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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
I bought a brand new 1989 Formula 350 (black with t-tops) when I graduated high school. I got married 20 years ago (tomorrow). I drove the car to our honeymoon and on the way back it overheated. A new thermostat took care of the problem or so I thought. A few weeks later I began noticing it was using antifreeze. I think it may have blew a head gasket or intake gasket and it got worse. Antifreeze pretty much would go straight threw the exhaust. Me being without funds to repair it (and not having the heart to get rid of it)... covered and parked it in my dads garage with 30,000 miles on the odometer. I used to start it a couple times a year but the last 5 its just been setting. Raising three kids and all the ball games, school functions, vacations, etc., etc. has kept me busy over the years but now the kids are graduating from high school way to fast and don't really have as much time to spend with dear old dad as they used to.
I was looking at the car the other night and thinking back 20 years ago to all the good times I had in the that car during the 30,000 miles of its life. Its still in great condition other than a few boxes that were stacked up to high and fell on it (thanks mom). lol I'll never sell the car because I thought the car looked cool as h3ll when I go it and still think so today.
Don't bash on me too much for parking it. I did what I needed to do at that time in my life... I am happy I have been able to keep it over the years... even if it is broke and setting in a building. lol
Anyway... I now do have some funds to spend towards it. Whats the best thing to do with the motor? Is it ruined because I've let it set so long? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Get it out and disassemble it, the block may need a hone, it may need an overbore, or it may need to be replaced.
That part wont cost much, aside from that you'll probably need to replace every piece of rubber hose, possibly the fuel pump and sending unit as well as clean out the gas tank, and the tires.
Who knows if the transmission will still work after that long, i'd just try to get the car to start, if you can get it to, then see if it drives through all the gears, if it does, rebuild the engine, if not rebuild both.
Transmission was good 5 years ago because I ran it up and down the road at my house. Everything functioned as it should then but then again that was 5 years ago.
I've helped my brothers put long blocks and crate engines in several cars over the years. If I decide to take on the project they will surely help me.
We never did any work inside the engines so I would probably need to take it somewhere if I have to pull the engine out. If I don't have to pull the engine out that would be better.
If the car starts up and shifts okay... whats the best way to find out why the car is using up so much antifreeze?
honestly what i would do is change the oil. charge up a battery and fire it up see if it will start then check to see if it will drive. if so then tackle the original problem weather it be a leaky thermostat housing which it could be or as you thought head gasket. with 30000 on the motor you should be fine. My motor in my 91 had not been started in 10 years and it runs fine now. that is the first step that will tell you what else you need to do
honestly what i would do is change the oil. charge up a battery and fire it up see if it will start then check to see if it will drive. if so then tackle the original problem weather it be a leaky thermostat housing which it could be or as you thought head gasket. with 30000 on the motor you should be fine. My motor in my 91 had not been started in 10 years and it runs fine now. that is the first step that will tell you what else you need to do
I agree get that beast running. Transmission will be fine, the seals might start getting leaky.
MuscleCar Review is running a series right now (started this month) about how to fire up a barn find car......
having bought a car that sat for 6 years, I can only say that the biggest worry is the fuel system. Gasoline does not like to sit around. On my car, once I replaced the entire fuel system (pump to injectors), the car runs great...
The rest of the engine tends to hibernate pretty well.....especially since you have started the engine here and there.
With a blown head gasket I would pull the heads, take them to a machine shop and have them tested for warping. If they're warped, have them repaired and then, if you know how to do it, check the decks for straightness. You basically just put a straight edge on the deck at several angles and try to fit a feeler gauge between the deck and the straight edge. If it's good, then you're golden, get new head gaskets for it, and put the heads back on and remember to tighten in sequence!! Flush the oil and do a full coolant flush to get out all the old stuff, flush your brake fluid, and your transmission fluid, power steering fluid, and even your differential fluid. It may only have 30,000 miles on it, but you are better off changing fluids after sitting for so long, I don't care what anybody says. Don't take any unnecessary risks; In for a penny, in for a pound!
If the decks are warped, then you have to pull the motor, and strip it down, and schedule an appointment with the machine shop again. Have them mic out the cylinders and check it for cracks and stress, have them shave the decks, hone the cylinders, clean the oil galleys and the coolant jackets thoroughly. At this point, you can make some very big decisions... you can either put it back together stock, or make some changes. That's all up to you there.
Biggest thing though: DO NOT RUN IT IF THE HEAD GASKET IS BLOWN! If you absolutely have to turn the engine over, do it by hand! Heat is the absolute worst thing for your engine and you will overheat before you know it with a blown head gasket if the engine is running.
Don't mess around, do it right! We're here if you have questions
(BTW I didn't cringe when I read your story... there are worse things than a blown head gasket... try a blown rear main seal... which by the way, sitting for so long you may want to keep an eye on that too!! ALL of your seals warrant close attention!!)
Last edited by DonutGuard; 09-12-2012 at 03:01 PM.
I would get a fresh battery and see if it will run still. You may need some fresh gas. If so very quickly check and see if tranny will shift. If so then shut it down and when it cools off do a compression check of all cylinders. Note which if any are real low. Now you can decide what to do. If low pressures are only on one side then You could just pull that one head and check that side closely.
I always check the Head Gasket closely to see if I can see where the problem occured for reference. Check the head and block deck for straightness as said above. The results from this will help you decide what you need to do.
After it is repaired make sure to change out all the fluids. Oil, antifreeze, tranny fluids and fuel. Check brakes closely for leaks or problems etc.
I would agree with erik. The biggest potential problem will be fuel. Any fuel you have remaining in the tank will be about as volatile as a lump of coal. Drain or siphon all you can, then add about 5 gallons of the lowest octane fuel you can find. Lower octane fuel is actually more volatile, so it can help dissolve varnish and deposits. If would be very tempting to add a few ounces of 2 cycle oil to the fuel to help the fuel pump and injectors. I do this every year for off-season storage and have NEVER had a problem with it since.
Clean the battery connections and use a fully charged, good capacity battery. The battery that is in it is probably so filled with precipitated metal that it will never take nor hold any charge.
Another concern is the brakes - They could very well be stuck. They certainly will be rusted unless you applied rust preventive to the rotors when it was stored. You'll want to change the brake fluid eventually, since it may have picked up atmospheric water during storage.
You will need to change oil and filter once it's been run. If there is any sign of coolant or moisture in the oil now, change it with low-buck mineral oil before starting and plan on changing it again after some running time. You'll eventually need to change the transmission oil. The rear axle oil will need a change if it wasn't done before storage. Any fluid which is due for service (based on time, not mileage) will need attention, so plan on a cooling system flush and refill.
Unless you have trouble with the injectors, normal fuel flow through them should be adequate to clean them, but the fuel filter may need to be changed,m possibly even more than once.
Inspect the intake tract for uninvited guests, and plan on a new air filter unless you sealed the intake openings when you stored it.
If you fogged the cylinder for storage, you should be O.K. If not, you may want to pull the plugs and introduce a little 2-cycle oil to each cylinder, the crank the engine several times with the plugs removed to distribute the oil.
If the engine has used synthetic, the seals should be good. If it had mineral oil, you may have dried seals and the subsequent leaks. So long as a seal is not mechanically damaged, you can switch to synthetic to soften the seals again.
Inflate the tires to their maximum allowable pressure before driving it. Don't be surprised if they have some significant flat-spotting, but that may go away with use time, temperature, and inflation.
I'm guessing you'll find more once you start driving it, such as why it started leaking coolant in the first place. Just for giggles, place a shallow cake pan or similar receptacle in the passenger side front footwell before running it up to temperature or driving it. You may find it saves your carpet from the potential coolant loss from the heater core.
If it were my car... Since you have a known coolant loss problem, and the engine has not run in 5 years, I would pull the engine and send it to a good machine shop. You probably have a blown head gasket, and the heads/block may need some machine work. Make sure that they agree/understand that it is a 30K mile engine, and that if it does not need a total rebuild, don't do it. Just repair/replace what is needed to make it right again. New seals will be a good idea no matter where the coolant loss problem is. Of course, I don't have the tools, time or expertise to build an engine, but like you I have installed short-blocks over the years. If you do have the expertise and the tools, then go for it. As others have said, fuel is going to be your big problem. I'll bet the fuel system is a big mess. You may want to consider a replacment fuel tank? Otherwise, remove the tank, and have it boiled out so that nothing is left inside before you put fresh fuel in it. As for the rest of the car, it should be OK with fluids flushed and changed. My 86 had 25K miles on it when I bought it in 2005. It had been parked for three years in a basement. Lucky for me the original owner ran it out of gas on purpose, so the system was bone dry. We changed and serviced everything before we tried to start the car for the first time. Seven years later, the car has 29K miles on it, and runs like brand new. Nothing leaks, and the car is fully ready for the road. The transmission had never been serviced, and neither had the diff. Both are working great now. I just bought an 82 with 24K miles on it. The diff has the original lube in it, and will be serviced very soon. That's my 2 cents...
Charles
At the very least, pull the spark plugs, disable the ignition and do a compression test on all of your cylinders, record your results and post them here. That will give us an idea of what condition your engine is in. If it has a blown head gasket, or anything else.
If it were me, I would focus on the original issue first.
If you are comfortable with troubleshooting it yourself have at it! These cars aren't that complicated.
If not, simply take it to a good mechanic.
Once the issue is defined you could go from there.
For instance if you find a head is warped you could repair it, or use this as an oppurtunity to buy new/better heads!
Thanks for all the input guys. I will be posting more on here as I work on the car. Right now my wife's Envoy has decided it needs several new sensors and the instrument cluster had gone totally crazy. Got to fix one broke down vehicle at a time. lol I will be back in touch soon!
Thanks Again!,
Kirk
I have the same situation with an 84 5.0 Z28. It's been in mom's garage for like 20 some years. once I get this vette that that I'm working on just a little more kick. I was debating on taking the old Z and freshening it up. 383, maybe an ls transplant... so many possibilities. then I think of all the good times I had in it, ( this was my high school car), I just think it might be better to just leave it as is. the interior is immaculate. it's been in mom's garage forever the paint is perfect. the engine however has not been started probably 20 years. it's a tough choice. I don't think any car makes memories like a Z 28. I'll probably just go back to stock.
Last edited by testiculese; 09-19-2012 at 10:50 AM.
Reason: bad text to speech phone
I finally got around with messing with this car.lol I put a new battery(Advance Auto Gold - $125) in it yesterday. Fuel pump bad. Removed fuel pump(what a pain in the butt) and getting ready to order a new one tomorrow. Been looking at parts. Probably Bosch fuel pump, strainer and filter. Also ordering head gasket kit, new head bolts, plugs, wires, etc. I'm also going to put a cat back exhaust system on it since my intermediate pipe had some rust holes in it and I beat the crap out of my muffler taking it off. haha Any suggestions on a cat back system? Looks like the Dynomax super turbo is a good deal but how does it sound compared to stock? I always felt the stock muffler was a little to quite. Also suggestions on plugs and wires. The engine is 100% stock and I have no plans to change that. Ohhh... also the gas tank is grungy. Whats the best process to clean the gas tank?
I read your 1st post and last post in this thread. Glad you was able to keep the car (nice looking car BTW).
If it's had fuel sitting in it, you will need a new pickup/sender, pump, strainer, and a good bit of the rubber lines.
May even need to clean or replace the fuel tank. (I just went through this on a S10 that sat for about 8 years)
If the engine had oil in it, you will be surprised at how good they keep over the years.
I would squirt some marvel mystery oil in each cylinder and let it sit over night before trying to turn engine over. This will insure any rings that are stuck loosen up.
Drain all old oil and do a full oil change.
Pull the dist. out and use an oil prime tool and drill to pre oil the engine.
Your missing coolant and coolant out the exhaust sounds like a blown head gasket.
My guess is the T stat stuck closed, it overheated and blew a head gasket.
New head bolts are not needed in gen 1 sbc engines when replacing head gasket.
I like the dynomax super turbo but it's a real mellow tone, just a little louder than stock.
My '91 formula has a flowmaster cat back system on it and most loves the way it sounds but it's too loud and too much drone for me.
I use dynomax ultra flos on my custom dual exhaust system on my '88 camaro.
Awesome response. I'm gonna try to clean up the pickup unit today. If I can't clean it up I will order a new one. I think there is someone local who will clean and reseal the gas tank. Will see what kind of quote he throws at me. It may just as cheap to buy a new tank.
I see where dynomax has a ultra flo ss polished muffler to fit this car. Not sure if its any louder than the turbo muffler or not.
Well... I tried cleaning the sending unit. I think its best to purchase another and a new gas tank. I don't really want to have to do this job again. I have a problem though. "FEU" is on my harness tag. Everywhere I look for sending units I see "FPH" or "FPJ" as the wiring harness listed. I'm having no luck finding the correct one. Any ideas?
I think those codes are for the type of fuel pump on the sending unit.
1st off, I'm a huge fan of the 89-92 formula 350s..
You are very lucky to have held on to the car, it looks outstanding! (I have one of the 89s like yours)
a common failure on these was the pass rear intake gasket. (It took out the original motor in mine)
I just went through all of this with my, sitting for atleast 10yrs, 89 formula 350 asc vert
( https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...ula-350-a.html )
As far as the fuel tank and sending unit, make sure its not rusty and the sending unit still works, then just replace the pump with w a racetronix pump.
If the tank is rusty, look for a nice clean tank from any 92 F-body, it will have the 1LE baffles/tub that yours may or may not have. The aftermarket tanks don't have the updated baffles and can be a issue during cornering w low fuel.
If you need anything at all, don't hesitate to PM me.
I've overheated the 1988 engine in my DD a couple times.
The SBC is a solid SOB when it comes to head gaskets.
So do the oil change, the spray in the cylinders, get it running and drive it. Note any thing that *needs* done.
Then find the coolant leak. You didn't drive it much and for all we know you saw condensation coming out of the exhaust. So put dye in the coolant, get a UV light and the glasses and see if it's leaking anywhere. Fix that. Compression test it too.
If you're not modifying anything, then don't fix what ain't broke.
Well... if I can't figure out this sending unit problem is not gonna matter what I want to do next. I've looked on a bunch of sites and I seem the find every code but the one I need. I need harness code "FEU". The one I have looks terrible. But maybe I can somehow get it cleaned up if I have to... I just hate to take a chance on it.
Attached is a picture of kinda what I'm seeing everywhere I look. Anyone got any ideas?
Don't get to hung up on that sending unit code. You can purchase a new sending unit and put your own pump on it. Then just carefully transfer that decal to the new harness.
I emailed a local company that used to clean and reseal gas tanks to see if they still offer that service. I'm sure they will respond to my email by tomorrow.
Even tho its more expensive, id get the delco sending unit and you could run the delco pump.
The part numbers/codes get updated sometimes and that could just be the last code when it got updated.
The racetronix pumps i like because they come with everything needed for the install. Iike to use the upgraded harness on older high mile cars and race cars because it supplies better voltage to the fuel pump by using bigger wire. Very simple install too.
I'm ordering the racetronix pump and I'm going to make one more attempt to clean up the sending unit. Still waiting to hear about the gas tank clean and seal. The parts should be good if I can get all the gunk off of them. They only have 32,000 miles on them and have been setting covered in the garage all this time.lol I appreciate the input. Very much appreciated my 350 t-top brother.
Just run a ohm check on the sending unit to see if its working properly, i believe its 0-90 ohms
If its not rusty, you are miles ahead of the way mine was.
And fill out your info under the screen name so we know where ya are located !
Just wanted to say I know the car seems like it's a basket case, but from what you're describing this car is in great shape. Just a few minor issues to address and you're ready to roll.
Fuel pump has arrived. New gas tank and sending unit expected to be delivered today. If all goes well I'll hopefully have this part of the project done and can move on to the coolant usage problem. We'll see... one step at a time.
Great that you saved this car all those years! You'll have a really nice car when done and I'm sure you will enjoy it more than you did 20 some years ago. I know the "had kids, worked a lot, sent kids to college" routine and appreciate your enthusiasm to get it running. Good Luck, hope everything goes well and keep us updated!
Fuel pump, sending unit, filter, new rubber lines and tank installed. 8 gallons of gas added to tank.
Gas gauge not working. Car is still jacked way up in the air. Would this cause the gauge not to work?
Won't start. Purged new fuel through fuel rail. Pump is working. 45 psi on fuel pressure gauge at rail. Got spark. Runs on starting fluid. All fuses check out good. Appears fuel is not going through the injectors to cylinders. Any ideas?
I tried checking codes using the paper click trick. I could not get codes to flash. My brother has one of the old code readers lying around. If he can find it we will test it with that just to make sure I wasn't checking the wrong ports. I was checking A and B ports.
I tried two different keys just to make sure it wasn't a VATS issue with the key I was using.
I did not test ohm test on the new sending unit. But its easy enough to drop the tank again once we get it running.
Thinking the same thing on those injectors but I do want to make sure I can get codes to flash first. I see where south bay sells them. Not for sure which ones are the best ones to buy. Suggestions(I did get the Racetronix fuel pump if that makes any difference)? http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com/tpi-injectors/
I'm running out of money fast on this project. Pretty soon the cover is gonna go back over the car. lol
My car has very few miles and has all its original seals, hoses etc. I havent had a lick of problems with it. while rubber does not age well it is not always unusable. had the original tires on it and drove from cleveland to columbus with those on.. I had to get rid of them for safety and comfort
Ohm tested each injector and all of them check out fine. Just finished a noid test and all checks out fine as well. I think its time to pull the fuel rails this weekend and clean the injectors to see if they are plugged.
Only one injector clean and working. Even though ohm and noid tested fine... the other 7 are plugged up tight.lol 22 lb. Bosch injectors ordered and should arrive this week.
09-11-2012, 03:52 PM
