbo kit. You can safely run 6-8 PSI on 93 Octane pump gas, and it will be a nice 'bolt on' 50 or so Horsepower. You'll have the bragging rights of a Turbocharged 5.0, which will have a nice bit of power behind it. You'd easily be able to hit 200 RWHP with a completely stock fuel system, injectors included.

I usually despise eBay turbo kits, but for someone that's looking for cheap power, it's the way to go. If you want 250-300 Horsepower, and do not want to blow your life savings, it makes sense. You may have to buy new injectors to be on the safe side, but beside that, a $1,000 eBay turbo kit would simply be bolt on.

There's no need to go out and buy expensive headers, cat backs, intake manifolds, throttle bodies, computer programmers, stroker kits, higher compression internals. Also, if you're not worried about top speed, invest in 3.73 gears. It will give you a nice jump, acceleration wise.

If you even plan to go stroker, it does not make sense to do so on a 305. The most cost efficient way is to take the 350-383 route. Parts are cheap and plentiful.

If you need any more advice, just ask. I'm sure a few wiser people will chime in, too. I know a decent amount of info, but I'm no mechanic.

Night_blade897

sorry about posting this on a "break" fourm, or whatever it is, it took me forever just to learn how to post one, i know you guys know your stuff, thats why im asking you. thanks.

Night_blade897

acctualy i know that the 1990 -1995 corvette zr1? with the lt5 was a dohc,
thats why i sugested this.

Night_blade897

yes i have a tbi, and i hear that theyr less eficient? idk thats why im posting it on here lol.

and i didnt say that my friend said that you can't have a turbo unless its a dohc, he said it would be the best choice, seeing that its exhaust driven. also hes a civic dude so idk if its a vtec thing r what lol.

i know 250 - 300hp isnt "braggable" but its sure of alot better then 170 lol.

and you know alot more about cars then i do seeing that im going on 18 soon lol. so ill take your word, and everyone elses word on it.

oh and i didnt get it as a gift, i bought it about a few weeks before thanksgiving for 500. it needs alot of body and interior work and since i cant drive it yet i wanted to fix it up and make it nice before i get on the road. the person that had it b4 i could tell had no idea what they were doing, (less then me) when i told them i was gona put headers on it they asked y? "its already loud enough with the catback", and i shook my head lol.

its a good project car, and hey, it runs =] lol

Night_blade897

oh and another reason i want a TPI is because i dont think i can gett acctualy ram air intakes for a tbi because its basicly a carb. and i think that the z28s have stock ram air intakes? with the tpi. but idk.

oh about the cams. someone told me that the cams and the heads on the rs suck, so thats the main reason i was thinking about swapping it with another heads, and other cams, but how you say that they'r in the block, could i somehow change them with the z28? or would i have to swap the whole block?

the reason im so set on swapping parts is because the z28 305 has 200+ HP and the rs has 170 lol, think about it xD

oh and one more thing. i heard that the blocks in a 350 and a 305 are the same? i highly doubt that, but thats just me

ericjon262

I think you need to learn more about cars and engines in general before you do anything to your car.

Night_blade897

that is why i am asking questions, is it not?

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

That was really, really uncalled for. The guy stated that he was only 17, give him a break. Not everyone grew up around a drag strip, or machine shop. The typical person does not know the difference between a OHV and OHC.

Instead of telling him what he needs to do before he does anything to his car, why don't YOU take the time to teach him something, instead of showing blatant ignorance to the subject at hand. That would be a good start.

Night_blade897

yes thankyou lol.
and no i dont really know the difference between ohv and ohc, other then the one has valves and other has a cam, i think lol.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

You're welcome. I just can't stand when people try to appear to high and mighty on here. In the end, over half of the owners of Third Gens are teenagers, just starting out in the 'Hot Rod World' if you may.

Here's a simple diagram comparing the differences of OHC and OHV valvetrains. It's really simple to understand once you see a picture of the differences. Basically, it's just a different camshaft location. The advantage of nearly stock engines with OHC style valvetrains is that they have the ability to be multivalve engines, hence, flow better. Yet, with aftermarket heads, any OHV style engine can keep up.

Night_blade897

oh dang. that works lol

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

By the way, if you decide to go for a higher powered naturally aspirated engine, don't bother with stock GM parts. If you go and visit Dart's site, they have SBC Iron Eagle Heads that come with a nice and tiny 49 CC chamber, that will most likely give you a small bump in compression, and power alike.

64 CC chambers would work well, too. As for camshafts, just check out a few of the Comp Cams. There's no gain in sticking to stock GM parts in that area, either.

http://www.dartheads.com/products/cy...num-heads.html

Their heads are decently priced, but if you think about the cost effectiveness, it is not worth it to buy Dart heads for a 305. Which is why I recommended a cheaper eBay turbo kit, that would most likely be a nice bolt on 50 Horsepower.

Yet, if you insist on getting decent power out of a 305, Comp Cams has good stuff for you. Their Xtreme Energy XR264HR camshaft would be a very good compromise between driveability, and power.

There's also a way better idea, but it seems like you do not want to swap engines. CM Engines offers a 325 Horsepower rebuilt 350, with OEM Iron heads, 9.0:1 compression, but it is a 2 bolt main. 4 bolt mains are pretty desireable when it comes to big power, but since you only want a small bump in power, that engine would be perfect. Considering it is only $2,996.

http://www.cmengines.com/Engines/Per...3/Default.aspx

You basically have unlimited options. The choice comes down to what you would prefer, and what fits your wallet. I still really think that an eBay turbo kit would be by far, your best bet. You could maintain all of your stock engine components, run very low boost, and get a decent bump in power.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-...Q5fAccessories

That is a Twin Turbo kit, for 82-92 SBC 305's. It's capable of 450+ Horsepower. When the time comes for upgrading your fuel system, heads, and engine internals, you would have the capability of having one of the highest powered 305 Third Gens.

Night_blade897

hey thanks, ill take a look at those.

like i said, i heard that the rs had a cr*ppy cam and heads which rob all the power.
so thats why i wanna swap it out, but if you say i wont get much from stock z28s then ill take a gander at Dart heads and comp cams.

i mean i could get basicly any stock part from basicly any car from pull-a-part, which is a junkyard, you can get tranys for 50$, so i dont need to spend much, but if i want more power go for the aftermarket.

the way i see it, i spent 500 on this, and im willing to spend more to make it better.
like if i put 2000 in it i could say its a 2500$ car, or 3000, itll be a 3500$ car ect. lol

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

Of course you could go to the junkyard to buy parts, but I wouldn't trust a junkyard transmission or anything of that nature, basically only body parts.

Check out my Louver and plastics restoration thread. I'm basically making all of my plastics look brand new for under twenty dollars. I bought a used louver for 10 dollars, and Dupli-Color trim paint for only 6. I figure I can skimp on minor exterior parts, to balance out the cost of what a decent paint job will be.

If you want to get fancy under the hood, my thread will help you out. You can paint your intake runners and manifold in black trim paint, to get that whole 'murdered out' look. I like doing small budget side projects, anything to save cash is great. Next I'll probably be doing the plastic radiator mount. Who knows what then, painting is kind of fun. LOL.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...storation.html

Night_blade897

ok ill take a look at it lol.
tho when it comes to painting to body, ive acctualy painted 2 other cars, and for my rs i was gona go for a two tone black and white with a red pin stripe for contrast. i was gona go with red and black but red paint it like 200 a gallon.

for the interior im gona do redo it all with fiberglass, but not like the ones you see on tv with 20 monitors, and speakers everywhere, im gona keep it plain simple, and im gona put a microsoft zune dock in it because no one does that.

but when you talk about the intake runners, i dont have any of those, ill try and post pics of under my hood for ya.

but yea im gona go take a look at that right now. thanks

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

How good are you with fiberglass? I've been looking for someone that can make a custom console cover, since I pulled out my radio. I'm going to need different console plastics anyway, for when I ever get the money to swap in a T-56.

I have a Zune too. I was thinking about doing some custom wiring, and making a Zune dock for a car radio out of the house Zune dock, but decided against it. My speakers actually weighed a lot, over 15 pounds for all 4 of them, it was a nice bit of weight savings.

Night_blade897

Oh hey if anyone wants to veiw pics of my camaro, here are some of the starting pics,
they are on myspace, but its because forsome reason they wouldnt post on here :l
you should be able to veiw them cause i changed those albums to public, and i even changed my picture privacy to public. so they should work, if not let me know.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=18649951

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=18649953

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=18649954

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=18649955

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=18649957

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=18649960


i like the yellow but im not gona keep it cause it wouldnt match the look of my car.



and heres a pic i drew of my plan. (my scanner broke so i took a pic with my camra lol)

first..
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=17039512


edited.. (bad lighting)
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=19316485

the glare on the rim is the lamp reflecting on the pencil led. lol.

Night_blade897

to be honest with you i havent done any fiberglass work yet, but ive been reading about it, but as soon as i get some fiberglass and resins im gona start expirimenting on little projects and when i think im ready im gona make a few subwoofer boxes. then im gona work on my car lol.

how custom do you want it anyway? i mean, from what i understand its just a rectangular piece that you can place there. unless you wanna do something nice. like you could get a piece of, i guess youd call it "cloudy?" plexy glass, you know, its that 100% transparent. but anyway. get some of that, get a chevy emblem, or whatever you want, put something like a stencil on it, and paint it, so that just the emblem shows, then backlight it with LEDs, that would look sick =] lol

dude i was gona do the same thing, i was gona strip a zune home av dock, and hook it to the input in my radio, and posibly a 7" monitor, and play it that way. ive drawn up some designs. but my only problem, is that i need to find some sort of puddy thats like bondo, you know, something that hardens to a plasicish substance, but doesnt have to be as tough or think.
something that i can use on smaller projects.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

I've never done anything with fiberglass, but I'm going to have to learn. My front bumper has a rather small, 2 inch crack on it, near the headlight bucket. It's nothing too extreme, so it should be a good start for me, a nice project to experiement with.

As far as a dash, I want something very simple. An opening for the stock heat and A/C controls, and an opening for a manual shifter. Other than that, just a piece of flat fiberglass. That would be pretty useful, incase I ever decide to go turbo. I'd be able to just cut out a small spot for a boost controller, so it has a nice integrated look.

There's just so much to do, body wise. I'm trying to get experienced with paint and fiberglass so I can do prep work myself, and not have a professional body guy charge me well over $2,000 when the time comes for a new paint job. I still have more work to do on my hood louvers. They have the plastic screws, and a few of the plastic screws broke off of the back, of both louvers. I need to find a place that sells that extremely strong glue, called JB Weld, and glue on the plastic screws from the spare cracked louver that I have.

///DAN///

iTrader: (1)

A good start is always exhaust and headers they are real restrictive heads are also a big gain as well as a cam just make sure you match them up right , if it's gonna be a street car you don't wanna go too big on the cam .As for turbo and superchargers it can be done on a 305 if thats the way you wanna go but just putting one on your stock motor prob won't give you the gains that they would on a engine built for a turbo or supercharger. Good luck

Night_blade897

Well tell you the truth, fiberglass isnt that hard to work with, but u just gotta know what your doing, do what i did, and watch videos on youtube on how to make subwoofer boxes, and you can pic of resins and fiberglass (chopped glass is best if you have a good base) at your local audo parts store probably.

here im gona step you through what you need lol.

basicly, you can make a wooden skelleton, and wrapp it with a cotton meterial (like a shirt) then stapple that down. then you should soak the shirt in resin, (im not sure if you gotta wait for it to dry, or do it when its almost dry to move on to the next step) then you mix your resin and chopped glass and lay it on like paper mashai? (im not so good at spelling lol.) then when you put on 2 or three layers of fiberglass you should sand it down till theres not so many glass shards sticking out, then layer it with bondo, then sand the bondo down, then prime, and paint =]

ohhh you want the whole dash board. hmmmmm, idk cz i was gona stay away from my dash cause im afraid of messing it up too much, i was add to it and change a big on it but i wanna keep the dash mainly stock, but i might change the guadge essembly or whatever its called lol.
but i like your idea. its cool

and when it comes to painting, its not that hard, its mainly in the prep. i painted my dads van (you can see on my myspace pictures in other albums if you look.) and my grandpas car which i did for 700$ saved him alot of money.
and yea would would cost alot to have a pro paint your car, and if you want something custom then your looking at 2-2.5grand.

it takes alot of work, but its all worth it in the end =]

kevmann

I know we are getting a little off topic but you used to be able to buy JB weld at Wal MArt. I believe Pep Boys or any of the auto stores would have it. And for your bumper you use another material besides fiberglass. Then you drill holes on each side of the crack and fill it. There are a few really good posts on here about filling the cracks in bumpers.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

I know the basics of it, just from learning over time, and reading bits on it, but that's basically nothing at all when it comes to real world experience. I don't think a whole console would really be that hard to do. Remember, I have the original console to use as a mold.

Luckily for me, the whole console is held in with basically only 2 screws, which are in the console storage box, whichever you'd call it. It would be very simple, but for something like that I'd rather get a hold of a pro.

Night_blade897

lol yea we did get off topic but thats a good idea, what i fould do is put a patch on the backside of the bumper and hollow out the crack just a tiny bit (probably 1/8"-1/4" then fill it with bondo, thats what i do. lol

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

I think we're still on topic, in general. Look at it this way, by talking about fixing a crack, it improves aerodynamics, and would make my IROC faster!

Night_blade897

well thats good, i learned everything i know from youtube and google lol. you'll get there soon enough.

oh hey i have a question thas off this subject but back on the topic of this fourm.

i really want to swap my tbi for a tpi, would you think that i could simply get a tpi from the junkyard, if so what would i need? i know id need the intake mannifold, and the injectors, would i need a new computer? im sure i would. id really rather have a tpi cz i know i could posibly get a "ramair" intake for it, unlike for a Throttle body id need to get a carb intake.

Night_blade897

hahahaha nice xD

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

You're better off saving the money, and keeping TBI. Instead of changing the F.I. system, you can always change an intake around, it's a far less expensive route, that'll be just as effective.

Check this out, it's a carburetor style cold air intake, that would work on TBI. You could make one yourself out of some typical hosing that you can pick up at Home Depot, or buy a kit yourself. There's a few people out there that make carb style CAI's, but I'd have to find one.

If you're set on wanting ram air, you could always get a VaraRam Tri Power kit from VaraRam industries, and route it to the TBI intake with a hose.

Night_blade897

ahh . but IF i decide to go after the tpi conversion and ignor everything you say would would i need to do? cause i really wanna see all my options.

also arnt tpis alittle bit more eficient?

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

TPI's may be more efficient, but in the end, they're both stock F.I. systems. Neither really has a huge advantage over the other. I'm not too sure about a fuel injection conversaion, or simply a swap from one to the other.

I know basically what you know, I found a page that'll help you out though.

http://sethirdgen.org/tpi1.htm

Seems like it has tons of detailed information about a TPI swap.

Night_blade897

thanks

ericjon262

I didn't grow up anywhere near a dragstip, the nearest is over an hour away, and I've been to it twice, btw, it's not even a full 1/4 mile track, it's 1/8 mile. I've been in a real machine shop twice. what I know, I know because I have researched, and I've gotten my hands dirty. if something breaks on my car, I dive in and find out whats wrong and learn to fix it. before I started working on cars, I fixed bicycles, then mowers and go carts, and finally progressed to cars.

honestly, I think it's horrible advie to tell someone who doesn't even know almost every SBC is OHV, (Except LT5 and Moser DOHC conversions) to go out and spend $800 on a set of heads. esp when the valves would be hugging the cylinder wall, 2.02's are not a good valve for a 305, you lose airflow because it's too close to the cylinder wall and air can't flow around it. your starting point for a street car should always be to optimize what you already have, through thorough tuning and repair, then start with bolt ons, then work your way towards engine internals.

Your car is TBI as it sits, you can make plenty of power on TBI, you just have to ditch the stock ECM, EBL is the first thing that came to my mind, but there are many other options.

www.dynamicefi.com

the TBI PCM swap is considered fairly good by many who run TBI.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...rting-tbi.html

and Then you would need to update the throttle body see

https://www.thirdgen.org/ultimatetbi

and

https://www.thirdgen.org/ultimatetbi2

and

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ack-times.html

and

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/


Swirl port heads can be alright for a street motor, the promot low and mid range torque, but you need to match your cam to the heads very closely, I would recommend a cam that peaks around 4500 RPM's

More info on swirl ports here.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...-headflow.html

TBI exhaust manifolds suck, you would benifit quite a bit from a good set of headers (preferably the TPI spec headers), and a cat back.

a TBI motor will be just as efficient if not more than TPI motor assuming comparable components and comparable tuning. TPI's run out of breath @ about 4500 rpms because of the long bent runners, TBi's also run out of breath at about 4500, but because of the port design, not the intake. a tpi intake on top of tbi heads would be a torque monster esp with an "RV" cam. making power is about component matching, not not throwing speed parts at something til your broke.

if you want a cold air intake, and improve the looks of your car, get a cowl induction hood, the goodmark steel hood has a cutout on the underside of the hood for your air cleaner to mate too so it draws air from the base of the windshield.

see

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...induction.html

but don't forget that you will still need to make the car stop too, having power is fun, but it's stupid if you don't upgrade the brakes driveline and suspension.

Would a Mod please move this thread to: Tech/general engine

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

You think that's horrible? Yeah, well I do too. Do you know why? Cost effectiveness. If you would take the time to read my posts, I'm just giving him a list of his options.

Why would you tell him to try to optimize a 305, and start on bolts ons, for a 305? So, you want him to spend $1,000's in parts that are not widely produced, to net him a whole 25 Horsepower?

That's BS. My suggestion to him was to pick up an eBay turbo, run low boost so that his stock fuel system and injectors could keep up, and he would get a decent 50+ Horsepower, most likely on less than 6 PSI.

If you upgrade the injectors, you'll want to upgrade the throttle body. If you upgrade the throttle body, you'll want to upgrade the manifold. If you upgrade the manifold, you'll want to upgrade the camshaft, to make them previous modifications worth while, and to actually take advantage of the extra air flow. Now if he goes along with your little bolt on's idea, he will have more of a radical idle'd street engine, that may be producing more than 300 Horsepower with the correct cam, and bolt ons.

Where will that leave him? That will leave him with internals that can barely withstand even that 300 Horsepower. 305's are an incredibly weak engine in stock form. By the time he gets done searching down $1,000's in bolt on parts for a 305, that are barely produced anymore, he will end up having to upgrade the transmission right away, to withstand the extra bit of power. Then, the rear end, then eventually a driveshaft.

Now tell me, why would he do all of that, when he can spend $1,099 or so on a bolt on Turbo system, and have an engine with two personalities? When he wants to tool around town, he can take advantage of a boost controller, and go down to 1-2 PSI, just enough to make decent power. When he wants to beat on the car a little, have some fun, run 6-8 PSI.

Tell me, which will be more cost effective in the long run? Spending thousands of dollars on parts alone, not to mention labor, on a 305. OR, mildly upgrading a 305 with a cheap turbo kit, so in the mean time, he could save up for a 350, or 400 SBC? Maybe even convert to BBC if he so wishes.

Once you get heavily involved with bolt on parts, that means expensive time on dynos, just to get a decently running daily driver.

He clearly explained, he wants a good daily driver car, that has some decent bragging rights. A cammed 305, whoopdeee. How about a Twin Turbo 305, that comes with good driveablity, that can take advantage of a stock camshaft, and still make good power. That is a pretty decent bragging right, to be cruising around in a Twin Turbo Camaro.

Think gas mileage wise, too. Combined with even a cheap turbocharger, he most likely would find that he gets a small bump in gas mileage. That adds to good driveability.

You just do not make sense. Who's going to spend most likely up to $2,000 combined, with induction bolt ons, an aftermarket camshaft, computer modifications, dyno time. When on the other side, he can spend that $1,000, literally bolt on a turbo system by himself, probably in two days or less, and be happy with about 220-230 Horsepower.

That also puts a lot of money aside for brake upgrades, rear differential upgrades, possibly a stronger driveshaft, aftermarket transmission. Then he would be all set up for when the time comes for a larger engine, or more power.

Think about it.

ericjon262

First off, a SBC is a SBC is a SBC, headers and intakes for a 305 fit a 350, a 1 5/8 primary tube header won't hurt a 305 or kill power on a 350. Same for the intakes, it doesn't matter.

where are you getting radical idle from?? I told him to pick a cam that peaks by 4500 rpms to match the swirl port heads.

the motor that Fast355 built that I linked him to was just to show that power is possible with tbi.

twin turbo 305 with stock internals??????

not even a cam??? are you joking? the stock 305 tbi cam is probably the smallest cam GM has ever produced! ya, the turbo's will help, but why bother for 220 hp? I can get that N/a with a 350 and swirl ports! a turbo kit on an L03 would be all show no go.

aftermarket cam? I mention a cam swap, but I don't think I said aftermarket in my entire post, what about the LT1 cam or the L98 cam or a used LT4 cam? an LO3 unless swapped from a truck would have a roller cam factory, so any factory roller cam can be swapped in, and any new or used aftermarket hyd roller cam.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...-ultimate.html

Ebay and craigslist all the time, $50.

Computer modding? plenty of guys tune their own computers Using Rbob's EBL and WIN ALDL. in fact, the ECM would be the most expensive part of the build, and you forget to mention that the Twin turbos would require a TON of TUNING too!

As for throttle bodies, I have two of them in my garage, with all of the ultimate mods, and even polished up kinda nice that I'd sell him for $50 a pop, then I've got a 454 TBI I'd sell him for a little more.

305's incredibly weak? where are you from? I've only been able to blow one up,( I've had 4) and all of mine have had over 150000 miles on them, hell, my K5 blazer's 305 had 210000 on it when I sold it and it was running strong, headers intake carb full exhaust, I was going to put a cam in it, but I decided I wanted a camaro so I sold it. hell, the small bore would make the pistons stronger than a comparable 350 piston because the wrist pin supports more of it.

bragging rights OK, a turbo 305 making 220 hp WOW, 220hp with twins, thats something to brag about!!

Night_blade897

i agree, please would a mod move it? i didnt know what i was doing

Night_blade897

ok im interested with your guy's argument.
but heres the part i come in to stop it.

yes i want a car with braggable HP, turbo kit? sure. but also if im going to do anything i should really swap out the heads and cams just because like you said the tbi 305 cam was the weakest gm ever made, tho i dont want a super performance cam, i just want something better then i have lol. i mean is it that hard? if theres more about swapping the cam with a tpi 305 cam please tell me what im doing wrong because im completely lost if so.
also, im thinking about leaving my tbi.
i wanna try and get my car to 200HP WITHOUT my exhaust and intake mods, or even turbos(which are both technically lol).

you guys get where im comming from?



better cam


better heads


thats what i need and the tpi has it >.<
and theres a 1991 305 camaro z28 at pull-a-part right now, but they only keep their cars for 3 months. then they crush them. and i could get basicly anything from that car, the heads, the cam, even everything for a full tbi to tpi conversion (after reading up on it). but you guys need to tell me if i can use z28 cams or not. cz i really dont wanna get a new cam, but im gona get new heads for it. hopefull id get more then 30hp when im done.



so basicly if you guys havent realized everything ive been saying, I basicly want the power of a 305 z28 and you guys are going to help me get there, (hopefully all i need is a cam, and heads, and even the tpi but that can wait)






also, are the valves in the heads or the block?

ericjon262

the valves are in the heads.

IMO exhaust should be your second mod, only second to a new ecm, or at least learning to tune the current ecm.

I think you should be able to get to 200 FWHP with an LT1 cam, intake, exhaust and a tune.

you can use any SBC hyd roller designed for a factory hyd roller cam and put it in. there is less wiring invloved if you keep it TBI, but if everything's there and thats what you want, then go for it. you can make 200 hp on either system no problem.

It's not hard to swap a cam, unless the engine is still in the car, then you run out of room real quick.

///DAN///

iTrader: (1)

I know you wanna do a cam swap I personally would not use a junkyard used cam out of a stock Z28 for 1 it's used 2 you can get a brand new cam from summit from as low as 100 . Having said that you can do all the mods you want to the motor it's self but the biggest gains your gonna get and are the easiest is headers being the hardest then exhaust and a ecm tune . A different route you can go is get a 350 from the junkyard freshin it up throw it in and get a ecm out of a 350 TBI car.I have a 305 that i want faster too but it's cheaper to build a more common motor like a 350 .

ericjon262

If his car was a pre '87 car with a flat tappet cam, I would agree 110%, but his car is a '92 which came factory with a hydraulic roller cam, hydrualic rollers don't wear like a flat tappets do, if it was me though, I would go with the LT1 cam over an LB9 cam, it'll make more power, and it'll take the same amount of work to do. and There is one Roller cam on summit for $120 but it's not computer control compatible. if he got one of the $100 flat tappets, then you have to factor in the break in of the cam which if done improperly can ruin a brand new cam, with roller cams, there is still a break in involved, but only with cast core cams, and it's much less finicky.

///DAN///

iTrader: (1)

I wasn't looking into particulars as I stated they start at 100 bucks and after looking at particulars in summit they have listed a trick flow cam made just for 87-95 factory roller blocks for 249$ , having said that to show you I'm not just throwing numbers at the kid I was just trying to show that for not much more money you could get a new cam because in my OPINION I would not reuse a cam that had a good amount of miles on it especially if it came out of a motor you don't know how it was treated or maintained .

Night_blade897

thanks, i was hopping i could get 200 without intake and exhaust mods but heck, ill be happy with something better.

and im gona pull the engine this weekend because i have alot of work to do on the firewall (cancer spots)

Night_blade897

ok i understand you both, and thanks.

ok i keep bringing up getting one from the junkyard for money reasons but if it wouldnt kill my mpg or my wallet then heck id go for a new cam.
but whats a good number durration should i look at?

Night_blade897

just give some more info on a few more things please,

the lt1 cam is one from a corvette is it not?
and would that be a flat tappet or a hydraulic roller?

and when you say that the one on summit isnt computer controllable, that means i cant use it? and what do you mean by id have to factor in the break in?

///DAN///

iTrader: (1)

stay with the roller , they had the LT1 in vette's and camaros . there ia a couple articles online from I think super chevy and chevy high performance that have good buildups of a 305 just google 305 engine builds and you should find the articles ,if you go too crazy with the lift and duration of the cam you start loosind streetability , you don't want something too lumpy for the street and you also wanna keep your RPM's reasonable . you can call comp cam's or any of the other guy's and give them what you have and they can tell you what would work best for what you wanna do with it . good luck and have fun with it .

Night_blade897

oh thanks. dude.

Heres what i think im going to do...

Im gona pull the engine,

get headers for it,

get a Y pipe. (would i need a new converter too?)

if so then one of those

i already have an H pipe magnaflow catback (3"),

...now or later..

get a new cam

and get new heads.

I know the 350 block is the same as the 305, so i was wondering, say i wanted to get a 350 in the farrr future. could i use the heads i buy for the 305 on a 350 block?, im sure the valves would be much smaller but it was a thought lol.

///DAN///

iTrader: (1)

yeah the heads will bolt right up to a 350 , there are two things to look out for in buying heads a 305 has a small bore so make sure you don't get head that the valves are going to hit the block (it can be clearenced if needed ) and make sure it has the right bolt holes for your accessories they chanced in the mid 80's when they went from v belt to serpentine . If you could get a hold of a copy of Desk Top Dyno (I know it's not 100% accurate ) you can throw some ideas on your motor there and see what it would do . Like I said it's not 100% accurate but it can give you a ballpark idea of your gains or losses when adding stuff.